MFMP Seeks Crowd Input in Analyzing “Unexpected Results” in ECCO Fuel and Foil Spectrometry Data

A new post on the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project’s Steemit page provides results of testing on fuel and foil used in the ECCO reactor built by Indian researcher Suhas Ralkar. The MFMP is intending to go to India in the near future to test this reactor, but they already have been sent some samples for analysis.

We analysed the part processed fuel and foil that was supplied to us by Suhas Ralkar designed for use in the ECCO “free energy” reactor.

When analysing the reactor structure Ni foil and part processed fuel with EDX at Masaryk University, amongst other elements, in the foil we found unexpected Au, Ag, Pd and in the powder, Nb, Sn, Zr and a large quantity of Pb.

Foil production inputs
SS304 anode and cathode, de-ionised water (will absorb CO2 from air), nickel sulphate, electric discharge, 200V DC pluses at 300kHz and 300kHz and surface wave on SS304 substrate

Part-processed fuel inputs
SS304 container, de-ionised water (will absorb CO2 from air), Ti (80-100um), Ni (80-100um), C (5um), 4.5kW of 19.46kHz sound.

The full data can be found here: https://steemit.com/blog/@mfmp/ecco-analysis-of-reactor-and-fuel-components-showing-unexpected-elements

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
  • cashmemorz

    I have seen this in many chemical bonds where the properties of which are defines by the geometry of how constituent atoms form the resulting molecule.
    Geometric shapes seem to be at bottom of physics phenomena.

    See minute 31-34in:
    http://webcast.massey.ac.nz/Mediasite/Play/8ef7e03e26fc458b8eb7f351738f26811d

    It is the shape of the electron that determines what kind of gravity is created by the electron.
    Flat disk = no gravity

    Positive sphere = positive gravity

    Negative sphere = negative gravity

    Now to reinterpret those last three shapes with regard to 3-D space. How does each shape affect or transform space to attain the three varieties of gravity. Is it tensor calculus or something much simpler.
    The rotating, in effect, great circle paths of the constituent infinitesimal charge points cause inertia of the electron as a whole. This inertia is then the mass property as Randell Mills has calculated using Maxwellian electrodynamic formulas with Einsteins General Relativity formulas under lorentzian transform influence. So, shortening of space towards the negative sphere causes negative gravity. Space is inherently lengthened near negative electron spheres which is the negative gravity that is used to drive Dr. Mills antigravity device. Geomertry at work in antigravity.

  • Jas

    Bob, I have a question: How is Suhas planning on getting his device onto the market? Is the MFMP’s involvement necessary for him to move forward? Has he done any demonstrations for government or industry? Has he sought funding from investors?

    • John Littlemist

      One more:
      When is MFMP going to India to validate Suhas’ reactor?

  • AdrianAshfield

    Bob Greenyer,
    Did me356 ever get back to you about what the problem was or if he now has the new reactor working?

    • Bob Greenyer

      He said the lack of the performance was down to a number of things, leak, TC placement by contract manufacturer leading to heater failure, but most of all, not able to process fuel long enough.

      Given that Piantelli says his processing took many weeks and Suhas’ 200 hours, perhaps this is a real factor. I will touch base with him and see if he has made any progress on this.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have exchanged emails with Suhas today and we have agreed that he send me some of his starting materials, namely nickel sulphate (from which the foil is produced) and samples of his starting Nickel and Titanium powder.

    Note, when we did EDX, we found Pb on 2 different samples of part-processed fuel.

  • Bob Greenyer

    About sums it up if we are starting from AURA. Perhaps me356 will have got a reactor/fuel combo into a more favourable state.

  • Bob Greenyer

    We all were exhausted, I went to the UK to visit family for a few days, Brian and Ryan had to get back and catch up with their day jobs and family responsibilities (try packing 2 months of intensive development around your day job) and Alan and I went to the conference in Asti, where I was presenting and had to research and prepare a presentation.

    I got back and started the back log of analysis.

    I will touch base in the coming days with me356 and see if he has had time to process a batch of fuel and if that then produced a different result other than the extremely clearly demonstrated result we obtained whilst there.

    me356 did not play his best hand, it baffles me the choices he made between january and the test – he has our equipment with him to see if his other reactors perform better. Our apparatus performed far better than expected as our first evaluation of a steam system.

    Other than that I have about a weeks work doing the MFMP accounts for the UK tax authorities, I want to arrange some SEM/EDX on samples from me356, get the radiographic plates developed and sort visas and logistics for India – and that is just a small fraction on my roster.

    Steemit is far easier to post to, allows in-line comments – including embedded YT vids and drag and drop images – is spam free and those that joined in March have around $70 even if they did nothing! It is stamped into the block chain, indexed by google and cannot be sensored – also no spam, and responsive, so accessible from anywhere.

    • Omega Z

      So whats the hold up.
      You act like your busy and have a life outside of this work. Oh My. lol

      • Bob Greenyer

        This is not including family commitments and trying to earn a living

    • Andre Blum

      @bobgreenyer:disqus I am quite familiar with blockchain technology, have read and deeply understand the bitcoin whitepaper by satoshi, have invested in several cryptocurrencies and am (as you know) a software developer with 30 years experience. Still, every time I charge up to try to understand steemit and the mechanisms behind it even to just the level of being able to use it effectively, I give up out of a feeling of (needless) complexity. Without meaning to sound superior or anything, I would like to ask: if /even I/ don’t understand it, who can?

      • Bob Greenyer

        What I understand is that it allows free access to articles without annoying pop-ups/overlays (for non-members) and adverts (for members) – when compared to FaceBook.

        I understand that it has nice and easy formatting, drag and drop and is black on White (which people seam to like) and eSteem for mobiles also has a night mode.

        It allows threaded discourse and users can format their comments with all the power of the original post (table, highlighting, titles, images, photos)

        It requires no server to be paid for.

        Only the author of content can edit or delete it.

        Oh, and people can, apparently, withdraw cash to their own account if they earn some. Regardless of this I do not know of a platform that offers all of the above.

    • Steve H

      Bob – for the record.
      Your tenacity and dedication in trying to nail this technology is hugely appreciated. That obviously goes for your colleagues at MFMP.
      I assume there are others who feel the same way. We are not the most vocal people however.

      • Andre Blum

        Couldn’t agree more!
        and BTW I hold the same sentiment for me356, who got to endure a lot of negative comments that made me feel slightly ashamed for this community.

        • Bob Greenyer

          me356s’ willingness to be tested openly should be held up as a standard of excellence for the community – had certain others done the same when offered (in 2012) we may already have a proven technology on the table – or not.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks, it is always uncomfortable when the truth is not as we would wish. The MFMP was not set up to make a truth but to establish it, whatever that may be – sometimes people, including claimants can get upset when what is thought was real turns out not to be, however, there is more than enough in the spread of the projects experience to be encouraging.

        Apparent transmutation is one of those things, if we cannot explain it away then we must consider that there be something more going on.

        In my coming presentations I hope you put out some more radical thinking for consideration.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Bob,

      Happy Father’s Day!

      -Anon12/14

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks! Off out with the kids, some bubbles and a ball.

  • Gerard McEk

    Usually the software of these MS’s will give the most likely elements or molecules involved. The shown results should be taken seriously.
    Nevertheless, Holmium is not an element that you will find often and the MS may have got that wrong, because they may have never measured that with these particular MS-types.
    I would have liked to see the same analysis before the preparation, because the nickel foil could have been contaminated.

    • Bob Greenyer

      The nickel foil was produced from lab grade Nickel Sulphate in de-ionised water, electro-deposited by resonant 200V DC 300kHz plasma from and to SS304 plate electrodes.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have added another video that discussed how you use the MALDI in positive (for metals) and negative (for oxides).

    I have not analysed any of the negative modes, so there is an opportunity with mMass to do things like look for metal oxide signatures using the negative data sets. This might help clarify some finding.

    Would really appreciate if anyone can help run through that negative data mode data. Thanks!

  • Omega Z

    This is silly group think. The true value of gold is for technological and manufacturing purposes. It’s current value is based on speculation and false values. The U.S. Government could dump just a small quatity of it’s reserves and crash the value of gold and silver to a few dollars an once.

    Should the entire world economy collapse and I have a million bushel of corn and a million bushel of wheat and YOU have all the gold in the world, which do you think would have more value.

    Much like diamonds hold value because a few control their production. We have the technology to make diamonds much larger much cheaper with unmatched quality to those produced by nature.

    Some years ago, China floated the idea of replacing the Dollar with their REN. The U.S. said go for it. China backed down. You should contemplate why. Even they understood it would GREATLY benefit the U.S. and become a burden for them.

    That you don’t understand it is because of your slanted prejudicial poltical and economic views. Understand you can practice trade in any currency the world over(Nothing stopping you), yet everyone works through the currency trade system to do business in the dollar. To the detriment of the U.S. I would add.

    While some simplistic minded in the U.S. are concerned about U.S. isolationism, you should listen to leaders around the world. They are supper concerned with the prospect.

    • cashmemorz

      Even in a simplistic off-hand estimation (a view that many have it seems) of what the current effect of transmutation would be. At this point in time the amount of precious metals that can be produced by transmutation is probably in total so small you would need a microscope to see it. Try to sell that to someone. By the time transmutation gets to be a significant source for any element, be it gold or deuterium, everyone who has an interest in that particular element will have figured out sources that are just as cheap or cheaper. Asteroid mining is one place to get stuff cheap, once we have LENR powered space craft. Both technologies at that level are still decades away. I’m not investing in either untill major news breaks about either or any off that kind of tech. Revolutions sometimes take the slow route.

      • Bob Greenyer

        You make some good points – however, in the case of Lead, Suhas’ fuel processor appears to be very capable with a high yield – shame lead is not a precious metal.

      • Omega Z

        I fully agree, And probably they mined more gold this week then a century of gold produced by mutation.

  • Bob Greenyer

    To put some context to this, the foil was only meant to be nickel with some obvious contamination of Sulphur.

    The powder is meant to have ‘ions’ implanted into it and Suhas’ technology name suggests that he expected transmutation in the fuel preparation.

    “Resonant Ultrasonic Bubble Ionisation Implantation Transmutation”

    RUBIIT technology

    but the main reason, as I understood it, was to get the particles to a smaller and specific maximum size range.

    I never expected to see such a bulk transmutation, if that is what it is.

    • Stephen

      This is looking really interesting.

      Is the MARDI data supporting the EDX results?

      I wish I had the knowledge to interpret that data. Especially the role if any of the “weighted adducts” (im not sure what adducts are? are adducts combinations of atoms such as atomic pairs… or are they atoms with compound nuclei as Piantelli H- ion ingestion? Or something else).

      Would small differences in mass between atomic species and adducts of similar mass be detectable with this data?

      I hope someone can interpret this data it looks interesting.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Dear Stephen,

        I have answered these in a response to the steemit post and added two more videos to help illustrate my answer.

    • Stephen

      Hi Bob out of curiosity… do you know what the specific maximum size range of the particles is? .

      • Bob Greenyer

        <5um

        • Stephen

          Hmmm interesting. I wonder what amount of energy those oscillations would correspond to in an individual particle of that size. Would it be enough to ionize the adsorbed hydrogen (or other sorbed gases or Lithium) on the surface I wonder…?

          Is this done in a hydrogen atomosphere? Or are the particles already hydrogenated at that point?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Hi Stephen,

            It maybe that there are many m-state atoms (energetic isomers) formed in the fuel processor, or Jaques Defours’ pico-hydrides.

            Into the reactor cores, Suhas additionally adds Titanium Hydride

            https://steemit.com/science/@mfmp/ecco-new-fire-individual-reactor-core-cross-section-and-operation

            • Stephen

              Yup it’s getting interesting… it looks like there are going to be many layers to this story as it unfolds but if something is happening then perhaps it takes something like these states and their particular characteristics to manifest.

              Are they m-states stimulated directly from the 1MHz stimulation… or is the metal hydride particle a machine that uses this 1MHz stimulation to create the necessary secondary stimuli…(interaction with dense or constrained hydrogen ions for example). Could LENR also cause those secondary stimuli (by ionizating adsorbed Hydrogen for example)

              If those m-states are constrained in a crystal lattice would the be Mossbauer isotopes? If so could they be associated lattice vibrations or would that only occur in a crystal containing only one element? if so could this vibrations be near the Debye temperature? If so could that enhance other effects perhaps associated with LENR such as H anion uptake etc.

              Could plasmonics on the surface of these particles play a role? Are they optically or plasmonics black? Or optically shiny particles?

              Could the thermal dynamics of adsorption of Metal Hydrides and kinetics of ionization lead the particles achieving optimum temperature associated with recoil in the Mossbauer effect.

              Is it all a surface effect or can they stimulate the cores if the particles?

              I can’t help thinking it is the size of these particles in the particular stimulation and environment that makes the machine…

              But I have good hopes that ECCO and Nova could shed some light on some if these questions.

            • Stephen

              Hi Bob, does Suhas use our TiH2 or some other kind of bi metallic Hydride such as TiCrH or TiFeH or some other kind of trimetalic Hydride such as TiMoCrH?

              Hydrides can have very different thermodynamic properties for adsorbtion and desorption depending on the materials used… as evidenced in the “van’t Hoff” plots for these materials… TiH2 for example has quite high temperature for these properties above 670 K to about 900 K depending on pressure the other Hydrides above however have much lower values and can extend over much larger temperature ranges… TiMoCrH for example can range from below 220 K to 370 K.

              Since the thermodynamics of adsorption and desorption would be local to individual particles… perhaps local effects are important.

              I’ve already mentioned above the hot heating case with Adsorption.

              Could pressure induced desorption of a very small particle TiMoCrH result in it locally achieving very low temperatures despite the wider environment being hotter?

              If so could a material be found that can have these properties at sufficiently cold temperatures for other affects such as superconductivity, Bose einstein condensates and perhaps EVO’s or something similar to more easily manifest.

              I always appreciated Axils ideas etc but had trouble understanding how these effects could manifest in a high temperatures but perhaps they can if at particle level we can have very localized very cold temperatures formed by this kind of process.

              Pure speculation of course and I expect the ideas are wrong somewhere but it’s interesting to consider these possibilities I think.

              (Incidentally it’s probably important to consider the thermal dynamics and kinetics of adsorption and desorption in Hydrogen Metal Hydrides in understanding the experiment data.

              I suppose at very high temperatures the Nickel is not able to adsorb or contain adsorbed hydrogen any more too.. )

              It’s not about LENR but the following link describes quite well some things about the topic:

              http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/21876.pdf

              And here is a very interesting paper by some one called Marc Linder about automotive cooling systems based on metal Hydrides that I found on the internet the use of combination of two different metal Hydrides like this for heat pumps is quite an interesting concept I think.

              I can’t help wondering if these properties are somehow indirectly important for LENR especially where they are combined be ionization stimulation desorption or stimulated hydrogen excitation instead of thermal desorption or in the case of adsorption by charge assisted adsorption.

              • Bob Greenyer

                Thanks for this, I hope to address your points with an update on ECCO that I will start authoring (and hopefully publish) tomorrow.

                • Stephen

                  Hi Bob

                  Here is another very interesting and extremely rich in information publication on “charged induced enhancement of hydrogen adsorption for hydrogen storage materials” by someone called Xiang Sun.

                  http://digitalcommons.mtu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=etds

                  I’m not sure it contains the thermal dynamics and kinetics data I was originally looking for… But….

                  It contains over 197 pages of really good clear data and information including very good background and clear development of his ideas and results.

                  I was very impressed by this publication and couldn’t help thinking a lot of his observations could be applicable to LENR…

                  His method and discussion about sustaining the hydrogen plasma at workable temperatures is particularly interesting. Also his discussion on Hydrogen clusters etc. There is a lot in here…. As I say it rich in useful information

                • Bob Greenyer

                  Wah, that is a massive document – I’ll have to put it in the queue – thanks all the same! Perhaps, you could pick out some tasty chunks from it for closer inspection?

    • roseland67

      Bob,
      Did you replicate the entire experiment?

  • Mats002

    Did Suhas or the EDX operator wear a Rolex clock? 😉

    • Bob Greenyer

      No.

  • Bob Matulis

    Sounds like alchemy. Indian is the world’s largest importer of gold for jewelry.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It would be interesting to learn more about the role of hydrogen in this context. Unfortunately, the process requires water, so that hydrogen cannot be left out. But a comparative experiment using D2O instead of H2O could provide some insights. An essentially different result would indicate that the water was more than just an electrolytic medium.

    • Bob Greenyer

      That is a test I would love to do, but there will be no time in India. The foil process requires a LOT of water, the powder process would be more doable, but this requires 200 hours.

  • Gerard McEk

    The link does not seem to work.