Friday May 26, MFMP Testing Me356 LENR Reactor

Here’s a new thread dedicated to the actual testing by the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project of the claimed LENR reactor that has been built by researcher “Me356”. Recent posts have dealt with the preparation the MFMP team has been making for the testing, but I thought it would be appropriate to start a new thread for the actual testing that is scheduled to begin today, May 25, 2017. I will add information here as it is revealed.

There are some interesting details that can be found in a new audio file released by the MFMP in which Bob Greenyer, Ryan Hunt and Brian Albiston discuss a visit they made to Me356 today in preparation for tomorrow’s test. The full audio can be heard here:

A few of the points the guys bring up on this recording are:

On visiting me356 on Thursday they found him to be very gracious and cooperative, helping them get their equipment set up and providing them with food and drink.

The were shown his reactor, and they describe it like a small ‘glowstick’ encased in aluminum, almost hermetically sealed. Me356 says that they will be able to weigh it, also that they can touch it during operation, since there is a cooling system that is able to take away the heat.

The team members were able to hold the reactor and they said it seemed heavy for its size. Me356 said that the reactor takes 10 minutes to get up to full performance level after turning it on, but that net positive COP is reached within five minutes after starting it.

The MFMP team has been invited to come to me356’s place at 14:00 on Friday. Bob says that photos will be posted tomorrow.

MFMP’s Test Log is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puq-FskyCZyFlshjBF4AF53TEB9tzgWQO2My0hVFGsg/edit#

On the way to the test:

Me356 told the MFMP the the reactor they are testing is rated at 4kW.

From the MFMP Log document:

“13:55 UTC – The reactor has arrived. We will begin a live video soon.

First test is going to be a test where we sparge steam into a bucket.
We will weigh, measure, and video the device.
We will do a video tour of all the instrumentation.
Then we will fill the bucket on a scale so we can note the mass of water to be warmed. WE will note the starting temperature.
Then we will connect the reactor and start it up and see how long it takes to heat the water 50 or 60 degrees C

This is the simple test. WE did a prototype test a few days ago “

The MFMP team with the me356 reactor:MFMP and Me356 reactor

Here’s the first video feed, which is an initial look at the lab and the reactor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9EL_rEzjWg

New live video stream of “Sparge Test 1” is posted:

  • Frank Acland

    There is a new thread started a new thread for today’ activity: http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/05/27/mfmp-and-me356-testing-saturday-may-27/

  • greggoble

    Great… you’ve all got me to study up.
    Steam Thermodynamics
    Thermodynamics of steam and condensate applications
    From the Engineering ToolBox
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-thermodynamics-t_12.html

  • Rene

    Bob, maybe me356 has already done this, but, raspberry PIs are notorious for emitting tons of RFI if they are not grounded. It is especially bad because the little switching supply often used to power them is not grounded so the RFI from the PI travels on all wires connected to it.
    I ran into this problem with my noise monitors. The sound pressure meter preamps picked up the RFI raising the noise floor over 15dB.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks good to know

      • artefact

        Morning. When will the test continue?

        • Bob Greenyer

          me has some sickness in his family and has been unable to condition the reactor, we are going to get more insulation for the flow calorimeter and then apply it and see where he is after that.

          • Toussaint françois

            Will me256 be able to tune his reactor today ?

            • Bob Greenyer

              Yes

  • Bob Greenyer

    Hi All,

    Thanks for your attention – we learned a lot today, me356 will use the metrics he has that are unavailable to us (like core temperature and pressure) to tweak the reactor and fuel processing before our flow calorimetry run 1 tomorrow.

    We incorporated as much as possible from everyone’s sparge testing advice but to no avail, for whatever reason, no measurable excess was seen in this run.

    We did see ultrasonic sound signature and gained a range of bonus insight into the claimed device which we can go over in a livestream tomorrow.

    Have a good night/evening from all of us here… ‘somewhere in Eastern Europe’

    • Ged

      Hope you rest well and are having fun! Doing this for us all who can’t is very appreciated. We shall see what the next run shows, and looking forward to hearing those insights. Mysterious ultrasounds eh?

      • Bob Greenyer

        It is exhausting – for us and me356. Full respect to him for allowing the test.

        We need to find the optimum way to give him the best chance of giving the AURA it’s best shot during this next test

        • Bob, please keep the cameras off for the first time.

          You should give me356 the possibility to manage the start up of the system and intervene quickly if necessary.
          When the reactor is up and running he can leave the room (with a good feeling) and care about his familiy. And you can turn on the cameras again.

          The data is more important then the video. I guess most agree with that.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That is what we agreed to do with him yesterday.

  • I’ve seen comments on a couple of topics here below—just a few thoughts from my side:

    1. The first test apparently failed. That happens. I’ve been through that a couple of times with Rossi’s tests too. Most frustrating was in Uppsala in April 2012, where the calorimetry set-up was calibrated with high accuracy and a positive test would have been conclusive. But the reactor broke and then time ran out. However, you just need to pick up the ball again. Patience.

    2. Calorimetry calibration. I have not been following the MFMP’s documentation in detail (I rarely have time to watch videos and listen to sound files—Frank does a great job, however, to summarise in text—thanks! Quicker to digest.), and I don’t know how well calibrated their calorimetry set-up is, but I guess it’s top-notch as usual, and that’s good in that case. The steam sparging will only give a hint.

    3. I find the discussion interesting on how to spread successful LENR results to the world. Some believe you should immediately make all details public, for the world’s best. Others think it’s the inventor’s right (specifically if it’s an ‘inventor’ rather than a ‘scientist’) to keep the details secret and try putting a working product on the market, convincing the world in that way. I’m still not sure which way is the wisest. To those two perspectives, however, I think you should add the safety aspect. At this point I have realised that apart from potentially unknown hazards with LENR reactions such as not easily detectable muon radiation, there are risks related to the incredibly high energy density that you as an inventor might feel responsible for, wanting to research the process extensively before making your knowledge public. It’s not an easy choice.

    Keep up the good work MFMP!

    • Omega Z

      An inventor will produce a product for market as soon as the product is percieved as ready.

      A scientist will spend years analyzing every step forward even when it is past acceptable to be a product. There is just a different mentality. Note that Universities and scientists apply for shared patents rights. I think as a rule that Universities claim 50%.

    • Mats002

      About safety and muons:

      From Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon:

      “In 2003, the scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory developed a new imaging technique: muon scattering tomography. With muon scattering tomography, both incoming and outgoing trajectories for each particle are reconstructed, such as with sealed aluminum drift tubes.[26] Since the development of this technique, several companies have started to use it.”

      If the device is a muon producer it can be detected and since muons go through matter (it penetrates deep into earth) it would’nt react much going through biological matter. If muons are a health hazard I wunder why ‘several companies have started to use it’.

    • Gullstrom?

  • Engineer48

    Some numbers to think about.

    1MW of superheated dry steam a day, at 1 atmo pressure, represents 36,000 litres of input water.

    Therefore per 1kW of output needs 1.5 litres of water per hour plus the superheated steam is invisible.

    While measuring the output energy is great, a simple way to start is to adjust the input water rate so the steam exiting into the air is invisible (dry). Then increase the flow rate until the steam is visible (wet) and then back off the flow rate until it is again invisible.

    Energy in the dry steam is then ~1kW / 1.5 litres per hour of intake water.

  • LukeDC

    Anyone know why Bob pulled the sparge test vid? I am in Australia and the time offset sees the live science happening in the middle of the night for me.

    • Mats002

      Time to get some sleep I suppose.

      • LukeDC

        I went to bed just before the sparge test and got up hoping to see the video but the link above shows “video unavailable”

        • Mats002

          The link goes to the live feed which they switched off for today.

  • Mats002

    So this was a Null test, nor positive, nor negative.

    Truth vs NiH LENR+ 1-1

    Next game tomorrow.

  • greggoble

    LENR Quiz – What year and what patent?

    This invention takes advantage of the non-singular electrostatic potential and the newly predicted interactions between the electrons and protons that make up a deuteron and provides the conditions that bring about a fusion between two deuterons to form a helium atom. The preferential fusion of two deuterium atoms into a helium atom is brought about by preconditioning the deuterons in space and in their alignment with respect to each other. This conditioning is obtained by placing the deuterons into a crystalline lattice to hold them near each other. The crystalline lattice is placed in a strong magnetic controlling field to magnetically align the spins of the deuterium nuclei thereby starting the reaction. The addition of the heat causes the deuterium nuclei to vibrate within the crystalline lattice and this provides their motion with respect to each other which increases the reaction rate.

    • artefact

      September 2013 🙂

      • greggoble

        Bingo…

        Deuterium Reactor US 20130235963 A1
        Publication date: Sep 12, 2013 – Priority date: Mar 12, 2012
        $25,000 was received in 2008 from NSWC, Indian Head Division, to design experiments, review reports, and analyze data. The experiments verified heating using powdered/granulated fuel.
        http://www.google.com/patents/US20130235963A!

        gbgoblenote – As a United States Department of Defense (DoD) Energetics Center, Naval Surface Warfare Center, Indian Head Division is a critical component of the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) Warfare Center (WFC) Enterprise. One of the WFC’s nine Divisions, Indian Head’s mission is to research, develop, test, evaluate, and produce energetics and energetic systems for US fighting forces.

        Energetics are explosives, propellants, pyrotechnics, reactive materials, related chemicals and fuels and their application in propulsion systems and ordnance.

        As the largest DoD full spectrum energetics facility and leader in the Navy’s energetics enterprise, NSWC Indian Head employs a workforce of more than 1,400, of which more than 850 are scientists, engineers, and technicians dedicated to developing and sustaining explosives, propellants, pyrotechnics, high-energy chemicals and their application to warfighting systems. In addition, NSWC Indian Head has the largest concentration of PhDs working in Energetics in the WFC, including the highest number of synthesis chemists, detonation physicists, and formulation scientists dedicated to the energetics National competency.

        Also, this leads us to the following two items of reading interest…

        The only patent cited in the preceding patent, which is…

        “Low temperature fusion” US 20090122940 A1
        http://www.google.com/patents/US20090122940A1

        Also a LENR theoretical paper…

        “Can Established Physical Principles Explain Solid-State Fusion?” page 503 – Proceedings of the 14th International Conference on Cold Fusion – Volume II
        http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJproceedinga.pdf

        Both by a gentleman by the name of Ben R. Breed. A review of his patent history gives one an idea of his background.
        https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininventor:%22Ben+R.+Breed%22&gws_rd=ssl

        Till tomorrow… Hoping for a smooth successful test.

  • Rene

    They ran a calibration test using a 3KW electric heater. That definitely showed a temp rise in the open bucket. So, far less than 3KW was coming out of that reactor. The copper coil was under at most a foot of water, which is less than 1/2 PSI. The pump definitely puts out more pressure than that since it is a positive displacement impulse device with a one-way valve.
    I think the reactor wasn’t working and needs me 356 to find out what broke.

    • Stephen

      I’m wondering if in addition to pressure head if there was Insufficient steam flow. If so then if cooling of the steam in the copper pipe occurs when in the bucket perhaps it would condense in the pipe sufficiently to cause a vacuums sufficient to suck water from the bucket into the pipe?

  • artefact

    They make a different test tomorrow morning with the heat exchanger to that the steam can flow more freely.

    • Ged

      Hopefully there are plenty of days left for more!

  • Ged

    They are trying to test it right now, but discovering the joys of technical difficulties that always happen. Don’t worry, they are all getting sorted.

  • interstellar hobo

    So did ME356 try this experiment himself before they arrived to actually see if it would work? I would hate to think they traveled that far to stir a bucket of cold water.

    • Ged

      I don’t think so. He made a fresh reactor and fresh fuel and finished prepping it the day before they came to his place. He could always dissect it or make another as it sounds like they’ve got time.

      Something sounds really off with the heating. Maybe the coils aren’t working right or there is a short.

  • artefact

    Too much backpressure from the copper pipe under water. The steam can not flow through. Normally steam should be produced even without fuel. They say.

    • Rene

      That’s easy enough to prove if they were to lift the coil out of the bucket.

    • Ged

      That is a weakness of sparging. Gotta have enough pressure to push through the weight of the water.

      • Stephen

        Yup curious, I’m sure it can be explained somehow but curious how. Are the heat losses through that short length of rubber pipe sufficient to explain that?

        Is the cooling as the steam flows through the copper pipe of the sparger in the bucket involved or are the heat losses necessarily occurring before this?

        Would be interesting and “cool” if the device was working in some endothermic way.

        But it’s obviously much more likely it’s due to losses. I’m just curious what they could be and if they add up suffiently. Also if we need to take these losses into account with the remaining tests.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Let’s say the water column had a height of 0.3 m, then the backpressure would come to 0.03 barG. Not enough to reduce the steam flow significantly, IMO. If the device is so sensitive that it may fail due to tiny variations of the flow, this would be an intrinsic problem. But I think that’s as well unlikely.

      • Ged

        They say in the log that once they removed the copper sparger from the bucket and let the water drain from the pipe, that they saw steam coming out. Seems the water weight and coldness did indeed stop the steam from making it through as steam. Just means there wasn’t enough heat and the steam was probably wet and low percentage.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          They might have seen some vapour although only a small fraction of the water had changed its phase (remember the 1 : 1700 ratio). If there had been a lot of steam, the hose would not have been able to absorb all the energy. Yes, there was obviously not enough output.

  • Rene

    It’s having problems.
    Bob is attempting to channel Maxwell’s daemon 🙂
    Looks like the pump was over cooling the core quenching the reaction.?

    • Ged

      Possible. If it can’t get up to temp then nothing should happen, so that is encouraging in an accidental way. At least we know all the measuring systems are working and debugged then.

      • Discouraging so far. But yes, an indication that everyone is an honest broker at least.

        • Ged

          No false positives is definitely a good thing, I think. If the device was just making heat without needing to be in the LENR initiation zone, that would be bad–and now we know it doesn’t, so that rules out an RTG ;).

          • We cherish our small victories here in LENR-land.

            • Ged

              We hold them near and dear to our hearts.

            • nietsnie

              Small victories add up. True courage is not of the fire that rages, but of the ember that *will not* be ground out.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            At least, we have our ‘blank run’. The measured loss might be useful information in the context of future attempts.

      • Rene

        agreed.
        I am surprised that me356’s raspberry PI control does not control the pump flow & rate parameters.

        • artefact

          the cable was broken and they had to set it manually.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Actually integration of the pump control had not been completed on this reactor.

  • LION

    Love the videos, a BIG THANKS to me356 for allowing testing by MFMP.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    The protocol seems to indicate a COP of 2.6. Not bad if correct!

    • Ged

      That would be very good!

    • artefact

      They corrected it. 0.69 overall at the moment.

      • Ged

        Powerfully endothermic!

        • artefact

          he copied that from rossi to get rid of a lot of heat 🙂

          • Ged

            37C in and 19C out is a little suspicious for such a small thermal mass. Dunno what is up.

            • Mats002

              The running mouse is going the wrong direction?

              • Adam Lepczak

                me356 invented a heat sucking device to solve global warming problem!

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I’m getting 0.72. Does me356 have an explanation?

  • radvar

    Frank, someone left the door open and a troll came in…

  • radvar

    Sounds like you are experiencing some kind of personal suffering.

  • artefact

    From the test log:
    “The graph of temp and power is looking extremely interesting. It will require spreadsheet analysis to see if it saying what it looks like at a glance.”

    • Andreas Moraitis

      One might guess that the stable temperature rise is simply a consequence of thermal inertia. Unfortunately, a ‘true’ blank run for comparison is not possible – it would require an empty reactor. But the question if there is excess heat or not is certainly much more important than such details.

      • artefact

        From the test log chat: Bob wrote: “There was no excess in the previous section, me356 said same. me356 says there may be something in it now”

      • Ged

        They have the inline water heater to use as a method control at least.

  • AdrianAshfield

    less time wasted than reading your comment. You obviously have not been following the story or at least failed to understand what happened.

  • greggoble

    The ‘race to market’ LENR energy… Me356, Rossi, Brillouin, NASA, Global Energy Corporation (Forsely, SPAWAR et.al.), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Toyota, Indian Head Division (U.S. Army lab), Boeing, GE… this list is not exhaustive. All are following different paths to “race to market”.

    I enjoy discussing any of these folks efforts, mostly sharing my opinion that this field is more advanced than any of us are aware of.

    Issues of maximizing power gain and direct nuclear/electric production, also applied engineering developed for utilizing LENR energy, are reasons to keep this under wraps till one has gained an edge, i.e. mastery of the technology.

    Rossi is following that path as is the U.S. Navy and NASA. MFMP a bit different path… Me356 perhaps one in between… What’s wrong with that?

    • radvar

      Interesting summary. I’ve alway$ felt there wa$ much more going on than wa$ made public. Regardle$$ of the probability, there wa$ ju$t too much con$equence for it to be ignored.

      • greggoble

        Ha… I wish that all my S’s were like that.

  • Ged

    I seriously doubt that is actually Hank Mills.

    • LukeDC

      Hank had gone a little rogue over at LENR Forum

  • nietsnie

    I have questionable Plot.ly “Flow, Temperature, Power” output. It says, “An hour ago.” at the top of the page – and it doesn’t change. I’ve tried updating the page several times but the result is the same. This by comparison to the “Radiation” plot – which says “In a few seconds” and seems to be updating. Anyone getting current data for temp?

    • pelgrim108
      • nietsnie

        I have the same problems with this one. Maybe my throughput is the problem.

    • Ged

      Plot.ly has been giving me trouble for days. Dunno what is up. Try doing an autoscale resizing, as it might help get it refreshing.

      • nietsnie

        That sometimes works for me – thanks. Or, at least the current time is now 18:55 UTC – which is close to correct (although it still thinks it’s ‘an hour ago’ at the top of the page). Any idea why the inlet temp is 10C higher than the outlet and rising? Are the leads switched?

        • pelgrim108

          Have you tried dragging the timescale to the left?

          • nietsnie

            I have now – no change. But, I can autoscale periodically to update.

            Now output temp on Plot.ly is off altogether. That is – the output plot ended at 18:58:31 and now it’s several minutes later.

            • nietsnie

              For the past 20 minutes I’m only getting ‘power’ and ‘inlet’ (which has now risen to 35.59C). I hope this clears up.

              • SG

                Same.

              • Ged

                Freeboard https://freeboard.io/board/MwMhlL seems to be working for immediate data. Combining that with the broken Plot.ly site helps, but is annoying to have to jump between just because Plot.ly’s scripts have gone down hill from a year ago.

                • nietsnie

                  Thanks – yes, that’s something at least.

    • AdrianAshfield

      It looks like MFMP are doing a sparge test to start with so their main instrumentation will not be seeing the output of the reactor yet

  • Svein Arild Utne

    Has the input and output temp been switched?

  • SG

    So much for getting any work done today. LOL.

    • Ged

      I hear ya!

  • Barbierir

    @Cannon STFU

  • artefact
  • Stephen

    I hope this thread can stick to real technical points. Real criticism that improves the test is welcome in my view. Blanket posting of disruptive hate based posts to hide real useful facts and information is not.

    It’s stunning to see what you guys are up against. Ignore them and stay on course with what’s important. The test.

    Stephen

    • Cannon

      So you consider opposition to someone who is intentionally allowing the LENR field to stagnate by withholding know how he specifically PROMISED (repeatedly) to share openly in a very SHORT period of time (he specifically mentioned weeks) as hate speech? This individual is taking advantage of the entire LENR community for his personal gain. With a few pages of text he could reveal information that could allow for hundreds of replications to take place. No longer would replicators have to deal with a 99% failure rate. Instead, they would have to strive to control the enormous excess heat produced. But this man along with Bob Greenyer has all of you brainwashed. Because all of you obviously think it’s better that the knowledge to make LENR systems work be held hostage by Me356 than be openly shared.

      • Stephen Taylor

        You seem to assume that me356 actually has something. That remains an unknown.

  • LilyLover

    Let me provide some cannonfodder to the Cannon. Or, should I better spend my time on Nikon?
    Once ECCO reactor gets tested with all open source replication information, here’s your strategy Cannon:
    How can you trust an ug,ly old man? If he was smart enough, he should have done everything in his youth. It took him so many years to come up with this reactor clearly means that he is not bright. Therefore, his reactor cannot really be functional. If his reactor were functional, he wodn’t bother with “proving to us”, he would rather have sold millions of those and reaped billions in profit. Is he rich? No! That must mean that the technology is fake!
    And yes, please move onto cat videos. I produced too much cannon fodder today.

    • Cannon

      I’d much rather this thread be filled with your dis-coherent ramblings than worship of a greedy liar who is hindering advancement of LENR by refusing to share know how. So, please, continue to post them. You’re words and sentences might as well be random text.

      • Mats002

        Frank – where is moderation today?

        • LilyLover

          No, No, No!!
          It takes a loose cannon to bring even the fiercest of the enemies support each other. He is greatly unifying the ECatters. Let him!!

          • Chapman

            HERE HERE!

            In addition, there is a need for entertainment between the data releases! I dare say that anyone who finds him offensive, or distracting, can easily block him and focus only on the substantive posts. But for SOME of us he is as funny as the super bowl halftime commercials!

            And, lets face it… LilyLover is going into halftime with a 98-0 lead!!!

          • Cannon

            Go ahead and support Me356. Gather together and hold services bowing down and singing songs in his support. Ignore the fact that no test results he shares (without massive third party replications) will change the current situation whatsoever. LENR will still be languishing in obscurity years from now while me356 is still holding his know how secret. In 2020 you’ll finally wake up from the trance, look at each other, and realize due to his lack of willingness to share know how, NOTHING was accomplished.

          • Ged

            No… I think this is legitimately getting out of hand. Saying he would rather die then eat in the same room as me356 is a level of hyperbol that is certifiable insanity. I know it is fun in a perverse way to watch someone troll as if they were having a stroke, but this is a test thread where we should be dealing with technical issues and support of the methods/data analysis going on, and the sockpuppets Cannon/Nikon are disrupting our science.

          • Mats002

            Ok – play with that mouse then ^^

        • Cannon

          The best moderation he could do is ban discussion of Me356 from this site.

  • pelgrim108

    There is a new plot.ly stream.
    https://plot.ly/~QuantumHeat/29