Rossi: Experimenting with Battery-Powered QuarkX

On the Journal of Nuclear Physics today, Rossi stated: “This morning we are making an experiment, testing the device to allow the QuarkX to be able to work either with battery or with AC power source, like a computer.”

This announcement has sparked some interest, as many people over the years have expressed a hope that it might be possible to power a QuarkX with a battery, rather than having to have it dependent upon the grid for power. Battery powered E-Cats would provide a lot of flexibility and portability to the technology, and enable it to operate in places where a grid source of electricity was not available.

There were some follow-up questions and answers:

Eva
April 20, 2017 at 8:05 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi:
Very interesting your test with batteries. This will surely make easier the measurement of the COP: direct current is much easier to measure. AR: Also, it helps us to measure with precision the alternate current directly generated by the reactor. It is a very interesting experiment.

Frank Acland
April 20, 2017 at 11:26 AM
Dear Andrea,

It’s interesting to hear you are experimenting running the quarkX with a battery.

1. So far, does the QuarkX act normally with the battery as a power source? AR: no
2. What is the power rating for the battery you are using? AR: we are testing different sizes
3. What advantages do you see in running the QuarkX from a battery? AR: just more options and portability

Italo R.
April 20, 2017 at 11:08 AM
Dr. Rossi, do you convert che battery DC to AC before powering che QuarkX? AR: no

1. Even if the QuarkX is not working normally with the battery, is it working at all (even if less efficient)? AR: no
2. You say that the electrical production from the QuarkX is alternating current (AC) — has this always been the case? AR: yes
3. Have you had to modify your control system for the battery powered experiment? AR: yes

Rossi indicates that the QuarkX is not working with the battery input, so the experiments may not be success. To this point it seems that all the tests have been carried out with an AC power source, so things may operate differently with DC input (he states above he is not converting DC battery input to AC), and while battery powered QuarkXs would obviously be desirable, it sounds like it is too early to tell whether it is a practical idea.

  • NCY

    Why bother with trying to make it work on DC? Inverters don’t lose that much efficiency, (90-95%) for DC to AC conversion.

    • Jhusta Twitte

      If it were possible then it would also be possible that the QuarkX could be self sustaining. This would be like running a gasoline car without a battery. Even diesel engines require the external heat energy in air to ignite fuel. Imagine what it would be like to have self sustaining energy generators!

    • DrD

      He explained that it’s to avoid the unecessary inverter. He’s correct, it’s a simpler solution but in typical manner he can’t resist the challenge to conitinue to develop to perfection.
      Given that he already appears to have an almost working product using AC input, that inverter route (AC input) would be his fastest route to market. But, that’s not helpful to him as he’s held up anyway, by the law suit and maybe 5sigma.

  • Omega Z

    NOW You’re just being lazy.
    Go pop your own pop corn for this saga like the rest of us…..

  • Kevmo

    Rossi isn’t a scientist. He is a businessman. Whether his potion is real medicine or snake oil, he is going to sell it rather than disclose it.

  • Observer

    Exactly.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    April 21, 2017

    Q: “The AC output previously mentioned: AC is a broad term. Can you bound the measured frequency?
    a. below 100 Hertz
    b. Above 1 MHz
    c. Somewhere between a and b.”

    AR: “a.“

    The big question: What kind of reaction would produce AC below 100 Hz? My first guess is that the frequency of the output is determined by the input, probably 60 Hz AC. That would be consistent with the idea that I have tried to outline below. On the other hand, I had expected a much higher (possibly resonant) frequency.

    The good message is that low frequencies are easier to measure; also, they produce less interference with electronics. Obviously, this would increase the reliability of the experimental results.

  • Steve Swatman

    If this is the way people see it, and they no longer believe that mr Rossi will ever deliver, why do they keep coming back and commenting, its a bit like complaining about a Tv show you no longer watch or enjoy, whats the point move on, let the show disappear into the dust. it does seem that each time Mr Rossi says something there are a large amount of negative posts of late, since the court case started really. Ah well that is the way of todays internet.

    • nietsnie

      I think that must indicate at least a niggling doubt, don’t you? Nothing more irritating than niggling doubt about something one has no personal opportunity to verify. And yet, nothing to do in the meantime besides express one’s opinion when it seems called for. Well, and trolls, of course.

      Or – maybe the issue has become one of those internet subjects whose resolution has evolved beyond it’s practical application. I myself know all sorts of things about Kardashians, and their various attachments, that I can’t seem to un-know in spite of never once having watched their TV shows. The siren song calls out to one from Google News and one finds oneself having clicked in spite of oneself. Admittedly – one doesn’t subsequently forum about them though… unless one is relating about it in the abstract.

    • doug marker

      AR has us all by the our ‘short & curlys’ (old English expression).

      It applies to supports, observers & skeptics in equal measure.

      The issue of a new energy source is so powerful and compelling that this story will carry on until oneone produces the ‘rabbit out of the hat’.

      That is the reality of this situation !.

      (PS AR *did* use the pre-orders of home eCats to sell regional licenses. Then when IH got involved, AR bought back all the licenses he could. Those involved who chose to get their money back were given the approx equiv of normal interest for the period AR had their money. If you do not or did not know this, then I suggest you delve deeper as there are a few such tidbits that are available). Cheers D.

  • Mike Ivanov

    No demo, no design, no nothing…. keep watching, but I honestly do not understand the hype about this misterious QuarkX device. I mean, show something visible, not blurred blue ligth.

    • Axil Axil

      When the Koch brothers and others eventually take Rossi seriously, the Kocks will make what IH is doing to Rossi look like a love in. Rossi cannot be looking forward to the crapstorm that will descend on Rossi’s head when he is taken seriously by the fossil fuel interests.

      • Anon2012_2014

        Rossi silenced by “big oil”: Tin foil hat conspiracy theory stuff.

        Either Rossi doesn’t have it, or Rossi has it and is simply overly paranoid. We lack sufficient information to decide which it is as his behavior is consistent with both hypotheses.

        • James Andrew Rovnak

          You hope?

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Or, IH is Big Oil.

      • Fibber McGourlic

        If he opened up to the world and showed definitively that he had invented a practical reactor that produced inexpensive, pollution-free energy, the whole world would be at his doorstep honoring and celebrating him. No one could touch him. He’d be the most celebrated human alive and he’d win the Nobel Prize–to say the least. They’d call him “Saint Rossi, the man who made deserts bloom and brought peace and plenty to the people of the earth.” If only he could and would do it…

        • Axil Axil

          There is the unfortunate case of Lief Holmlid whose experiment produces a boatload of mesons, pions, and muons, but no professional scientist will believe his experimental results let alone endorse them and Holmlid. Like all experimental results, It all involves money. If there is money to be made, then the belief and endorsements are assured. If there is no profit in that belief, then there is no reason to believe. If Rossi and/or Mills can produce a revenue stream, then the world will believe in whatever they say, whatever it is.

        • cashmemorz

          From what i understand about the Nobel awards process, they are awarded according to category. Rossi might fall into any of several. Physics: unknown process, so not awardable; peace, that would take time to happen and then was the peace caused by the E-Cat alone or somethings acting in synergy; disruptive invention: there is no such category but then who would award disruption; man of the year: that is announced by journalists and/or special interest groups not tied to the Nobel committee. More likely the Koch brothers will weasel their way into Rossi’s economic milieu and do him in financially.

      • James Andrew Rovnak

        I told Rossi about Jane Myer’s book “Dark Money” details on how the #kochbrothers currently Scam all Americans & to be aware of them interfering with the E-Cat series commercialization. He didn’t think they would be a problem, I think he is in for a surprise – they may even now be behind IH ?

    • Omega Z

      Rossi’s hands are tied until the court case is concluded.
      IH/Darden are holding Rossi to all confidentiality and NDA agreements other then what is disclosed in court…

  • Anon2012_2014

    All he needs to do is have a 20 watt commercial incandescent bulb (with the wattage and voltage stamped on it) run in the demo room for longer time than it would take to drain an equivalent sized battery or fuel cell and he is done with his demo. He claims AC out and he has DC in. The AC to DC converters are 90+% efficient. The leftover power runs the bulb. The rest is waste of time. I believe it when he does this.

    • Brokeeper

      Agree Anon:

      Brokeeper WaltC • 10 months ago

      A 100W unplugged lightbulb lit 24/7 laying on a guarded courts table. 🙂

  • DrD

    Yes, it always surprised me that IH et al never played the “power factor” card. Oops, have I let the Cat out of the bag?

    • DrD

      In fact any PF error would only work in AR’s favour unless IH tried using it as “fog”

  • DrD

    Hallelujah.
    I think he needs a really good electronics designer though.
    It’s not difficult to design a black box inverter and conditioner that would convert the battery output to emulate exactly the existing input supply and thats true even if it needs a high surge capability.
    He appears to be trying to modify his control system to cope with a different input supply which seems a lengthy and risky route given that he already has a solution with a Mains (Grid) supply.
    Not to sound too negative but I hope this doesn’t distract from giving us the Mains supplied Quarks. His onward plight to 5 sigma seems never ending. I would like to see a daily chart as I sometimes wonder if it’s flat.

  • doug marker

    By the living lord Andrea Rossi is a brilliant promoter.

    Can you imagine the impact of a Raspberry Pi equivalent LENR device (well yes I can, I still have 2 of the earliest orders for the home eCat offered by Andrea several years ago).

    One day, just maybe one day, I’ll get something.

    Cheers

    Doug Marker

    • Steve Swatman

      The good point been, that you have never had to pay for these orders or invest your funds in Rossi’s work. Waiting isnt so too bad when it costs nothing.

      • doug marker

        Steve,
        Absolutely 🙂

        But, is there a pattern ?

        Cheers D

        • psi2u2

          I like the combination of optimism and hard skepticism in your comments.

          • doug marker

            psi2u2 – I try to be fair 🙂 – In the past 6 months have trashed IH many times for a stack of IMHO valid reasons (none have changed). But Andrea is a tough man. In some ways quite predictable.

            As said a few days back – if AR’s enduring legacy is that it was largely he who brought LENR & new energy ideas to a world wide audience of optimistic inquisitive thinkers and researchers, then he is worth his weight in gold. AR will always win my support, no matter, against any who seek to squash or destroy human innovation and enthusiasm for the next ‘impossible’ advance in our scientific knowledge.

            The only real impossible I see, is trying to stop humankind’s innovation and penchant for invention.

            Doug Marker

        • Steve Swatman

          I seem to remember all investors been very careful and diligent about their investments, yes he may have pointed to the orders, but any investor would understand they were only representative of the few who believed.

  • nietsnie

    I think the largest amount of enthusiasm for the resulting device will be that it can be demonstrated to do work independently of being plugged into the wall. Add steam production and a generator that refurbishes the battery, and some electrical devices that it provides power for – and time – and this would go a long ways toward cooling skepticism from the peanut gallery.

    I imagine a public demonstration in which Rossi sets up out of doors in a park somewhere, far from the grid, after pulling it out of his trunk and runs lights and fans for several days. Maybe a loud stereo playing, say… Negramaro, too – just so there is no doubt. He can say, ‘See – nothing up my sleeve…’ (…and lastly through a hogshead of realfire…).

    This demonstration would be singularly unsatisfying for scientists and engineers in that It would say nothing exacting regarding *how many* watt-hours it generates in addition to powering itself. But, there are still many out here who would be shocked that it produces enough to power even itself. If he wants to convince muggles – run some incandescent lights, some house fans, and a stereo outside continuously for a few days. Make it be clearly outrageous compared to the battery supplying the input. The ‘just how many’ question could be answered later.

  • This is getting a bit confusing. There must have been fundamental changes in the system since the introduction of the E-Cat X / QuarkX.

    (1) December 15 2015 (http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=34#comment-1143061):
    Q: Could you perhaps tell us whether the E-Cat X is producing AC or DC?
    AR: DC, that obviously can be inverted into AC with the inverters.

    (2) Today:
    Q: You say that the electrical production from the QuarkX is alternating current (AC) — has this always been the case?
    AR: yes

    • Steve D

      Pulsing DC? Possibly in step with a modulating field?

    • Andreas Moraitis

      My two cents: A voltage is applied periodically to the QX. This voltage accelerates charge carriers (electrons and ad-/absorbed protons) in opposite directions. The electrons can both enter the reactor and leave it through the wires without limitations. In contrast to that, the protons cannot leave the reactor. Therefore, the above mentioned motion will be inversed as soon as the external voltage disappears. This causes a short-time current that can be ‘tapped’ via the wires, provided that the control system is appropriately designed. Ideally, one would use either pulsed DC or square wave AC with gaps between the phases of different polarity. The electric output that could be ‘harvested’ in the gap phases would be (roughly) complementary to the input. So both AC and DC might be possible.

  • Miles

    I guess next month he’ll hook up a wind turbine to the QX and then the following month a pedal powered bike to make a few comparisons. Any more delays??? Yes, the battery does work, it’s a battery, that’s what they’re designed to do.

    I wonder what the currently biggest delay or issue is with the QX??

  • Gia’

    if this system’s feedback energy need is carrying the information battery feed wound’t work, doesn’t matter the energy convertion, the matter, if that is tha case, has to find a solution in the domain of the time, and specifically here you might go for some tunnelling, just one more guess
    Gia’

  • Bob Matulis

    Long overdue. Would be a good development.

  • Axil Axil

    The activating stimulus as defined by update 2 of Rossi’s patent states that a high voltage (50,000 TO 100,000 VOLTS) electrostatic potential is required to activate the LENR reaction. The knowhow for the generation of this potential using a lithium battery is of interest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVW0CvgSRto

    The high voltage potential generated here is 60 kilovolts. This is right in the sweet spot for Rossi’s stimulus requirement.

    • Gerard McEk

      Yes, it’s extremely easy to generate high voltages with batteries. The orientation of the electrostatic field (lateral or radial) may play a role.

      • Axil Axil

        From what Rossi has described as the configuration of the “fuse” like: QuarkX reactor, the high voltage wires would be connected at each end of the “fuse”. The spark gap requirement would defined the length of the tube to be about a minimum of 2 centimeters for a 50 kv spark gap.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      BTW such spark discharges generate very fine dust (= nanoparticles).

    • Tom Ridell

      Sorry, that is not anywhere near 400kv, Those cheap HV modules made in China are always labeled at ridiculously high voltages to help sales, just like stun guns are. it’s only producing about 25-30kv. Discharges of this type at normal air pressure are (ballpark) 25kv per inch. A 400kv spark is over a foot long. You can easily verify it with an HV probe and a voltmeter.

  • Whatever electrical input he normally uses to power the QX can be replicated with a large enough battery and the right intermediate equipment/conditioners.

    So I don’t think there’s any question that it’s a practical idea. There’s just some engineering to get right.

    • roseland67

      G,

      Apparently it does not appear to be current dependent, only voltage?