Rossi: Using Graphene for Direct Electricity Production with the QuarkX (Update: Not Thermoelectric)

Those following the story of the QuarkX, Andrea Rossi’s latest version of the E-Cat, will remember that at one point he said they had been able to produce electricity directly from the device, but it was in relatively small amounts in comparison to the heat generated. More recently he has said that he considered the best way to generate electricity from the QuarkX was in the traditional manner, i.e. using the heat of the QuarkX to create steam to drive turbines.

Today, however, he has added some more information which suggests some new progress. Here are some Q&As from the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Tom Berroa
March 15, 2017 at 9:20 PM
Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:
Are you still working also on the direct production of electricity from the Rossi Effect?
Thank you if you can answer,
Tom

Andrea Rossi
March 16, 2017 at 8:11 AM
Tom Berroa:
Yes, with very interesting results with a new configuration.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Gerard McEk
March 16, 2017 at 12:24 PM
Dear Andrea,
Your answer to Tom Berroa makes us obviously very curious. Until before you said that you would further develope the QuarkX for heat production, because that was the most efficient way to employ its energy production.
Do you now see the new development of direct electricity production as a feasible direction again?
Thank you and kind regards, Gerard.

Andrea Rossi
March 16, 2017 at 4:27 PM
Gerard McEk:
Yes, due to the use of graphene, that we are working upon.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi and his team seem to be moving in ever new directions with the QuarkX, which he seems to consider superior in many ways to the original E-Cat. Rossi has reported that he is able to achieve temperatures well above 1000 degrees C with the QuarX, and has said that so far none of the reactors (some of which he says have been in use for about a year now) have been recharged with fuel. Rossi has not provided many specific details of the COP for the QuarkX, except when he provided an internal test report last year which showed a COP of around 200.

If all he has reported regarding the heat alone can be confirmed, it would make the QuarkX an exceptional invention. Adding a stable, useable means of generating electricity directly from the QuarkX would make it even more remarkable. Graphene is often reported as being the material of the future, with its exceptional conductive properties, so it is interesting to see that Rossi is exploring it in connection with the QuarkX.

However, we still await the QuarkX’s official introduction and verified measurements, and I suppose we should not get too excited about it until that time.

UPDATE: (March 17, 2017)

I asked Andrea Rossi on the JONP whether they were using graphene to generate electricity via thermo-electric means, and this was his reply:

Andrea Rossi
March 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
Frank Acland:
Not exactly: we are using the high conductivity properties of graphene to recover the electricity produced directly inside the QuarkX. It is an experimental phase. Now we know and have measured the electricity produced by the QuarkX and we are experimenting how to harness it efficiently.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • sam

    Claud

    May 31, 2017 at 9:12 PM

    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Did you decide the color of the QuarkX, at least for the presentation?
    Cheers
    Claud

    Translate

    Andrea Rossi

    June 1, 2017 at 6:26 AM

    Claud:
    Green.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Omega Z

    You need to convert the energy to electrons 1st. Copper wire will follow.

  • sam

    Gian Luca
    March 21, 2017 at 9:00 AM
    Good morning Andrea,

    Is it possible to know how is compose, now, your Team(*)?
    (*)Team operating on Qx.

    Thanks

    Andrea Rossi
    March 21, 2017 at 10:25 AM
    Gian Luca:
    3 engineers, 1 Physicist, 2 technicians, me.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • Steve D

    CF/LENR is 12 months away. Always has been, always will be. 😉

  • artefact
  • Andreas Moraitis

    Correct. Muons are not electrons. The Steemit page is also wrong in this regard.

  • Steve D

    He is probably not wiring each quark as such. The difficulties, (ie with 1000’s of quarks), of this has been discussed before and hence the electric quark would be hard to implement in this way. Rossi could be using double sided printed circuit board type construction with two graphene planes separated by an insulating ceramic layer or otherwise physically separated. The quark package would be redesigned with top and bottom electrodes or with side electrodes, or maybe with concentric rings . The secret too could be with the quark socket and how it attaches with the graphene plane. Rossi has said quark replacement is done like changing a fuse.

  • Omega Z

    No need to believe in what Rossi said. According to Focardi, Rossi had built many hundreds of reactors by early 2011.

    We saw images of at least a dozen of the syeel flanged hot cats. 6 in the 6 cylinder drum alone. These are the ones tbat Darden inferred cost 1000’$ each.

    When developing the alumina dog-bone, Darden said they built dozens of them that exploded before getting it right.

    Not that it probably matters, but, Christos Stremmenos built a reactor and used Rossi’s fuel mix and achieved COP greater then 1. I believe Giuseppe Levi did as well.

    • Zephir

      Well, Levi fuc*ed the COP measurements in Lugano report completely. So I wouldn’t anybody in LENR research to 100% without replication.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Axil Axil

    1879: Thomas Edison crowns 14 months of testing with an incandescent electric light bulb that lasts 13½ hours.

    Arc light had been developed and was beginning to be deployed but it was bright and harsh. Edison wanted a invent a light with a softer glow obtained when electricity passes through a filament and heats it up until it glows.

    Edison figured he and the 40 researchers at his Menlo Park, New Jersey, development lab could come up with a good incandescent bulb in three or four months in 1878. MAking an assumption that a incandescent light would be easy to invent, he prematurely announced that he’d come up with the bulb, stock in gaslight companies took a dive.

    Edison’s lab put a lot of effort into making a bulb with a platinum filament, but that work went nowhere, because platinum has a relatively low resistance. But gas bubbles in the platinum had led Edison to develop an efficient vacuum pump to remove the air from the inside of his bulbs. And that created a new opportunity: carbon.

    Edison pushed hard on his research assistants, whom he more or less affectionately called “muckers.” After testing hundreds of materials, they baked a piece of coiled cotton thread until it was all carbon. Inside a near-vacuum bulb, it stayed alight for more than half a day. The “three or four month” project had taken 14 months.

    So, what we see here is Edison leveraging profits from one invention to finance the next, announcing a product well before it’s completed, dodging and defending intellectual-property disputes, missing a big deadline, working his development staff feverishly, unveiling a prototype in a splashy and impressive event, and still needing more time before it was actually available to end users — in select markets, of course.

    Edison is now a hero of invention. What Rossi is doing has been done before. Nothing succeeds like success. Like Edison and the lightbulb, if the E-cat works, all will be forgiven and forgotten over time. Rossi will be another added to the lists of the heroes of invention.

    • Sean

      Just shows how much work is needed after the initial invention. Nothing is easy or quick. But persistence pays off. Patience is a virtue. All good things are worth waiting for. Wither it be this LENR technology or a newer yet undiscovered technology, I am sure there is more to come in the near future such as discovery’s of heavier elements far beyond what we have now. There is a similar story like Edison, about an inventor called Joseph Swan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Swan It seems that parallel inventions are made in different parts of the world on a similar time scale. Whats good about this, is that there are certainly to be others whom must be producing or have produced LENR / ZPE energy systems and is yet unknown to us. I hope they will come forward perhaps on this site.

      • Zephir

        You’re right, Rossi may end like Swan quite easily and even from the very same reason: the USA don’t like to pay for European inventions.

  • sam

    Marco Serra
    March 18, 2017 at 6:00 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    I’m very excited about the news that the QuarkX has the possibility of being introduced with the production of electricity. As always I’m very impatient and curious about the timing. Please be patient with me.

    1- Are you already experimenting the electricity production ?

    2- If yes, are there any chances that you can show also this feature during the first presentation of the QuarkX ?

    3- Will this aplication delay the presentation of the QuarkX?

    God bless you
    Marco Serra

    Andrea Rossi
    March 18, 2017 at 7:18 AM
    Marco Serra:
    1- yes. The use of graphene has improved the efficiency and makes promising the possibility of a direct co-generation of heat and electricity.
    2- I do not think we will be ready with this application by that time
    3- no, the direct production of electricity is ancillary. Initially all the energy, included the direct electricity, will be turned into heat and I think the presentation that we’ll make after the end of the litigation will be limited to a system to produce heat, leaving to the eventual Carnot cycle the duty to produce also electricity.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • US_Citizen71

    I do not see anything really out of the ordinary here other than his candor. He is edisonian in his approach to invention, has admitted to producing hundreds of reactors in the past. The sigma 5 test appears to be a durability test, so while you await time to go by wouldn’t you experiment?

  • Miles

    It feels like a stall tactic to keep on coming up with, now graphene, to prevent the product from coming out. He should atleast release a video is show in the quark-X in Self sustained mode. Give us something to see!!! I’m getting tired of upbeat words.

  • Mylan

    I just hope this won’t be another “Now we have to do a lot of basic research again, we can not introduce the Quark-X into the market, the Quark-Z is the way to go”…

  • Zephir
  • kenko1

    I wonder if it could be retrofitted to an E-cat or Hot-cat. Somebody ask Rossi….see what he sez.

  • AdrianAshfield

    Andrea Rossi has oscillated between large and small E-Cats, settling on the very smallest. The speculation is that the small ones are easier to control.
    A side effect of this is that they are cheap and he has probably set up a number of test beds to experiment with different things. It doesn’t seem in his nature to just set up three and sit and watch them as they near sigma 5.
    Possibly he has developed a better theory of how they work but one thing is clear: we have to wait until he demonstrates what he has this Summer. Speculation is just that.

  • Gerard McEk

    Just some speculation.
    Assume that the QuarkX indeed emits alpha particles (positively charged), but also muons (negatively charged) then you need thin well conducting graphene ‘gate’ to collect the alpha’s and a more massive (tungsten?) ‘anode’ to collect the muons (fast beta’s) outside and insulated of the gate. Between the gate and the anode builds a voltage and it can be used for direct current.
    Maybe these electrodes are also used to screen the environment against these ionizing particle radiation.
    Remark: Andrea has never admitted that muons are being produced by the QuarkX.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hi Gerard

      he has not admitted to Muons – but could there be some other level of ‘heavy electrons’ in play as per the Clean Planet patent?

      • Gerard McEk

        I guess that heavy electrons (or fast electrons as I called them) and muons are the same.
        Nevertheless, my speculation still holds after a question of Frank about if thermoelectric properties of graphene were used:

        Andrea Rossi
        March 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
        Frank Acland:
        Not exactly: we are using the high conductivity properties of graphene
        to recover the electricity produced directly inside the QuarkX. It is an
        experimental phase. Now we know and have measured the electricity
        produced by the QuarkX and we are experimenting how to harness it
        efficiently.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

    • Rene

      Oh gosh Axil will be happy to see another person suggest muons are generated by Rossi’s LENR+. This paper suggests graphene with local defects has strong interactions and may have good muon capture properties.

      http://www.isis.stfc.ac.uk/groups/muons/meetings/aramini-abstract14540.pdf

      • Gerard McEk

        So, we should not have have CH defects in the graphene to keep my speculation up ;).
        Interesting article though, thanks Rene.

  • Mark

    two things.

    1) he hasn’t said he is using the graphene in a thermo-electric capacity for the generation
    2) it seems weird that he would just say ‘graphene’ – would it not help competitors?

    I’m still a believer, It’s just weird how he gave up that bit of information so easily, seems something he should have kept to himself.

  • Zephir

    Andrea Rossi has weakness for thermoelectric generators. But he is also claiming many things and actual reality is way more modest. The conversion of heat into electricity with graphene would be frontier research by itself and I’m pretty sure, Rossi has neither technological, neither personal capacity for it.

  • Sean

    I have always thought about near 99% thermal to electric converters. Though it was been pointed out by a member on this board that only 80% can be theoretically derived. However I am thinking out of the box or the future of things to come. As heat is a vibration of atoms / molecules, the present way to generate electricity is by the use TEG’s (Heat to Cold differential semiconductors). But what if those same atoms carry a magnetic field on there own? or could we attach some magnetism to this vibration. Similar to an armature, lets have micro scaled graphene style coils with theses little magnetised atoms or molecules buzzing around or by forces of rotation exciting the coil and pumping the electrons down the conductor. This way we pump electrons and any heat losses or differentials are dissipated by the electric motors or electrical equipment you are driving. Possibly super cooled graphene motors could be developed for amazing power and efficiency gains. Any thoughts?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    This paper proposes a method to convert the kinetic (sic) energy of alpha particles to electricity, using “stacks of graphene nanocapacitors”:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cplx.21427/abstract

    90% conversion efficiency (if confirmed) would be huge. However, the described device produces only 22 mW. It would have to be scaled up by several orders of magnitude.

    • US_Citizen71

      The device would have to inside the core as well to convert the kinetic energy of alpha particles. It sounds like a great use for low energy nuclear waste, but I’m not sure it is a good match for what we have been told of the QuarkX.

  • Rene

    Wolf. Although an enticing claim, I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then here’s a mock up
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a9a435d747a05c25d9707a19ea9ee180482af1151aea0c270aa64a1906459d67.jpg

  • Navdrew

    A very high thermoelectric coefficient is predicted for various graphene device structures.Google:
    “thermoelectroelectric effect in graphene devices” and a you’ll see a number of technical papers that have been published.

  • Old_Skeptical

    How many times does Rossi get to rub the magic bottle before the fairy tale wish is granted? ——- An alternative power source in our lifetime!

  • Bob Greenyer

    It does have desirable properties

    • Rene

      That’s a nice way to say it. May it be.