Rossi Goes to North Carolina — Working Towards Settlement?

Andrea Rossi today posted this on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Andrea Rossi
January 18, 2017 at 10:12 AM
JPR:
Today I am in Raleigh, N.C., with my Attorneys, but from my Team the update id good.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

It’s an interesting comment, since Rossi is normally in the Miami and reports is working hard on his QuarkX, along with the court case. Raleigh North Carolina, of course, is the headquarters for Cherokee and Industrial Heat, and the fact that Rossi says he is there in person with his attorneys may be quite significant.

A document in the court docket from January 13th, written by Thomas E. Scott, a Miami-based mediator, reports that a mediation meeting was held on January 12th between the two parties, and that the parties “negotiated in good faith,” but that no mediation was reached. He did say that he hoped they could continue to work on continued mediation in the future. (see document 117 here)

Now, six days later, Rossi and his legal team are in North Carolina. I would think that it would be normal for the attorneys for the two parties would be in contact frequently, perhaps meeting in person, but for the Plaintiff (and possibly counter-plaintiffs) to go to a meeting would seem to indicate that there was something more than legal jousting going on. I think it would take a lot to take Rossi so far away from his QuarkX reactor in this period of its development.

Of course, as with most things connected with the E-Cat story, there is not much detail to go on here. But there is maybe a sign of some kind of thaw going on.

  • sam

    Tom Conover
    January 24, 2017 at 6:13 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    May I inquire if the heat transfer again had to be increased? Thank you for your answers to Frank, and the many others that openly try to encourage you in your work.

    Tom

    Andrea Rossi
    January 24, 2017 at 6:15 PM
    Tom Conover:
    Yes, we found a very brilliant solution.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    JPR
    January 24, 2017 at 3:30 PM
    Update?

    Andrea Rossi
    January 24, 2017 at 4:00 PM
    JPR:
    Got a good restart,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Frank Acland
    January 24, 2017 at 1:44 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    When you say the QuarkX is acting a ‘little different’ now, does this mean:

    1) You had to repair the reactor
    2) You had to adjust the control system
    3) The power output is lower
    4) The COP is lower
    5) The QuarkX is less stable
    6) You had to start over on your quest for Sigma 5
    7) Something else

    Thank you for what you can tell us.

    Best wishes,

    Frank Acland

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    January 24, 2017 at 3:56 PM
    Frank Acland:
    1- yes
    2- yes
    3- no
    4- no
    5- no
    6- yes
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Axil Axil

    Andrea Rossi
    January 20, 2017 at 5:00 PM
    Jude Rabalais:
    It depends upon the amount of work we do for the litigation, that in these last days has escalated enormously. The organization of a demo well done takes a lot of time and work.

    Probably we will have to delay the presentation of the QuarkX until after the verdict of the litigation, that is expected by July. I matured this thought today returning from Raleigh, where work for the litigation has been made.

    The presentation of the QuarkX must be perfect and to make it perfect I have to work on it with maximum focus, that now I have not. I am under too much pressure. I must first win one battle, then make the next and the litigation is now.

    Probably we will start in March to receive visits of experts to make together with them closed doors measurements and tests.
    This is the idea I formulated today examining the situation.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Advice for A.R. from axil

    The best way to convince a jury that your system works is to prove it in public before the trial begins. Delaying proof of performance just improves the case for the defence. Put up now Rossi or face the eventual consequences. Put your system on 60 Minutes and put it through its paces. Show the world what it can really do; the sooner the better. Get the media on your side. Put the buzz about the E-Cat on every lip. Nothing succeeds more than success. Success breeds more success.

  • sam

    I agree Robb.

  • sam

    If that is the reason why would he even say he was in N.C.
    And then report problems with
    the QuarkX from there.
    And then say he was going to
    have the test after the Court Case.
    Even though I like following A.R. blog I think it might be
    better to be like Mills and Godes and give out less
    information.

  • Omega Z

    Depositions are rarely made public prior to the trial. Depositions tend to be used as Gotcha devices. In court, people rarely know anything about the plaintiff and defendant. When both parties appear credible, small details matter.

    Lawyer be like-
    “You said you were not there Friday night, but out of town.
    However, in your sworn deposition you said… Gotcha, you lied. Credibility becomes questionable.

    Due to the bias views of many here against Rossi, Most overlook statements by Darden. Such as excess heat being unfounded, but Dardens own engineer stating otherwise. Note when judging someone, you also need to look at things in chronological order. Such as Dardens actions preceding Rossi’s actions.

    In Texas, a man literally beat another man to death. While some claimed murder, the man was never charged because of what happened preceding his actions. He caught the other man sexually assaulting his 3 year old child. His actions were “Justifiable”…

  • Omega Z

    ->”Rossi didn’t meet the terms of the contract.”

    Did you read the original contract?

    Darden/IH were to provide the 1 year GPT. Darden/IH were to provide a Customer. Darden/IH were supposed to get all the permits for the GPT.

    Darden didn’t complete the contract. Darden “NEVER” intended to complete the contract and pay the $89m if it could be avoided.

    Darden was busy filling patents on Rossi’s IP. Don’t you find it strange filling patents on a supposed non working technology.

    Darden wasn’t pushing Rossi to do more tests to prove the technology. He was pushing Rossi to build new configurations of industrial use design. The 250KW reactor. The “SIX Cylinder” Reactor/Boiler etc, etc… This makes it appear the technology works and Darden was only concerned of adapting it for actual industrial use.

    Awful strange goings on for a technology Darden claims is unfounded.

    • Brent Buckner

      Please let me know: from where did you get “Darden/IH were to provide a Customer”? I have looked at the License Agreement (Section 5), and in the Amendments. Did I miss it there, or did you get it elsewhere?

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is happening right now on a gargantuan scale as one administration leaves office (not saying where) – there is an unprecedented move to cover up some very dark things.

    This is why I tend to archive important LENR work immediately and will soo propose a way we can all work to give persistence. If you want a heads up – look at steemit.com and IPFS. I’ll say it here first, FB / Twitter / Reddit etc are dead, people just are not in the future yet.

  • sam

    I.H. must think something can be worked out between them and A.R.
    or why would they have even considered hosting ICCF 21.

    • LilyLover

      To preoccupy a presence in an area with to-be-bought-up IP from non-Rossi sources to fake their visionary status.

  • sam

    Is it I.H. that does not want you to believe what A.R. says or just
    D.W. himself.
    Has T.D. said that Dewey speaks for I.H.?

  • I have to admit my assessment hasn’t advanced much. I expected the result of the one-year 1MW test to be of crucial importance, but since it was never released, and also disputed, we haven’t come much further. In the end, the only thing that counts here are conclusive and repeatable experimental results, and we still wait for them.

  • That is correct. I probably didn’t consider that a settlement but rather Rossi giving up the lawsuit and IH winning. But of course you’re right.

  • Holmid zapping hydrogenated foil with laser pulses and calculating a COP 450 in the form of a flood of high speed kaons (and pions and muons).
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169895

    Gee I wonder if any exotic science is happening in hydrogen loaded metal lattices? Maybe we ought to look into that.

    • Axil Axil

      Will you begin looking for muons in your experiments?

      • Are you asking me or Holmid?

        • Axil Axil

          Holmlid has invented a peer reviewed muon detector that he has used extensively and regularly. I am asking you who may now understand that this method is so important to copy.

          • I don’t run experiments.

          • Stephen

            Is the detector easy to build and the method easy to replicate?

            I must admit I’m also curious if muons ars observed and if so if their energies, direction etc can give us better insight into the process that generates them. Even a negative result would be interesting as it might suggest related but different processes occur at different energies or different levels of disruption. I know you have said as much many times. It would be interesting to see for sure though if its possible.

            Unfortunately I’m also not an experimenter.

  • Billy Jackson

    that still does not invalidate the technology.. they just may want out of the deal now.

  • Industrial Heat seems to be set up to be a sandbagging patent troll.

    • Omega Z

      You are very close if not on target to reality.

      Darden never intends to manufacture anything. Only license the technology without a competitor. The contract was written to make this a reality. Rossi has to give Darden 1st option to buy additional license zones. i.e. Darden has control of the price. There was only (1) loophole that Darden missed in the contract. And it’s BIG.

      It doesn’t prevent Andrea Rossi from starting up his own manufacturing operation.

      Who would have thought an old man would do that?

      Darden would no longer be able to charge what the market would bear(green/fossil competitors), but would have to compete against LENR. It really is all about the money.

      Note, Dardens license is for manufacture and sales in certain areas. I don’t know if that would apply to Rossi. Regardless, if Siemens, G.E. or others were building a power plant, they can bring in components from anywhere in the world. Such agreements as Darden/Rossi’s do not apply. It would require a Federal law to prevent this. In which case the voting public be like, Why you make my electricity cost more

  • roseland67

    Arnd,

    Do you believe this?

  • US_Citizen71

    If they had kept to the contract it would be theirs to use. But, they never paid the final installment so the IP is no longer theirs to use. IH knew about the HotCat and the QuarkX before they made the choice not to pay. So I do not think this is a likely scenario.

  • Brent Buckner

    I believe that Section 13.4 of the License Agreement (c.f.http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf ) makes the License Agreement an agreement for that newer tech too.

  • sam

    Keerthi Redd
    January 19, 2017 at 2:20 AM
    Dear Dr Rossi:
    We notice that you are ignoring all the debates in the blogs related to the litigation: why?

    Andrea Rossi
    January 19, 2017 at 9:36 AM
    Keerthi Redd:
    The proper place to discuss issues regarding the litigation is the Court, where evidence is deposited. Besides, my Attorneys have forbidden to me to talk od any issue related to the litigation in the blogs.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    January 19, 2017 at 9:33 AM
    Michael:
    Maybe.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    JPR
    January 19, 2017 at 4:56 AM
    Update?

    Andrea Rossi
    January 19, 2017 at 9:32 AM
    JPR:
    Right now I am in Raleigh, NC, but from the factory I have been informed of a problem.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Karl Venter

      There goes the FEB demo
      “but at the factory I have been informed of a problem”

  • Bob Greenyer
    • georgehants

      Bob, with the millions of pages released, I think they as usual would all have been checked ten times to make sure that nothing honest or worthwhile is released, or all the Whistle-blowers who help people know the Truth would not be put in jail.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Sometimes people with the worst intentions let things slip and there is a lot of sometimes in this number of documents.

    • artefact

      “temporarily unavailable. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please try again later.”
      Hey, not all at once 😉

      • Bob Greenyer

        haha

        • Stephen

          I guess the panicked. The were expecting a whole load of searches for Aliens and UFO’s but I guess after your post suddenly got 10,000 searches for LENR 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            haha – yeh… Tie everyone up, but it backfired

    • In case you’re all wondering, “Stargate” was code name of the U.S. government’s first official Remote Viewing or psychic espionage project. (The documents here are referred to as Stargate 1 or SG1.) It later was run by the DIA at Fort Meade but started out at the CIA. Research was conducted by SRI in Palo Alto. And some of you wanted me to leave this out of my CF videos on YouTube?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks for the detail, and never be shamed into not speaking your mind, even if one is wrong in the end, being open is the fastest way to iterate to the truth.

  • Jonnyb

    I just hope Woodford is still involved with Rossi in some way after this.

    • Woodford has invested in IH, not in Rossi.

      • Jonnyb

        I know Barty, that is why I am hoping Woodford is still involved with Rossi after all this. There is still a possibility that Woodford has further invested or made other agreements directly with Rossi, I hope so.

  • Rossi Fan

    Has any of you considered the possibility that IH might be working on behalf of the DoD or CIA? They sent IH to find out if Rossi is real. Ha ha! If that’s the case he is going to pull a Walesa or Yeltsin. When the US bribes an elected president they go nuts. Start talking nonsense. Not that Rossi made much sense from the get-go. The matter will settle with more cash than just the $10M front money and a gag order. End of story.

    • Sam

      I have considered the possibility that IH is not a CIA front company. In case people not realised, IH who are set to arrange a ICCF are taking money from individuals who openly speak of wetwork.

  • LilyLover

    Avatar
    LilyLover
    an hour ago
    It seems that dear Dr. is happy.
    Looks like, the obviousness of Rossi’s E-Cat’s success has become well known and unkillable enough that the likes of Woodford, through their reputation, are baring it all to the industry that TD and Cherokee are second rate people. To avoid sinking the Cherokee mothership through loss of reputation/clients, they might have decided to pay off 100M plus losing the IP is better than losing the IP and ALSO losing the 2B + personal reputations.

    This is another way, the competent Brits influence the investment market and “keep’em honest”.

    I.e. The investment community assigns more weight to Woodford’s ‘due-diligence’ than the purchasing power of 2B by an American investment fund / the cabal of T Dirtyden.

    Summary: To avoid the backlash that would swiftly eradicate the Cherokee, the Cherokee is coughing out 100M for the mistake of hiring TD.

    They wanted to eliminate Rossi, not knowing the power of truth that could down the goliath and the US Patent-Lawyers.

    Graceful Rossi, good. Fake charity Cherokee and Tardy Dirtyden, bad. Good wins by the grace of Rossi’s goodness.

    Call me delusional! That’s OK!!

    • Brokeeper

      Very plausible, not delusional. Scores of replication can’t be all wrong. The truth of it all is compelling to even the casual observer. Good logic!

      • Billy Jackson

        agreed.. for an investment firm as big as Cherokee.. this is one place they cant afford to get wrong, reputation means everything and this has a very high chance of backfiring on them.

        • Omega Z

          Cherokee is done in the brown field investments. They are currently just managing what was done previously. Several of those previous projects have went bankrupt. Don’t worry. Darden keeps a distance between himself and these losses. He’s like a stock broker. If you make money, he makes money. If you lose money. He still makes money.

          If I were to place a bet, it would be that Darden has recouped every cent he has invested in E-cat and much more.

    • LION

      I think this Financial Times article had a big impact.

      http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/11/26/financial-times-reports-on-woodfords-investment-in-industrial-heat-and-cold-fusion/

      It must of caused many Industry people to make serious inquiries, that has consequences.

  • Gerard McEk

    It is clear that neither IH nor AR will profit of full disclosure of the Ecat technology, that may happen if this civil process continues. Therefore a settlement can have value for both parties and mediation may work.
    Maybe also the QuarkX plays a role in this….
    Just crossed my mind:
    Would it be possible that the whole legal affaire is just set-up to be part of a publication stunt?

    • Brokeeper

      No, I don’t think so. Once the demonstration is completed, it will be hard to deny it’s world implication benefits to any future juror. Who then would want to be remembered for impeding it’s progress (except the oil companies).

  • Omega Z

    Dardens own engineer has acknowledged excess heat.

  • My2c

    Did Rossi bring with him the magic QuarkX ?
    He just needs to demonstrate that a QuarkX can boil a fish pond, then I am sure Darden will write a cheque.

    Rossi would only need one conclusive test of an e-cat/QuarkX by a well known, reputable institute (not by some kitchen or garage tinkerer), then his name would fill all news headlines, and every jury would decide in his favor.

    So, why doesn’t he take that easy path?
    (Easy only when the e-cat works a claimed)

    • Omega Z

      Let me guess.

      You just arrived here from another world and have no clue how things work here on Earth.

    • Jonnyb

      If Rossi did this then the price would go up considerably!!

    • Billy Jackson

      he did have one.. the 31 day test.. but of course its dismissed because he was on the same planet as the testers thus tainted the test

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Boiling the bond isn’t quite enough, also the knowhow must be transferred to Darden if he’s to pay.

  • I wouldn’t assume this is about a settlement conference.

    Rossi just finally provided all the discovery documents required of him. I would instead guess that this trip is about IH either formally deposing Rossi on some of the contents or informally clearing up any related questions with both legal teams present.

    • Obvious

      That is a better guess.
      I don’t think there is any chance of an out-of-court settlement. This is almost certainly going all the way to a jury, and it will be ugly.

      • SG

        It might be ugly, but I think it is for the best. Better to out the information as best as possible so that the community can feel like they can move on, whatever the outcome.

    • Stephen

      Given the timing and some comments around the weekend I would also guess they are discussing the documents in the disclosure, rather than settlement as such. It’s likely they bring information that has repercussions on all the points raised before so it makes perfect sense to me they need to discuss them. I suppose it’s possible they might come an agreement but that it’s not the main purpose my impression is the disclosure was a big thing for AR that was not easy for him to do but hopefully he is relieved now it’s done. I would also guess that the new information is very hard and tough work for both sides to discuss. If they can talk to each other honestly frankly and openly though I hope better understanding is achieved I’d respect both sides for that.

  • WaltC

    According to the 6/29/16 schedule, we’re nearing the end of the fact discovery period (2/17/17). Possibly they want AR nearby for that.

    Also, question– are depositions part of fact discovery, or does that come later? (I’d love to see those transcripts, but, for many reasons, we probably never will.)

    • Omega Z

      Depositions wont be public until after they go to court.

  • roseland67

    I never thought that this would go to trial,
    Either:
    Rossi and his products do not work as stated and Darden et al: were hoodwinked for 10 million by a scam artist,
    or:
    Rossi and his products work as stated and Darden et al: just threw away a license to print money.

    Neither of these scenarios are something either side wants to be public.

    And you all know where I stand

    • Rossi Fan

      Most likely, I give it a 99% chance, the outcome of this mess will be that the world will never know how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop because there will be a gag order following a settlement. Both parties will insist on it. Rossi then will want to but can’t say anything further.

  • I don’t know if a settlement would make me glad or sad. On one hand it would be a recognition that the E-Cat technology is valid—why on Earth would IH otherwise agree to a settlement? On the other there’s probably a lot of evidence that we will never see. I would really be interested to see both parties put all evidence on the table to get a clear understanding of what was really going on, beyond all assumptions and beyond what I would expect to be attempts to manipulate the public opinion through well chosen bits of ‘information.’

    • Byron McDonald

      I agree all evidence on the table as a function of this civil litigation would be preferable for the benefit of the development of LENR as a whole. Yet, I cannot but wonder at all the side chain events unfolding with others competent in the Art. We are aware only of the public aspect of LENR. With Rossi it is a subject of controversy which is even more fascinating. Meanwhile, Brillouin and BrLP are advancing their claims and continue to raise funds in a race for commercialization. It would be naive to assume these are the only developments underway. Are we seeing only 1/10 of the iceberg?

    • Publius

      Mats, your comments make me sad. I cannot consider you a journalist at all because you seem incapable of even considering Rossi might be a fraud. A possible settlement in no indicates the Rossi technology works. Guilty and wronged parties settle all the time for various reasons including saving on attorney fees and legal headwinds. Even Rossi somehow winning this case does not prove his technology works, it simply proves his legal strategy worked.

      • Billy Jackson

        No offense but i think you are putting the burden of proof for a technology on a reporter is a bit strange. One of the concepts we entertain here is the very likely possibility that the e-cat works in one form or another as advertised. While we may not have the exact word for word inner workings of the e-cat.. It is unfair to Mats that you make such blanket statements considering his personal hands on work and reporting of his findings or beliefs..

        Their always exists the possibility that Rossi is mistaken, or yes a fraud. But until proven that this is so.. It lies on us to at least give the man the courtesy to prove himself even if it does take a bit of time. I believe you will find that this board is open to a lot of diverse discussions.. we just prefer to keep an open mind about potentials without falling into the trap of thinking we know what we know damn the evidence.

        • Publius

          My whole point is I think it’s irresponsible for a journalist to be opining that possible settlement talks means the Rossi technology is valid. That is not reporting the facts. It is speculating on rumors and perpetuating what seems to be a personal agenda to defend Rossi.

      • Publius, as I commented above, it’s correct that a settlement would not necessarily mean that the E-Cat is valid. Depends on the settlement terms of course, and probably we would never get to know them.

        As far as various possible scenarios I assure you that I’m still open to just about anything. That’s why I would really like to see all available evidence from both parties presented, and I think it will be a shame if everything remains hidden.

        And I repeat—the documents and comments made public so far don’t mean much since they are probably well chosen pieces intended to induce a certain thinking among people looking from outside. Unfortunately.

    • Billy Jackson

      This whole thing has me thinking the fight has been about control of the IP and Technology the entire time. We KNOW that IH has lied because they filed their own patent with a claim of 10+ COP. For all of Rossi’s charm’s and character flaws both good and bad, i just dont think he’s a competent businessman capable of pulling off a global business of the size that we seem to think the e-cat represents.

      I hope Rossi gets everything he’s due, I am still happily waiting for this technology to have its breakout moment and will eagerly watch and wait until we get proof one way or the other.

      • Ged

        That is Woodford’s current stance and view on the matter as well, and why they have not chosen to de-invest with IH, yet. But, much much more to come.

    • LION

      Hi Mats, Great to see you commenting again, hope you are well, please take a look at my posts here:

      http://www.e-catworld.com/2017/01/11/rossi-v-industrial-heat-case-rossis-team-seeks-sanctions-against-ih-and-counsel-for-frivolous-claims/

      you need to go down and press –post more comments– they are posts mostly to myself that I hope others here will find interesting. I am back experimenting again, so I hope in the coming months we can have a private talk, when enough results are in, I feel very positive about this year, it really could be the year of transition to a New way of how we think about our future.
      Wishing you all the BEST for 2017 too.

  • sam

    Good to hear they are at mediation.