QuarkX Demo Thread — Update #1: Rossi Leaning Towards Water Flow Calorimetry

We’ve done this kind of thread in the past for events connected with the E-Cat, so I thought it would not be a bad idea to start a thread connected with the apparently upcoming demonstration of Andrea Rossi’s QuarkX reactor, which he still seems to expect could take place in February, which is now only a month away. So any interesting developments on this topic will be added to this thread

Update #1, Jan 5, 2016:

Here’s a Q&A from the Journal of Nuclear Physics today:

January 5, 2017 at 7:16 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi:
When you will make the demo with the QuarkX, will you adopt calorimetric measurements, or Boltzmann equation, or what?
Thank you if you can answer,
S.

Andrea Rossi
January 5, 2017 at 8:01 AM
Sherman:
We did not decide yet, I think we’ll use calorimetry on a water flow.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi has apparently not made a final decision here, but is leaning towards water flow calorimetry, which I know that some people interested in LENR think is the best way to demonstrate production excess heat. Any system used in an E-Cat demonstration will obviously be scrutinized very carefully. I recall that Defkalion Green Technologies used a water flow calorimetry system in the July 2013 demonstration they streamed live from Milan. Following that experiment, members of Defkalion Europe had numerous questions about the manner in which energy was measured, and eventually published a report that concluded that the experimental protocol used was “not trustworthy.”

So whatever system Rossi chooses to use needs to be carefully considered. Rossi has said that an independent expert will be on hand to take measurements and report them — which will be an important role to fill.

  • sam

    Sven
    January 13, 2017 at 6:49 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Will the calorimetric measurements be easy to understand during the Quarkx presentation?

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    January 13, 2017 at 8:58 AM
    Sven:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • http://extropolitca.blogspot.com Mirco Romanato

    Probably the best way to do so is boiling water. A lot of it.

    “This is the QuarkX, it produce 1 MW of heat at a temperature up to 400°C.
    We will boil 5 metric ton of water
    Liquid water enter –> 400 °C hot steam exit.

    This will require around 2 h 15 m

    After this, if you are not convinced, we will put other 5 metric tons inside and do it again.

    • Steve D

      Does anyone know the quark X configuration for the demonstration eg with only one 20W unit or with a cluster 10,100 etc units? I have also wondered about the break even point for example 3W input (control /drive etc) with 20W out gives COP just over 6. Rossi has said that with more quark units there is no increase the COP which I don’t quite understand. This means also for 2 quarks input is 6W for 40W output and so on. I would have expected with common drive equipment there is some input power saving, eg for one quark this might have a COP1. Perhaps I’ve missed the point? If the demonstration with one unit can show a COP> 1, then very well done indeed Mr Rossi. This makes feasible a 20W low power device.

    • Vinney

      Wet and Dry Calorimetry is a guaranteed ‘woody-killer’, the math is hard and only Steam (power generation) Engineers understand it. It may work with the optimal temperature of the QuarkX (similar to the calorimetry of the recent 1MW plant) but no-one will come come home with immediate understanding of the unit’s COP. I say a calibrated variable output pump (digital) with a quantity of water starting at room temperature.
      Start the QuarkX with motionless water, (measurements don’t start until QuarkX get to operational temperature) and then the pump starts slowly.
      Within minutes we will have first indications of Cop, the optimal COP after 30minutes. All pipe sizes depend on the number of QuarkX’s in the configuration being tested. I predict there will only be several (up to 5).
      Obviously optimal COP will come after hours of operation, but this figure will be 95% of the optimal.
      No wet and dry steam to account for.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        I agree. Add static mixers before the inlet and outlet flow temperature sensors and check the flow with a scale, bucket and stopwatch and you have a method that any science-literate person can understand. Very hard to dispute….

  • sam

    clovis a ray
    January 8, 2017 at 1:31 PM
    Hello Dr Rossi.
    I know you are a very busy man. and i want take to much of your time.as you know i have been around since your first public demo and before, I have had an excellent time following your every move, and can say you have handled each move with brilliance and well thought through experiments, i have always believed in your work.
    We have all been waiting for so long to see your new QUARK X, could you give us a little on how you envision how this test will be performed, how big it will be, what part of the world it will take place, you said it will be streaming that’s nice, please take some time and give us a little more about the demo. as it will be coming up fast. who will be in charge of the details, surly that is not to secret. how time fly’s huh .
    Sorry if you have already answered these ? will it be powering something, will it be a new device or one that has already been in use. can your most loyal fans get a preview if we keep it quit for a while, private group of course. of your choice of course, but a private viewing would be great do you have anyone that can manage such a thing. thanks sir and may the Father always have his hand on your shoulder. — from Oklahoma with great admiration.

    Andrea Rossi
    January 8, 2017 at 3:19 PM
    Clovis A. Ray:
    Sorry, this information will be delivered directly during the presentation.
    I did notice your kind support and thank you very much for it.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Not on topic but a neat video.

    https://youtu.be/ZihywtixUYo

  • sam

    JPR
    January 7, 2017 at 5:24 AM
    Update?

    Andrea Rossi
    January 7, 2017 at 6:25 AM
    JPR:
    At the dawn of Saturday January 07 the QuarkX is working well, still on its way toward 5 Sigma.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    January 7, 2017 at 12:00 AM
    Dear Readers:
    Today has been published on the Journal of Nuclear Physics the article
    ” Energy Deficit in Beta Decay Process “, by Dr George J. Chang, Theoretical Physics Department, N.1 Gong, 1st Road, Cyuan Sing.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Drew G.
    January 6, 2017 at 9:04 PM
    Dr. Rossi:

    Do you plan to invite any high level government officials, media notables or industry CEOs to your planned demonstration? Those of us who have followed your work since 2011 are already convinced of the significance of this disruptive technology. It’s time to make it known to the rest of the world. Godspeed Dr. Rossi.

    Drew G.

    Andrea Rossi
    January 6, 2017 at 9:53 PM
    Drew G.:
    We did not yet decide.
    Thank you for your support and kind words. Probably whoever wants in the world will be able to attend in streaming, though.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    January 6, 2017 at 5:03 PM
    Steven N. Jareks:
    Information related to the demo will be given during the demo itself.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Actually, any pictures and demo of the quark-x and how it packaged could make a VERY big splash in regards to LENR. I think the REAL story here is how small these devices are.

    Given from what we know? Rossi’s device is very small, compact and likely VERY easy to build with few moving parts. If COP’s are anything close to Ross’s claim, then such a demo would most certainly be welcome. In fact, it could light a new fire in regards to LENR.

    It is rather simple:
    If this device performs as claimed, then I don’t see why 2017 can’t be the “big” year of LENR.
    Certainly a big “if” here!
    Rossi has a chance to deliver the beef here – I wish him all the best in this coming New Year.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

    “An independent expert.” How often did we hear that from Rossi? And how often it was a old friend of him?

    • Omega Z

      Actually Barty, Anyone who believes for a second that Rossi has something at all is labeled a friend.

      Giuseppe Levi may or may not be Rossi’s friend today, but originally he did not even know Rossi and was brought in by Focardi to help prove Rossi’s device did not work. The two Swedish scientists, Sven Kullander and Hanno Essen also never new Rossi. They like Levi were brought in to test the E-cat.

      You know, most of Rossi’s so called friends appear after the fact. Not prior to the E-cat. So this is how it works. If you were to go to Rossi’s Demo and came away with a positive view, you will quickly be labeled a close Rossi confidant and friend from the inner circle.

  • Rene

    Water flow calorimetry is great, so long as he keeps his hands out of the experiment. There is no point to any of this if the measurement is not conducted by an independent party. Rossi needs to let that happen. If not, then we’re back to having to wait more years for commercial offering.
    My hope is that the energy output is so great, that the signal is so strong as to make it obvious it works strongly and reliably.

    • Vinney

      I agree, and after following ECW for years, I have a novel method for flow calorimetry.
      As LENR is so fickle and can be easily ‘quenched’, a well calibrated variable (digital) flow rate pump, that can also be adapted as a ‘throttle’ for the entire system.
      This to a closed 1 Megalitre water system, starting at room temperature (none of this dry and wet steam calorimetry). All rhe thermals are easily accounted for, ANY known chemical (thermal) reactions would be ruled out in minutes. I think the world Media will be stunned to silence upon such a display.

    • Omega Z

      This is not a test. It is a public demonstration with possibly a couple people confirming any claims. Nothing more.

      If this is a pre-production demo and If you’re a business and interested, contact Leonardo. If an agreement of sale is reached, you place funds into escrow and Leonardo will install the device. If it performs as claimed, then the funds in escrow are released to Leonardo. If it doesn’t perform as claimed, Leonardo will remove the device and the escrow funds are returned to you.

      Everything will be known in a short time. Either it doesn’t work or Leonardo will have orders they can not possibly meet for years.

      • Rene

        Right, so it then it is a con unless definite independent confirmation is made. Rossi has been telling us the “market will tell the truth”, and that’s totally fine – make a product place it out there, people buy then try. Truth quickly gets established. Now he’s changed into demo mode and every demo to date has not gone well, has been tainted. What you described is what he did a number of times to raise cash for himself, and also let people holding the empty bag. I call BS on his game. He needs to show clearly and without question he has something that works and works reliably.

        • Omega Z

          This appears to be the 1st test/demo that Rossi is doing of his own volition. All tests and demo’s prior to this has been at someone elses request. The very 1st was a request by Focardi.

          Focardi even stated this in an interview and that Rossi thought such a public test/demo was far to premature. However, Focardi’s health was failing and Rossi conceded to Focardi’s request. I find it very likely that had Rossi waited until he was ready, it would have been much later and today there may not even be an ECW.

          So, If this Demo is truely at Rossi’s determination, it means he is finally confident it is ready. That is a good sign.

  • http://www.libertynewspost.com/ Liberty Newspost

    Rossi needs to speed up others may catch up with him.

  • https://pissedthefuckoff.wordpress.com/ Mark

    Oh, yeah…Defkalion. The last time I heard about them, they were following Rossi’s prediction of continuing to kick the can down the road, so to speak, probably in hopes that Rossi’s secret will come out. That was a few years back. I wonder what has been happening with those dudes, since then…

  • bfast

    I am one of the “some people” who thinks that water flow is the best calorimetry. I still see the test with Dr. Levi back in 2011 to be the best test so far. He adapted Rossi’s technology for water flow calorimetry. Its simple, its certain, there’s no argument about wet vs dry steam etc.

    • roseland67

      bfast
      I agree,
      must verify the fluid is in fact water, (specific heat and gravity must be measured and confirmed).

      • Warthog

        When it comes directly out of the lab water faucet, you can pretty much be assured that it is water. This was the case with the Levi experiment…none of Rossi’s flow equipment was used.