Rossi: Changing Magnetic Field Can Stop/Slow E-Cat Reaction

Thanks to LT for the following post about a Q&A he had with Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics. I think it raises some interesting issues that could be of interest, especially to replicators.

I posted the following question to Andrea Rossi and got the answer as shown below

Dear Andrea Rossi,

Concerning the working of the ECAT I have the following questions :
1- Is it true that a (changing) magnetic field will stop/slow the low energy nuclear reaction in the ECAT
2- When no magnetic field is present the reaction can occur ?

Andrea Rossi
September 5, 2016 at 7:20 AM
Bert:
1- yes in some configurations
2- this is an object of a patent application on course and I cannot make predisclosure
Warm Regards,
A.R.

As I read Rossi’s comment he confirms that a changing magnetic field can stop the LENR reaction.
It might also explain why so many replication attempts fail. Possibly due to the magnetic field generated by the heating element. So it could useful to use a bifilair wound heating element or two coils with opposite fields in replication attempts.

LT

  • bachcole

    I believe that Mirco is correct about the wind tunnel, but that is merely a vote, not proof. And Kevmorable the adorable is right about CONTROL.

  • Kevmorableᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

    My understanding was that they weren’t the inventors of the wind tunnel, someone else invented it before them. They were just so creative and sharp that they used it to produce real results that were profitable in generating real wings on a real airplane. They also used it to find that the previous luminary in the field, Lilienthal, was simply wrong in his calculations & data when it came to Lift/Drag on curved airfoils.

  • RLittle

    Such experimental observation of static magnetic field by Mr. Rossi is consistent with the theory of RBL. The theory of RBL also explains why changing magnetic field would slow the reaction.

  • david fojt

    Future you explain your picture with 3 circuits to drive a NMR control system ?
    I remember for this we need one simple EM circuit and another one, but 3 no explanation ?
    David FOJT

  • david fojt

    Yes, rotating magnetic help to mix everything together up to curie point then LIH/lLI+H/Lih by bulbles created continue the mixing.
    Therefore may be 2 coils have done by khantal A1 and the last by no resistive wire as pure nickel to dedicaced this for EM control.
    David FOJT

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi September 6, 2016 at 1:47 PM
    Charles:
    Today we completed the test, it has been good.
    Now we pass to a superior level of engagement.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    Frank Acland September 6, 2016 at 7:25 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    Congratulations having passed the recent test with the QuarkX. Can you give any more information about what a ‘superior level of engagement’ is?
    Best wishes, Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi September 6, 2016 at 7:39 PM
    Frank Acland:
    Now we have to organize the production of a module that can go by self, without continue assistance, reliably and safely.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • georgehants

      Another possible reply from Mr. Rossi could be.
      I feel immensely proud to announce that my Research has been successful in confirming a new power source, that I give freely to the World, so that instead of the few Researchers in my organisation spending years trying to perfect it and I become a multi-trillionair, thousands of scientists Worldwide can use this Technology to help save the suffering of millions, of my fellow human beings, all of nature, and the planet.

      • bachcole

        All of these years of hard work of 16 hour days, all of these investors who have risked their fortunes and may not be all that keen about giving it away, with Rossi looking at poverty in his old age, and you think that he should just give it away. George, you really do live in a unicorn world of your own fantasies.

        I wonder, would you promise to support him in his old age after he has given it away? Or do you believe that everyone else should be charitable and make sacrifices but not you.

        • georgehants

          Roger, many thanks for adding your view.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Ah yes, the hot fusion model.

        • georgehants

          Alan, Ah yes, could that be another example of incompetence and corruption by those in positions of power and favour, working against the good of all for the benefit of the few.
          Should the people who ignore the possibilities of Cold Fusion be removed and thrown on the scrap heap.

  • Obvious

    A confidence artist will make any statement she/he believes will get your trust and/or fulfill their goals.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Oh, and deuterium also has a spin.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium_NMR

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah Lesio, if we could just find the right frequency. I had this paddle ball analogy here (from 2013. So not borrowed from Norman Cook).

    “Because the palladium (or nickel) is anchored to the lattice, the Mössbauer effect comes into play.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6ssbauer_effect
    So, the paddle ball analogy is better than the two balls on a spring analogy. The lattice can be thought of as the paddle and the deuterium (or hydrogen) can be thought of as the ball on the rubber band. Perhaps heating (thermal infrared radiation, IR) starts up these IR stretching oscillations throughout the lattice.”

    For the comments here:
    http://coldfusionnow.org/peter-gluck-and-yeong-e-kim-on-lenr-research/

  • Gerard McEk

    I agree that AC-like changes may damp the LENR reaction. I am not sure how AR has interpreted ‘(changing)’, though. It may also be that static magnetic fields damp the reaction. Besides that, the reaction may have an optimal operation point with regards to frequency and field strength. Additionally, my remark on dissipation damping must be taken seriously. If LENR generates voltages in the coil, you may be able to damp the reaction by controlled short-circuting the coil (using the IGBT’s). AR has already said that increasing the electrical load will reduce the heat output (thus damping the reaction).

    • LT

      Gerard,

      I posed the question to Andrea Rossi because I concluded from remarks by Rossi on his blog, analyses of the hotcat report and the Lugano report and hundreds of electrical simulations what could have happened, that the active runs where performed using 2 of the three heater coils. (look also at the appendix of the ECAT evaluation report which was later added, it shows only 2 phases active}. When two phases are used, 2 of the three connection points of the delta are shorted, so the third coil is also shorted. If the reaction would have been damped by short circuiting a coil, the reaction could not have occurred because of this third coil shorted. Because of this I don’t think that shortening a coil using IGBT’s will stop the reaction.
      That said, my disclaimer is that it is clear that the tester made mistakes in their reporting, as already shown by analysis done by other people. So I had to make assumptions about the errors the testers made in their reporting to get to my conclusions. I hope that these assumptions where correct.

      • Gerard McEk

        LT, this is totally new to me. In the Lugano picture all wires running to the coils seem equally orange, ergo: conducting a similar load. Also the three coils were glowing equally. I think it is unlikely that only two coils were used for heating. Obviously the picture shows only a single moment, but I do not believe that things were changed later. Coils cannot be shortcircuited in a delta configuration, that would blow out the fuses of the power controller which is then shortcircuited too.

        • LT

          My analysis showed that the dummy run was done with all three heating coils powered, the active run with only two heating coils powered. So I think the photographs where taken during the dummy run. If in a delta you short one coil and connect one phase (for example phase 1) to that short and another phase (phase 2) to the remaining point on the delta and have phase 3 disconnected, then no short will occur. In my opinion the change between 3 phase and two phase was done in the connection box between the thyristor controller and the delta. (could be done with a simple changeover relais)

  • Engineer48

    Hi Future,

    While other older ECat do appear to use 3 phase excitation, it seems the 1 year test 51 x 20kW BlueCats and the 4 x 250kW Tiger reactors were powered via single phase.
    .

  • Engineer48

    Hi James,

    It appears Rossi excites the heater coil with AC that is switched on and off with common relays.
    .

  • Engineer48

    So now Rossi indirectly reveals he controls the reactor by monitoring internal EM fields the reaction creates via the EMF they induce into the heater coil and monitored via this circuit.

    • LT

      I prefer another explanation being that when the reaction rate of the ECAT is throttled back by applying a changing magnetic field, he measures by this circuit the amount of magnetic energy he applied. This enables him to control the reaction rate precisely.

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi does not use heater coils anymore, see patent.

    • Appleby

      With existing tech you don’t need a heating wire. I have looked through the posts but haven’t seen anything posted on the subject of magnetic induction heating. With this type of heating you can also pick whether you want the thick metal to heat up before thinner metals (or vise verse) simply by changing the frequency.

      Lots of YouTube videos show melting metal with magnetic induction heating……..just a thought.

    • Rene

      That circuit doesn’t monitor EMF. It looks to be an opto-isolator that monitors the power to the heater coil. When power is applied to the heater, the coil EMF line goes to near 0V. When the heater is off, the coil EMF is pulled up to +5V. The most this does is send power to some other EMF circuitry (not disclosed) when the heater is not powered.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Rene,

        I know this circuit and application well.

        By selecting the resistance in series with the Opto led, you can select the voltage ranges that the Opto transistor can monitor. BTW this chip is available as a logic chip or a linear chip. As I did, I assume the designed also used a linear chip where the Opto transistor output varies as the Opto led input current varies.

        The output of the opto transistor goes to the ADC 0-3.3vdc 10 bit input of the I/O board.

  • Kevmo ✓ᵀʳᵘᵐᵖ

    The Wright brothers didn’t leapfrog everyone else by virtue of the fact that they jumped into the sky higher or faster or even longer than others. It was due to the fact that they had CONTROL over their craft.

  • Omega Z

    Andy, No one can patent LENR. Only devices that allow it’s operation and use.
    The reason Rossi withholds certain details is that they would be beneficial to his competitors in developing working reactors that can be patented. Having this edge in knowledge allows Rossi “the possibility” of patenting the best reactor designs.

  • http://www.omantek.com JohnOman

    It may be instructive that Godes and Hagelstein use pulses to excite/control reactions. I liken it to the ringing of a bell. In order to be effective, a bell’s clapper needs to rebound from the bell and allowing to ring at its natural frequency. In the same way a short EM nano-pulse might do the same for the LENR sites. Ding!

    • GiveADogABone

      I would be interested in where the ‘LENR sites’ are located. Any views?

      • http://www.omantek.com JohnOman

        Not really… I’m an EE controls guy and wanna be replicator. Most of my nuclear physics and nano-materials exposure is from attending ICCF-18 and following the story here over the past few years. From the amateur replicator’s perspective, I don’t think it matters. Just send the EM pulse down a small diameter pellet of properly prepared and loaded fuel. It will find the sites. But the pulse must be short, a few nano-seconds, and not too frequent. IMHO…

  • Ted-Z

    in the NMR spectroscopy usually the sample rotates…. this suggests that in LENR the magnetic field rotates….. so the relative motion might be the same!
    Li-7 and hydrogen (and all elements with the odd mass number) are NMR active!
    .. Are we getting closer to connect the dots?….

  • Ted-Z

    The role of the magnetic field indicates to me that so called Nuclear Magnetic Resonance may be involved in the mechanism of the LENR reactions. the nuclear resonance depends on the magnetic field. In the case of LENR the NMR seems to be a non-standard …
    solid state and the magnetic field changing… it is still possible!

    • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

      I am not physicist but I already guessed long time ago (and I wrote it here) that creating a resonance where the electrons spin around the nuclei would cause the protons to spin to compensate and that would create a hole in the coulomb barrier. And there is where the proccess start.

      The more i read, the more convinced i become of this being true.

      • Ted-Z

        Nuclear resonance by resonabe-transfer of energy from électrons to the nucleus is a well known process, but it is hidden by the scientific jargon used in this field. Several effects are there in the literature. I agree that the nuclear reesonance might be the key to understanding the LENR. Even more interesting is that the state of excitation can be on the order of tens of seconds (physicists generally do not know that, as it was observed by chemists). In addition to the NMR effect, a metastable ring of protons or neutrons might be an additional factor.
        —————————————————
        Regarding Rossis mysterious isotope enhancement: I believe that it is a cryogenic process of HAMMERING the nickel powder. Cryogenic processes are known tio be capable of releasing neutrons (known in the literature…). The future will prove that I am right there. The method is not in the public domain, but I hope that this posting will make it non-patentable. Sorry, Dr. Rossi.
        —————————————————-
        Pro publico bono.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Heat it with an infrared LED instead of a coil?

  • Axil Axil

    As Agaricus mentions below as follows:

    “I think this has been suggested a number of times on this blog,”

    The destructive effects to the LENR reaction of magnetic field applied to the reaction has been discussed in the open in dozens of posts here and elsewhere. With this in mind, how can Rossi expect to patent this LENR behavior when through open discussion it has been placed in open source and prior art for a long time now?

    In general, there has been so much good LENR theory discussed on this blog, and therefore placed in open source as prior art, that Rossi will have a difficult job of getting any patent protection for the LENR reaction.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi doesn’t withhold details because of Patent issues. He withholds them because they allow a better understanding of how the process works and this would lead to highly viable working reactors. It is the reactors that can be patented.

      You can’t patent LENR anymore then you could patent anti-gravity. However, you can patent a device that circumvented the laws that allowed the use and control of anti-gravity. In the mean time while developing such a device, you wouldn’t share details such as frequency of EM fields you may be working with in the process until your device patent was filed.

  • Zephir

    /* It might also explain why so many replication attempts fail. Possibly
    due to the magnetic field generated by the heating element. */

    Many people say instead, that DC heating doesn’t work, the cold fusion likes high frequency field instead… DC heating generates steady-state magnetic field.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Just thinking out loud again. How to bring a proton (lithium-7 also has a spin) into resonance. We might learn something from this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJhVotrZt9I

  • Gerard McEk

    Yes it can be expected that magnetic fields can influence LENR when LENR can also directly generate electricity. No doubt LENR will also generate (electro-)magnetic fields then.
    It is one of the reasons that I proposed a IGBT based pulse generator for driving the heater coil, but also able to control/dissipate voltages that are generated in the coil by the LENR process.
    I hope the patents will be published soon.

  • KeithT

    Depends on how you read the question and answer, and how Rossi then defines the word “changing”, you could read the statement as the magnetic field being ON and the Ecat working, “changing” to the field being OFF and the Ecat not working. The object of the patent application could be the use of a magnetic field to switch the Ecat ON.

    • Ophelia Rump

      More likely it has to do with resonance of the particles inside the reaction. By changing the field you introduce an interference pattern altering the frequency of vibration of the particles.
      Think noise cancellation.

      The most effective changes given that theory would be discreet intervals of the oscillation. In effect if you altered the frequency precisely you would get a noise cancellation type effect on 1 in N cycles. Skipping beats, reducing the effectiveness of the operational frequency by 1/N.

      You are literally throttling back the nano machines operating speed like a step motor.

  • Alan Smith

    ‘Changing’ is the key word. Just use DC and it doesn’t change.

    • Jimr

      Not knowing anything on its operation, perhaps it requires pulsed power, dc or ac could cause a magnetic field.

      • Brokeeper

        Lugano test reported square wave EM control.

        • Engineer48

          Hi BroKeeper,

          Triac chopped AC.
          .

          • Brokeeper

            Or chopped DC. 🙂 Thanks.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

    I think this has been suggested a number of times on this blog, but it’s very interesting to receive some confirmation that it is the case. It seems possible that the devices may self generate oscillating fields, and that external fields that are in phase with this field may amplify the reaction, while out-of-phase and anti-phase fields may dampen or extinguish the reaction.

    In the past I’ve suggested two possible mechanisms: (1) establishment of SPPs within the reactors, giving rise to a (very) rapidly oscillating zero-max magnetic field, or (2) existence of a natural magnetostriction-relaxation frequency in the metal substrate (nickel etc). The history of development of e-cats and DeChiaro’s ‘notes’ on his research possibly indicate the latter may possibly be the primary mechanism affected by external fields.