Bob Greenyer Posts New Video with MFMP News and Ideas

Bob Greenyer of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project did a live video chat this morning on Google Hangouts in which he discussed some news from the MFMP and ideas about the possible source of energy in LENR

The video can be seen below:

Bob followed up with this summary of the content of the video:

I just wanted to get the 3 main things out before going to Aarhus

1. That we have a shot at showing if a particular theory is correct

2. That practically all successful tech seams to have LWFM in play – and that it has been known to be critical for many years with Celani, Iraj and Iwamura being leaders. Holmlid has recently observed Muons but attributes the m to nuclear spallation – despite using the LWFM and transition metal (K and Fe in this case)

3. My speculation that Muons, Muonium, Muonium- and muonic atoms may be at play (in a similar way to Piantelli’s H- but more accepted as a MO to make fusion)

4. That the e-Cat X is a HV discharge through sapphire.

5. That HV Sapphire makes muonium and potential ly muonium- as shown by canadian research

6. That that is why I suggested 3 phases may play a role in Hot Cat and my previous informed speculation HV discharge in E-Cat X and that Rossi may not know how it works

7. That recent patent by Clean planet says effectively “heavy electron’ every few paragraphs, saying that the nano structures help it… but does not say muon

8. That subsequent to ALL this and with a priority date before E-CatX was mentioned by Rossi, the German patent is doing a Dielectric Barrier Discharge DBD through Al2O3 (what sapphire and hotcats are made from) without giving a reason and there is no indication that they know how it may enhance the effect.

IF the ECat-X is functioning like this, there is no indication Rossi knows that. It would allow for pulsed HV DBD through sapphire capillary – a muonic (even muonium- with the LWFM increasing production of H- and u-) based accelerated effect could result in light,back emf and direct electricity.

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Mats002

    Aarhus University confirming COP 1.n and any kind of nucleus decay in Live Open Science will be an eye opener!

    Can you tell more about their experimental team – more than one professor and how many students will attend?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hi – it has been a punishing week – I have given lectures to rafts of post-docs/PhD student, meetings with professors and with 10 different Danish industrial representatives about Live Open Science, the MFMP and LENR. Been very well received and have successfully defended in front of Chemists, Physicists and the head of the Nanotechnology centre.

      I have been able to advise from the understanding of LENR how projects can move in new directions that take on board the science of LENR.

      There is a synchotron which could be of use. I have met several researchers that can do synthesis of catalysts and study of surfaces with a range of high-end techniques and over the next week I’d like to try and define the experimental plan for the coming period.

      I have also had extensive meetings and 2 half day tutoring sessions with the Masters student that will be a constant in the work at Aarhus, he is Norwegian and I will properly introduce him in due course.

      I have also taken an interview by a respected journalist at a Copenhagen based science publication that is considering running an article on Open Science and the planned MFMP experiments at Aarhus.

      Moreover, we have been approached separately, and before we announced the Aarhus collaboration, by a group of researchers at a prestigious German institute that want to conduct experiments with us, more on that later.

      • TomR

        Thank you Bob Greenyer for all you do and thank you for sharing with us.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Thanks for your support, it helps make it easier.

          • artefact

            “at a prestigious German institute” ohh, cool 🙂

            • Bob Greenyer

              Seriously… try and guess.

              • artefact

                TU Dresden; TU München; Fraunhofer Gesellschaft ?

                • Bob Greenyer

                  oooo – you are nearly right…

  • Bob Greenyer

    Phonon Energy to attempt *GlowStick* type replication…

  • Bob Greenyer


  • Anon2012_2014

    Who’s the man!

    Bob Greenyer!

    Keep it up Bob!

  • OT: There’s two new motions posted in the court docs and also “minutes’ from the discovery hearing alluded to but not posted.

    Leonardo has until 16 Sep to provide a more ‘definite atatement.’

    • Ged

      IH has until 16th of September ;). The motion was filed -by- Leonardo. Yeah, legal grammar is disorienting. Some of IH’s defense was vague, but don’t know if it was ever vague enough to get struck by a Rule 12 motion (very high bar), but guess we’ll see.

      • Ah, I see that from the document now, thanks. The defendants have to put some meat on the bones of their counter-accusations or the court may strike them (or at least that’s what Team Leonardo wants).

        Plaintiff’s motion, Doc 39

        • Ged

          Awesome, I was really wanting to see it. Thanks for the link, LENR G!

  • Bob Greenyer


    See the first of many many repetitions in the Mizuno/clean planet patent here, in Paragraph 9


      I saw it. They attribute the LENR to heavy electrons not muons.

      • Bob Greenyer

        That is my point. Now read this

        With alkaline earth metal / transition metal oxide catalyst – Holmlid and Olaffson have observed what looks like nuclear spallation, this yields muons – they readily admit that it may only be part of the process.

        The MFMP is theory agnostic, but we must try to devise experiments to test claims made and our own insight. By replicating the German patent application, which appears to be how I predicted the structure of the as yet un-described E-CatX it has it all, the Dielectric Barrier discharge (through Al203) creating hydrogen radicals and rydberg matter, transition metal hydrogen storage material cathode doped with ‘catalytic oxides’ read … metal oxides, such as those based on K, Sr. The discharges create nano structures as per the Canon patent and more recently the work of Mizuno/Clean Planet.

        Different people / groups, coming from different angles and independently coming up with claimed working embodiments that have clearly similar aspects.


          What has he seen that looks like nuclear spallation? I dont believe nuclear spallation is going on. It takes a tremendous amount of energy.

          I’m glad MFMP is theory agnostic. I’d like to see a cloud chamber study of the particles coming out of Holmlid’s laser cluster fusion device.

          His slide show shows an equation of a deuteron decaying into mesons. Has that reaction been seen by other labs like CERN?

          I agree with you that “Different people / groups, coming from different angles and independently coming up with claimed working embodiments that have clearly similar aspects.”

        • gameover

          The German patent application has been granted:

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks for this which is surprising on such a short timescale – however, a follower on our FB has noted that the German registrar does not agree with googles status.


            • gameover

              Pity 🙁
              Indeed, the “A9” at the end of the patent number seemed strange. The patents that are granted usually have a “B”.

  • Stephen

    Just taken a look at your post on you MFMP FB page Bob. The lab at Arhus looks great. This could be really good. Good luck with it.

    • artefact

      Nice Bob!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yes, really want to see if we can find a way to use it for the full 18 months, workign hard behind the scenes to coordinate which team members can come and when.

      Lot’s of meetings today – I gave my vision for building out the LOS platform and it apparently fits with the Danish governments aspirations for science and so the new Open Science coordinator things that there maybe some seperate funding for that and if it could be achieved that would benefit all researchers.

      Here are some more pictures for you. There is still a lot of stuff we need, so we are going to start to look what other departments can loan and we discussed the possibility of getting the same $800 Chinese made Hydrogen generator that me356 uses.

      • Ged

        Hot dang, that is a beautifully designed lab. I am jealous.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Isn’t it though, I’ll try and share a spherical image tomorrow – you can see the beautiful view out of the window also.

      • Andy Kumar

        The lab looks too clean. Are any groups working there. Normally you will see a lot of clutter in an active lab. They may be using you to create some buzz. Always need to be careful that people don’t take advantage of you, as Dr. R learnt the hard way with UniBo, NI and IH.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Hence why I got the rushed presentation out.

          They have other labs – which are EXTREMELY cluttered in the chemistry department. This is the lab in the iNANO (iterdisciplinary Nano Technology Building) which has been prepared for the Chemistry department and us for this new academic year.

        • It might seem absurd, but this is how things often look in the Nordics. Modern, fairly new, little worn, with few people around.
          Small, highly developed countries with few people, lots of resources and a strong ‘engineering’ drive to have stuff that works well. Yet, not always this produces excellent results—since it doesn’t force you to fight for overcoming troubles, obstacles and problems, which nurtures a certain kind of creativity—but occasionally we do pretty well 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            Mats, yes – there is a certain cleanliness and order to things, but I must say, the lab I was in yesterday, which is currently in full time use – is about as cluttered as a haberdashers basement.

      • Rene

        Wow, that looks like a brand new lab. Even the gas spigots lack wear. Advanced air handlers too. That should do quite nicely.

  • magicsnd1
  • gameover

    This may be interesting for some. I found here that to create Pions, which decay into muons (µ-), it takes at least 290 MeV of energy in a proton-proton collision in a particle accelerator:

    Thus to create a pion of rest energy 135 MeV, it is necessary to give the incoming proton at least 290 MeV of kinetic energy. This is called the “threshold energy” for pion production.

    Something amazing must happen in LENR if muons are really observed.

    • gameover

      But I just recalled that in a few slides of Olafson that he and Holmlid saw the entire Kaon decay chain, so this would make the energy required to see the same in a particle accelerator even higher?

      • Stephen

        Indeed if we have a nano kaon factory in any of these devices it’s astonishing technology well beyond how we normally think about LENR.

        • gameover

          Either we are dealing with a to-date unknown force of nature or these LENR systems are GeV-scale proton (and deuteron) accelerators, haha!

          • Stephen

            There are some very energetic cosmic muons but I don’t think they are involved here.

            Perhaps there is a resonance phenomena that stimulates a virtual Phi meson enough to interact with a nucleon pair and stimulate their decay who knows. If it occurs it will certainly be new.

            • gameover

              I thought of this: without involving unknown physics or new exotic dense matter one can speculate that at the nanoscale the pores and the lattice vacancies of a hydrogen saturated porous material may after a certain threshold and a suitable impulse (and the proper conditions and alignment) be able to burst catastrophically one after another and accelerate hydrogen atoms in the process up to relativistic speeds depending on the amount of aligned hydrogen saturated pores (= amount of material) by momentum transfer. See this video for an example at the macroscopic scale (no nuclear reactions involved):


              Then you could obtain depending on the energy of the emitted protons and the target: kaons, pions, muons, or also neutrons by spallation or muon capture, or just accelerated protons.

              But this would not easily explain for example how can some obtain similar effects in plasma experiments without a lattice or the very strange results of Holmlid who detects superfluid dense hydrogen material outside of the catalyst, or the cavitation experiments in liquid metals, etc…

              • gameover
              • Bob Greenyer

                Nice example gameover, if something like this did occur, could the process self trigger, that is one event that leads to an energy yielding event produces shockwaves that lead to other similar events.

                • gameover

                  A similar explanation may also imply that:
                  1. The emission of energetic particles can be anisotropic.
                  2. There can be something equivalent to a “critical mass” of LENR material.

                  But this is only a thought exercise and I do not expect any real link with existing LENR mechanisms.

                • Bob Greenyer

                  Or some collective body effect.

                  I think the main thing is to work hard to devise experiments to test hypothesis and see what the data implies

                • Stephen

                  Some times it feels that we are tantalisingly close to fitting all these pieces together in the right way but are just missing or have forgotten some critical piece of data. These tests you are devising and the data they provide could well clarify and identify the key points. They are critical and important test I think at this time what ever their results.

                • Bob Greenyer

                  More open data from better designed experiments is what is needed.

                  You all can play a role in helping us get the most out of this opportunity – after all, it was all of you that helped make this possible!

    • Axil Axil

      The production of Kaons and the mesons(D-mesons) that produce them show the clear cause of LENR. There’s only one way that strange quarks can be produced. The proton and neutron is decaying under the influence of EMF.

      When hadrons(protons and neutrons) decay, 1 giga electron volts are produced. A monopole field can do this.


      There is something undiscovered in the EMF that LENR produces to affect the strong and the weak force to produce strange matter.

      It will be very, very, very hard for science to accept this cause of LENR.

      For more background on strange matter

      • gameover

        Do not free neutrons have a mean lifetime of about 15 minutes before they decay into protons? The decay of protons however has never been observed. Do you suspect that something is accelerating their decay as to be observable?

        • Axil Axil

          There is something in LENR based EMF that is producing proton and neutron decay inside the nucleus. It could be the yet undiscovered fifth force… or not.

          This involves grand unification theory, that is the subject that Einstein spend decades of his life looking for.

          • gameover

            Well, my opinion is that if something is accelerating the nuclear decay of very stable particles it means that you are manipulating time. If you are manipulating time then you also have a warp drive! Of course this is just my dumb speculation.

  • NT

    Lenr Will Frustrate Mortals…

  • Rene

    Thanks for all that sleuthing work, Bob. If indeed this (ecatx) is really muon catalyzed fusion caused by electrically induced muon/muonium generation then that to me suggests strongly rate controllable LENR. You adjust the mass of the reaction matrix to set the length of time of the LENR cascade (measured in seconds) and then use pulse firing to create muon bursts to start a cascade. I liken it to pulse frequency modulation of LENR which permits fine control of the average power output. This is what is needed to deliver the right amount of power to varying loads to prevent runaway meltdowns. Now this is getting exciting.

    • Axil Axil

      As was shown in the Lugano demo, waveform stimulation produces a limited power density reaction that does not exceed at most COP=3 and some say far less. The stimulation that might be used to produce the very high COP is the electrostatic stimulation that generates the TAO effect. That is the reference to the two electrodes that can produce an EMF potential of up to 100,000 volt and is defined in an update to the Rossi patent.

      See my post: High Temperature Superconductivity and LENR

      See the patent update here:

      If you read this patent update that references the NEW electrostatic stimulator which operates between 50 and 100 KV, Rossi says that the resistance heater is NO LONGER REQUIRED.

      Rossi also says that the reaction temperature is between 400 to 600C. This means that the update is applied to the LOW TEMPERATURE REACTOR.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I agree, no resistance heater is needed, the plasma discharge and then the effect would keep it at the operating range.

        In Iraj Parchamazad zeolite work (aluminosilicates of sodium, potassium, calcium, and barium) it is noted that there is 3billion V/m

        do the math for a 200micron sapphire wall!

        boarding plane to aahus

        • Gerard McEk

          For what you are going to do in Aahus I wish you all the luck in the world, Bob! I hope you can keep us updated and share where you are working on. Will you be hands-on with the experiments? Are you allowed to determine the experiments? Do you have full freedom in this?
          Bring LENR into the world!

          • Aarhus.
            Which in Swedish is written Århus.

            • Bob Greenyer

              What Mats said.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I made it a condition of my coming here that everything will be open.

            At the moment, we are looking to have 4 experimentalists come here that you know and maybe others that you don’t.

            If we can raise the balance funding, the 6 weeks in November and December of planned experiments will be greatly expanded.

            In the mean time, before November, we are planning experiments in US – and of course, you will be informed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            As usual, we will plan what is possible, then what people have time to do and then consult the crowd – you guys are part of this process!

        • gameover

          Also consider agitation of the powders that some inventors have suggested (for example with ultrasounds). Tribocharging (contact charging) effects may occur and be significative depending on the materials. Agitation may also occur inadvertently with other methods if sintering is not occurring or is limited.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have seen static build up to dangerous levels in just handling LiAlH4.

        • Ged

          Safe flight! Hopefully they can get all the sapphire needed ;).

          • Bob Greenyer


            Sapphire is on the top of my shopping list – St Gobain

      • Rene

        Yes, we are discussing two different possibilities. If Bob can get sufficient experimental coverage, we will, I hope, see which theories hold and which ones yield higher reaction power densities.

  • Axil Axil

    At 17:52, the experimental procedure involving 18F is mentioned in that proton interaction with 18F will produce a gamma. This gamma may not be detected because LENR thermalizes all gammas. In other words, protons may be produced but their gamma interaction with 18F will be hidden by the LENR reaction.

    • Bob Greenyer

      That may be true Axil, but we should still see the Neutron – and if Piantelli is correct and the incident Protons are 0-6.7 MeV, then the neutrons should be around 0-2.8MeV Neutrons – so we intend to use 50-100mm of HDPE/paraffin/water to maximise moderation of potential Neutron yield.

      Additionally, if we shut down the cell, stopping the ‘LENR’ then the decay is still 109 minutes.

      So we have 3 ways to see if Piantelli is correct

      the 109min decay

      the 511keV annihilation photons

      the 0-2.8MeV neutrons

  • Barbierir

    No aswer yet by Johnson, Fabiani or Penon. But Fernando S. Aran is the new attorney on behalf of J.M. Products, Johnson and Quantum Leap

    • Ged

      The mediation hearing will be before the other Judge tomorrow. I don’t know if we can get the summary minutes from that, though a few weeks later the final mediation ruling should occur.

      This Friday should be the deadline for the others to respond given 21 days after summons where given.

  • gameover

    It seems like a step is missing. What is causing the production of muons, muonium, etc ?

    • Ged

      Discharge of high voltage through sapphire produces the muons, Bob positted in point 5 with implications for point 4.

      • gameover

        My question was at a more fundamental level.
        Is the assumption that the process directly causes a conversion of hydrogen to muons (etc)?
        It is certainly not the case of Holmlid.

        • Ged

          I don’t think so?

          I mean, yes, colliding hydrogen (protons) with atoms hard enough makes them decay into pions and then muons, so if one looks at it that way, I guess that would be “conversion”. And high voltage electrically breaking through sapphire, which is an insulator, causes a large excess production of electrons that may accellerate hydrogens to muon formation levels (I think it is more for catching muons and concentrating then into muonium)? But I don’t know the physics of this part all that well, just what I see in muon spin resonance research which uses HV through sapphire to make muonium. Bob will have to answer your question.

          • gameover

            Some LENR researchers believe that they are producing the equivalent of room temperature Bose-Einstein condensates of hydrogen, which would be an extremely dense, superfluid and possibly superconductive state of hydrogen. Some theorize that metallic hydrogen would also have these characteristics.

            Holmlid claims the observation of something that has similar characteristics and he calls it ultra-dense hydrogen. The interaction of this matter with regular matter or with the application of energetic impulses generates the strange results that he reports in his papers.

            • Ged

              BE condensate definitely seems the most likely candidate to me, and I strongly favor that hypothesis. That doesn’t rule out some help from muons though, particularly if LENR has several “flavors”. I confess I am not well versed on muons, so I can’t yet assess the validity or likelihood of these ideas.

              • Bob Greenyer

                I think it is a component if real.

                Once going, If Piantelli is correct, then the high energy Protons and other aspects of the reaction can keep it going given the right environment and stimulation.

                But imagine that the containing vessel can have a re-inforcing effect, where ejected protons simulation muonium production and this yields fusion.

          • gameover

            I mean, yes, colliding hydrogen (protons) with atoms hard enough makes them decay into pions and then muons…

            I had to look it up.


            …Thus to create a pion of rest energy 135 MeV, it is necessary to give the incoming proton at least 290 MeV of kinetic energy. This is called the “threshold energy” for pion production.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Go and find this paper.

          perhaps you could try here:

          • Stephen

            Wow that’s new and interesting! Do they know anything about the muon characteristics? if they can determine if they have energies consistent with coming from pions for example?

            Or is it enhancing muonium production from cosmic muons?

            • Bob Greenyer

              I don’t know but if you translate paragraph 10 in the german patent application it has it all (I have discussed this in a different post)

            • Bob Greenyer

              A lot of research needs to be done, I have been holding off on this like forever, but it got unbearable to continue.

              …muons catalyse Fusion and muonium based Exotic Atoms are not controversial unlike H- capture, though muonium- is analogous with H-


              …I then felt there was some reason for the multiple coils and phases in various hot cat designs

              …Sonsheng had instant heat when pulse on of power

              …Then, I basically could only see that the ECatX was sapphire capillary with HV pulsed discharge through it (because I could not see any other way it could run on 0.5W and at the claimed temp) – this fitted nicely with the Al2O3 muonium accelerated hypothesis

              Then after I was there…

              … Mizuno and Clean Planet basically saying in every segment of their new patent that the nano structures were promoting the creation of heavy electrons and these catalysed the energy yielding reaction – without calling them Muons

              … Then the German patent for me was the ok – ‘I give in, there may be something to this’

              Is the EcatX built this way – don’t know, if it is, Rossi has not said it works this way, the German patent takes on Canon, Celani epi-catalysis, all the Low work function material understantion of Celani and iwamura – and the Dielectrict Barrier through Al2O3 discharge. The German Patent Authors do not suggest this modus operandi or that it may play a role – they may have just been putting Al2O3 on the Anode to protect it.

              • Axil Axil

                In his blog when asked, Rossi has stated that his reaction is not caused by muons.

                • gameover

                  So, either:
                  1. The reaction causes muons.
                  2. Rossi does not see muons.

                • Bob Greenyer

                  Is it part of a LENR effect, a side reaction, a trigger or not related? – research will tell. What I see is that there is independent discovery going on that is pointing in a direction.

              • Stephen

                It’s an amazing insight and connection Bob. If it works out it could open a whole new window into the process.

                It would be great if we could find some independent way to confirm the muons and perhaps characterise their energy. Would this be possible with a cloud chamber and magnet as proposed else where by Axil?

                • Axil Axil

                  Use the muon detected as posted above. It’s cheap and easier.

                • Bob Greenyer

                  We started talking cloud chambers before axil…


                  Cloud chamber is on the shopping list.

                  Of course, we have been mentioning phone based Muon detectors – and I have talked with the team that we need to get this approach tested with photon and particle beams to characterise them.

                  In our last call, we also discussed (and have been discussing since) the $100 muon detector, and Bob Higgins has contacted the author and in that case there are some issues but now Bob has finished his CHM32 based Open Source Neutron detector, I sense that he is going to make a much better device based on the $100 dollar muon detectors authors work – with these things and a understanding from Olaffson and Holmlids detection approach – we may have this covered.

              • INVENTOR INVENTED

                Its not muons. its electrons in the solids with bigger effective mass. Its a solid state physics phenomenon that gives the electrons higher mass and that lets them act like muons that catalyze nuclear fusion and other LENR. They are heavy electrons. not muons. Understand?

                • Bob Greenyer

                  This is as repeated many, many times in the Mizuno/Clean Planet patent and as I mentioned in the video.

          • gameover

            A very dense paper that is not easy to digest. What I understood: sapphire can convert incident positive muons (µ+, or antimuons) into muonium (Mu) in a temperature-dependent manner. The application of an electric field affects the probability of this process. The Mu formed may actually be Mu- which would be analogous to H-.

            But this does not solve the muon source. And heavy electrons would be negative muons. Holmlid claims he detects heavy electrons, which would be negative muons.

            • gameover
            • Bob Greenyer

              And that is where the LWFM (Low Work Function Material) comes in, nano structures in the claimed operation of the nano-structures in the Mizuno/clean planet patent and Piantelli’s ejected protons.

              Holmlid is essentially saying he is seeing Muons when passing Hydrogen isotope through a FT catalyst which contains Iron and potassium oxides like the one we used in this experiment.


              Setting all that aside, the German patent as an Anode bonded to Al2O3 and discharges HV pulses into a Cathode made of Hydrogen Storage material and…

              Here is the translation of paragraph 10 in their patent application

              “The counter electrode is made of transition metals, preferably of nickel or the realization of catalytic effects also from alloys such. As nickel-zirconium, or of said metals with admixtures of catalytically active metal oxides. The counter electrode of chemically very pure material is carefully edited, cleaned and charged with hydrogen to saturation prior to ignition of the discharges.”

              This has it all,

              1. the cleaning and ‘occlusion’ saturation as per Tomas Graham 1867,

              2. the epi-catalytic (hydrogen dissociation promotion) from a mixture of dissimilar hydrogen storage transition metals as pioneered by Celani (Constantan being very good)

              3. It has addition of “catalytically active metal oxides’ READ LWFM like CaO (as established by Celani and Iwamura of Mitsubishi fame) or barium, strontium, potassium, Caesium etc. oxides (look at latest Piantelli patent for a go-to list).

              4. In-situ nano particle creation by way of plasma discharge to material containing 2 & 3 as suggested by Canon, then later Piantelli and Mizuno.

              5. Creation of hyrogen ions/radicals such as rydberg state by way of the discharge.

              • Axil Axil

                Understandably, Paintelli never thought that LENR would produces muons so he did not detect the charge of the particle that came off the nickel bar in the cloud chamber. The particle that Piantelli saw could have been a muon. Paintelli just assumed the particle he saw was a proton.

                A adjustable magnetic field must be used in the cloud chamber to see which direction the charged particle circles. The strength of magnetic field must be adjustable so that a full closed circular path is not produced, since one circle looks like another. A partial circle will show which way the particle is bending.

                Telling muons from protons in a cloud chamber is not easy.

                • Bob Greenyer

                  Piantelli, as I made public in this video, used MACOR to surround the Nickel and provide a barrier between the power electrode and the sample – Amongst other things, MACOR is 16% Al2O3 and 10% K2O – as I also revealed in this video, he used Platinum for the heater wire and said that the reason was so that he could trigger the reaction with the highest current pulse possible.

              • Axil Axil


                The Desktop Muon Detector: A simple, physics-motivated machine- and electronics-shop project for university students


                This paper describes an undergraduate-level physics project that incorporates various aspects of machine- and electronics-shop technical development. The desktop muon detector is a self contained apparatus that employs plastic scintillator as a detection medium and a silicon photomultiplier for light collection. These detectors can be used in conjunction with the provided software to make interesting physics measurements. The total cost of each counter is approximately $100.


                Axani and Conrad published instructions for building the detector on the open-source physics publishing site arXiv, and have been reworking the project with the aim of making it accessible to high-school students. No math more advanced than division and multiplication is needed, Axani says. And the parts don’t need to be new, meaning students could potentially take advantage of leftovers from experiments at places like Fermilab.

                “This should be for students to build,” Axani says. “It’s a good project for creative people who want to make their own measurements.”

                • Bob Greenyer

                  As said in another post, following recent internal MFMP calls prior to this rather hurried information dump today – Bob Higgins has contacted the author and is, I believe, on the road to making an improved design that overcomes some of the authors identified issues.

              • gameover

                FT catalysts like those used by Holmlid are very good for dissociating hydrogen. Actually they also very efficacely dissociate nitrogen , which has a very high bond dissociation energy (you may have heard of the Haber-Bosch process for ammonia production). The potassium oxide should make their surface have a low work function. Their structure is rich of lattice defects and nanometric pores, good qualities that define catalitically active materials. According to Holmlid under heating and at low pressure the potassium atoms leave the surface of these catalyst in an excited state and as ions which in turn excite and ionize the hydrogen atoms adsorbed and in very close proximity to the catalyst surface. You get so many effects in one that seems almost a magic material.

                It would be cool to see an experiment from MFMP that simply uses a bunch of these porous catalysts (or anyway decisively more than 100mg as you show in the link above) in a tube, puts electrodes in it and pumps hydrogen impulsively as Rossi told in his patent application written in 2009 (2008 if you count the Italian patent). In the beginning Rossi simply used an electrovalve to the hydrogen input and occasionally discharged hydrogen manually. Here there are some high quality photos of early prototypes that you may not have seen before: (Credits: Alan Smith)


                • Bob Greenyer

                  Yes – saw those photos… well to remember.

        • Axil Axil

          Holmlid uses metalized hydrogen (aka rydberg matter) to produce muons. How this happens involves physics beyond the standard model.

          Realize that CERN is producing muons using a $10 billion proton smasher. Holmlid is producing muons for a few hundred dollars.

          • gameover

            Few hundred dollars, not so sure, but surely much less than $10B.

  • Warthog

    First rule of science writing….don’t use acronyms without defining them first.


    • Mike Henderson

      Long words fool many.
      Left with foaming mouth.
      Loose women: feeble men.
      Laden with false modesty.

      • Bob Greenyer


      • US_Citizen71

        Living with friendly martians.

        • Bob Greenyer

          From now on, I’ll just speak in acronyms, who knew it would be this much fun!

          • Rene

            Lively Wraiths Form Muons

            • Bob Greenyer

              ooo – I like that one.

    • Gerard McEk

      As a electrotechnical engineer I would say Long Wave Frequency Modulation…… Very unpractical and not likely in this context.

    • gameover

      Low work function material

      • Frost*

        I think Bob said Low work function metal as well as material

        • Bob Greenyer

          I made several mistakes as I was worried about missing my bus and frustrated at the changes in the way manycam and Google hang outs on air interacted on the Mac

          I will correct with overlays.

    • artefact

      Low Work Functional Metal ?

      • gameover

        Pure metals do not generally have a low work function.

        • Bob Greenyer

          M stands for Material.

          In the German patent, they say “with admixtures of catalytically active metal oxides”

    • Bob Greenyer

      sorry, this is NOT how I wanted to role out this information, I had to to ensure it was not captured.

      • Warthog

        I are a chemist, so have “some” vague knowledge of “photoelectric effect” (Edison’s sole contribution to pure science).

        It is a good idea in ANY writing to include the full term being abbreviated at the first use of an acronym, i.e.:

        LWFM (Low Work Function Material)