Faking LENR With Thermite? (LookingForHeat Video and Report)

There’s a new video by Alan Smith on the LookingForHeat.com website in which he gives a demonstration of how thermite behaves under various conditions, and whether it might be used to ‘fake’ a LENR reaction. Some people have suspected that heat events that some researchers have reported may not really be LENR reactions, but simply chemical reactions.

There’s a full discussion of the issue at this page: http://www.lookingforheat.com/thermite-in-lenr/, and the video can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N9ZuQWYNBA

A file with a complete report of the LFH thermite experiments is here.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Pekka Janhunen

    I consider it possible that WTC indeed was taken down by officials, to avoid uncontrolled collapse which could have caused a domino effect in manhattan. Just my speculation, I don’t have any more facts about it than you.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      assuming US authorities able to take an inconvenient decision with no preparation, no debate, no legal coverage, no POTUS prepared to say yes, is a bit overestimating them.

      they could not even down a hijacked plane, and the passenger had to do the job.

      Le Moniteur du batiment (building enginering magazine) have a pay paper magazine explaining why the building colapsed (iron skeleton, thermal insulation tornout by kerozen blast).
      A french building may not be so high, but would better (yet not indefinitely) resist because of armed concrete skeleton.

      no building was ever prepared to that in fact, except maybe pentagon wall, who resisted better, but anyway they prepared for a truck blast, not a high velocity fluid blast followed by kerozen acceleted massive fire.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        If such procedure is in the city fire department’s red book, then no debate occurs. Of course, any building collapses by gravity if a fire weakens it for long enough, but how symmetrical such natural collapse is, is another question.

      • Ged

        Indeed. My uncle was in the Pentagon at the time it got hit. The only reason the Pentagon resisted so well is the plane by sheer luck hit the only side that was undergoing renovations, which included reinforcing and structure with armor to protect against bombs and missile strikes. That is also why the death toll was surprisingly low (no less tragic). None of the other sides were armored, and if they had been hit the plane would have torn straight through.

    • Omega Z

      I can place a dozen 15 pound bowling balls on my kitchen table with no problems. However, I can Drop a single 15 pound bowling ball on it from 20 foot and obliterate it.

      Tall buildings are built- each floor able to withstand the weight of all the additional floors to follow. Within the engineered design & material strengths plus safety.margin . That safety margin does not include the pile driver impact effect.

      Taking out mid level floors of the Towers set the stage taking out major architectural support. The extreme heat from the burning fuel allowed the upper structures to start to free fall with impact much greater then it’s basic mass dead weight that the lower levels were designed to withstand.

      Bin Laden’s family has a construction background and would be aware of architectural support’s as well as having access to experts to do the destructive calculations. On observation neither aircraft hit the towers flat horizontal, but hit both towers at a specific angle, thus taking out major structural support on multiple levels.

      The U.S. Government could easily explain the coming down of the WTC towers. There is a very good reason they don’t. They don’t want to advertise to all the World(psycho’s) that all tall buildings would succumb to the same laws of physics.

      You would find much of the general population would no longer want to work or live in towers greater the 10 stories in height. This would be a major draw back to Nations who want to fit as many people as possible into the smallest footprint. This would be economically devastating to U.S. cities like New York, Dallas, Huston, Chicago and many more with a major investments in skyscrapers.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        as I’ve heard the twon tower, like many us buildings, was build with steel pilars, at it’s core (not outside).
        this is probably the cause of the fact that the colapse was symetrical, because it was from the core who was weakened.
        once started velocity was increased and there was no way to stop it.

        in fact it was not so symetrical when it begun, but with speed the collapse was getting more regular.

        the way professional make bildin colapse is not so different, they weaken structural pilars and once started symetrically from the top, and as no structural pilars oppose an asymetrical resistance, all fall regularly.

        Don’t blame malevolence when incompetence can explain it too.

        CIA/FBI independence, a key to constitution and public freedom, is a problem in anti-terror.

        I’ve just read an article in france explaining that cold-war spy/intelligence required high level a secrecy and insulation of knowledge, while anti-terror requires data sharing to react quickly even if imperfectly.

        the problems is that, as Snowden show, this increase the chance of leak.
        There should be , unlike with cold war black ops, no inconvenient data to leak in Wikileaks, because it will leak. all will leak.
        even the hacking tools of CIA recently leaked, not only allowing countries and companies spied by US to detect it retrospectively, but also hackers of all planet to benefit from zero-day vulnerabilities that CIA refused to signal to companies.

        this is the end. my job will change soon, as all our method to firewall and ensure trust is collapsing under complexity and human factors.

  • Alan Smith

    I assure you we are serious. This is about actually PROVING what is impossible, rather than just saying something is impossible. If we do this right, never again will a skeptic be able to say ‘its just a chemical reaction’ because we will over the course of about 3 experiments have proved that even one of the most exothermic chemical reactions known cannot approach the energy output of a true LENR system.

    • bachcole

      My “get serious” was not directed at you. It was directed at those who remain skeptical of the two tests in 2013 and 2014.

  • Mats002

    Agree. Also it was before they started with prior baking procedures which gave COP>1 and some radiation bursts.

  • Curbina

    Off topic: Anyone else having trouble To get LENR-forum To load? Seems the page crashed.

    • Mats002

      I got this message:

      Page is currently in maintenance mode:

      Dear user,
      we are offline for some maintenance work.
      Please try again later.

      Your LENR Forum Team

      • sam

        Got the same message.
        Do you know who runs Lener forum?

        • Mats002

          Nope, but I presume the moderators of the forum (Alan is one) can contact the founder David (don’t remember his last name)

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          founder/owner is David Nygren
          System Admin is Barty
          Nb: I’m only a well known client, friend with the boss, with privilege to clean the kitchen sometime.

    • Alan Smith

      It should be back up soon AFAIK. Just routine s’ware upgrades and hosing down a few of the usual suspects.

    • artefact

      It works now.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    nb: a russian post that I caught (don’t remember where, vk I think) explains “à la parkhomov/e-cat” heat with reversible chemical reactions involving LiAlH.*For him it would store heat, and make burst apear when strored energy is released.

    However he propose high energy electrin triggered reactions (like Me356 says, or like some description in rossi patent)

    no idea if it is solid

  • Zephir

    It’s just me – or the LENR community gets a bit desperate/bored from the lack of more enlightening news?

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

      Or indeed ANY real news. Inevitable I suppose, given the legal mire and ongoing suppression that have enveloped cold fusion.

      • Ged

        Well, who can blame people for wanting an excuse to play with thermite?

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

          True.

      • MasterBlaster7

        We are all just waiting Rossi to get those factories up and running. I think those are the only updates that really matter right now. Waiting for product.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    The video and experiment is focused on the idea that thermite would not really produce the LENR effect that so many have seen.

    So in this light it’s a good video – as it quite much shows that LENR heat effects are far different.

    What’s most interesting in many LENR success stories is how long such reactors run.

    Dr. Hagalson from MIT had reactors run for 290+ days.

    So to make a “melt down”, thermite might do the trick, but success LENR are slow heat releases and often over extended periods of time measured in days, if not longer.

    All in all, the video is positive since it really shows that LENR certainly not chemical based on thermite.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Frechette

      His name is Hagelstein. Hail stone in english.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You can eliminate all such chemical reactions but discounting first events. Fuels do not burn twice.

    • TVulgaris

      A true-believing skeptic could point out some reversible pathway to allow for such fraud. They would be totally blue-sky, well beyond the reach of any except very well-funded industrial or institutional labs. It is always much more straightforward to opt for an explanation involving image and data processing.

  • hunfgerh

    A ready Thermit-mix (Fe2O3 + Al) burns down after ignition within a short
    time. But, has e.g. Al formed before by upstream reaction, time is determined by
    this upstream reactions. See my comment

    Always Open Thread!

    hunfgerh a year ago

    Rossi (hot cat) and Parkohomov -reactor
    Facts:
    A powder mixture of Ni and LiAlH4 (9:1) is electrically heated in a closed Al2O3-tube by a heating coil.
    The temperature of the reactor tube increases to values of about 1400 – 1600 oC. The energy balance yields E(out) > E(in). That means the external power source (heating coil) must an internal energy source (?) added. The origine of the additive energy sources is in the dark.
    Attempt to explain it
    Up to 800 oC the following endothermic reactions dominate (source Wikipedia)
    150 – 175 oC) 6 LiAlH4 = 2 Li3AlH6 + 4 Al + 6 H2 H 3,46 KJ/mol
    220 – 270 oC) 2 Li3AlH6 = 6 LiH + 2 Al + 3 H2 H 14,46 KJ/mol
    585 – 606 oC) 6 LiH + 6 Al = 6 LiAl + 3 H2 H 34,39 KJ/mol
    ______________________________
    6 LiAlH4 = 6 LiAl + 12 H2
    600 – 800 oC 4 Al2O3 + 12 H2 = 8 Al + 12 H2O H 813 KJ/mol
    About 800 oC the following exothermic reaction can complete
    8 Ni + 8 Al = 8 NiAl H >-1000 KJ/mol
    All reactions added
    3 LiAlH4 + 2 Al2O3 + 4 Ni = 3 LiAl + 4 NiAl + 6 H2O
    The extra power comes from the reaction (Ni + Al). The industriell use see

    http://www.google.com/patents/

  • Manuel Cruz

    Impossible. Termite is an ultra-fast reaction. It would not last.

  • Billy Jackson

    This is called grasping at straws.. Thermite burns at much higher temperatures (4000 degrees+), its also not going to burn for days. as you see.. half a gram lasted less than a second.. now explain how 2 or 3 grams is going to last for days (or months) as the reactors put out continuous steady heat.

    Sorry all the evidence both in the video and over the course of several of the tests.. Thermite does not fit the profile nor is it long lasting enough to enhance any LENR effects beyond a brief burst of heat that is short lived, unsustainable and outside of all the profile readings that we have seen on the reports.

    • Sam

      The experiment was never run with slow thermite encapsulated in a reactor. We might try that someday as well. From a safety point of view, it could be valuable to study.

    • Alan Smith

      Hi Billy. This is an experiment to prove what CANNOT be done. The series of experiments isn’t finished yet- and if you read the PDF you will learn more about what is possible. You will be surprised! BTW – Slow Thermite can be made (probably) – that is the next video in this series.

      • Billy Jackson

        I wish you lots of luck with it. the video, the thread were hinting at the possibility of thermite being involved hence my statement. I have been wrong before, all to frequently to be honest 🙂

  • Warthog

    It’s your time to waste, but shouldn’t the skeptics be doing this experiment?? I think the effort would be better spent on replicating the real thing.

    • Sam

      Hi Warthog – The two main experiments Alan made this week was a 24/7 durability test, as well a test influenced by commentators here and on other forums, to use stainless steel fuel powder capsulation.

      • Warthog

        Sorry, but I still think this is a waste of time and money. I hope he used his own funds rather than the scarce cash donated to the MFMP.

        • Sam

          Yes, the costs to carry out these experiments was less than ten dollars, including equipment and chemicals. Half the cost of a pizza dinner for one person in UK. This is negligible compared to the hundreds we’ve spent out of our own pockets, this week and also last week.

          As for mfmp, they are independent from lfh. We don’t have any access to their bank accounts or say about how they spend their donations.

          • Warthog

            Dude, I am a PhD experimental analytical chemist who designs analysis instrumentation. I see WAY more than ten dollars worth of supplies and equipment in those vids.

            • Alan Smith

              Sam meant consumables. His first language is Martian.

              • Warthog

                I prefer Klingon, myself. Especially when doing Shakespeare.

        • Alan Smith

          Hi Warthog. Of course we use our own money for all our research. And we have also made several donations in cash and in kind to MFMP who we enjoy excellent relations with. So it’s our time and our money. We just wanted to show the skeptics who claim that Thermite can be used to fake LENR that they are ‘barking up a gumtree’. With a certain person up in court soon, any areas of doubt about the reality of Ni/H LENR that can be removed by performing public open science experiments is IMHO a dam fine thing. I hope you will see more clearly where this is going when the next vidoes are published.

    • Zephir

      Duh! Why not to start with high voltage discharge experiments (in me356 style) finally? The thermally initiated cold fusion is notoriously unreliable.

  • artefact

    “Now I moved into the metal workshop and set up a few grams of .. he he he thermite” 🙂
    I love your videos!

    • Mats002

      Me too, especially the (not) hold backed he-he-he! ^^

    • Ged

      Just wait till they try Marmite!

      • pg

        Vegemite?