The Rossi Effect: Beyond the Mud and the FUD (Hank Mills)

The following post has been submitted by Hank Mills

Various combinations of nickel, lithium, and hydrogen can be combined to produce massive excess heat beyond any possible chemical reaction: in my personal opinion, enough evidence has been provided to substantiate this statement beyond a reasonable doubt. Although this phenomenon — the “Rossi Effec t” — is not yet always repeatable, the diverse array of replications that have taken place scream loudly that it is a reality. The number of individuals who have claimed to produce excess heat continues to grow. However, a legal war that has spilled over onto the internet threatens to distract observers and interested parties from further experimentation. Due to the focus on the conflict rather than the technology, the open dissemination of the critical parameters needed to allow for “guaranteed to work” replications may be delayed.

For mainstream science to consider a controversial technology to be real, there must be a set of precise instructions that allow for replication of the effect. A scientist must be able to use materials “A” within certain parameters “B” under c ertain conditions “C” to get the expected result that is far beyond the margin of error “D.” We don’t have such a formula for the Rossi Effect. Multiple researchers seem to have produced high levels of excess heat; a few of them have seemingly been able to do so repeatedly. But not a single individual has offered an instruction sheet which — if followed in excruciating detail — would offer an ultra high success rate.
Researchers who have successfully replicated the E-Cat have shared a good bit of information; for example, Alexander Parkhmov, N. Stepanov, Songsheng Jiang, and others have published in depth test reports. These accounts provide many tips and suggestions that could potentially assist individuals working to validate the Rossi Effect. But so far these papers fail to explain why some individuals obtain excess heat on the first attempt, and others don’t seem to produce a single watt after dozens of runs.

This continuous enigma is what prevents the “Rossi Effect” from becoming the number one top news story. The ability to produce this phenomenon ON DEMAND at HIGH POWER would rattle our civilization in a way we cannot imagine. Literally, this combination of common and almost inexhaustible elements would represent a source of energy orders of magnitude ahead of any competitor. With a possible power density of 1000 watts (or higher) per gram of fuel, photo-voltaic and wind technologies would be destroyed. A massive shift would begin taking us away from expensive conventional “renewable” energy towards dirt cheap nuclear power. The human thirst for energy would finally be quenched. If not forever, at least for hundreds of years.

But humans like scandal, intrigue, gossip, and innuendo. The current battle between Industrial Heat and Andrea Rossi has brought out the worst in many otherwise intelligent and decent individuals, providing soap opera like entertainment to some and a sad tragedy to others. With so little factual information out in the open — completely vetted in order to be free of “spin” — there is no rational way to come to an absolute conclusion about the issues being fought over. Most specifically, the performance of the one megawatt plant. But this hasn’t stopped forum users and bloggers from choosing a side, making derogatory statements about the other, and proclaiming their opinion as God’s truth without the hard data required to do so.

I will openly and without reservation state that I feel it is a virtual certainty that the E-Cat is indeed real. To be clear, I’m not an engineer or a professionally trained scientist by any stretch of the imagination, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt if you so desire. But I’ve read and been told of too many experiments — both those conducted by Rossi and by third parties — that produced high levels of excess heat beyond any possible chemical reaction to believe that they are all examples of sloppy measurement, exotic chemical reactions, or outright hoaxing.

For starters, there are accounts of self sustained reactions and meltdowns, occurring after input has been switched off, that eliminate the need for the most sophisticated and precise measurement systems. Next, the quantities of heat produced overtime far exceed (sometimes by orders of magnitude) what could be generated if the grams of Ni and LiAlH4 had been replaced with thermite (iron oxide and aluminum), ignited inside of the reactor, and burned with 100% efficiency over an extended period of time. There is just no chemical fuel that comes near to the energy densities reported. Finally, the seemingly most successful replications have came from highly qualified, well educated individuals with ties to academia or scientific research. These individuals — separated sometimes by thousands of miles — would have little to no rational reason to intentionally exaggerate or lie.

When it comes to the one year test of the one megawatt plant, I can only state that I expect it produced some level of excess heat — due to the fact so many other tests of Ni-Li-H systems have done so. But I will not say much more, because I do not h ave access to the ERV report. And, to be honest, I don’t care to dwell on the topic. The fact is that right now “hot cat” reactors, capable of operating at temperatures far higher than those in the shipping container locked up in Doral, Florida, can be built by third parties.

Procure a suitable reactor core, add a tenth of a gram of LiAlH4, add nine tenths of a gram of nickel powder, wrap it with a suitable resistor like Kanthal A1, seal the ends adequately, protect the heating element from oxidation, heat the whole unit up to 1200-1300C, and apply whatever wave forms you desire (perhaps square waves): you have a chance to see massive excess heat and even self sustain for minutes to hours after turning off the input. But there is no guarantee of success. You may have to try repeatedly, use different brands of fuel, vary the ratio of empty space, perform some pre-cleaning on the nickel to remove oxidation, or even add some supplemental hydrogen. But the number of successful tests so far indicate that with enough effort you will eventually find excess heat.

What we as a loosely knit, sometimes disfunctional, and sometimes cut-throat community need to do is figure out how to avoid all the trial and error required to produce the effect. Forget about the legal battle, stop reading the posts by extremists on both sides, and don’t look at the updates on the court docket; instead, do whatever you can to encourage, assist, and provide support for replicators who pledge to openly share their results and discoveries.

My hope — as I’ve already stated multiple times — is for a formula to be made available that will allow for the “Rossi Effect” to be replicated by any qualified individual who is willing to abide by specific guidelines: with the purpose of forcing this technology to be accepted as real by the mainstream world. This can happen regardless of the less than flattering information that will most likely come out about BOTH Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat.

Let’s get real: no one is perfect. Consider the candidates running for President of the United States. I would be willing to wager, if I w ere a gambler, that the vast majority of Republicans and Democrats see major flaws in their nominee. Even if they would be hesitant to speak openly about such issues, they observe them and are not oblivious to reality. I expect the same is true about Industrial Heat, Leonardo Corporation, and the individuals who operate both of these entities. When the court case comes to an end, unless a settlement is reached, I don’t think either party will walk away wearing a white suit without a spec of dust, so to speak. So arguing about who is the right and who is in the wrong is for the most part pointless.

Conversely, focusing on coming up with a working recipe is not. The moment a recipe, backed up by multiple successful tests by different parties, is released, the grip that has been keeping most of the world ignorant will be released. An impossible snake-oil fantasy will have become hard fact: indisputable even to the most zealous cynics.

So let’s keep focused in the days, weeks, and months to come. Don’t get caught up in the mud slinging that is bound to intensify as the legal battle heats up. Expect ahead of time that whichever “side” you feel more drawn towards is probably going to be revealed as totally less than spotless and unblemished, and remember that the technology is what really matters. I’d suggest keeping these three themes present in your mind.

– Continual testing to determine the critical parameters needed to trigger the effect.

– Absolute Openness in sharing the knowledge about these critical parameters.

– Non-participation in conflicts, arguments, and wars that are only distractions.

We CAN move this technology forward if we focus on the above. When I get caught up in emotion, frustrated with the statements of muckrakers on various forums, I like to think about what’s possible with an energy source like the E-Cat. The wonders that come to mind help keep me focused, because they could lead to a technologically advanced world with far less suffering that I’d be proud to live in.

Earth doesn’t have to remain a hell-planet and humanity a technologically retarded species unless we let ourselves get distracted. We are closer than I think most people realize to “cracking” the E-Cat. Let’s move forward by celebrating those who are performing open experimentation, and renouncing those who seek to slow progress and conceal information that could help fellow replicators. And, for goodness sake, if you are holding onto unreported test results — positive or negative — please publish them immediately. The data could help us reach the point of having a “formula” days, weeks, or months sooner.

Hank Mills

  • cashmemorz

    Which part “wow”s you. I won’t know if I did anything wow worthy unless I get sufficient clue as to what you are referring.

  • sam

    I wonder if R.G. and A.R. Joined forces were they
    could take LENR technology.

  • Rene

    Outside of the distracting litigation, is there anything new to report on LENR, LENR+? Any new experiments?

  • pelgrim108

    English is not my first language and I don’t like typing. My comments are usually very short and a little bit akward. I am not very good at conveiing the right tone for the conversation, and mostly I don’t even try to have a tone. I must remember to add some smileys to my comments as a failsafe.
    🙂 So its all good. My bad.:-)

  • Mats002

    Thanks to sifferkoll, here is the main document for IH/Darden strikes back:
    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/0029.0_Answer.pdf

  • pelgrim108

    Yes, I made a mistake. Its now corrected. ( The names sound simular).

    • Charles

      Had they sounded similar you would not have erred. [Joke – not snobbery].

  • pelgrim108

    Robert Godes talking to Infowars. Just in.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLcSE0bmvug

    • Tom59

      Proposal: Brillouin & e-catworld.com

      • pelgrim108

        Not sure what you are supposing: Robert W. George II is associated with Ecatworld ?

        • Tom59

          Brillouin is doing a lot to promote LENR, open and connected. I have high hopes and would love to hear more from them on this site.

          • pelgrim108

            I agree. I hope it will happen.

    • invient

      I know they say don’t shoot the messenger, but I just can’t watch an Alex Jones or Infowars show with a straight face. These people believe all sorts of conspiracy theory BS, and probably lend very little credibility to LENR

      • pelgrim108

        I think the story of LENR and LENR+ will get to every group eventually.
        Be them Cristians, New Age, Tech-followers, anarchists, anti-globalists, ect.
        I have followed Infowars for the last 12 years and I respect them highly as a trustworthy source of information.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        And the worst ones are the followers of that conspiracy theorist Isaac Newton. You can’t talk to them at all. They insist he’s infallible.

      • sam

        There has been a lot of conspiracy theories regarding
        the Ecat.

  • LION
  • GiveADogABone

    Being a bit inconsistent?
    I distinctly remember you telling me that we don’t need to rehash all the renewable power arguments.
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/07/24/qas-on-e-cat-production-status/
    EEStorFanFibb GiveADogABone • 10 days ago
    I see what camp you’re in. we don’t need to rehash all the renewable power arguments here.

    You state :-
    ‘First of all wind and solar are SAFE, proven and well developed technologies that are the CHEAPEST thing going right now and getting cheaper everyday.’

    When the wind dont blow and the sun dont shine in mid-January when its cold and system maximum demand is hitting the records, what keeps the grid operational? Yes, its the backup plant.

    Does your statement include the cost of the backup plant? No, because if it did the cost of the backup plant plus the cost of the wind and solar would be way higher than the backup plant alone. The necessary combination of the two is grossly uneconomic and only works because of subsidies. Now in the UK nobody will build the backup plant, so that needs big subsidies as well to get any new backup generation built. It really is the economics of the madhouse and the whole thesis delusional.

  • sean

    One thing puzzles me about inventions. Historically, when a discovery or invention is made, it is sometimes recorded that others had discovered or invented similar at the same time. Examples such as the telephone, radio, television, steam engine, light bulb, turbo jet engine as of many others in science and technology. Now today, we have 7.4 Billion people on this planet. Quite a few of these people would be of the smart variety or gifted in these areas. To date and since 1989, Pons & Flieshman and along with Rossi, have been recognised publicly as cold fusion / LENR inventors / developers. Where are the others? Statistically, there should be more LENR out there in parallel circumstances according to life’s chances. It would be nice as stated sometimes here on ECW, that many others in the LENR research field contribute their ideas and practicalities towards a new world energy revolution. Perhaps as some people have said here, it should be open sourced to everyone. Sir Frank Whittle gave his turbojets to the world. Now we can all enjoy for the freedom of flight anywhere in the world. (Though RR, GE and Pratt & Whitney now make huge sums of money from it, LOL.) Saying that, if it were myself with an LENR prototype by using whatever elements that make it work wither by accident of physics, I would have gone straight to a well recognised visible established company that has a history of honesty, wisdom and integrity, and ask them to help develop it through open science. Again an example of the three major jet engine manufactures did just that, with the early Whittle engine to the mighty efficient jet engines we have today. Put in the effort now, we can all make some money later, especially with the spin offs. Its a win, win situation for all of us.

    • Ged

      Well, you do have the NANOR at MIT, Brillouin, and DGT (though DGT was a variant of Rossi’s early tech, which they took and then ran with in a whole other direction it seems they couldn’t control well). Canon, Mitsubishi, and Toyota have also done successful LENR work, and Airbus has extreme interest in it enough to hold an entire conference and make patents. And NASA had this cool polywell chip for testing multiple LENR fuel mixtures at once to find the optimal one. Then you have smaller time researchers like in China and Russia. There is actually quite a surprising number of people working on it.

      A lot is kept on the hush and hush because of the stigma towards CF and the reputation trap, but most is just a matter of looking. But some also just… disappears. Like the NASA work. It suddenly went dark with no word on positive or negative results, just the original talk about it working so far and then making that polywell chip for massive parallel fuel testings, and then poof. Who knows if budget constraints just shut that down or not. And a lot of the work just dies because they can’t scale the power release up beyond a “well that’s nice” level (e.g. NANOR).

      But you’re right; it’s a wide world, and it is full of a lot more things than we can keep track of.

    • Rene

      ” a well recognised visible established company that has a history of honesty, wisdom and integrity, “, there’s your problem 🙂 Tough to find those.

    • Omega Z

      ->”Sir Frank Whittle gave his turbojets to the world.”

      “While writing his thesis he formulated the fundamental concepts that led to the creation of the turbojet engine, taking out a patent on his design in 1930.”
      ————————————————————————–
      Frank Whittle merely shared his concept. GE, RR and Pratt & Whitney all created their own versions/designs, patented them and in time brought them to market. No one gave them a working product. They had to create it themselves. They patented their work. They did not share it.

      The concept of LENR is already out there. Rossi, Piantelli, Godes and many others are following a similar path as above. Should they succeed, they will patent and bring it to market.

      As to the Big Boys, you need to ask them why they are not involved. At least not publically. Possibly, they will do as they have done in the past. Wait for some nobody to create a successful device, buy them out and claim they did it all by themselves.

      In the mid 90’s, the U.S. Big 3 and a couple foriegn auto makers displayed their designs of the coming electric cars. All while claiming to have spent millions for their design and development. Reality. They bought these designs(For Million$) from hobbyists home built garage creations.

      I recall the GM’s electric as the exact same blue prints of a hobbyist home built EV. I had the prints from the early 80’s. They didn’t change a single iota of the design. Though technically, I guess you could claim having spent million$ for their design and development by purchasing them.

      • Sean

        Ok, I will pass your information to my Dad (ex- RAF now 91). when he gets back from Vancouver on the 10th. My Dad worked and drafted drawings for Frank Whittle at Power Jets in Narborough Leicestershire. He had been very involved with Frank. He also later worked for English Electric then Rolls Royce Derby as a professional engineer. Later with R.R. Montreal. I am surrounded with Jet engine history and technology. I have also met and talked with Frank Whittle. Some stories are con-screwed and are not factual. My Dad was in charge of the Tyne and Spey engines. He also built the test beds for the RB211 built at the R.R. Montreal base. He also set up engineering and test beds for Canadian Helicopter in Vancouver. GE did, in actual fact according to my knowledge received a working Jet engine along with improved designs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_J31
        Here is an excerpt from the Midland Air Museum. (“Incredibly, having given away the plans for the jet engine to the Americans along with much of the Miles M.52 research, the new government gave Rolls-Royce jet engines to the Russians as well, resulting in the quick development of the MiG-15 fighter aircraft.”) Though I will verify that article with my Dad also. I agree with you that a lot of hobbyists contributed to many products we have today. Such as the PC. Also Sir Christopher Cockerell with the hovercraft designed on his kitchen table and all that. Aerospace company’s, in my opinion are usually held to the highest of standards. I would far better trust them than IH. After all you are at 35 thousand feet sipping your coffee, so you must trust them for providing you the safest form of travel. They even got us to the moon and back. I am sure BAE / Nasa is involved. Elon Musk probably has his eyes on it also. Another thing, anything to do with flight safety in design has always been shared for free between Aerospace manufactures. I cannot see any reason why LENR / Rossi or others would not do the same to help the world to the next fire revolution. Rossi would surely be rewarded whatever the circumstances. The public would see to that. As with all of us here on ECW would gladly pay him in kind for a home ecat. Market potential (7.4 Billion customers). I have put my order in. Hope you have put yours Omega Z in too.

  • Ged

    How do you figure? All the data, and the methods and equipment used to obtain that data, are available to all (along with copious videos of entire experiments). What you say really doesn’t make any sense–you can verify and analyse everything yourself so you don’t need to rely on “claims”. Nothing is vague, but if you don’t understand something just ask them.

  • georgehants

    Just apologize to everybody for bringing up my mostly unpopular views about Cold Fusion being used as quickly as possible for the benefit of the planet.
    Thanks to those that answered, will now retire again and let you get back to the more important discussion, of the upcoming next episode in the crazy court case to determine who gains personal billions. (if genuine)

    • sam

      Different views are important.
      It is what makes the blog interesting.

      • Robert Munson

        When will the IH accusations come out? Thought it was today?

        • Ged

          It is due today, but plenty of time left in the day. And takes a little time for the filing to appear on PACER for us to see.

    • Billy Jackson

      George nothing is wrong with your views. I find them sometimes a bit unrealistic and overly optimistic at times. But you have every right to fight for the point of view that you believe in. I don’t have to agree with you in order to respect your opinion even if i choose to support a different side. Respect always.

      • georgehants

        Billy, many thanks.

  • Rene

    I wrote “The MFMP folks have yet to make a clear and sustaining heat signature that demonstrates LENR+. “

  • Billy Jackson

    Well thought out and well said Hank.

  • Zephir

    /* My hope — as I’ve already stated multiple times — is for a formula to be
    made available that will allow for the “Rossi Effect” to be replicated
    by any qualified individual who is willing to abide by specific
    guidelines: with the purpose of forcing this technology to be accepted
    as real by the mainstream world */

    IMO the original Piantelli/Rossi mixture of Ni-LiAlH4 is not worth to replicate with only EM stimulation: the electric discharge is the key for reproducible and controllable cold fusion.

  • cashmemorz

    If it comes down to purpose, then nature should be observed from point of view of evolution. There, purpose is not the key but survival of the ones that fit into the system (survival of the fittest as defined by geneticists). Beyond that the larger picture recently developed in Physics re the Holographic universe shows the information in the outer shell as defining everything inside to the extent that the inside of the shell is actually empty and we are virtual via the info in the shell as much as a photographic hologram has nothing on the space where the image is see. At that point we have no purpose except as each person would define it taking into consideration that we are actually virtual. Then the shell is more real and we are to strive for the reality of the shell. Whatever that would mean is difficult to concieve of. As if the shell is the heaven of religion and that is the ultimate reality of who ever is controlling the shell and beyond.

  • Zephir

    /* First of all wind and solar are SAFE, proven and well developed
    technologies that are the CHEAPEST thing going right now and getting
    cheaper everyday */

    They’re not sustainable anyway. Once you get into hard numbers, then you’ll find with surprise, that the solar energy can replace the coal not even theoretically. Renewable
    energy needs copper, steel, aluminium, indium, neodym and concrete, the production of which not only does pollute the life environment – it also requires lotta energy by itself.

    If the contribution from wind turbines and solar energy to global energy production is to rise from the current 400 TWh to 12,000 TWh in 2035 and 25,000 TWh in 2050, as projected by the World Wide Fund for Nature, about 3,200 million tonnes of steel, 310 million tonnes of aluminium and 40 million tonnes of copper will be required to build the latest generations of wind and solar facilities. This corresponds to a 5 to 18% annual increase in the global production of these metals for the next 40 years. Most of indium is consumed with solar cell industry – but we have reserves of indium to the next fifteen years only.

    This is not how the sustainable evolution is supposed to look like… And 25,000 TWh is still just one sixth of the total world energy consumption. To put it clearly, a shift to renewable energy will just replace one non-renewable resource (fossil fuel) with another (metals and minerals). Right now wind and solar energy meet only about 1 percent of global demand; hydroelectricity meets about 7 percent. For example, to match the power generated by fossil fuels or nuclear power stations, the construction of solar energy farms and wind turbines will gobble up 15 times more concrete, 90 times more aluminum and 50 times more iron, copper and glass. Also, the wind turbines only work when there’s wind, although not too much, and the solar panels only work during the day and then only when it’s not cloudy. Other than that, the “renewable energy is “perfect”….

    • Ged

      Certainly makes a strong case for asteroid mining, particularly for the indium.

      • georgehants

        Ged, we may one day find out the True position regarding transmutation involved with Cold Fusion.
        This could possibly bypass all need for rare raw materials.

  • georgehants

    lkelemen, no and enemies are relative and it takes a very wise person to take every opportunity for peace.

  • peacelovewoodstock

    “First of all wind and solar are … the CHEAPEST thing going right now”

    ??

    Certainly not cheaper than coal, natural gas, oil, biomass, nuclear, not to mention hydropower. In fact, solar and wind (excluding offshore wind farms) are the most costly sources of power.

    LENR promises to be cheaper than any of these, hence the excitement!

    • cashmemorz

      Yes. The tech material itself is limited, politically unstable and power intensive to mine, refine, manufacture, requires large batteries or interim power(Fossil fuels) for off times. Destablizes grid control and power because of unpredictable fluctuations at cloudy times, still long term payoff, unstable for long term planning by rapidly replacing newer ever increasingly efficient photo voltaics for market. Good for isolated areas, outer space ie. where it is a must despite all of the above. Looked good at first when all of the above was not yet encountered or guessed at.

  • Ged

    Honestly, hot fusion bombs (H-bombs) will always be far more powerful. Next step up from that is antimatter.

    Only thing cold (it’s “cold” because the reaction is slow and not explosive) fusion has going for it in that realm is plentiful and cheap materials; but there has yet to be any observations of cold fusion reactions running away enough to make a true explosion.

  • Hank Mills

    All of the energy people use fighting each other on online forums could be better spent convincing qualified people (who would have access to a safe laboratory setting) to attempt replication of the Ni-Li-H effect. Consider the fact that regardless who wins or loses the court case, the world isn’t going to pay attention to this technology unless there is a huge number of replications or a product goes on the market (either for home or industrial use) that anyone with the cash can purchase without waiting months or years for delivery. It may be years before Rossi has a product on the market, so replication is our only option.

    • Gerard McEk

      My guess is that IH will suit Andrea Rossi for massieve fraud and try to stop him bringing e-cats on the commercial market. For that they will ask for a vast amount of money and try to get hem behind bars. The antidote for this that Andrea can use is to bring his formula into the open and give the replicators the chance to prove it works. IP can still be claimed by him, because he has a patent and many in assessment. Still it will be difficult to fight the numerous start-ups appearing everywhere for misusing his IP.
      However, I am sure that AR has also counter claims for IH if they would go my guessed way.

      • Ged

        I think you nailed it, and that seems like a probable strategy. We should find out today how they want to play this, and what data they have. Undoubtably there is evidence and counter evidence, but it would be useful if this feud did spur Rossi to release more IP details of the newer stuff. It could be an ace up his sleeve.

    • sam

      Hank
      Are you working at replicating.

      • Hank Mills

        I am not personally replicating due to space and financial constraints. However, I’m actively engaged on a regular basis with replicators, and I do my best to assist them in anyway I can.

    • Rene

      The MFMP folks have yet to make a clear and sustaining heat signature that demonstrates LENR+. They have asked the parties who do claim success for recipes. None have been forthcoming. Let’s start by getting that instrumented, ready-to-try group the recipes.

      • Ged

        They have something big planned this month, so definitely looking forward to that!

  • georgehants

    Hank a Wonderful report.
    What
    you diplomatically avoid pointing out and I am not so diplomatic, but
    care only for the Truth, is that only Mr Rossi (excluding our secret
    government departments) is the sole cause of a five and a half year
    delay (if genuine) in the release of high output Cold Fusion.
    In this
    time millions have continued to die and suffer and the World continues
    to be raped for resources, that if he was not consumed by a (seeming)
    capitalistic greed and selfishness for wealth and power, would by now
    with his sharing, hopefully have started to be improved.
    As you say the court case is irrelevant time wasting trash, only the release of Cold Fusion matters.
    I certainly invite Mr. Rossi to reply to my points to correct any errors I may have made.
    ———
    Just
    add that combined with this technology from a seemingly brilliant young
    student, the World could change even more for the better.
    With thanks to Jed Rothwell via Vortex.
    ———-
    Lancaster engineering student designs revolutionary energy storage solution.
    http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/new

    • Hank Mills

      Rossi is NOT the sole cause of the delay. The fact is that technologies are stolen and intellectual property is violated on a regular basis. If Rossi had disclosed everything years ago — even with patent protection — his technology would have been stolen and rushed onto the market by third parties in countries like CHINA where intellectual property means nothing. We cannot demand that individuals who have spent great deals of time, money, and labor on a technology to give it away for free.

      • georgehants

        Hank, your view is purely capitalist and everybody has the right to choose there views.
        Some of us believe that all who work for the betterment of society should be well rewarded by that society and not the corruption of capitalism.
        Rossi is the sole cause of the delay, Fact and undeniably unless forced by higher authorities in which case he should inform us all like other brave whistle blowers.
        You can state your views but not change Facts.

        • Chapman

          Does a musician have the right to expect to receive royalties from the sale of their art? Do they have a right to expect that society will institute and enforce measures to combat piracy? OR, does the artist give birth to a creation that should be emancipated immediately upon birth?

          Should all art be free to all, and available without consideration paid to the artist?

          Should all music be royalty free?

          Should all Art, of whatever medium, be uncopyrightable?

          I guess we could ask Bono about that. He has a worldview sympathetic to your own, and yet I still see that he SELLS his music, and will take legal action against piracy channels such as Napster.

          Sir, I contend that Rossi’s work IS his ART, and therefore deserves the same protections and legal rights as is due to any other artistic creation. When you succeed in ending copyright law in its entirety, and bring about the day when all music, all books, and all movies are published directly to the public domain and royalty free, then come back and I will listen to your complaints regarding Rossi’s art being selfishly withheld from the masses.

          But I ask you, When all the artists have died from starvation, or been forced to abandon their artistic pursuits to seek employment at the local Walmart in order to sustain themselves – then what do you think you will be listening to when you turn on your radio? Rush Limbaugh – all stations, 24 hours a day. This is the face of your “Brave New World”.

        • Ovserver

          For the betterment of mankind or for the betterment of the least of 7 billion individuals? Natural selection is good for the health of a species, but it sucks if you are the one being culled.

          • georgehants

            Observer, or your children, who may have grown up to be an enhanced member of the species.

            • Observer

              Even the most enhanced member will lack sustainable achievement if procreation is circumvented.

              A culture’s sustainability requires creating new people to sustain the culture.

              • georgehants

                Observer, I am afraid your reply is confused, without some of our most outstanding human-beings, certain things would have taken much longer to evolve for the benefit of all.
                Your last sentence is so self obvious that I can find nothing to add except a happy sustained culture must be better.

              • Ged

                As many Western cultures and the Japanese are starting to painfully find out. I am sure self preservation will eventually kick in though.

        • William D. Fleming

          The Fact is that Rossi is a free human being who has a right to do whatever he wishes with his technology. None of us has the least right to force Rossi in any way. It is only through his indulgence that we know the little bit we know rather than being totally unaware.

          Bide time.

          • georgehants

            William, a strange comment, nobody is forcing anybody, the merits of the system are being discussed

            • William D. Fleming

              Well it certainly sounds as though you would like to force Rossi to give away his secrets through “higher authorities”, whatever that is.

              Those dreamland utopian systems have never worked in the past. What you are calling “capitalism” is just human beings pooling resources, buying and selling, working together to produce wealth for the good of mankind.

              The fact that some have acces to more money than others hurts no one.

              • georgehants

                William, a sad biased interpretation, I am stating Facts.
                Five and a half years so far and Mr. Rossi following the capitalist system has chosen personal gain over World benefits.
                If you agree with that then fine but please respect those that believe that a better system could be used.

                • William D. Fleming

                  I do respect you. We just disagree on some issues, that’s all. I saw your earlier post, no longer visible, in which you suggested I go on line to learn about the ills of capitalism. Just because something is posted on line doesn’t mean it’s true. Still, I came across this bit for your edification:

                  http://freedomkeys.com/gap.htm

                  Cheers.

              • georgehants

                Repetition

                • cashmemorz

                  Its not the money but the people who do the hurting. Similar to guns or what have you. When unstable or corruptable people get the goods they may misuse whatever gives them power. There will always be those who do bad after they get too much of something. Even street people when they win a lottery tend to give it away to show they have power. So I see it as having power and how one wields it. To do it properly one needs to get smart, wise etc before getting power whether its money, LENR or anything powerful

                • georgehants

                  cashmemorz, all agreed bad Human Nature, so do we just lay back and vote in people who teach us to continue with the faults you outline, or try and change our education to bring out the best in our young children, of which millions prove daily they choose when adult to use empathy gladly.

    • roseland67

      Georgehants,

      Maybe I suggest you replace “truth” with “replicated evidence by multiple sources”.

      Other than that, I agree with you,
      The delay of Ecat, if in fact real, is solely due to Rossi.

      • georgehants

        roseland67, many thanks, the Truth is that Mr. Rossi is solely responsible for the delay in releasing the means to replicate the discoveries that he has announced he has made.
        Many others have tried and are trying to “replicate” these reports, MFMP for example, but Rossi has chosen alone to deny the World his reported findings (if genuine).

    • Ophelia Rump

      You accuse the man who brought the technology forward of holding it back.
      This is self evidently absurd.

      The world which has failed to support his work has held it back.

      Being left to fight for scraps among scavengers has held the technology back.
      Rossi has brought it forward despite them. That is not enough for you, you demand he do that while taking a vow of poverty. Sometimes you speak such nonsense and rhetoric.

      • georgehants

        Ophelia, thank you for your view, Rossi has chosen his route and you instead of saying there must be something wrong with a system that leads to so much suffering for the World that could by now be on the road to improvement choose to attack me.

        • cashmemorz

          Exactly. It is the system. Rossi has to work within it. And he is, making him look less then genuine. But I’m sure Rossi does not care about negative thoughts about him. He has shown he can work hard and make fantastic progress despite the system he is working inside of.

          • georgehants

            cashmemorz, all agreed, the system leads people onto sad paths.
            You may then agree that such a system may benefit from positive changes for the good of all and not just the few.
            Without it Mr. Rossi would have no incentive to hide his secrets and harming others, he would be rewarded and applauded by society for his work for society.

            • Albert D. Kallal

              And what incentive would Rossi have to work all day long without reward?

              And how do you propose to reward these people fairly then? What system are you talking about? What change are you looking for from your socialist brethren?

              What is stopping your socialists now from offering Rossi that supposed reward now?

              Where was that reward for Telsa who died broke and penniless?

              Where were those socialists when Pons & Fleeshman were run out of town – why did they die broke?

              I mean, what a horrible system you socialists have – all those starving people and all they have to do is approach Rossi and give him some reward and the problem is solved.

              The reason why these technologies seldom come from socialist countries is because they don’t support ownership of things like property or invention rights. And without granting people such rights, then few if any inventions come from these socialist countries – as why bother to do all that work when you socialists
              turn a blind eye to such people?

              But boy oh boy, when someone invents the medicine or new technologies? Those socialists are lined up with their hands stretched out asking for that technology that they did not work hard to create in the first place.

              Why bother to invent anything and work hard when the government going to reward you for doing nothing and you can live on handouts from that socialist government?

              The simple matter is socialists counties don’t invent the technologies or medicines we use today.

              The socialists are not funding LENR, not promoting LENR, and not inventing LENR. So why are you pushing a system that failed to support LENR, failed to fund LENR and is holding back LENR.

              Exactly who’s causing the delay here? If that socialist system was going to reward Rossi, then we would have LENR by now.

              If you going to blame some system, clearly your socialists views and ideas have failed us. Rossi done huge for LENR, and where are all you socialist funding and inventing LENR to save all those starving people? What a huge bout of hypocrisy here! How can you stand here and suggest socialism when it done ZERO in terms of pushing and working to fund LENR? But wow, when it comes to asking for someone to give away all their hard work? – you’re lined up at the pig trough looking for the handout.

              Exactly where are all those socialists working on and funding LENR – nothing stopping those socialists from working on LENR and funding LENR – it is high time you socialists put your money where your mouths are. Why are
              your socialist views failing society and why are not those socialist government’s
              funding LENR and preventing all those starving children now?

              Last time I looked at the last Paris summit in the range of 100+ billion was pledged for global warming – yet not one penny of those MASSIVE amounts of billions is not going into LENR or even being offered to Rossi. What a failure! And virtually 99% of that money is simply wealth western nations giving handouts to the poorer socialist countries of the world. The money simply going into big government pockets for their big socialist programs. So 100+ billion pledged for the environment – and they can’t come up with ONE dime for LENR?
              You living in a pink socialist dream world in which you think out of the blue they will fund LENR or offer Rossi a reward – they don’t offer anything, but certainly are willing to take things away from Rossi. You then attempt to blame some other system when you FAIL to point out the massive failure of your ideas, your views, and your socialist ideology that has failed so utterly horrible on this issue.

              Regards,
              Albert D. Kallal
              Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Ophelia Rump

          Oh don’t be glum, we still love you georgehants!

          I do not attack you only that silly rhetoric. You I know are much better than that.

    • sam

      If I studied and worked for many years using my own money while every one else was doing very
      little I would say screw you to.
      You all will receive the benifits
      of my work when I get paid.
      I am not going to be on the list
      of Scientists that Got the pat on the back and that’s sucker speech.

      • georgehants

        sam, I did mention that a system where those helping society are thanked and rewards by that same society would seem sensible.

        • cashmemorz

          Downloading anything these days is the fault of partly the person doing the downloading and partly the fault of the system. You cannot separate the two. Just because a conscious person has the ability to choose to download or not does not make the problem go away. Therefore it is a system. Given that it is a system then it has to be admitted and has to be worked with. The way to work with it is to take the good with the bad. The creator of a copyrighted item can either use the pirated copies to make the creator more known. It is part of the system. Who continues to take the traditional view of simply prosecuting pirates is fighting a losing battle. This applies to LENR tech as much as any other. I think that GeorgeHants will want that kind of society which already exists.

          • georgehants

            cashmemorz, you miss my point, I am talking about a system such as selfish, greedy capitalism where there is a sad temptation for Mr. Rossi to allow untold suffering in the World for his own benefit, or a system that automatically rewards people for their work, in which case Cold Fusion would be free and available (if genuine) for the whole World to improve and utilize immediately without five and a half years delay and counting.

            • Albert D. Kallal

              And how do you propose to reward these people fairly then? What system are you talking about?

              The reason why these technologies seldom come from socialist countries is because they don’t support ownership of things like property or invention rights. And without granting people such rights, then few if any inventions come from these socialist countries – as why bother and for what reward?

              But boy oh boy, when someone invents the medicine or new technologies? Those socialists are lined up with their hands stretched out asking for that technology that they did not work hard to create in the first place.

              Why bother to invent anything and work hard when the government going to reward you for doing nothing and you can live on handouts from that socialist government?

              The simple matter is socialists counties don’t invent the technologies or medicines we use today.

              And if those socialist countries and systems are so great and so caring about starving people, then why are these counties not lined up and throwing huge amount of money into LENR or even throwing money at Rossi?

              Exactly who’s causing the delay here? If that socialist system was going to reward Rossi, then we would have LENR by now. Cleary that system has failed to support LENR, failed to invent LENR, and has failed even to spend money on researching LENR.

              If you think the involved delay and cost in lives due to socialist countries not supporting LENR is justified, then you decision is respected.

              Regards,
              Albert D. Kallal
              Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • sam

          I wonder if A.R. rewarded the Swedish and Italian Scientists that worked with him.If he will reward F&P who spent $100000 of there
          own money on research and
          we’re A.R. says he got the
          incentive to study CF.

          • georgehants

            sam, I do not understand your point, all these people could fairly be rewarded by the society that gains from their work

            • sam

              I am sure they do feel rewarded for what they have done for society.
              But the real driving force to get things done is monetary.

    • Rene

      The link goes to a puff piece that is now replicated in many other WEB sites. The only improvement that can be gleaned by that article is the ability to *theoretically* double the RPMs of existing flywheel energy storage system by using an advanced suspension system that can handle greater shock events to prevent bottoming out the spin points.
      The biggest problem with FES systems is how to deal with failures, especially in seismic events aka earthquakes. Flywheels are now designed using filament wound carbon composites that release all that storage energy more gently when the rotors fall apart. There’s no way an FES is going to power an automobile.
      Also that claim about 30 years being so much better than batteries is dated. Saltwater batteries last 25 years. Vanadium redox batteries have similar lifespans.

      A better article describing the suspension system:
      http://www.theengineer.co.uk/issues/the-student-engineer/lancaster-student-creates-new-suspension-design/

      • georgehants

        Rene, very glad to have your expert opinion, if you don’t mind I will wait for the future to judge any benefits or otherwise.
        Just like Cold Fusion etc.

        • Rene

          I do mind you pretending to know what you are talking about and dismissing what I wrote. But, there is room in this world for many beliefs.
          Flywheel storage works really well in absorbing and releasing very short term peak power. They are used in many large applications like transportation systems, notably electric rail. Long term storage, especially domestic usage has been dismal at best.

          Living off-grid, I have studied all the energy storage systems because my PV system generates massive surplus energy most of the year but has shortfalls during the winter months. FES was intriguing:
          http://www.velkess.com/flywheel.html

          The last attempt at domestic FES went under:
          http://www.velkess.com/letter.html

          Here is how it was extolled before it did go under:
          http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-flywheel-design/
          Someday maybe, but battery tech has improved much to erode the viability of FES. Even so, it isn’t enough. Ideally you want to store the entirety of the season’s energy surplus to make up the winter’s energy shortfall, and that amounts to almost 2MWh in places like California.
          For now it is still less expensive to have backup generator to deal with the accumulated energy shortfall every few days https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6090a1283ba8b55209942c86aef07e081aaeb079db5d33b0e0a81f81d410187d.jpg , but that is use of fossil fuels.
          Hydrogen storage / fuel cell is another possibility but that too has not matured.

          • georgehants

            Rene, I will repeat, I have no idea what you are talking about,
            I am sure your opinion is Wonderful and deserves you putting up your own comment addressed to those wishing to discuss your opinion and discussing with the student doing the Research.
            I did not dismiss what you wrote but told you honestly that I will wait for the future to reveal reality as with Cold Fusion etc.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            In my opinion hydrogen storage, though theoretically a feasible way to store and quickly convert energy, is put forward to put off other technologies that are short-term feasible, like battery storage. By the way, I worked with a research group that was looking at hydrogen liquefaction for the National Aerospace Plane (now defunct). I am well aware of the potential.

            The gains in energy storage density for batteries has been amazing, mostly pushed by cell phones and portable electronic devices.

            I have heard that the Bell System could get 30+ years of useful life out of lead-acid batteries, though they typically handle short term outages, not deep discharge.

            • Rene

              The AGM batteries I have used lasted 16 years with 15% infant mortality ( premature death before 5 years). They are presently at 50% original capacity. Careful charge/discharge makes that happen. The Aquion no-lead batteries have a 20-25 year lifespan, so yes, battery tech is much better.
              The unfortunate part is expense. I’d rather have the ability to store three month’s worth of power with the summer surplus, but the expense of that much capacity makes it not viable.

            • Rene

              A shame about the aerospace plane.
              Several years ago when I looked at the hydrogen cycle for PV storage, the round trip efficiency was somewhere around 50% and it required an expensive and low life fuel cell. I should take a look again to see how things fare in the present.

          • Ged

            Wow, that is an impressive surplus. Even that new Tesla Powerwall battery pack doesn’t come anywhere close to your needs and is expensive. Energy storage is hard; we really need a breakthrough in that. http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/09/got-storage-how-hard-can-it-be/

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Hi George, thanks for that article about Abby’s new fly wheel invention. I note that Abby has applied for a patent. When Abby starts defending per IP, do you believe Abby will be the “sole cause of” delaying the implementation of her invention? In fact, lets go back to when she first got her idea for the invention. What do you think motivated her, was it, in your words, a, “world (which) continues to be raped for resources” or do you think personal economic gain had anything to do with it? I bet there were many times when Abby got frustrated with the many problems associated with inventing, do you think, this 21 year old thought was, in your words, “millions (will) continue to die and suffer”, or was it, “wow, if I can make this work it will be worth millions.” George, get real.

      • cashmemorz

        If there will be millions for her then at some point what to do with it beyond personal luxuries will begin to make a “powerful” impression. If she is smart wise etc then the money wont corrupt her. If corrupted then it will lead to showing off, hoarding or other bad stuff

        • georgehants

          cashmemorz, so wise, even the most greedy of us cannot sensibly eat more than three fillet steaks a day.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          It is my opinion our free enterprise system is the motivation for invention. No motivation no invention, no positive effects for society.

      • georgehants

        Bernie, thank you, I am very “real” and do not for a second deny the effects you point out.
        I make my own point that a fair sharing society where such achievements are rewarded fairly by society, would remove all immoral actions such as the hiding of Cold Fusion for many years because we use a faulty system.
        This seems so obvious that I am sure you would agree that it would be better if many scientists etc Worldwide had been working on Mr. Rossi’s Wonderful discoveries for the last five and a half years and he was now very well rewarded without the corruption of capitalism that we are witnessing.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          George, I agree capitalism without effective regulation, leads to anarchy. But it is my opinion our free enterprise system is the motivation for invention. You said, “This seems so obvious that I am sure you would agree that it would be better if many scientists etc Worldwide had been working on Mr. Rossi’s Wonderful discoveries for the last five and a half years”. It is obvious to me without our free enterprise system the invention would not have been created in the first place. Abby, when confronted with difficult invention problems, without the financial incentives, would have said “what the heck, it is not worth it, I would rather have a baby.”

    • Zephir

      I’d add to Nick Cole’s objections, that the shock absorbers need to
      spread heat released by friction and to avoid the cavitation of damping
      fluid. You cannot miniaturize them so easily, until the damping principle remains the very same.

      • georgehants

        Zephir, many thanks, I am sure you know what you are talking about, unfortunately I have no idea.
        You may wish to send this Wonderful student an e-mail outlining your opinion.

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    While I understand where you are coming from, I believe the Rossi/Industrial Heat affair has huge significance and needs all the attention we can give it.

    Either there has been massive fraud or massive obstruction and either of those have major ramifications for the field in general. For sure, people actually doing experiments, head down and full speed ahead please. But for others, such as me, we will wage the war on the information front. We’re all in this together as far as illuminating the truth surrounding both the science and the actions of the players in the field.

    • sam
      • Brokeeper

        The white elephant with sunglasses in the middle of the room?

    • Ged

      Indeed. This saga is too high profile and needs to be sorted as its fallout I’m either direction will have broad repurcussions in the wider world, which could ultimately impact replicators too.