Court-Ordered Mediation Scheduled For Jan 2017 in Rossi v. Industrial Heat Case

There’s an entry from July 26, 2016 on the docket for the Rossi v. Industrial Heat court case regarding mediation between the two parties which Judge Cecelia Altonaga had mandated:

ORDER Scheduling Mediation before Thomas E. Scott. Mediation Hearing set for 1/12/2017 10:00 AM. The parties are reminded that a report of the mediation is due within seven (7) days after the mediation conference. Signed by Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga on 7/26/2016.

Not having much knowledge or experience with legal matters I have done some reading about what is involved in court-ordered mediation, and have found some useful information. Here’s an excerpt from an article the Findlaw website:

Mediation is a procedure in which the parties discuss their disputes with the assistance of a trained impartial third person(s) who assists them in reaching a settlement. It may be an informal meeting among the parties or a scheduled settlement conference. The dispute may either be pending in a court or potentially a dispute which may be filed in court. Cases suitable for mediation are disputes in commercial transactions, personal injury, construction, workers compensation, labor or community relations, divorce, domestic relations, employment or any other matters which do not involve complex procedural or evidentiary issues. Attendance at the mediation conference is voluntary by the parties, except where governed by statute or contract clause.

The mediator is a person with patience, persistence and common sense. She/he has an arsenal of negotiation techniques, human dynamics skills and powers of effective listening, articulation and restatement. The mediator is a facilitator who has no power to render a resolution to the conflict. The parties will fashion the solution as the mediator moves through the process. In many jurisdictions the mediator is an attorney but can not give legal advise while in the role of a mediator.

Whether this mediation will help to resolve the dispute remains to be seen. I don’t think either side would signal publicly whether they were inclined to settle before the case goes to trial. Certainly Andrea Rossi has not shown any signs of softening his position. In a recent comment about the court case on the Journal of Nuclear Physics he wrote:

The matter of the fact is that to make a settlement it takes two parties. War is the logic continuation of a relationship when other means are no more possible ( Von Clausevitz ) : symmetrically, diplomacy is the logic continuation of war when other means return to be possible. I absolutely do not like war, but if I have to do it, I do. Unfortunately, in this world freedom is not for free.

  • Omega Z

    IH bought Rossi’s 1MW plant for $1.5 Million after tests were performed.

    IH paid Rossi $10 Million after an additional succesful test done under their personal control. (Pixs of this are available with Tom Darden and J.T. Vaughn clearly visible- with Hands on)

    Darden raised approximately $50 million from Woodford.

    A possible commitment of $200 Million from a Chinese entity for a Chinese industrial/R&D park. No Idea if or how much of this ends in Dardens pocket. No where is there 100’s of Billions involved or mentioned.

    No where does this directly benefit Rossi unless some of it contributes to the $89 Million payment. Regardless, these funds go to Darden initially. Not Rossi.

    Rossi offered to refund the $11.5 Million to IH/Darden Inc if they would relinquish the E-cat License, return any and all IP and the 1MW plant. They refused.

    Perhaps your consultant friends in North Carolina can explain WHY IH/Darden Inc filed for international patents on Rossi’s E-cat technology without his knowledge. This speaks volumes about their integrity or the lack there of. And what about there other actions taken under their additional proxies. If they had any integrity, these back room shenanigans wouldn’t be taking place.

  • Mats002

    If calorimetry equals ‘heat measure’ and you say Rossi refuse calorimetry you say

    Rossi refuse heat measure.

    Your logic is twisted.

  • Engineer48

    Will be interesting to finally read what IH has to say and who are the 3rd parties they have issues with?

    As for mediation, this sounds more like war.

    What are the odds on who the 3rd parties may be?
    .

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      Heh! The document requesting an extension of time is document 27.0 in the newvortex filespace. It is still not on pacermonitor.

      There is a very obvious possible third party, a certain expert who was hired and paid to evaluate both the Verification Test and the Guaranteed Performance test. Earlier, when I saw the request, I thought of him. There is another possibility, Rossi’s lawyer, the one who is really the only connection to the “customer.” It is not impossible that he could be considered an accessory to a fraud. To think of others I need to stretch, a lot. Fabiani and West, their employees? Seems unlikely. Maybe Fulvio. I have *zero information* indicating that either of these could be targets, they would be a wild speculation.

      This all points up how little we know.

      • Omega Z

        ->”a certain expert who was hired and paid to evaluate both the Verification Test and the Guaranteed Performance test.”

        Which brings us to- Who will watch the watchers???

    • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

      At least on August 5th we’ll finally get a better understanding of what Industrial Heat is thinking (straight from them).

      I would think the third parties would have to include Penon. Industrial Heat must prove he is either incompetent or a co-conspirator in fraud in order to avoid payment of the $89M. It might also include JM Chemical — the shell customer for the UK entity. They might want to pull on that string and see where it leads.

      We may or may not like where the court case leads, but I think we all like that it is forcing all these secretive entities to divulge information. Maybe we can finally figure out what is really happening, because as things stand now there are things that just flat out don’t make any sense from any perspective.

  • Roland

    Bingo.

  • Mark Underwood

    I’m waiting for Kumar to explain himself about that one. Thanks for calling it out.
    Kumar, we’re waiting …

    • Andy Kumar

      // Kumar, we’re waiting … //
      .
      Admin,
      If you don’t want to allow my response, Don’t you have the responsibility to at least say that you blocked it. I am not shying away. The response is not half as “bad” as the original post.

      • Mark Underwood

        Andy, could you try again or perhaps post a link to where you got your information? thx

  • Mats002

    Excuse me; calorimetry is used for mWh/h (milli) not MWh/h (mega).

    MW-calorimetry is like boiling off liters of water in seconds. You can use the ordinary electricity utility power meter and a water supplier utility flow meter and be 10% or more off in calibration and still know for sure if it is ‘overunity’ or not.

    I cannot imagine how Rossi fooled so many professionals for so long time. IH professionals were alone in the plant many hours every day for a year. Calorimetry???

  • GiveADogABone

    ‘Obviously they cannot hand over $89M to Rossi based on just an ERV’s report.’

    Strange. I have read a signed contract between Rossi and IH that says exactly that if the ERV’s report says CoP=6 or greater: hand over $89M. Would you please comment on sections 3.2c, 4 and 5 of the licence agreement and explain how you interpret them?

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    The Lenuco Scenario.

    – Lenuco LLC (that is, Goerge Miley’s LENR commercialization vehicle) is now the proud owner of a few percent of IH Holdings International Limited (see the last page of the annual report https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09553031/filing-history ).

    – In March of this year Lenuco assigned one of its patents to IH Holdings. See https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/117-Miley-s-patents-and-a-heating-coil-patent-assigned-to-IHL-Holdings-Limited-Is-It/

    We can deduce from these two facts that Industrial Heat, in the form of IHHIL, has reached an agreement with Lenuco to transfer its IP for compensation — at least IHHIL stock and maybe more.

    Therefore, Industrial Heat definitely has an alternative to Rossi already in house. Lenuco was also talking about prototype reactors years ago. Although we haven’t heard much from Miley lately, it’s quite possible he has continued to make strides, especially with Industrial Heat’s backing.

    So that’s point A.

    Point B is that this is proof of another LENR-related acquisition by Industrial Heat, well after the Leonardo agreement. Can we presume that Darden and company performed due diligence before such an investment? I think we probably can. Can we assume that Miley was more professional about such testing than Rossi and that there’d be little doubt about the reliability of such testing? I think we probably can.

    So connect those two dots and what do you get?

    What I get is that there is more going on than what we see on the surface between IH and Leonardo, that there are competing forces in play, and that Industrial Heat most likely still does believe in LENR+ and has seen, tested and fully believes it is in possession of working reactors.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      IH have conpartimented investments in other researshers.
      I’ve heard of 2 success, in which is not E-cat.
      I’ve heard from two happy researchers themselves. non was Brillouin, but Brillouin is maybe another, or is partner with someone else.

      IH continue on LENR, that is sure, and investors were probably warned that E-cat was uncertain … it would be fraud not to tell them how was advancing the test.

      An interesting “semi conspiracy” I’ve heard is :
      – Rossi with his buzz was stalling many investments in genuine research, while attracting investors sitting at the fence.
      – people were not convinced neither that E-cat was working, nor that it was not working…
      – IH decided to invest money, like a poker player, not because they were convinced, but because they wanted to see the cards
      – now they have most of the cards, but they still fear/hope a miraculous straight flush from the last hidden card.

      when all cards will be out, people will be ready to invest again, in e-cat, in others, in both…

      • Mats002

        Hi Alain, why feel down then? The future looks bright both with and without Rossi then?

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          right, there is other players that will now be funded.

          however it will take time, because none seems commercial-ready.
          and some early starters will get defunct before it works.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        TL;DR: The pay to see the cards scenario might explain the initial $1.5M, but not much after that.

        ———-

        My main problem with the ‘pay to see the cards’ scenario is the events of Summer and Fall 2012 and the subsequent first major gate post-agreement.

        During that time period — and anyone can go back and read the ECW posts from that time and also Rossi’s comments — there was intense testing going on and also the emergence of the HotCat. There was a published in house test. Another test by Penon. Darden and Vaughn were on location in Ferrara for an extended period kicking the tires. Everyone was excited about the HotCat.

        Everyone was happy so they signed the agreement; $1.5M changed hands. That may be, as you call it, the risky down payment just to see the cards. How risky? I think not so risky because of all the testing that was going on.

        But then there was also a subsequent acceptance 24 hour test for $10M. That cannot be characterized as just wanting to see the cards money. That’s a lot of money. That’s also a fairly long test to try and fool experts. Industrial Heat published that press release saying that they had done their due diligence and the technology had been validated by their experts.

        But, ok, Penon was involved. So even though there’s nothing in the guy’s background that would suggest he’s a con man and Rossi sidekick, let’s run with that scenario, because that’s the only one that makes sense from IH’s perspective: that Rossi, with Penon’s assistance, fooled them in Ferrara and fooled them again for the $10M test.

        Fast forward to today and Penon is also the key wrt the 1 MW plant and another $89M. If IH came to believe that they were scammed out of $11.5M and never wanted to run the 1 MW test, then they would — to quote Chelsea — never, ever have agreed to Penon as the ERV. NEVER, EVER.

        Unless…

        Unless this is all just an elaborate trap by Industrial Heat. That they’ve known Penon and Rossi were the core of a confidence game running for years and they felt the long test was a way to finally trap them… and get their money back.

        But…

        But then they went and used the 1 MW plant to get tens of millions of dollars out of Woodford, and also, we’re told, the Chinese. They applied for related patents. So… that doesn’t make sense either.

        The only thing that fits the facts, if Industrial Heat is being sincere (BIG IF), is that they feel they’ve discovered they were being conned very late into the test, Fall 2015.

        But…

        if they were true believers up until the Fall of 2015, then why did they try to prevent the 1 MW test and drag their heels regarding commercialization? Why did they go shopping for other LENR-related IP? They would have believed they had the Golden Goose and yet they went out of their way to alienate Rossi. Why didn’t Rossi and Penon split with the dough they already had? Why risk it all with a 1 MW beast that IH’s engineers were in charge of 8 hours per day, sans Rossi? Too may things that don’t make sense.

        So, anyway, I’m hoping the next wave of court documents will illuminate what they think regarding Penon and when they began to believe they were being duped. If this was all an elaborate trap then we may see claims that go back quite a ways.

  • US_Citizen71

    It’s called auto-correct while eating lunch! The best reply you have is playing ‘Grammar Police’? No dissertation on why Rossi must settle or the sky will fall?

  • wizkid

    Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga is already on the record stating that she does not believe mediation is likely in this lawsuit. IH et al would have to pay Rossi not only the $89M but also enough $$$ to vindicate the slander and libel and more $$$ for damages due to losses from delays and throw in more $$$ just for the spirit of Tesla! Not to mention what Bruce Willis would say about it. More than 3000 people per day are dying without this tech being available in China alone.

    However, I do wish I didn’t feel this way!

  • Ophelia Rump

    I do not comprehend why IH would pay employees to perform a year of R&D for something which they did not believe in. I have to conclude that they did believe and wanted not just the working demo which Dottore Rossi provided, but also access to whatever other cards he was holding.

    I suspect the science involved is near enough to magic to the uninitiated that Dottore Rossi may still be years ahead. I think the difference between what IH wishes to back and what Dottore Rossi is willing to produce is proprietary utility/industrial scale v personal home scale.

    I think greedy men wanted to pull a Tesla on Dottore Rossi.

    • Observer

      The simplest explanation is that they did not raise enough money to pay Rossi.

      • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

        hum, nobody would invest in E-cat with a good ERV report ?
        you are joking ?

        of course if the report is a joke, maybe.

        note that if you cannot pay 89Mn$, you can just pay 10Mn$ first, borrow it to russian mafia, and manufacture a dozen of 1MW magnificient powerplant with the transfered IP…

        no, something is not like we imagine, that is simply that. even when I am optimistic, when I consider the possibilitys, I feel down.

        • Stanny Demesmaker

          Because IH believe they can create better IP by themself(they have 2 labs) and it’s more lucrative for them in the long term.

          The ERV report is positive, what do you need more? Is everything a conspiracy in your eyes? (customer / IH employees / Penon)

          IH didn’t cancel the e-cat licence and got alot of investment btw. Calimetry of a KW device is easily done by a professional. It doesn’t take 3 year, maybe a few weeks to know when something doesn’t work.

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            I don’t like conspiracies as theories, but here this is a pathetic nearly public conspiracy…
            It is still holding because some people refuse to consider witness and data that dissent.

            as I always say, there is no conspiracy, all is public or leaked.

            • Omega Z

              Obtaining the full payment payable 5 days after the final EVR report could be an issue, although I believe there is much more going on here.

              Rossi stated he offered to return the $11.5 million if Industrial heat/Darden Inc relinquished all IP license rights. Darden declined.

              It’s said that Darden offered Rossi a substantial amount, yet far less then the $89 million to go away.

              Industrial heat/Darden applied for international patents based on the E-cat in their name ignoring the license restrictions.

              The above says Industrial heat seriously wants to hang on to the IP. Not just some of it, but all of it in toto. Rossi effect is real has nothing to do with this dispute. The effect is real.
              ————————————————————————–
              Maybe we need to entertain a different possibility…
              There’s a joke- kill/quash the inventor, But this is based on reality.

              It’s been pointed out that the contract wasn’t well written per not in Rossi’s favor, but in fact, this contract is a fiasco for Industrial heat/ Darden inc.

              WHY?? Because IH/Darden Inc “NEVER” had intentions to manufacture a product to sell. Their plan is to license to others to manufacture and sell. Rossi on the other hand, intends to manufacture. This puts IH/Darden inc licensees at a serious competitive disadvantage.

              Siemens, GE or any international Corporation can bid a new power plant in the U.S. and buy E-cat reactors built by Rossi outside the U.S. which have no license or royalty costs in the price mix. Nothing in the contract prohibits this.

              This is all business. IH/Darden Inc want Rossi out of the game. Rossi being in play is extremely detrimental to their plans. It has a major negative impact on the value of IH/Darden Inc licensees.

              The only way any of this could have worked out in a reasonable way is if Rossi was merely a licensor to manufactures and not manufacturing himself. Thus a level playing field for manufactures. A free market with no specified territories.

      • Ciaranjay

        Like Ophelia I find it very hard to comprehend the Rossi IH thing.
        Why so keen to get involved then go cool?
        It does not make sense and there are various theories.
        However I do not buy the “lack of money” theory.
        For instance, Woodford is a partner to IH and even his smaller fund has the possibility of gearing to supply over $180 million additional funding, so if they really wanted, they could find the money.
        I also do not buy the “slow Rossi down” theory, any big investor like Woodford would want things speeding up before a competitor beats them to market.
        Either there is something they are unhappy about with Rossi, or IH are trying to be cute (I prefer the first option at the moment).
        I do wonder if the news of the last few days suggests that indeed Rossi did what he says but his product is much further from market readiness than was supposed.
        Also it is possible that IH have another dog in this race that they are favouring over Rossi, but we await more facts.
        Do we know if their research facility ever got built?

        • Michael W Wolf

          “much further from market readiness”. This may well be the issue. Especially if IH has invested in another company that they feel is closer to commercialization.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Is there any news on the huge lab IH is/was going to build, the 20,000 sq ft lab?

  • Anon2012_2014

    This is great news. Mediation is a very good process as it forces the party to show up and talk. The judge will take no BS.

    Rossi and IH should work out a deal. Rossi is stubborn. I would estimate that IH was flexible within reason. I would also estimate that Rossi refused to budge.

    The judge will require that Rossi and Darden themselves actually appear at the mediation across the conference table. There is a good chance that they will actually work out a reasonable deal and move on with their businesses and lives. This entire legal proceeding was a waste = entropy. Let us hope they work it out.

    • US_Citizen71

      I wouldn’t hold your breathe.

    • Omega Z

      An attempt at mediation is just a required part of the legal process. It’s merely an attempt to reduce the case loads in the court system. If issues can’t be resolved then the case continues.

      I wouldn’t hold my breath on this. Rossi previously offered to return IH/Dardens $11.5 million with IH/Darden relinquishing any claim of Rossi’s IP license. IH/Darden refused to relinquish those claims.

  • cashmemorz

    “Unfortunately, in this world freedom is not for free” : Rossi. When I started following the saga of LENR/cold fusion a few years ago I was under the impression that the work put in by an innovator such as Rossi was the means to achieving somethiong positive in this world. This would appear to be a simple right that should be allowed and defended. What the pending court case shows me is that there are others who assume that their right to power, wealth is more important to the point of taking what the innovator has achieved, even if it risks the reputation of the taker. The existing definition of psychopath seems to fit this dynamic in the case of the taker. That the term psychopath has a pejorative implication seems to have no effect on the psychopath. A person with no empathy for others. This is drive for power with out recognition of others and of their rights or aspirations. Therefore war is the inevitable outcome. The psychopath is willing to risk even war for possibility of winning all. And becasue of this the ideals of the innovator are subsumed by the psychopath, the innovator is forced in to war to defend their position. By forcing the hand of the idealist into a state of war, the psychopath spreads his disease of war to others and in that sense the psychopath always wins.

    • f sedei

      You are correct. I was court mediator for many years. It is my opinion this mediation will not result in agreement by both parties. Too much money and hostility are involved. Also, be aware the subjects’ lawyers are permitted in attendance with the parties during the”secretive” mediation process, but they are not permitted to speak unless agreed upon by the parties.The Judge,in my opinion, should have ordered arbitration. The Arbitrator has much more legal power to demand any associated contractual documents, information from witnesses,etc. They can also keep the Judge informed during the entire process–something the mediator is not permitted to do. This may just be a delaying procedure by the court, or wishful thinking.

      • Gittyup

        I’ve been through many mediations. You would be surprised what comes of it. I’ve been hell bent on justice as the plaintiff going into mediation and come out with an agreement. The problem with this lawsuit is the contract is horribly written and unclear, the conditions and test location were changed numerous times with basically verbal agreements, the testing conditions were either sloppy or maybe just not clearly laid out, there are apparently disputed results and test methods among many other things. This is the definition of one giant gray area. I’m guessing neither party wants to go through a whole lawsuit that wil drag on years and cost millions with no certain outcome. So believe it or not there is a lot of incentive to settle. The parties could be really far part in what they would settle with but mediators are really very skilled in finding common ground. I wouldn’t be surprised if the mediation takes many days. Some simple mediations I’ve done take 4-5 hours easy.

    • sam

      Or it could be simply two sly foxes at war with each other.

  • GiveADogABone

    Mediation Hearing set for 1/12/2017
    All discovery due by 2/27/2017
    Mediation Deadline 3/13/2017
    Pretrial Stipulation due by 4/18/2017
    Jury Trial set for period of 6/26/2017

    Seems like mediation is to be based on a lot of discovery, with the opportunity to do some more discovery during the mediation.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Given that one party and the ERV claim it works and the other party claims it doesn’t (at least in non-legally binding external communications) things look pretty binary, there is little room for a middle ground.

    My prediction is that those interested in playing for time to build their case will seek the outcome that will give them most time to do so.

    • Warthog

      Ah, but what do you have if BOTH parties (and the entire legal case) is, in fact, a ploy to gain time on possible competitors and at the same time get authoritative legal recognition of the reality of LENR at the end of the process….thereby bypassing the whole “science peer review” argument that has successfully stalled LENR for years and years.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I am a big fan of it being legally proved – commercially frozen is interesting, but can we argue that Rossi is waiting on the outcome?

        • Warthog

          If the “ploy” hypothesis is correct, both Rossi and IH already know what the outcome will be…it will “flow” directly from the collected data, and will be “positive”.

        • Omega Z

          Even should the court resolve the situation by binding IH/Daden to the original contract(which I doubt), This would not effect Rossi’s commercial plans outside those areas licensed to IH/Darden.

          Note Rossi claims to have offered to return the $11.5 million with Industrial heat relinquishing their claims to the E-cat license and IH/Darden refused. One then has to question IH/Dardens claims of not being able to substantiate the E-cat claims.

          There has to be more involved here. Greed or eliminate the inventor or whatever. There was also a request by IH/Darden for Rossi to develop and test 6 cylinder e-cat whatever that was about.