Woodford Investment Management: “Not Appropriate” to Comment on Rossi/IH Lawsuit (Citywire.co.uk)

An article published in Citywire, a British website for financial professionals covers the Rossi/IH lawsuit:


It’s of interest to the British investment industry because Woodford Investment Management has invested $50 million in Industrial Heat. There’s not a great deal of new information for people who have been following the story, but for people not so familiar with the case it provides the key information. It also includes a statement that Woodford put out, which is similar to other recent statements they have made about their IH investment:

Woodford Investment Management said it was ‘not appropriate’ to comment on the lawsuit. ‘Industrial Heat is currently working with numerous scientists to build a diverse portfolio of innovative technology, such as low energy nuclear reactions, in the quest to eliminate pollution,’ it added.

‘We continue to share this quest for what we believe could be a significant development and exploitation of new energy sources.’

Andrea Rossi has stated that representatives from Woodford did visit the 1MW E-Cat plant while testing was going on and were updated on the progress of the testing; however Woodford has never publicly mentioned Andrea Rossi or the E-Cat in anything they have said about their IH investment, possibly because they became aware of problems in the relationship.

  • Omega Z

    I understand why a handful of people in Big physics would like to bury LENR. I understand why others want to delay until they can control/own it in a financial sense.

    I can’t come up with any reason the U.S. Military would want it suppressed LENR.
    They would benefit more then any other entity.

  • Obvious
  • Roland

    If you’re suggesting that Rossi’s early demise might prove convenient to some please rest assured that this eventuality occurred to him quite some time ago and that the strategy to counter this has been in place for years, as he himself openly announced.

  • DrD

    Anything that’s already the public domain can’t be patented. Perhaps they don’t care and lots of “Patent Pending” is their aim.

  • Stephen

    Wow how many of these are there? I can imagine why something like this on top of the non payment was the last straw for Andrea Rossi.

    How did the timing of the old IH patent filing compare with their original attempt to pay Andrea Rossi to abandon the 1MW project?

    According to AR, Thomas Barker is the person he trained and passed the IP onto I think. I can imagine Andrea Rossi having difficulty working with him after that original attempt. And also Thomas Barker having some issues after he got found out. Amazing iH still filed more patents applications in his name in February this year!

    Was he the same person who wanted to see the customer production, or was that someone else?

  • Hi all

    In reply to Jerry Soloman on the legal reason Woodford will not speak on this matter.

    Woodford cannot comment on IH and Rossi as they rightly fear tortious interference with contractual relations.

    Kind Regards walker

  • Roland

    Does anyone think Congress may become interested in exploring, under oath, whether a technological transfer of American based LENR IP, with military applications, to unfriendly foreign interests has already occurred and, if so, what the strategic implications are for American interests and how, if the implications are negative for those interests, the responsible party(s) whom have facilitated this transfer should be regarded by the American government going forward?

    Will the American government come to regard the deliberate obstruction of the development of a demonstrably superior American based LENR technology as fundamentally detrimental to the national interest?

    Will a pragmatic assessment of the impact of advanced LENR products on American interests and economics, and the consequences of becoming a laggard to other nations, compel the American government to openly support LENR adoption and deployment in the face of the various powerful vested interests that currently oppose this?

    In so far as there is an extant body of documentation regarding their ongoing interest in LENR, is the American defence/intelligence community already grappling with these issues behind the scenes?

    Has IH’s position already become much more complex than the ‘this is a simple business dispute of minor import’ that they would have us, and other interested parties, focus on?

    Will IH become an example, to tomorrows MBAs, of how to completely blow the business opportunity of the century through short sighted greed and small minded malfeasance?

    Is IH prepared for how deeply Rossi has considered all the aspects of his invention and how far behind the curve they already are?

    • All good questions – but first the USG would need to publicly admit that LENR is a viable technology and explain why its patent office has been rejecting applications for CF patents as ‘perpetual motion machines’, why US academics have spent so much energy denying that CF is real, and de-funding/sacking/vilifying all those establishment researchers who have dared to venture into the field, and why government departments have failed to respond to any and all claims of developments in the technology.

      • Roland

        ‘National Security’ covers a multiplicity of sins and omissions, and once invoked no further explanations are generally required or expected.

        The most cursory reading of the extant documentation demonstrates that the US military/intelligence community had proof of the reality of LENR in the early 1990s.

    • f sedei

      Very astute observations, some with international ramifications, that must be answered ASAP.

    • georgehants

      New York Post
      How US covered up Saudi role in 9/11
      In its report on the still-censored “28 pages” implicating the Saudi
      government in 9/11, “60 Minutes” last weekend said the Saudi role in the
      attacks has been “soft-pedaled” to protect America’s delicate alliance
      with the oil-rich kingdom.
      That’s quite an understatement.
      Actually, the kingdom’s involvement was deliberately covered up at
      the highest levels of our government. And the coverup goes beyond
      locking up 28 pages of the Saudi report in a vault in the US Capitol
      basement. Investigations were throttled. Co-conspirators were let off
      the hook.

      • kdk

        If you’ve ever watched the towers fall with an analytical eye, you know it wasn’t the planes and fires that did it. The antenna on the North Tower is very clearly falling in first (meaning the core columns were taken out). The towers disintegrate as they fall, steel beams are clocked going 70mph getting ejected and impaled into nearby buildings, no floors are found in the rubble. Pretty much the only bodies recognizable as such were from the people who jumped before it fell. The three inches of dust (including thorium, uranium, cesium, yttrium, chromium, barium, tritium and strontium all multiple times larger than background) in the street and 240% increased risk of thyroid cancer among first responders (from a study completed 7 years after 9/11) tell the tale, as well as the USGS dust samples. Hint: asbestos doesn’t cause thyroid cancer, but iodine-131 does. Saudi Arabia is not responsible for that, however much damage the hijackers caused. Once you get your head around that, covering up cold fusion while millions around the world die is playing nice.

    • Stephen

      When you he wave comes will they be running in to the sea trying to surf in planks of wood they just found on the beech, or will they already be waiting there in the water with well designed top notch surf boards.

  • Roland

    Don’t be surprised that Woodford won’t state a position on this prior to a clear read on how Leonardo’s case is going; careers are already on the line over there about the handling of $50 million and exactly what they’ve gotten for the money, if anything, as this could also be the play in which IH dumps Woodford; as they’ve done too so many others over the years.

    Woodford will, of necessity, try to get out of this whole with reputation unblemished; which still might mean going all in on Rossi in a few months time…

    • Jonnyb

      I hope you are correct and Woodford do go all out with Rossi.

      • bachcole

        It’s “all in”, not “all out”. “All-in” is a poker term where the better shoves all of his chips into the center of the table, signifying that he believes that he can’t lose. Although “all out” is a sports term meaning that one puts out the ultimate effort usually near the end of an endurance race. So, I suppose both “all in” and “all out” would work.

        But everyone goes “all out” at the end of the race unless they are giving up (or their name is Usain Bolt). And people who go “all in” are willing to risk everything being certain that they are going to win. I hope that Woodford goes “all in” since that would signify that the E-Cat is everything that we think that it is. If Woodford were to go “all out”, that would be inviting jail time since they would not have assurance that they were going to win yet they were risking other people’s money. (:->)

        • Roland

          Though I generally avoid colloquialisms, in this case I quite deliberately chose the poker metaphor for reasons I’d thought to be self evident.

          In short order decisions of considerable import will be required from all concerned.

  • Omega Z

    Woodford’s investment decision hinged on IH/Darden. Not Rossi…
    Darden told them, We built this with our people and have definitively found excess heat. And, We own the IP…
    So why did not IH/Darden pay Rossi if it works?
    Why wasn’t the $89M placed in Escrow?
    Darden Didn’t and Doesn’t have $89M dollars for such a deal.
    But Darden manages a $2 Billion dollar investment trust fund.
    The Key word is “Manages”. It is not his money. It belongs to investors and it is tied up in investments.
    Most if not all these investments are highly leveraged. It is not cash to be shifted around on a whim. These properties are over valued as attested to by the bankruptcies where debt exceeds their value.
    Bear with me and keep in mind- LENR “IS” a very controversial technology & cash is hard to come by.

    Industrial Heat LLC was created to obtain up to $20M in initial investment money. Didn’t happen, Darden had according to Darden himself to kick in a major portion of the funds just to achieve $11.5 million to cover the front end of the Rossi/IH contract. There is no $89M to pay Rossi. Woodford was an attempt on Darden’s part to raise that money and likely fell short.

    That being the case, I think it’s likely that Darden & company are now hoping the contract allows them to retain the IP due to how it’s written without final payment. I don’t think it does. The $89M is an integral part of the contract. Without payment, IH/Darden are in breech of the contract. In fact, you could legally construe that IH/Darden are trying to steal or defraud Rossi of his IP because of that non payment….
    IH/Darden did not say Rossi’s technology didn’t work. They merely claimed they couldn’t substantiate it. Google- Could not provide evidence of, support of, proof of, confirm, verify etc, etc… “Nothing” says it does not work.

    legalese is- the formal and technical language of legal documents that is often hard to understand. Substantiate is legalese. A legal safety word. You haven’t accused Rossi of anything. This is in essence, Darden saying(F9- Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t, No comment.)

    I also believe Rossi’s statements to Mats. Darden inc offered Rossi a substantial, but far less then the $89M to walk away. I believe Rossi’s counter offer to return the $11.5M and the rescission of IP rights. Darden does not want to forfiet the IP. It has value attested to by the pay off and walk away offer. You don’t do that if the Technogy doesn’t work. It’s all about the money. Darden doesn’t have $89M to give. Maybe due to the wording of the contract, Darden never intended to pay. Making the offer only after he realized Rossi wasn’t going quietly…

    • Roland

      …and that Rossi had anticipated the play by IH well before hand, based on their behaviour re the IP, and was extraordinarily well prepared for the case Leonardo filed when the $89 million wasn’t forthcoming as per the contract.

      I take it as a mild positive for Rossi that Woodford’s vetting of IH also failed to overturn the right stones.

      Hopefully Rossi will turn this particular chore over to hard nosed professionals going forward.

    • Rossi was offered $5M to stop the MW test. Although IH did not accept to cancel the license agreement when Rossi offered a buy back of the license. This was the trigger for Rossi to realize that it was not in IH plan to either pay $89M or to market any MW product. They only wanted the IP and to have Rossi continue deliver IP in a leash. They do not want to produce anything, only to “go slow” as Darden said… A working product is not in their business plan, only raising money for slow progress. … 10 years or so…

      • Alan Smith

        Perhaps IH were worried that Rossi might show the plant to too many ‘outsiders’? ‘Only listen to us’ was their watchword all along. ‘We control the information, we control the access.’

        • TomR

          Not all along, but yes, after they gave Rossi’ IP to his competitors.

      • Josh G

        Just out of curiosity, where are you getting the $5M figure from? Publicly, Mats has reported it was a significant amount of money. Do you have ‘inside information’?

      • Brokeeper

        Darden’s shady dealings of the past has now bit him in the back-end from not raising enough trusted investment funds for Rossi’s final payment. “Oh! what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!” Walter Scott

    • SG

      Very incisive analysis. One of the closest I believe.

    • BillH

      Reschedule payments, $9M/mth for the next 10 months, depending on sales of course, problem solved.

  • Omega Z

    It is likely Woodford based their investment decision all on what Darden told them.
    We built this with our people and have definitively found excess heat.
    So Woodford’s decision hinged mostly on IH/Darden. Not Rossi…

    • Owen Geiger

      But Woodford claims they did their own due diligence. That sounds like more than just investing on someone’s word. (way too risky) Seems they would have brought in their own engineers to confirm what Darden and Rossi are saying.

      • Omega Z

        Had they been dealing directly and only to Rossi or any other LENR experimentalist, it is Highly probable they would have required a test with their own experts.

        As that wasn’t the case, they probably didn’t do their due diligence to that degree. Anyway, Darden did not say that the E-cat doesn’t work. This is about money.

  • Andre Blum

    I’m keeping all options open: there is a slight chance that Woodford is not an innocent bystander in this case. Maybe their investment came with conditions, and those conditions were violated by IH and their investment is reverted or locked, causing the inability of IH to pay Rossi the $89M.

    • Rossi Fan

      Well then Rossi should have insisted on having the money deposited into an escrow account.

      • Sanjeev

        I was wondering about it a while back. When there was an escrow for initial $11M, why not for $89M?
        Well, the answer is clear now. IH never intended to do a long term test, so no mention of escrow in the agreement. They never tried to find a proper customer or their own ERV. They tried to cancel the 1 year test by offering money to AR. They never deposited any money anywhere.
        AR went ahead anyway, with his own customer and ERV, fully knowing that there is no escrow and he may not get the money (and recorded evidences for the coming lawsuit). Was it a foolish mistake? Why not get rid of IH there and then and save 1 year of donkey work? Why not get the agreement checked by a good lawyer and terminate it ? Why did IH agree on customer and ERV, when they didn’t want the test or was it all one sided?
        These are all new questions now. Sad thing is the whole lenr community and ECat supporters have suffered immensely by these less-than-wise acts of IH and AR.

        • Omega Z

          Why wasn’t the $89M placed in Escrow?

          Quite simply, Darden didn’t have $89M dollars to put in Escrow.

        • Rossi Fan

          Well we don’t know the whole story. I have a strong suspicion that IH was working for iqt.org If so then Woodford and JM might have been a ruse.

        • Owen Geiger

          “Why not get rid of IH there and then and save 1 year of donkey work?”

          Because Rossi wanted solid evidence of a 1 year industrial test that proves high COP. (Proof for investors, not the public.) That way he could continue the process of commercializing his reactors no matter what happens to IH. And if it ended up in court, Rossi could use the opportunity to publicize his invention.

          • Sanjeev

            That’s what I’d call an overkill.
            I’m sorry but that’s all I can say about your speculation.

        • There has been speculation on the previous thread that Rossi may have wanted the relative seclusion from IH during the test, in order to develop a new idea he wanted kept away from them – the ecat X/Quark. It’s possible that he may even have had a Leonardo team ensconced in the warehouse offices or in a nearby location for this purpose.

          • BillH

            So it’s AR that wants a 1 year delay not IH? You cant argue it both ways.

      • Omega Z

        Darden didn’t have $89M dollars to put in Escrow.

        • BillH

          Pure conjecture, 6 months ago everyone was willing to believe Woodford had put a $50M investment into IH. Paying that out to LC in instalments would be a simple solution. It was also rumoured that Chinese investors had put in a substantial investment, who’s to say that’s not true?

    • Alan Smith

      Woodford and Cherokee have a dealing record going back to at least 2006. They are not ‘new best friends’ by any means.

  • Rossi Fan

    This kind of attitude is starting to annoy me. It is a symptom of a failure of capitalism to adapt to new highly disruptive technologies. Patents and secrecy is all well and good for small time nickel and dime inventions. This kind of stuff should not be shrouded in enigma. There has got to be a better way.

    We do however have to give credit where credit is due. They came out and pretty much said it: “we are investing in cold fusion”. The above text cannot be interpreted in any other way. There is however a big difference between social and media acceptance and results.

  • Hi all

    Woodford cannot comment on IH and Rossi as they rightly fear tortious interference with contractual relations.

    Kind Regards walker

  • Ciaranjay

    I have to say that I am sympathetic to Woodford.
    It is a real minefield.
    On the one hand LENR fans want scientists and business to get involved.
    Then when they do they get attacked by both the critics and the fans.
    Is it any wonder that investors might think twice about investing in LENR?
    Is it any wonder why parties such as Woodford are so defensive?

    Well Woodford invested in LENR. And guess what now he is getting dragged into a court case.
    If he does not comment fans cry conspiracy, if he does comment then the critics on the skeptics side attack him. You can see the usual comments on the Citywire article.

    I think Woodford is to be credited with taking a risk to invest in LENR. I also think it is understandable he is being extremely careful in how they handle it and what they say. At the end of the day whether IH turns out to be a good or bad choice for Woodford will become clear.

    • Whatever they invested could still come back to them, and if it does, it’ll most probably be a huge return on their investment.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      The FUD machine working perfectly

  • Ciaranjay

    I find this quite interesting.
    I posted a question on Woodford’s site on 15 May.
    I did not see any point in asking directly about the legal case to which they would not comment, but I wanted to see if they would comment on any change with their relationship with IH or change in their view of the investment position.
    Sadly all I got was a cut and paste of a statement that Industrial Heat made in October 2015. I replied pointing this out but they did not post my reply or comment further.
    Oddly on the same page is another poster asking Woodford about NWBO (also mentioned in the article).
    It seems like someone at Citywire read the article and picked up on the comments and decided to do some digging.
    I think the lid is going to come off very soon.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Sounds to me like apco is running Woodford’s PR too. Same wording

  • Mike Henderson

    Everything makes sense when this is viewed in the context of a pump and dump operation. The trick is to get early investors to walk away from their initial investment voluntarily. A three ring circus atmosphere seems like it should do the trick nicely.

  • bachcole

    I think that Woodford just said “We don’t know.”. Good on them.

    Also, I notice that Woodford “gave” I.H. $50 million and I.H. “gave” Rossi, what, $1.5 million or $11.5 million. So, I.H. pockets either $48.5 million or $38.5 million. Or does anyone know what happened to that “extra” money?

    • They could have bought up half the field for all we know.
      It seems they’ve tried doing that at least.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Divide, and conquer – by the fragments for pennies on the dollar.

        • Mike Henderson

          We are all anxiously looking forward to your report on me356’s activities. What can you tell us about your visit?

        • Maybe, maybe not… we shall see.
          In the meantime I will continue to work on my portable EMP generator

        • Chapman

          Out of context, I know, but I just had to say “Thank You”. For your work, your openness, and your intelligent contributions to this open forum.

          Most of us die-hard LENR enthusiasts would have gone nuts with nothing more to fulfil our scientific addictions than news updates and wild theories. Your experimentation, and the form in which you present it, are a service to humanity (no exaggeration).

          I will not waste your time further with a bunch of leg humping or hero worship, but I really wanted to take the time for a single, heartfelt “Thank You”.

          (Sorry for the American slang. Is there a British equivalent to Leg Humping??? Cleese would know…) Anyway, God Save The Queen!!!

          • Bob Greenyer

            Thanks, it means a lot – several of the team have had to make very significant sacrifices in their personal circumstances to stay true – fortunately we have some very intelligent and capable retirees and the team gets stronger every year. Whilst we are only a small part of those working in the field, we hope we can be a catalyst for others to deliver on their promises and with your help and encouragement, the truth will out.

    • Roland

      IH had already made payments totalling $11.5 million to Leonardo well before Woodford invested $50 million in IH.

      Your general question is still pertinent, as is the whereabouts of the rumoured $200 million Chinese investment.

      IH has named a number of other beneficiaries of their foray into green field energy technologies and, apparently, have funded research based on Rossi’s IP. All that aside IH has significant financial problems around their other projects in the property remediation business, including two very recent bankruptcies; this wouldn’t be the first time someone robbed Peter to pay Paul.

      Were I Woodford I would be demanding an audit at this juncture if they haven’t done so already.

      • Omega Z

        The $200 million Chinese investment was an investment into a R&D industrial park. How much if any of that money ends up with Darden is unknown. Possibly at some point, Darden would receive a finders fee or something for his involvement. Who knows.

        • Roland

          Exactly; a black box so far. More pertinent is the question of what role, if any, Rossi’s IP played in the transaction.

          For some reason the notion that the PLA, or other CCP entities, got the fast track on the E-cat IP through IH doesn’t sit well…

          • Omega Z

            The E-cat had everything to do with the Chinese transaction.

            There was an illustration included with the Chinese article with all the 1MW E-cat details along with manufacturing product data etc…