More Details About the 1MW Plant Setup

After reading Mats Lewan’s very interesting article published on his An Impossible Invention website yesterday I followed up with Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics yesterday with some more questions. Here are my questions and Rossi’s responses.
3- Darden and his investors met the Customer in the meeting rom of the offices, that is separated from the production area

Dear Andrea
I read with great interest the article published by Mats Lewan regarding your visit to Sweden and your report of some of the details of the 1 year E-Cat test. I wonder if you could clarify a couple of points:

1. From what I have read the customer’s work took place inside a sealed enclosure, maybe a shipping container also?

1- it took place inside a plant about 20 meters long, 3 meters high, 3 meters wide, obviously closed

2. Was the customer’s production facility positioned next to the plant in the same building?

2- it was in a separate area of the same building

3. Mats wrote that “IH never had access to the customer’s area”, however you mentioned yesterday that Tom Darden and his investors spoke with the customer in his factory. Can you explain what Mats meant?

3- Darden and his investors met the Customer in the meeting rom of the offices, that is separated from the production area

4. Did you buy the building you looked at in Sweden for your factory?

4- we are in the process to find an agreement

5. Mats said the 100 W QuarkX is the size of a pen — does each QuarkX include its own control system built in, or is that separate?

5- the control system is separate

This all helps give me a clearer picture of what the setup in the building was. It seems like the output of the 1MW plant was piped directly into the customer’s enclosed plant which was within the same warehouse space. At one point I was thinking that the customer’s plant was in the next door building.

It does sound like the industrial process that JM Products was doing was quite secretive, since even Tom Darden was apparently not permitted to be inside the production facility. The only information we have been given of what was inside the plant was when Mats Lewan quoted a witness as looking inside the unit when the door was open and saw what he thought was some kind of production taking place.

According to Mats’ article yesterday, the water used in the process was recycled — which I assume would mean that the steam the heat piped into the customer’s unit condensed in the production process and was then sent back into the E-Cat Plant where it was heated again. In a post on the JONP to Oystein Lande, Rossi goes into some more detail explaining how the heat produced by the 1MW plant dissipated:

Andrea Rossi
May 17, 2016 at 7:32 AM
Oystein Lande:
1. the container itself was not insulated, because this would have been useless, since all the hot bodies inside the container were thermally insulated
2. The doors were open during the operation and there was a ventilation system that sent the warm air through the exhaust windows of the roof of the factory
Besides: you correctly write that if the 1% of the heat produced was lost through the insulation, 10 thermal kW were emitted.
As you well know, just to give an example that explains which amount of energy we are talking of and as any household knows, 10 kW of power are barely enough to maintain during a mild winter a temperature of 25 °C in a two rooms apartment with close windows.
A 2 rooms apartment has a volume of about 200 cubic meters.
We were in a factory with windows in the roof always open; by the way, as you know, warm air goes naturally toward the top being lighter than air colder than it; the volume of the factory is 6 000 cubic meters which means about 30 times the volume of a two rooms apartment.
Now: if 10 kW of power are able to hold a 2 rooms apartment of 200 cubic meters at 22°C with closed windows, how much are able the same to heat a factory of 6 000 cubic meters with open windows on the roof and a ventilation system to exhaust it ? Obviously the temperature was warmer inside the reactors container, in fact I told you that there were about 40 °C, but, due to the fact that the doors of the container were open and that also inside the container there was a ventilation system, the internal temperature of the reactors container never is gone above the 40 °C.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • DrD

    I was being serious because he wants to help the poor and substantiate it. I DON’T (the latter)! This might give him the satisfaction he yearns. I would be willing to contribute except I’m sure the £M isn’t achievable. Agree with your last comment too.

  • Engineer48

    VERY MAJOR REVEAL when question and answer are read together:

    Oystein Lande
    May 22, 2016 at 2:36 PM
    Dear Mr Rossi,

    I’m sorry. Was just curious of what principles were used. We will wait for later then.
    About your answer to Sebastian:
    Does this imply that heating was done in stages?
    I mean one core was boiling water and the next was superheating the steam from boiler section?

    Andrea Rossi
    May 22, 2016 at 4:31 PM
    Oystein Lande:

    It’s ok, thanks for your comprehension.
    The circuit was complex, but yes, the steam was superheated.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Stanny Demesmaker

      Can you tell us why this a a major reveal ?

      • Engineer48

        Rossi is claiming the steam is superheated, which means it was dry steam that requires the highest energy input to obtain, which means the plant did achieve the claimed 1MW of superheated steam output.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheated_steam

        “To produce superheated steam in a power plant or for processes (such as drying paper) the saturated steam drawn from a boiler is passed through a separate heating device (a superheater) which transfers additional heat to the steam by contact or by radiation.”

  • Andreas Moraitis

    From JoNP:

    “Andrea Rossi
    May 22, 2016 at 1:00 PM
    Sebastian:
    No, the value of 100.1 has been invented by the usual clowns.
    I repeat that I cannot disclose the data of the Report of the ERV before it is disclosed in Court.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.“

    „Andrea Rossi
    May 22, 2016 at 4:31 PM
    Oystein Lande:
    It’s ok, thanks for your comprehension.
    The circuit was complex, but yes, the steam was superheated.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.“

    • Engineer48

      This is a very MAJOR reveal!

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Well, the context of the question is important. I mean, I am quite much agreeing that current proof has holes and is not solid.

    So I not suggesting that someone has to purchase any product or say a lunar lander to accept that we landed on the moon. How silly is that?

    However, in the context of Rossi – then yes, I think this is really quite a reasonable and logical response. So I certainly not suggesting that proof of things in life requires one to purchase that proof.

    However, in the case of Rossi and the ecat? Sure, the only real proof one will get from Rossi is a satisfied customer using such a device. And the reason for this is that we don’t have much of a choice with the given information. To me, this is no larger of a revelation then 2 = 2.

    So, I don’t see my position as childlike at all. In fact I think it is the only reasonable adult response. The problem is people not wanting to take their OWN responsibility for their views, and then be shocked when they told such a view is reasonable! Of course if it’s taken them forever to conclude what is reasonable and obvious, then they should have the gumption to admit as such in place of blaming everyone else for their shortcomings.

    So yes, as a general life rule suggesting that one must purchase something for proof is childlike and silly! And I never suggested this is some reasonable life rule.

    However, in this context, purchasing an ecat and testimony by satisfied customers is likely the best course of action and by any logic would be the best proof one could obtain at this point in time. (unless some other test or something else comes along that we don’t know about or expect).

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada
    [email protected]

    • DFarwell

      If we were to remove the huge piece of the puzzle, being that Rossi has laid this all out in the court of public opinion on an hourly basis as well as making promises to a community he obviously is concerned about, then I would agree with you. Those two issues are too significant in the current situation in my opinion though. Too many promises for too many years with zero substantiation.

  • Sam

    An apartment in Sweden would be much better isolated than an apartment in southern Europe. Nevertheless his calculations was a bit optimistic 🙂

  • Engineer48

    Using modern steam monitoring sensors, such as the unit linked below, measuring, monitoring and recording stream data is made simple as it measures temperature, pressure and flow in one unit.

    http://krohne.com/en/newsdetail/article/new-vortex-flowmeter-for-advanced-energy-measurement-449/

    While I’m not saying the ERV used this unit, there are others like it. Point being today it is not hard to do good steam measuring.

    • GiveADogABone

      http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-c
      … Throughout the test the pressure of the steam has always been equal to atmospheric pressure. …

      … Throughout the test the temperature of the outlet steam has always been significantly higher than 100C.

      That can only mean one thing: the E-cat superheats. It is the superheat margin that guarantees that the steam is dry (fully evaporated) and does transfer the required enthalpy. The superheating is carried out by the fins on top of the reactor box; it is a very neat trick. It also requires a water level control loop for the E-cat.

      For the purposes of the contract and ERV report, if Rossi gives away the enthalpy gain from heating the inlet water up to 100C and also the enthalpy gain from superheating the outlet steam, the temperature measurement of the inlet water is not needed and the temperature measurement of the outlet temperature is only used to demonstrate that the steam is dry at 1bar pressure and as a correction factor for the flowmeter that is also measuring dry steam. That seems to me to produce a simple, robust data set for calculating the enthalpy transfer, in accordance with the contract.

  • Robert Dorr

    I asked Rossi the question and his response was that he thought the reactor was completely off line during the test for a total of somewhere between 4 and 5 days. He didn’t indicate what the longest contiguous period of time he was off line during the accumulated 4 to 5 day shutdown, but I would think that if it was at most a few hours, the reactor would continue to generate a considerable amount of heat just from the latent heat contained in the mass of the reactor, so it certainly wouldn’t drop to room temperature and indeed may continue to boil water for quite some time.

  • BillH

    In order for the ERV report to say that the average COP over the whole period of the test was about 50 the 1MW plant would have had to be performing at well over expectation from the very start of the test, I can see no way IH would have allowed the test to continue for even a few days if the initial results had been well below those expected in the contract. If IH allowed such a test to run for a whole year they would be equally culpable. The only conclusion therefore is that IH saw positive results for almost the entire duration of the 1 year test. The interesting thing is that IH are not the ones bringing the court case, if they had been deceived surely they would sue to get their investment back?

    It would appear that IH were unable to built working plant to Rossi’s specification, or Rossi withheld a vital piece of information for which IH were not willing to hand over $89M till it was provided. Either way it’s a wasted year to Rossi, with no way of launching product into many of the most lucrative markets.

  • georgehants

    The only way to show conclusively if Mr. Rossi has discovered a method of Cold Fusion is to have his technology openly available for replication, this court case can prove nothing beyond if the terms of an agreement where adhered to or not.
    If Mr. Rossi wins then the abilities of the tester etc. will still be questioned.
    Only if independent “experts” are employed to check everything from the customer to the coffee machine, it is still not as clear and easy as a honest independent opertunity to test the device.
    Even the Orbo has been passed to ECW for testing, with unclear results I think, but at least it happened.
    We know nothing about the June demonstration etc. or if there is the slightest chance it will confirm his talk.
    Maybe we will just have to wait for his new factory, away from the US, to start producing units before we will know.
    Either way, I will ask again as I have asked many times, I would appreciate some kind of rational explanation of why this man would not put one of his basic units up for open testing by trustworthy people.
    That at least would give us something factual to discuss instead of pages of speculation and opinion.

    • Slad

      The “only way”???

      I think not.

      • georgehants

        Slad, I many times get strange replies to simple statements, please expand your reply.

        • Slad

          George, many times I read your comments and think ‘WTF’.

          You said: “The only way to show conclusively if Mr. Rossi has discovered a method of Cold Fusion is to have his technology openly available for replication”

          Which is an utterly ridiculous statement. Complete nonsense in fact. It doesn’t deserve more than a pithy response… even this is too much.

          • georgehants

            Slad, a very strange reply, it may help if you where to give some examples of other ways of confirming his claims.

            • Slad

              Measure outputs (properly).

              Measure inputs (properly).

              • georgehants

                Slad a very strange reply.
                Who is going to do those measurements?

                • DrD

                  YOU, after you bought one. Then pass it on to those in need. I would assume you need to start up a charitable fund as I doubt you can raise the purchase price.
                  Please don’t expect AR to give them away free (at this stage — later he might).
                  I’m being serious btw!

                • georgehants

                  DrD, such reply’s are not helpful or clever.
                  I am asking for reasons not unqualified statements, please give a reason why one cannot expect Mr. Rossi to pass on his discoveries to help save and improve lives.

                • Engineer48

                  George,

                  He passes them on my selling product.

                  Are you ready to buy?

                • georgehants

                  DrD your reply are becoming more obtuse, what are you saying, no product has been “sold” that we are able to establish works as claimed.

                • Robert Dorr

                  I think there is a very vague possibility that “georgehants” is a sub-sentient computer program used to confirm a poorly written “Turing Test”.

                • DrD

                  George, I WAS being serious!
                  That last question’s also been answered already, many ways but you don’t seem to understand the answers so I give up on this one

                • georgehants

                  DrD more obscurity, please give your answer as to why Mr. Rossi is justified in keeping secret a technology that could save and improve many lives.

                • Engineer48

                  Secret????????????????

                  Rossi’s 1MW 105C steam plants are FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!

                  My clients are sitting it out until the court case is settled. Can’t blame them as I would do the same thing.

                  However Rossi was ready to engage the ordering and money escrow process for 10 x 1MW at least 105C steam plants with 6 months delivery. Hard to believe he would do that and have nothing to deliver as he would burn a VERY large owner and operator of thermal power plants.

                • georgehants

                  Engineer48, so your “clients” have not the slightest idea if the 1MW units are available or work as claimed.
                  About five years ago Mr. Rossi took thousands of orders for e-cats none of which have been delivered or even confirmed to work.
                  I fail to understand the logical reasoning you are using in this conversation.

                • Engineer48

                  What I said and maybe you failed to read was:

                  Rossi was ready to engage the ordering and money escrow process for 10 x 1MW at least 105C steam plants with 6 months delivery.

                • georgehants

                  Engineer48, I am ready to “engage the ordering and money escrow process for 10” Star-trek, warp-factor ten star ships, would you like to order some.

                • Engineer48

                  Now you just left the discussion with statements like that.

                  Please understand if I no longer reply to your trolling.

                • georgehants

                  Engineer48, my point is simple, you nor anybody on page can confirm at this time with clear repeatable confidence that Rossi is genuine.
                  Your abuse will not make you right, you are in error, if you reply to my clear Facts or not is entirely your choice.

                • Engineer48

                  I will leave you with one final post, which I have shared before.

                  Rossi stated an engineering team from the customer, including myself, would be able to visit a working 1MW ECat steam plant prior to signing the purchase contract and we would be able to do our own testing. Remember these guys are very experienced engineers who run and maintain steam powered thermal power plants. Expect they know more about steam than Rossi.

                • georgehants

                  Engineer48, what World do you live in, you say ——-
                  “Rossi stated an engineering team from the customer, including myself, would be able to visit a working 1MW E Cat steam plant prior to signing the purchase contract and we would be able to do our own testing. ——-
                  You seem to not be aware of what you write, the big words you are seemingly ignoring are “would be able”.
                  You do not seem to be able to agree the most simple point no matter how long you go on trying to change what I say.
                  I am saying, you nor anybody on page can confirm that Mr. Rossi is genuine NOW.
                  I am not a psychic and will not speculate on what could happen in the future.

                • Engineer48

                  Our discussion are over.

                  Enjoy trolling someone else.

                  Bye.

                • georgehants

                  Engineer48, thank you for chat and displaying your thinking for all to see.
                  I will look up in my dictionary and see if talking Facts is defined as trolling.

                • DrD

                  Sorry to hear that, — your client is waiting, as it could go on a long time, but it’s good to hear both parties are otherwise agrreable.

                • Engineer48

                  Power system engineers are very conservative as their balls are literally on the line to keep the grid up and running. Thus they can wait to avoid future testicular pain.

                  The 10 x 1MW 105C steam plants were not to generate electricity but to see how well they react to load changes and what their reliability, recharge and general maintenance is like.

                • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

                  Not quite literally I hope, or I’ll start wincing in sympathy each time I flip the kettle switch.

                • psi2u2

                  If I were in your position, I would work to persuade them to purchase one plant immediately for a test. It seems to me that if they have deep pockets it would be in their advantage to do so, because if they confirmed the plant’s specs as advertised they would then be in a position to jump to the head of the line by ordering and deploying as many more units as they wanted. Presumably the plant is covered by some kind of warranty?

                • Engineer48

                  DrD,

                  Yup.

                  Rossi made it very clear to me that all monies are placed into escrow until the mutually agreed handover specifications are met.

                • Stephen

                  Actually that’s not a bad idea. The charitable fund I mean, I guess it costs a lot though? There would be no conflicts if interest testing such a device if it’s for charity not business and when it’s ready what better way to use it than for those in need. Water purification comes to mind.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Certainly if the patent application is valid, someone “skilled in the art” could replicate the technology. However, the result might take a long time to effectively replicate. Rossi can be commercially successful by selling a device manufactured with and/or containing “trade secrets” that do not have to be divulged, but could not patent it. An example might be the method of fuel production.

      Even if Rossi is successful, there will still be a lot of controversy over what is actually happening until a plausible theory is advanced and tested. The theory I feel is much more important than the discovery, for it will allow the technology to advance in ways that the inventor did not even think of.

      Even if your statement is true, Rossi is under no obligation to do so based on his patent. Only a suit on the validity of the patent could force him to reveal the “secret sauce”.

      • georgehants

        Thomas, many thanks, helpful but does not address why Mr. Rossi finds it so important not to give a unit for testing without revealing any of the “secret sauce” etc.
        I do not find at this stage any need for a theory as only its utility is important, later it could be very helpful as long as it is not just a Dogma believed by the clever scientists that again delay Research for many years.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          To answer that question you need to dive deep into the inventor’s mind. I suspect that based on his life’ trials (and his being screwed and put in jail), his motivations are complex. I am willing to wait until a product is offered for sale. At that time, the technology can be examined in great detail.

          To me, a more important question is, “Why has not the US or other countries made it a part of their research budgets to investigate LENR?” When I talk to power systems people, fusion researchers and nuclear engineers, they usually have not heard of LENR. I think researchers have now definitely shown F&P’s results to be replicable. That should have unleashed monies for advancing the research. Alas, no money trickles out.

          • georgehants

            Thomas, so many questions, so few answers.
            Best

            • Engineer48

              George,

              1MW 105C steam ECats are available now. Rossi is interested to sell the plants as I have engaged the process.

              Engage Rossi to buy one or more and then use them to provide relief to those you feel can benefit from 1MW or more of 105C steam.

              • georgehants

                Engineer48, I think it is you that has been posting on page that your associates are trying to purchase said 1MW units.
                Please advise page when they are delivered and working efficiently. 🙂

                • Engineer48

                  George,

                  As I disclosed, they need 600C steam, which means they need to wait for QuarkX. Then they came back and started discussion on purchasing 10 x 1MW 105C steam plants but have decided to wait until the court case is decided. Rossi did give a delivery timeframe.

                  So it was my clients that decided to go slow, not Rossi.

                  Besides what does this have to do with you you wanting ECats to help people in 3rd world countries? Maybe explain how you went when you engaged Rossi to buy a few 1MW ECat plants to do this job? I mean you have asked him when he can deliver?

                • georgehants

                  Engineer, I have not asked when he can deliver, I simply make the point that after 5+ bloody years neither you or anybody outside of his immediate enviroment know if his claims are genuine.
                  If you think you can prove they are please give that proof here and now.

                • Engineer48

                  Rossi has said many time, the only proof he will offering is to his customers.

                  So if you want proof, become a customer.

                • georgehants

                  You are trying to get your “clients” to become a “customer” and have so far failed, it is impossible to work out any logic from your replies.

                • Albert D. Kallal

                  it is impossible to work out any logic from your replies.

                  The logic is perfectly clear.

                  Rossi has stated the only proof of his products will be from real customers.

                  So the logic here is if you want the truth about the ecat, then become a customer

                  You are trying to get your “clients” to become a “customer” and have so far failed

                  A better term would be product not yet delivered. And read close – they held off on the ecat because they NEED AND WANT the higher temp ecat-x and thus have to wait.

                  So the logic is perfectly clear. Quite much means Rossi opinion and statements are his proof of the ecat will be real customers and thus logically Rossi goal to prove the ecat will be when he starts delivering such products to customers.
                  Rossi simply not yet ready and thus we have to wait for that proof.

                  The above logic is crystal clear for anyone with a logical mind.

                  Regards,
                  Albert D. Kallal
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada

                • georgehants

                  Albert, good to see you again, another long rambling reply that misses the point.
                  If you consider that any part of Mr. Rossi discovery from 5+ years ago is repeatably and openly provable by replication generally, please give that information now or agree he has shown no such proof.

                • Albert D. Kallal

                  Rossi has not given solid proof and we have little to go on.

                  In fact Rossi has given us little reliable information on the ecat. In fact this is why Rossi is so controversial.

                  So no, we don’t know how solid Rossi’s claims are and we don’t have much if anything in the way of replications of the ecat. This is certainly the most troubling aspect of Rossi’s claims.

                  However, there is ample papers and documents on LENR and excess heat. And many replications of LENR have occurred. However we don’t have much in
                  terms of Rossi and the ecat.

                  I doubt any of the above is any kind of revelation to any of the readers here.

                  However none of the above changes the simple and CLEAR logic of of Engineer48 and what he stated.

                  Regards,
                  Albert D. Kallal
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada

                • georgehants

                  Thank you for confirming my Facts, a shame that you spoilt it by as you say —–
                  “However none of the above changes the simple and CLEAR logic of of Engineer48 and what he stated.”
                  ———
                  He has been responding to exactly the same Facts from me as you have just answered.
                  You cannot logically confirm a Fact and then not confirm it in the next sentence.

                • Albert D. Kallal

                  No, the logic and reason point is if you want solid proof of the ecat then become a customer.

                  Until such time then you not have that solid proof. A perfectly clear logical statement.

                  The above in changes nothing in terms of Rossi not having proved his product and that we have little if anything to go on.

                  However, becoming a customer would certainly be the best proof anyone could obtain, would it not?

                  However at this point in time, we don’t have sold proof and we don’t have customers. But real customers certainly will be the best proof.

                  Rossi has stated that customers are the best proof, so has Engineer48.

                  I not sure what part of this you cannot grasp?

                  And until such time that we have customers then anyone reading say posts on ECW (including Engineer48) will not have that proof, will they?

                  Regards,
                  Albert D. Kallal
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada

                • georgehants

                  Albert, O well back to your old ever expanding circles.
                  You have answered my clear Factual statement, Rossi has given no generally repeatable proof that any of his discoveries are genuine, now you want to go on and on trying to give some justification to something that has nothing whatever to do with my clear point.
                  I now wish to do something more worthwhile and cut my toenails so will be away for awhile.

                • Albert D. Kallal

                  Yes, I not only agreeing with you, but so is Egineer48.

                  I think most here are well aware that we have little to go on other than Rossi’s word.

                  We both have stated that if you want proof, become a customer.

                  If you saying that we have little if anything to go on now? Yes that most certainly the case and that’s the view of any person trained in reason.


                  I now wish to do
                  something more worthwhile and cut my toenails so will be away for awhile.

                  Right, so why you posting here then when it been perfectly clear to you all along that Rossi not given sold proof? I see this, Engineer48 sees this, and I think most readers see this. We always had little to go on.

                  Or are you admitting it taken you this long to determine this?

                  So if you were perfectly aware of this issue, then why you been posting here all this time then? (Perhaps to spew out your political agenda here). And if not been aware of this issue, then why are you so slow to mentally reason and figure out what is obvious to any person with reason?

                  Don’t you love logic, since either answer has ramifications – that’s why liberals hate the truth – by answering questions it reviles their own weakness of their positions!

                  Regards,
                  Albert D. Kallal
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada

                • georgehants

                  Albert, sorry still here to chuckle at your continuing attempts to cover up having to just stand-up clearly and say George you are perfectly correct with your Factual statement.
                  Now you are into politics etc.
                  I have been circumcised does that help you muddy the waters.

                • Albert D. Kallal

                  I think 2 = 2, and it not some big revelation to anyone here.

                  And I rather assumed that readers here all long ago realised 2 = 2 and that Rossi has little solid proof.

                  I trying to grasp why what is so dead obvious to most is somehow a big deal to you?

                  You actually are looking for validation from me to admit we have little solid proof about the ecat? You that weak in believing your own reasoning?
                  I cannot imagine that this position is a surprise to most.

                  Regards,
                  Albert D. Kallal
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada

                • georgehants

                  Albert, thank you for agreeing with my Facts again.
                  Would you like to add anything else?

                • Albert D. Kallal

                  Well, how about you answer my question then?

                  Did you just figure that you have little solid proof (and this thus shows your inability to grasp what is obvious).

                  Or did you figure his out long ago and thus admit you been wasting your time here, or have another agenda here?

                  Inquiring minds ant to know!

                  Regards,
                  Albert D. Kallal
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada

                • psi2u2

                  I “liked” this, as I almost always like Albert’s clearly reasoned posts, even with the political potshot, a classic overgeneralization.

                • Robert Dorr

                  George,

                  If you are so concerned whether or not Rossi’s e-cat works or not why don’t you buy one and let us all know. He is ready right now to build one for you. Why should we be the ones proving it to you, prove it to yourself. Take a chance and put your money where your mouth is.

                • georgehants

                  Robert, thank you I suggest you read the thread before jumping in with irrelevant comments.
                  To help, my point is that Mr. Rossi has given no generals available information or demonstration at this time to allow a replication of his work.
                  Do you agree or disagree>

                • Robert Dorr

                  I’m sorry to admit that I did indeed read this entire thread. Regarding Rossi, I strongly disagree. You seem to be very concerned about the direction
                  humanity is moving. If you were the one to buy one of Rossi’s 1MW
                  thermal plants and confirmed that it worked as stated, you would be
                  remembered as one that had a major role in the saving of mankind. Think
                  of the adulation you would receive.

                • georgehants

                  Robert, a very nice speech that completely avoided answering my very simple point.
                  Would you like to try again.

                • Robert Dorr

                  Please take your time and reread my response and you will see my answer, but this has grown tiresome, I must now go and cut my toenails.

                • georgehants

                  Robert, a not so nice speech that completely avoided answering my very simple point.
                  Would you like to try again.

                • Robert Dorr

                  Snip, snip, ‘clipping toenails’, snip, snip.

                • georgehants

                  Robert, a not so nice speech that completely avoided answering my very simple point.
                  Would you like to try again.
                  It is very easy for you to say that you are unable or unwilling to answer such a simple question but I never lose amazement at the thinking of some on page.

                • psi2u2

                  Nonsense. Engineer48’s posts are routinely among the clearest, most technically informed, and consistent in this discussion.

                • Thomas Kaminski

                  Engineer48,

                  I think we should all collectively ask the USA to add a Rossi E-Cat 105C unit in their proposed 2017 budget for Fusion Research, totaling $US 398Billion. See the chart attached, or for some great reading, read the proposed budget:

                  http://science.energy.gov/~/media/budget/pdf/sc-budget-request-to-congress/fy-2017/FY_2017_SC_FES_Cong_Budget.pdf

                  Hint: There is a bit of cash for ITER….

  • wpj

    I see that AR has chosen to remove/ignore/avoid my question of whether there was also 24h video monitoring in the production area.

    • Engineer48

      ?????

      That is not his business. If he supplied me steam, I would not agree to my steam provider videoing my production. Can’t imagine any customer agreeing to that.

      He has said there are numerous 24 hour videos of the 1MW plant and surrounds, including who visited, where and what.

      • wpj

        Easy to say yes or no.

        Clearly, a “yes” would give a lot of evidence to refute the claims of IH that there was no production (even though one of Mats L’s contacts says that they observed production).

        A “no” just leaves things as they are.

        • Engineer48

          I would believe Mat’s contacts before any statement by Weaver as he is the only one saying no customer, no production and as a self proclaimed IH shareholder, he has 89m vested reasons / interests in IH not paying Rossi $89m.

          • wpj

            Agreed.

        • Omega Z

          There are several manufacturers where I live.

          On rare occasions, they allow a few select people a tour of their facilities. However, you are not allowed any kind of video equipment or to take pictures. Which to most people seems quite strange as their competitors use very similar if not the exact same machinery.

          There all of the opinion that their particular layout/arranged process may provide them a competitive advantage. Many border on the verge of paranoia about Industrial espionage.

          That considered, No one would want a competitor to have the slightest clue they were involved with a LENR test. The fewer people aware of them having any involvement with this technology, the better.

  • Robert Dorr

    I think he is damn proud of what he has accomplished and doesn’t mind talking about it. I know that there is skepticism as to exactly what he has discovered and or invented but I think within 30 to 45 days we will know quite a bit more.

  • Robert Dorr

    I also much prefer well thought out ideas and arguments. There are many very active supporters of both camps, on this board and others, with very strong feelings. I consider you and several other skeptics on this board, wise to bring up questions that you find deserve answers and I have no problem with that and find it very constructive.

  • LuFong

    “We know the main “customer” personnel. They all get to visit with the judge soon. Big fake everything that was rep’d and warranted by Rossi and Johnson. I wonder what happens to a lawyer’s bar license when he signs a fake agreement like that then guarantees it?” — Dewey Weaver

    If true, this would be big. But to to me Weaver is a lot like Rossi, lots of talk but only some elements of truth to be gleaned.

    • kdk

      Lies and innuendo threats reveal the quality of character. Watch him operate and think about what it means as to how he views the world and what other sorts of things he might get up to.

      • Robert Dorr

        I hope nothing delays the start of the court case, because as soon has it starts, I think people like Dewey Weaver will no longer be making the rounds of the forums, although I will be very surprised if there aren’t many delays before we see anyone in court. I personally think that I.H. would like to drag it on as long as possible, possibly years.

      • Roland

        Projection is the last refuge of an unconsciously lived life; they just can’t stop doing it even though they are baring every dark thing they think about themselves to any eyes that can see them through this simple truth.

        They may not even be able to read the above sentence for reasons they can’t understand; and having been told this they are still none the wiser.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

          On the other hand, those who perceive the underlying hatred and viciousness of people like Weaver either consciously or subconsciously (the majority) are immediately repelled by the messenger and the message he carries. If Weaver thinks he is helping IH’s cause with his bile, he is rather sadly mistaken.

        • kdk

          Yeah, they’ve banned my internet from the New York Times, because I would probably get up to a bunch 9/11 truth telling mischief, and I might get some New Yorkers riled up.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTANZaYPCkw

          • georgehants

            kdk, ha yes, censorship is alive and well on such subjects.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

            Well done kdk – a mark of distinction! A couple of my avatars have been banned from ‘before it’s news’ for trying to shoot down some of the more extreme lunacy, but that’s too easy to count as distinction.

            • georgehants

              Morning Peter, all well I hope, the saga rolls on into a realm well beyond Lewis Carrol.

              • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

                Morning George. Yes, indeed. Although the particular turn of events was unforseeable, it’s always been inevitable that wheels would fall off (or be removed) somewhere between invention and production. Worse to come the closer AR claims to be to production I suspect (probably involving doors being kicked in at some unsociable hour).

                • georgehants

                  I hope you are wrong but in our society all to possible.
                  Have you an answer as to why he does not simply pass on a unit to test with say MFMP to show conclusively the practical reality of Cold Fusion for others to work on, while he faces up to all the obstacles thrown in his path.

                • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

                  I just don’t think he sees an advantage at this time – MFMP is a niche group and has no wide public credibility, so the pathos could easily smother such a test in doubt, disinformation and ridicule as usual. He may see the court case as an arena for publicity but who knows – the whole thing is hard to understand beyond the various speculations here. Truly a rabbit hole, as you infer.

                  One ray of hope as far as I’m concerned: – if Rossi finds is life becoming complicated in direct proportion to how close he gets to production, he might just publicly release the IP for the 1MW technology. Not much loss to him if ‘Quark’ works as well as claimed, immediate obliteration of IH and associates, proof positive that LENR is real and works, immediate engagement of tens of thousands of developers and manufacturers who would want to buy Quark power generators or licenses to make them – so very far from all bad.

                  Are you reading this Mr Rossi?

            • kdk

              Yes, it would basically be just asking people if they thought their propane grill could melt concrete and fuse it with a gun (and that’s not even original to me):

              https://donaldfox.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/wtc6.png

              • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

                Fascinating. I didn’t know about that one. The concrete debris would have to have been spalled off larger masses by exposure to a sustained temp of 1200C+ before the gun could have become embedded in a pile of spalling. The mass could have re-set afterwards when exposed to water.

                Jet fuel is essentially kerosene/paraffin – not even as hot burning as propane.

                • kdk

                  Exactly. Debris has been filmed from various angles disintegrating in mid-air (at least one piece before it hit the ground), meaning that it reached it’s boiling temperature, that’s also what is trailing behind the steel as it is ejected outward, streaming trails of itself as it evaporates from extreme heat… probably the same energy source responsible for launching all the other steel beams outward 50-70 mph.

                  When was the last time your grill turned into dust and blew into your neighbors yard and increased his risk of getting cancer by some huge margin? To the best of my knowledge, a spray-on coat of thermite (nano or otherwise) doesn’t disintegrate a steel beam.

      • psi2u2

        I think we should also remember that Weaver predicted that Rossi would “play the health card” soon. To me, of all the things I have read from Weaver, this is the one, especially in context, that leads me to conclude that he is (or at least is behaving like) an arrant thug, to coin a Shakespearean phrase. There is no excuse for that kind of talk in public.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    sad

  • Oystein Lande

    In theory e-cat could produce pressurised saturated steam. If that pressurised steam (say at 10barg) where depressurised thorugh a control valve (to say 1 barg) , you would produce superheated steam 😉

  • radvar

    And what about the $1000/day payments? That either happened or did not. Hard to “mis-interpret” that. “Follow the money…”

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    Am I reading too much into Rossi getting really quiet and Dewey hinting that a formidable entity had joined the fight against Rossi?

    • cashmemorz

      Who to trust. I have the same problem. Have to study each commentators history to figure out this.

      • Engineer48

        Mats has shared info from those he talked to that did visit the plant & saw production through an open door. Neither would seem to have financial interest in sharing false information.

        Weaver, who is the only person I know of that is claiming no customer & no production, being an IH shareholder, has 89m reasons to make statements to avoid IH paying Rossi the $89m.

        Maybe follow the money who has the most to gain?

    • Buck

      Probably . . . IMHO, sometimes it is just necessary to recognize that we are looking into the unknown with a whole host of potential players. We just have to wait to see the future unfold presenting new valued information such as Mat Lewan’s interview with Rossi.

      Between the moments of excitement, we wait.

    • Stephen

      He does like to stir things up taunt his perceived “opponents” and hint at things that maybe half or incomplete truths. Let’s wait and see.

    • DFarwell

      I noticed the same thing when scrolling down rossilivecat lately. To be honest, I am completely baffled by why Rossi gives out so much detailed information hourly before his lawsuit goes to court. A good lawyer will tell even a person who is 100% innocent to be careful what you say in the public before court. Rossi must really give his lawyer a serious headache daily lol.

    • Robert Dorr

      He does have a court date coming up. I think if I were him I be spending a bit of time going over the details and of course he’s been in Europe. Busy guy.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi is always mostly silent. For the most part, Rossi only responds to questions on JONP. As those posting on JONP ask less questions and make less statements, it would only appear Rossi is more silent.

      So by that measure, I don’t see Rossi getting really quiet. Only less questions asked of him on JONP.

  • artefact
    • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

      That’s a lot of lines for a non-existent technology : )

      Nice work.

    • http://sifferkoll.se Sifferkoll®
      • Roland

        Love it; even if it’s only half right it’s brilliant for viewing the general situation from a very useful meta-analyitical perspective.

        Did I somehow miss a couple of brothers?

        You’ve already noted that there are a number of people gathered around this wateringhole that have considerable skills and talents that they could bring to bear on the problems that will occur on the path towards optimizing the transition to a LENR civilization.

        More of them are stepping forward already.

        Among APCO’s, other, problems their ham-fisted stupidity is in the process crystallizing an opposition that, if they’re smart enough, they will eventually realize is running rings around them in every regard (excepting, of course, generating the kind of mass casualties they seem to find so depressingly unexceptional).

        P.S. It bears repeating; love the way your mind works. Schwarzkopf every step of the way brother.

    • http://sifferkoll.se Sifferkoll®

      Here’s the pic.