Are We in the Early Stage of LENR ‘Patent Farming’? (Doug Marker)

The following post has been submitted by Doug Marker

Some additional thoughts on the significance of LENR patents.

In the IT industry, there was a period a few years back (a consolidation phase after all the web creativity of the years 1990-2000) where certain companies searched the world for all and any IT related patents they could buy up. This era was known as the ‘patent wars’. The companies included Oracle, Microsoft, IBM, Novel Corp, and many others. They then began to use these patents to attack each other.

One famous court battle coming from ‘patent farming’ (very well known in IT circles). was when a company in the US named The SCO Group, claimed it owned the patent rights to the operating system called Unix and then sued IBM for over a billion $s claiming IBM had given parts of Unix (parts IBM had developed) to the Linux project (The Google ‘Android’ OS is a variant of Linux). Apple’s IOS and OS X are Unix variants). The lawsuit was said to have been secretly initiated and funded ‘under the counter’ by Microsoft (see link below).

It lasted for close on 9 years and held the IT industry and Linux back for a while. Microsoft were also fearful of the superior Mac OS & OS X. The belief at the time was that Microsoft desperately needed a pause to redevelop windows and some say the strategy worked for them as they did succeed with their Windows redevelopment efforts, but in the end Linux/Unix could not be stopped and Microsoft began to fade. Linux, Android & Apple’s OSes now dominate the IT world.

The whole thing was industrial warfare at its nastiest. See a sanitised summary here … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO/Linux_controversies

The Microsoft involvement is discussed here … http://techrights.org/2009/08/07/sco-and-anti-linux-microsoft-lawsuits/

In the end SCO lost the war when a court ruled that Novel Corp actually owned the Unix copyright. Then Novel with that ruling secured, donated Unix to the open source world thus ending the attempted sabotage of Linux. So as we see, Linux/Unix and their derivatives are now the most dominant operating systems in the world.

What it seems is happening in LENR land is that Industrial Heat are laying their foundation to dominate the LENR world by locking up all and any LENR based patents they can get control of. They have the war chest (the 89$ million they were supposed to pay to Andrea Rossi).

Also, while there are ‘vested interests’ doing their best to deride LENR (and Andrea Rossi), the buying price for any and all patents remains comparatively low.

The benefit in buying up any and all patents is that when you have enough of them you are in an extraordinarily powerful position to threaten anyone new into the field by claiming they have violated some aspect of one of your massive portfolio of patents.

I fear we are probably in the early phase of such a power grab and IH are the current front runners in the charge.

On the good side, this apparent patent power play tells me LENR has arrived, but on the bad side, it is being fought over in a global battle that may negate the real benefits to the world (climate and the less advantaged peoples of the planet who survive by burning fossil fuels).

This can be seen as our capitalism at it’s ugly worst.

Doug Marker

  • orsobubu

    G, i also tried to explain countless times to Warthog this basic and
    very simple concept, what a State is, what capitalism is, what state
    capitalism is, without any success at all.

  • Warthog

    Why? Because someone disagrees with the socialist meme you’re spinning??

  • Pweet

    That would only be meaningful if Mr. Rossi has what he says he has, and that governments somewhere where believe him.
    The longer this goes on in the manner it has, the harder it is to believe any of that is probable.
    The whole story becomes very much simpler and believable if we start with the premise that the statement from IH is correct; and that is, they could not substantiate Rossi’s results.
    Any deviation from this necessarily gets far more speculative and complex.

  • HS61AF91

    Big difference to me is one’s a communications enhancer, and the other makes energy. If you get a machine that makes energy, paying xxx dollars for it. After awhile xxx amount of energy will equal the xxx dollars spent. Then the miracle happens, the machine just keeps on energizing. But that idea of a patent war is surely real, and Dr. Rossi is on to it, and did not let IH slip away with the goods. His ‘goods’ anyway, protected by not only a patent, but by a preparatory method still unique at the moment. Only a matter of time for it to be replicated, but by then, the new energy paradigm will have been firmly entrenched.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Beware; we are entering a dangerous time for LENR. I saw and predicted this fight between Dr. Rossi and IH; on this site. Dr. Rossi, in a way, predicted what is happening right now; if you have been following his site JONP, he has been vigilant to not let Crony Capitalists (my words, Wikipedia definition) take control of his E-Cat IP. I am afraid it is happening right before our eyes, IH has hired the brightest and the best propagandists and legal minds to bend public opinion and our laws to take control of LENR. A landslide of misinformation and legal maneuvering, probably very subtle, is about to hit Dr. Rossi, his IP and E-Cat.

  • Warthog

    I can only say that you are grossly ignorant of history. Capitalism evolved naturally within history, as technology forced development of systems outside of feudalism. Any and all systems of socialism have been imposed from the top down, mostly by violent revolution.

    The “credit” for an invention goes to the guys listed on the patent(s), summing to 100%. That has zip to do with commercialization.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    The link of Microsoft funding the lawsuit is less then direct, and is somewhat speculative.

    And SCO never really was patent trolling. They felt that IBM and others were lifting code, or
    releasing code for Linux that was owned by SCO.

    So up to this point, I think SCO had every right to pursue this case. The irony was that eventually the courts ruled that SCO never owned UNIX – Novell did!

    So I can’t say that SCO attempting to protect their rights was a nasty fight. And I don’t see any evidence
    that SCO launched this lawsuit on behalf of Microsoft.

    I rather liked SCO Unix and had lots of my software running on that system. (and later on, of
    course Linux).

    But I will say that patents in the software industry does give rise to many fights – just look at
    Apple when they attempted to own the idea of a trash can on the graphical
    desktop.

    Patient rights are a cornerstone of our western society. This is just like property ownership.

    It is any wonder that companies like IBM push and promote open source, close down jobs in North America, but now have more developers in India then the USA? IBM leases hardware and services,
    but promotes open source to lower costs of developers.

    So like any company closing down plants and manufacturing in North America, and shipping those jobs
    out to china, IBM does exactly the same thing in terms of developers and jobs in North America.

    Business often tends to have complement services. For example hotels in Vegas love low cost
    airlines as that keeps hotels full. And the reverse also exists: airlines love low cost hotels into Vegas as that keeps their airplanes full! So each party often makes moves to lower the cost complement things that helps their bottom line.

    So airlines really don’t care if Hotels make money! (or in the case of IBM – developers). So be it
    hotels, or IBM promoting open source, they do it to lower costs in their products they sell.

    I am a strong believer in property rights, patent rights etc. The LESS of these rights we
    have, the less jobs and prosperity that exists in such countries. If you reach a point in which FEW people have ownership of things (property or patent rights), you wind up like most 3rd world poor countries that forces people to live off of socialists handouts (no one has ownership of anything!). So ownership of things is a HUGE issue and very important. Without such rights then every type of job can (and will) be shipped off to places like China.

    So grating ownership is quite much the reason for success of western societies. As we give up such
    rights such as free trade etc., then rights of nations are being given away to borderless corporations that don’t care about the wellbeing of the country. So such rights are VERY important, and when nations give up such rights, then the ability of people to control their nation has been given up. In fact, the rights will be transferred over international courts and the country will not even have a say in such trade rulings anymore – not even elected officials can change these open treaties.

    So property rights, patent rights etc. are a pillar of any strong nation. Give up all rights, and
    your nation goes to the dogs of the world and people of their own nations will not have a say in how their nations are run.

    The following speech (the pen) explains this all so well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEZszGJHbK4

    In fact, the only thing that stopped the signing of the climate deal was that climate gate broke
    a few weeks before the Copenhagen summit.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Gerald

      I think you are right, companies like e-mc2, cisco and oracle will suffer big time because of google open sourcing their datacenter technology. The big companies depend on such a big sales force they become to expensive. It looks like a good thing because things get cheaper but I’m affraid next to the lose of a lot of jobs that their will be less places where young people can learn to work.

    • doug marker

      Your knowledge of the events indicates it is from what you read today. Some of us were there in the thick of that battle. The SCO software you liked was an entirely different company that went under and got obtained by Caldera Inc (who then changed their name to the SCO Group so as to piggy back of SCO’s goodwill. The involvement of Microsoft was far more clear than you are now (in hindsight) portraying. You clearly know little of Ralph Yarrow and his patially succesful attempt to sieze control of Ray Noorda’s Novell empire. It was a very nasty period. Yarrow was the driver of much of what happened.

      D Marker.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        I will fully accept that it was in the “interest” for Microsoft to keep SCO afloat and thus keep the lawsuit going. However, it not really clear that SCO launched the lawsuit on behalf of MS or at their urging.

        And while I am a strong believer in property and patent rights, the system has flaws that need addressing.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Gerard McEk

    I like this piece of analysis of Doug Marker also (from EgoOut):
    It may well be an important aspect in this LENR gate affair:

    “DOUG MARKER’S OPINION

    The issue of patents could be an explanation for what is going on between IH & Rossi.
    “Lack of patent protection for Rossi’s invention”

    Three years ago it looked like Piantelli had one of his patents granted but Rossi objected and succeeded in getting the grant overturned. Rossi cited his own prior art (his flawed 2008 Italian patent application that only got through in Italy and was rejected everywhere else including WTO and USPTO).
    It now seems that Piantelli’s earlier overturned patent has been restored as granted (this was ratified at the WTO website in the past few days) which obviously occurred after Piantelli appealed the reversal of his overturned 2013 patent grant.
    I had always wondered if Piantelli would appeal the reversal of that 2013 granting as the way it looked after it was reversed, was that Rossi had won the battle of the patents. But no he hasn’t. So I am more than confident IH would in no way hand over the final $89 million if they had serious doubts that Rossi would retain his win over Piantelli.

    My next question is has IH established a relationship with Piantelli’s NICHenergy ?. If yes then I believe we have a likely answer as to IH holding back.
    Also, am still of the opinion that Rossi does have a working eCat. Just that there are serious doubts as to ability to patent protect his invention. But, it also has to be argued that Rossi is the person who took Piantelli’s sluggish research and drove it forward. To that end he would deserve recognition. The logical answer would have to be agreement between Piantelli & Rossi over cross patenting but as we both know, Piantelli has a deep dislike for Andrea Rossi after the affair with Focardi obtaining help for Rossi from Piantelli without disclosing to Piantelli he was passing Piantelli’s assistance back to Rossi.
    The prognosis is for a long stand-off. But Rossi is a pretty determined man who appears to have made great advances so who knows how it will play out.”

    • psi2u2

      Very interesting possibility.

    • BillH

      The only thing that can be said about that then is that on all occasions so far AR has chosen his partners very unwisely. I doubt very much there is any link between IH and Piantelli, but you can search for one if you like.

    • clovis ray

      HI, Gerald.
      well, I will have to disagree, but that your story, the last bit was closer to the truth.
      piantelli,PHffff,
      HERE IS THE TRUTH,Dr. Rossi, invented the effect, hence the name, it can, in my way of thinking be compared with, the ambrosia. as you well know who ever controls this device, could in time control the everything. now a sum of, a few million is chicken feed,
      I have full on confidence that dr. Rossi has this all well in hand, he has been there done that, time and time again, if you have something that is as powerful, as this device.
      Everybody, will want one, for sure, we have to help Dr. Rossi, AGAINST the dark side
      when we can,

  • georgehants

    Just like Cold Fusion I always prefer Facts and Evidence against unfounded opinion.
    ———–
    Disaster capitalism is a permanent state of life for too many Americans
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/24/disaster-capitalism-permanent-state-life-americans

    • Warthog

      WHAT “unfounded opinion”?? The comments I made are easily enough verified. A little time on LENR-CANR.ORG will find them.

      And what, exactly does that ridiculous link have to do with cold fusion??? Can you not PLEASE stick to the subject of this board and not drag in extraneous and totally unrelated garbage.

      • georgehants

        Warthog as usual you try to switch your subject to suit yourself, Ha.
        You said —– “but it ain’t the capitalists doing it.”
        and I replied showing you how capitalists are affecting everything from Cold Fusion to drug availability.
        Sorry you get upset when Facts are placed before you, but as with the scientists faced with P&F and now Rossi etc. one day they will learn only Truth is important but not all the while they can gain financially from their crimes.
        bye.

        • Warthog

          Uh, no, George. The people retarding Cold Fusion are NOT capitalists….they are academics and government employees/bureaucrats (with the bureaucrats mostly drawn from the same physics community as the academics). Capitalism has virtually nothing to do with situation.

          I get upset with your irrelevant postings and comments that have nothing to do with the topic under discussion, which is “supposed” to be “cold fusion”, and not the wages of government employees in leftist cities.

  • BillH

    I’m sorry, but the premise on which this article is based is flawed:-

    https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

    So the assumptions made from these contentions is flawed.

    Phones OS’s is a completely different market BTW.

    • kdk

      The backbone, and majority, of the internet is hosted on Unix/Linux servers. The work that personal computers do compared to that is rather small.

      • BillH

        Entirely different market, sorry.

      • orsobubu

        I think that the infrastructural backbone are mainly semi-automated unix-linux servers, but the work force by human operators is mainly outputted on windows machines, I mean all the global world of people sitting before a screen and producing the whole amount of IT products: docs, spreadsheet, photos, videos, chats, etc etc. Take into account that a great part of this work is not recognized as work and not paid: ie, google is an economic giant, but with comparatively a few wage workers. The real capital produced in the capitalistic economic system is due exclusively to human work (exploited by the capitalist: the surplus value converted; robots cannot produce capital), so google business is made upon a huge global human effort extorted to all the people struggling and working around all the automated gadgets and services, for example in buying something on the internet and writing free reviews. On the contrary, a relatively few unix professionals maintain a large basis of infrastructural nodes, but the capital really produced during their effective and well-payed worked hours is relatively small. Perhaps something is going to change now with mobility services mainly under android, but I think that this type of work is not yet in substitution of the type of work made upon desktop and laptop machines, but in addition to them instead.

        • kdk

          The amount of development hours going into specifically Microsoft or Unix based programs, or the amount of computing done on either system is an interesting question which itself would take much computing.

        • doug marker

          5 years or more ago I may have agreed with your Windows POV but today pcs are completely swamped by tablets, smartphones and other devices. The latter are dominated to a very high degree by UNIX/Linux derived devices.

          The Windows server is a very nice system, but it only has a tiny share of the total server global market. Windows is not dominant in China and India, the worlds largest pic markets.

          Cheers Doug Marker

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Much agree. And I actually think that phone OS is VERY important, because they represent a significant amount of “time” that people spend interacting with a computer – even if it is a phone. And also “most” of the phone software is driven by servers – which once again tends to be Linux based.

        Apple for example makes the top 20 in the global fortune 500 list. HP, Sony, and even Dell make the top 50.

        IBM is about 60, and Apple is in the top 20. Samsung is 13!

        HP is 53

        Microsoft is 95th (2015). So they actually made the top 100 (which surprised me since they never used to make the top fortune 100 list).

        People assume MS is large because they see the OS on desktops, but in the scheme of things, and when compared to technology companies like HP or IBM, we see MS is not even close.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    You can not patent the nuclear reactions. There will be particular patent: the composition of the fuel, its preparation, the formation of the surface of the fuel particles, methods of initiation of the reaction, the device design.

  • Alex Fenrick

    Michael…I would take “Jimmy Hugh’s” words with a grain of salt. Take a peek at the grammar patterns in that message as well as rhetoric with very specific details and see if it matches up with anyone else you have read. This is also a bit of a strange thing for someone to say to Rossi “( see the report of the conferences and interviews made in the USA,China, Italy by Darden )”. That statement worded that way sounds to me like it should come from the other side of the conversation. Just throwing it out there…..

    • Obvious

      Maybe APCO or somebody else is using one of their special talents to stir the pot.

  • Warthog

    The longest time any company can “sit on a patent” is twenty years, which is less than an eyeblink in history. At that point, anybody can build and sell the patented technology.

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    At this time i think the only way LENR can advance is to crack te process and open source it, go MFMP…

  • Michael W Wolf

    It reminds me of a saying. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Which we have yet to witness.

    • Warthog

      Nope….no such requirement exists in real science. Just replicated experimental results.

  • pg

    Jimmy Hugh (H)

    April 20, 2016 at 7:52 AM

    Dear Dr Rossi:

    This is big.

    Read carefully, because gives evidence of the fraud made by IH.

    Mr John Dewey Weaver, CEO of the venture capital group ” Deep River Venture”, in Raleigh, North Carolina, is going around the world to inform everybody that the test on the 1 MW plant has been not valid and that your process does not work, and is making this with gusto. But I know him, and I want you to know this: Deep River Venture” has been an empty shell from July 7 2012 to May 6 2015. In this year Mr John D. Weaver, old friend of Tom Darden, has collected money from investors to put it in IH Holdings International Ltd, wherein also Woodford has put 50 millions. All this money had to be collected to buy your IP, that was very hot, with the test on course of the 1 MW Plant, that Tom Darden promoted everywhere as a fantastic test, in conferences he made in US, in China. But that money has taken other directions; in fact, IH International Holdings Limited from the beginning knew that they were not going to pay you, even if, to convince their investors to give them the money, they were saying that the test on the 1 MW plant was stellar ( see the report of the conferences and interviews made in the USA,China, Italy by Darden ). For this reason, they started to buy patents and IP around the world, paying them few hundred thousands of dollars, plus MILLIONS in shares that are worth nothing, because all that IP they bought around the world is made by things that never worked: revoked or rejected patents or patents on things of small value, among which a printer; I should be nery curious to know how the “fair value” of such shares has been certified…

    It is clear that guys like John D. Weaver are just puppets of Darden, used to collect money: the “Deep River Venture” of Raleigh, NC, is a company that has a turn over of 88 000 $: which weight can it have in a concern that Woodford structured with 50 million $ ??? So, why he is spending so much time to travel around all the world to slander you ?

    We are sending you evidence of what I wrote here.

    The next gift will be the presentation of the real nature of the “PhD” : I tell you: it will be fun!

    Cheers

    H

    Andrea Rossi

    April 20, 2016 at 9:03 AM

    Jimmy Hugh (H):

    No Comment.

    A.R.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Interesting….. another message with the tell-tale extra space at the beginning and end of the parenthesis, vitriol and rhetoric with an odd amount of inside information. Call me a pathoskeptic AGAIN….but I am quite confident I know exactly who “Jimmy Hugh” is…..quite transparent.

      • kdk

        Us in the peanut gallery aren’t going to have any effect on the outcome of the court case, unless he’s honestly worried about shenanigans. If it is him, he might also want to avoid directly linking himself to charges that might get libel cases brought against him, which whether libelous or not, would cost money. Shell companies have been mainstays of shenanigans for a long, long while, from CIA, other intelligence organizations, and corporations to tax havens, due to the obfuscation they provide.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

      Alex Fenrick doesn’t appear to be a Rossi fan, but I don’t think there can be much doubt that he is correct, and this is an example of Rossi ‘talking to himself’ in order to get some snippet out that he doesn’t want to be directly associated with. The language pattern and punctuation is an exact match with Rossi’s written English.

      He needs to be careful with this tactic as IP discovery might confirm this quite easily.

      The question is why. As kdk says, we in the peanut gallery can’t affect the court case, but despite this, Rossi seems to want the observers to know about the dirty tricks being used against him. Unless this is purely personal, in this particular instance the only purpose I can see is that Rossi is telling IH that he is aware of what is going on, and that he has evidence of this (“We are sending you evidence..”) that he can produce in court. A bit tenuous I’ll admit.

    • Pweet

      Good grief! This really is just too much!
      Just read even just the first line a few times and see if you recognise the style and syntax.

      “Read carefully, because gives evidence of the fraud made by IH.”

      Starting right there in the very first line it then carries on with so much in this post that screams the identification of someone we know so well, and it’s certainly is not Jimmy Hugh (H).

      I have noticed other posts on the JONP lately which also have the same characteristic style and syntax and coincidentally, they all have the same format, and that is to reiterate the excellence of the !MW plant and performance, demonise IH and personnel, and exonerate Mr. Rossi of any fault or shortcomings.
      I think this post is transparently fake, and it’s not the only one.

      • Jerry Soloman

        Pweet this is just wishful thinking on your part.

      • BillH

        The poor use of English does indeed point to a writing style I know well, this story appears to be coming to a sad conclusion…

  • jousterusa

    Given the nature of capitalism and the state of our laws and professional ethics, this kind of battle is inevitable, even if all you’re inventing is the mood ring or the pet rock. Smart businessmen anticipate this struggle and prepare well for it; It is heartening that AR and his lawyers seem to have been in out in front of this battle and their contracts and briefs are wellprepared. But, again, the battle is inevitable so long as crooks want to steal the work of honest people like Andrea Rossi or Nikolai Tesla.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Nothing stops new researchers from re-inventing whatever Rossi is hiding from the market (assuming it works). If Rossi has something that is useful he must disclose it in patent sufficient for a third party skilled in the art to make it work (incontrovertibly) or else some other company will exploit it while Rossi continues to hide behind his trade secrets.

    Patents are too long, but a government can ignore a patent in their public interest. Once the secret is public, there will be knockoffs if the licensing fee is unreasonably high or if the restraint of trade prevents widespread usage.

    When the techniques being used for commercial LENR come out (and they will), it doesn’t matter who owns the patents — the technology will be massively exploited by multiple parties.

    • Observer

      A patent that tells you how to build a system with COP of 2 also protects a variation with COP of 50.

      Just because you have a blue-print for a violin does not mean you have the ability to produce a Stradivarius.

      • Rene

        Actually no, the patent of a COP 50 will have novel claims that prevented the COP 2 patent from achieving COP 50. Patents can build on other patents so long as the new claims are unique. Happens all the time.
        I believe this is why Rossi is keeping the secret sauce fuel prep and excitation tech a trade secret, and why this entire fight is about trying to extricate that ‘Stradivarius’ secret as being part of the ‘violin’ patent.

        • Brent Buckner

          A patent that tells you how to build a system with COP of 2 may also protect a variation with COP of 50 in the sense of being a blocking patent.

          • Rene

            Not necessarily. It’s all about the claims.

            • Brent Buckner

              Yes, that why I used the word “may” not the word “will”.

    • Mike Rion

      If you think the government will step in, in defense of the public you are being naive. If they step in they will do it either in the interest of military development or to protect “big energy”. If you think the banks were too big to fail just wait until “big energy” starts to cry foul.

  • Anon2012_2014

    1) It’s Novell, not Novel.

    2) The problem is the duration of patents and copyright is bad for society. They should last for 3 to 5 years to repay for research and innovation, not 20 years to create a monopoly which slows down our societies adoption of innovation, or 70 to 100 years for de-facto standards like Windows. Originally software was not patentable — but that has gone back and forth. Nothing good comes of monopoly rents that last in perpetuity. That is what we have — intellectual property laws gone wild.

    • Warthog

      Right for copyrights, wrong for patents. Five years is far too short a time in which to bring technology to market. And the prevention of “monopoly rents that last in perpetuity” is exactly why patents were originated in the first place. BP (before patents), inventors would keep as much technology as they humanly could SECRET. This very frequently resulted in critical technology being lost to humanity for centuries before being re-invented and applied to the benefit of humanity.

      • georgehants

        Warthog, only in this crazy capitalist system, try hard to imagine Cold Fusion being announced 27 years ago without the interference of personal and institutional interference and where it could be now, if Mr Rossi is genuine.
        Or can we not improve on your centuries old methods?

    • BillH

      Not so, the alternative to copyright/IP is to keep things completely secret. For example, AR could have set up his own power plant, got a license to feed power into the Grid and got paid pot-loads of money without ever having to reveal a single thing. The problem however with keeping secrets is that when the inventor dies the technology can also die with him. The problem with releasing ideas into the wild as it were is that there is a step change in technology which can often become chaotic and dangerous, consider what would have happen if the formula for Nitroglycerine had been suddenly released, then there is also the action of unintended consequences, where some new technology can be put to an unforeseen and dangerous use.

  • kdk

    I think more people are catching on to their endless antics.

  • Rossi Fan

    Let’s not get ahead of ourselves please. LENR is anything but proven technology. For all we know it is a figment of imagination. Everyone who has ever claimed to achieve it has been either a) so unclear as to make no sense b) came up with some lame excuse not to show what is under the kimono

    Also SCO Unix is not a good analogy. All Rossi has to do is start demos and allow for validators and testers to do their thing. No need to release the secret sauce. Same thing he did for IH. He does that and he can make $89 off of royalties for his autobiography. He would be the most interesting man in the world.

    • enantiomer2000

      Agreed. So far there is very little evidence for LENR being real. I don’t count milliwatts of excess power conclusive evidence. Rossi is basically the only guy claiming that he has extraordinary power being produced, but it is behind the curtain. It has been behind the curtain for the last 8 years with always some extra delay popping up. This time it is the lawsuit. Still waiting…

      • Billy Jackson

        Normally i don’t go all rabid on anyone.. but this irks me… Rossi is the only guy claiming excess energy? wow.. how easy to dismiss everything from Industrial Heat’s own patent by their own hands, 7 reputable scientist that did the Lugano report, and all the individual labs who have done their own testing and reported on their findings.. let alone, NASA, Mitsubishi.. and so on and so on.. the level of intentional disregard is damn near criminal you don’t get to dismiss facts and findings or twist them because they are “inconvenient” to your bias.

        • psi2u2

          Ya, pretty sorry state of affairs, Billy.

      • Michael W Wolf

        Oh there is a lot of “evidence”, no proof can be asserted, at least by outsiders.

      • Warthog

        Nope. Brillouin and Lenuco.

    • Ged
    • Obvious

      UNcLEaR reactions is new, in vogue, term for CF-LENR.

      Soon everyone will be doing it, or will claim to know someone who does.
      It will be in all the tabloids, with National LENequirer and World Unclear News posting scandalous break-ups, patent infringements, wardrobe malfunctions, and the latest reactor design tips.
      E-Cat World will be a serious magazine, with a well-heeled clientele, and stodgy news reports analyzed in intense detail. A staff of hundreds of paid and respected journalists roaming the globe…

    • psi2u2

      “For all we know it is a figment of imagination.”

      No no no no no. This is just not true any more. Please read up. There’s not any serious ground to doubt the reality of LENR. The only thing in doubt is whether the science is mature enough to commercialize.

      • builditnow

        Correct, anyone who says that there is nothing to LENR has simply not done the most cursory homework. Ignore wikipedia, it’s been sanitized. Review LENR.ORG. That LENR is real is proven to a higher degree than you or I exist. Ready to commercialize is the only remaining question.

        • Anon2012_2014

          When any college professor can order some parts and in a few days build a demo for his introductory thermodynamics auditorium class showing more than 100 watts out and a COP > 5, then its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

          As long as complex measurements of minute quantities are needed that are subject to measurement error, LENR is not fully proven. I have read the papers. We need more to get mainstream science teaching LENR to every 3rd year undergraduate physics or engineering student in thermodynamics class.

      • Anon2012_2014

        “The only thing in doubt is whether the science is mature enough to commercialize.”

        The only thing to doubt is whether Rossi delivered a commercially workable prototype to Industrial Heat, or just a complicated experiment that can’t be sold because it is not useful enough for people to buy.

        • psi2u2

          That is included in what I said.

        • Michael W Wolf

          I don’t think that is the case. But for some reason I think that is exactly what IH will claim, if they respond to the lawsuit at all.

    • Observer

      Rossi has given demonstrations and observers have witnessed the E-Cat in operation. Alas, just because one knows something to be true, does not necessarily mean one can transfer that knowledge to others.