Mats Lewan Calls for Group Effort to Get to the Truth on Rossi/IH Affair

Mats Lewan has posted on his An Impossible Invention site a call for a concerted effort among people involved in and following the E-Cat story to join forces in a truth-finding campaign so we can get a clear understanding of what is going on in the story of Andrea Rossi, the E-Cat and Industrial Heat.

The link is here: https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/20/lets-join-forces-to-bring-out-the-truth-on-rossi-ih-affair/

Mats lays out some of the things he has learned from various parties (most of which have been discussed at length here) and ends with this challenge and invitation:

Even if we consider the probability very low for LENR to be possible, I urge that you honestly consider two things:

  • In case it really works, would you like a possible transition to LENR based energy in the world to be governed mostly by the work and actions of lawyers and lobbyists at APCO Worldwide and Jones Day?
  • Admitting that there might be at least a minor possibility that the E-Cat and LENR is valid, on which side would you prefer to be—those who fight for it to be used to get away from fossil fuels and provide cheap and clean energy to everyone on Earth as soon as possible, or those who are trying to stop it, referring to the possibility that Rossi is a fraudster, or at least slow down the transition in order to protect some powerful people’s interests?

Having answered these two questions, you can make up your mind on how you would like to contribute to the outcome of the affair that’s going on. And whatever decision you take, I strongly suggest that we all join forces to bringing out the truth and make this affair and its implications as visible to the world as possible.

I also suggest that all people who are working with replications attempts and believe that they have a positive result, try to validate the result with the help of independent institutions and make them public.

Lastly, I guarantee that I will protect the identity of people who contact me to share sensible information, if that is required. 

I am still puzzled by the numerous apparent contradictions that we are hearing from various sources, and I know I am not alone. One would assume that more will be revealed in the court case, and of course in the ERV report — but for the legal proceedings to play out could take years (e.g. it took 11 years for the US Supreme Court to finally resolve the Writer’s Guild vs. Google suit over Google Books — and I think we are probably dealing with something more important than the Google Books database here).

I hope Mats’ campaign helps uncover more pertinent information. Maybe it will turn out to be a parallel trial — one held in the court of public opinion on the internet.

  • Josh G

    Really, you should take your own advice and just let this go — you just keep putting your foot deeper and deeper down your throat. You’ve already lost this argument and you don’t even realize it.

    You’ve got things upside-down and inside-out. I’m not the one who is “determined to believe” in anything. My belief that there was a conspiracy to bury cold fusion is based on evidence. My understanding of how the incentives of academia work to marginalize experimental results that challenge the existing paradigm (as well as the existing flow of grant money) is based on well understood dynamics of the scientific field based on historical studies of science (like Kuhn) and boatloads of studies of peer review, in addition to my own personal experience. You don’t even need to posit a conspiracy to understand that. All you need is a brain and dash of common sense, both of which you sorely lack.

    You are the one who is determined to deny any conspiracy, despite all the evidence for it. You are the one who is determined to believe in some fairy-tale notion of science and academia where everyone is a champion of the truth, no matter how painful. I wish I could live in your fantasy world, but I prefer to deal with things as they are.

    As for a magic .pdf that will provide evidence for cold fusion — just have a look-see over at lenr-canr.org. You’ll find lots of .pdfs there. I’m not going to bother linking to any of them, because I know how this works: you’ve established an arbitrary threshold about the evidence you need to prove that LENR is real, but as soon as I send you a pdf that will satisfy you, you will change the goal posts. Repeatedly. I’m too weary of shills to play that game with you, as I don’t care playing Charlie Brown to your Lucy. Anybody who has seriously studied the LENR phenomenon knows that your criteria have been met. You’ll have to find someone else to take your bait. If you’re genuinely curious, go ask Jed Rothwell. But since you’re not genuinely interested in LENR (which I infer from your ignorance of the field), I can’t imagine you’ll actually do that.

  • Engineer48

    To who ever can answer these questions.

    I’m interested to know more about the Dog Bone HotCat reactors that were tested at Lugano.

    1) Were these reactors manufactured by IH as I have read?

    2) Did IH test the reactors COP prior to shipping them to the testers?

    3) If they were tested, what was the COP & info on any other tests that were performed prior to shipping?

    4) If they were not tested why would IH ship untested reactors to the testers?

    5) Did any IH people visit the test site or assist in the testing?

    Thanks in advance for your reply….

    • Obvious

      1. Yes.
      Rossi and Darden have said so, as well as the Lugano report.
      The rest of your questions I have seen no direct info for, although the general evidence seems to be that the Lugano reactor was not used before the test. Presumably it was expected to work.

      • Engineer48

        Why would IH ship a reactor they knew did not work as per their claim they never could substantiate Rossi’s work.

        The Lugano reactor was their build. Now they expect us to believe they developed a product that they never achieved a COP > 1? Very hard to believe.

        • Obvious

          One would tend to think that the design had been used before, and was expected to function. The winding pattern is very specific, as well as the fit of all the pieces, based on the patent application photos of the parts (converted to drawings later).
          Such a high current design would need some testing to confirm that it would not melt or short out immediately, IMO.

          • Engineer48

            My point is the Dog Bone design must have been tested at some time and found to achieve some expected COP.

            If it had a COP <=1 why ship it to Lugano to be subjected to independent verification?

            As for the shipping without testing, as a manufacturer, well past manufacturer, I can assure that no reputable manufacturer would ship an untested product, which would be run at 1,300C, for 30 days, into a independent verification process. No way would that ever happen. It is just opening the door to Murphy causing chaos.

            • Obvious

              I agree.

              • Engineer48

                Which implies that the IH statement about never being able to substantiate Rossi is not the truth.

                Their Dog Bone product makes their statement seem very strange.

                • Obvious

                  I don’t know how or if COP was tested, but the Lugano device is a liability nightmare to hand out. It is electrically not far from wrapping a few coat hangers around a tube. Without the special control box, it is fire and death waiting to happen, if the main breaker was big enough to deliver the device’s maximum potential ampacity for a few seconds.

                • Engineer48

                  So what is new?

                  1,300C is HOT. If placed in the hands of someone not qualified to install and test it properly, sure it could damage property, people and maybe cause death.

                  Same can be said for any high power / high temp device. Ever mishandle a Oxy torch or either of the gas bottles? Or a high power Arc welder? Or seen what happens when a high rpm grinding wheel explodes or molten metal flows across a shop floor that has some moisture content?

                • Obvious

                  The thing is capable on paper of at least 66,000 W output until it fails, which would not be long. I’d sooner light O before A than plug the Lugano device into a circuit meant to deliver it’s peak power.

                • Engineer48

                  I design control systems. Not a biggie to do. To the industrial heat world, the Dog Bone is a kiddy toy.

                  Every play with a 40MW boiler with 1,500C exhaust products and 600C subcritical steam at very high pressure? Contact with either will do a very nasty and instant kill.

                  Anyway the conversation has moved away from my intent, which was IH built the Dog Bone and shipped it to Lugano. That is public fact. There is no way they did not test the device’s COP before shipping it. To do anything else says they are incompetent.

                • Obvious

                  Agreed again.
                  What I mean is that device design had to be tested, a lot, to be sure that it could be made to work at all. Nobody normally thinks to build a heater like that. Usually the heater will have enough resistance to limit itself. In this case, the controller is the limit, and the heater will just take anything you give it until it or something in the supply line melts or a breaker thankfully shuts it down.

  • Timar

    Mats Lewan just gave this update:

    “April 24. I have received a copy of an electricity
    statement, from Florida Power & Light Company, issued on JM Chemical
    Products Corp., for the period February 2 until March 2, 2015. The
    total amount of energy consumed is 7,251 kWh. Depending on when the
    plant was put in operation for the one-year test (assuming at the latest
    February 16) this indicates an average consumption of about 10 to 20
    kWh per hour. The Service Address on the statement is 7861 NW 46th
    Street, Doral, FL 33166-5470, which is the same as the official address
    listed for JM Products, and also where photos were taken that according
    to visitors to the plant looked like the place they visited. The amount
    charged is $1,266, while the amount for the previous month was $309,
    which is about a quarter, possibly indicating some early test activity.

    This statement proves that electricity corresponding to what the 1MW
    plant should have consumed at a successful COP of about 50 has been
    consumed at the address reportedly being where the test was undertaken.
    It doesn’t prove any production by the customer, nor anything about the
    amount of energy produced by the MW plant, and consequently nothing
    about the COP. My source is not Rossi.”

    • Mats002

      Good reliable info! As usual with LENR input power is managable, output is much harder.

      Of course some other source of input energy is possible but nevertheless a good start.

  • Josh G

    You obviously haven’t read Eugene Mallove’s investigative work on the conspiracy to cover up child’s fusion at MIT. In fact I would be surprised if you’ve read anything but your scripted talking points. But I’ll give you props. It takes real chutzpah to come on a website of cold fusion enthusiasts and declare without the slightest hint of irony or embarassment that there is no evidence of a world changing technology being suppressed. That’s rich. Thanks for giving me a laugh. I needed it.

  • jousterusa

    The American Reporter (www.american-reporter.com) was the first online or print news pub in America to reveal the presence of the growing Zika virus threat to the Americas, and for that and similar scoops we’ve enjoyed being linked to by CNN for a long time. I would be in error to say they have been very interested in LENR, but now with the high-stakes lawsuits and the (pending) report, I think we can swing some major coverage from them. Any ideas for an angle?

  • psi2u2

    ” when nobody could reproduce the results.”

    There were successful replications from very early on. The fact of even one successful reproduction should have given the orthodoxists pause to reconsider their assumptions. Instead greed, ego, and clinging to old models prevailed.

    “And that whole electric mass transit conspiracy has always been nonsense. ”

    No, it was proven by Barry Commoner in the pages of the New Yorker. Your answer makes it clear that you do not even know what I am talking about, which is the destruction of the already existing, fully functional electric rail systems in most cities of north america. The technology was perfectly ready. It was in operation. Stop proclaiming about topics you don’t know anything about. I am through with this conversation. Good luck.

  • Karl Venter

    Most of us thought the independent evaluator (ERV)would be somebody like SGS TUV etc and that once and for all this would be put to bed it real and works.
    And now we have nothing but rossi says – definately a major flaw by both parties not to have a completely independent evaluator.
    Lugano hailed – but turned out iffy
    One year 1Mw hailed but turned out iffy
    EcatX hailed but turned out …………………

  • cashmemorz

    I remember when my cities public transit system was changed to diesel power just at the time when electricity was cheapest. There was a write up by proponents of electric powered vehicles of how this occurred. The explanation of this was that the manufacturers of diesel powered busses were influenced by the oil companies to bid lower than the electrical powered vehicle manufacturers could

    • Cuthbert Allgood

      Well, first of all, have one technology outbid another technology has nothing to do with secret conspiracies to suppress new world-changing technology, which is the subject of the discussion.

      Second, having one company outbid another company and going lower than they can go… er… that’s competition, working as intended. Am I supposed to cry that the city got a better deal because you like one technology over the other? That’s the whole point of competition, applying lower price pressure. If your argument is that the city lost money long-term for whatever reason, then that’s on the city’s financial analysts. There’s no conspiracy here.

      • cashmemorz

        Did you get the part that the oil companies were in on the influence to get the bus manufacturers to bid lower?

        • Ted-Z

          Discussing about the reality (true or false) of the conspiracy theories IS DERAILING this discussion list and filling it with garbage.
          THE MODERATOR should limit this type of OFF TOPIC attempts to resurrect the dead ideas, which are now AT THE STAGE OF ZOMBIES. It looks like the long-debunked statements are being brought back, from an old and rarely updated script.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    A replication would be great but on the other hand, this is the thanks John Bockris got for his DoE funded replication of F&P’s experiment
    in 1989. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41uhl8x00LL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgV7fNO-2k 13:20 min.

    • Obvious

      Get Gary to sign it before it’s too late.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Always loved this scene from sneakers – it talks about money corrupting people:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coDtzN6bXAM

  • HS61AF91

    Maybe a speaker broadcasting sound above 25kHz?

  • psi2u2

    To pick only the most obvious and immediate example, it has happened by many accounts in the case of Cold Fusion. Pons and Fleischmann discovered the phenomenon in 1989 and were howled down by hot fusion physicists, thereby delaying by several decades the practical application of the science.

    Another example is given by Barry Commoner, in his analysis of how the auto and oil industries put electric mass transit out of operation in many major US cities because they saw it as competition and threat to their bottom lines.

    “Any suppressed technology will eventually be rediscovered, over and over. ”

    Perhaps so, but that does not say anything about how long suppression can be effective. It is only common sense that when large economic interests are threatened, they will fight to delay or even bury the adoption of a new technology.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

    Your assertion depends on an obvious logical fallacy. If a technology has been suppressed, then we will either have no knowledge of it or a false account will be in place. That’s the point of suppression, so issuing a challenge to ‘prove it happened’ is a fairly safe bet (as of course you will know).

    In this case suppression isn’t an option – too many people are involved. However that doesn’t mean that no attempt will be made to seriously delay its introduction for the obvious reason that time is needed by existing stakeholders to divest their interests in obsolescent assets. This topic has been covered many times by contributors who are far more expert in this area than myself.

  • LCD

    I think it’s clear now that public tests have zero impact.

    But I agree with you that while the Rossi effect may be real I have yet to see evidence that it can be tamed by him.

    As much as I would like to get a crack at finding the theory behind the effect (through proper research) Rossi deserves time to do it himself.

    But the ethics of this are difficult because the importance to society is so great that there should almost be a new rule that both allows Rossi to cash in while openly sharing his immature method ( hint it’s not a patent).

    From where Rossi supposedly is now to product SHOULD NOT take long, but nobody has the confidence it will be quick.

    I agree Rossi is fighting independent testers, but to date no one has a repeatable method for LENR+.