Rossi: 1MW Plant Customer Bought Three More Plants (AR: Installation in Approx 180 Days)

Bernie Koppenhofer commented to Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics that did not understand why Rossi could not persuade the customer of E-Cat plant used in the year-long test to come forward and report on the savings they had made from using the E-Cat.

Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi
April 14, 2016 at 1:44 PM
Bernie Koppenhofer:
You are too intelligent not to understand that a company cannot be happy of all the blogosphere hurricane around this issue. Our Customer spoke his satisfaction with facts, not words: he bought 3 units like the one he tested during this year with a company set up specifically for this purpose.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi has not identified the Customer behind the company created for the test — JM Chemical Products, Inc. The License Agreement between Leonardo Corp just mentions that JMC is “owned by an entity formed in the United Kingdom”, so I assume that thsi the customer who Rossi has said has bought three more plants.

Rossi mentioned that there were many problems to deal with during the 1-year test, so I would assume that the new plants will have been redesigned based on what was learned during the test.

The UK is outside of the licensing area covered by the contract with Industrial Heat, so there may be no legal issues connected with the current lawsuit that Rossi has filed against IH to interfere with this sale. Of course, this is all unconfirmed at the moment — it will be interesting to see if we can get some external confirmation of Rossi’s statement.

UPDATE (Apr 15, 2016):

Andrea Rossi was asked on the JONP by Renzo how long it would take to build ship and install the plant; he replied “I forsee 180 working days”. He also answered a similar question from Patrick Ellul:

Patrick Ellul:
See the answer to Renzo, adding that times cannot be precise, since our manufacturing structure is not yet experienced and we still do not have a final production line.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Fibber McGourlick

    I think it’s impossible for a commercial company to have a transformative device operating successfully on their premises providing heat for an industrial purpose at an industrial level for a year without anyone finding out about it and leaking the story to the press (and disclosing the name of the company doing it). We’re talking about a device that would transform the world–in fact save the world with cheap, pollution-free energy. Yet no one in that company has revealed what happened during the year of operation and what is planned to happen in the near future. No leaks? None at all? For something like this? Give me a break. Something is wrong.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      there is leak but controlled, like the one reported by Mats.
      none from a “civilian” who says his boss is crazy having an LENR reactor near his office.

      this can happen if there is no “civilian”, ie if all participant are LENR aware and warned not to leak.

      This supports either a really secret heating source in the factory, with only LC team and few bosses aware…
      or if the company is fake
      or if the reactor is an hollywood stage…

      some says that whatever they say, finding a company that accept to run this nuclear reactor without a license, a certification, is improbable, and the the certification is improbable too, since US gov is aware of what is happening. (It is I know).

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Good reply. Thanks.

      • Observer

        And what regulatory agency has authority? No radioactive elements going in, no radioactive elements going out, no external radiation.

        The major regulatory hurdles are do to with the fact it is a boiler.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          right, and no certification getting in or out either.
          see no cert, hear no cert, say no cert…

          I know it is crazy, but it is mainstream.

          you won’t nee a cert, but will not have any cert.
          and industrialist will ask for one, even just a dummy one.

          • Omega Z

            People tend to get all uptight about certifications and such.

            This is primarily an issue when something is a general consumer product left in an unattended state with no expert personnel present to monitor it. Possibly in a home full of children.

            Industrial use is quite different. If no radioactive materials are used or produced, a basic safety certificate will suffice. Even should radiated emissions be present. it’s not a problem as long as shielded.

            Surprisingly to most, there are many business that use products that even use radioactive materials everyday. It’s quite common among fossil energy concerns. And at the end of the day, these devices may only be locked up in a tool box in the back of a truck.

            Industry has something the consumer doesn’t. Trained personnel available should there be a problem. In Fact, I’ll bet I could probably build a Nuclear Power plant within just a couple miles of a city should I have the properly trained personnel on hand. 🙂

            As to boilers and heat exchangers. This is all old stuff that is pretty much set in stone. The only real issue here is having an inspector come in to see that everything was properly setup and properly connected. A good pipe fitter is well versed in this. It’s a minor formality.

  • Pweet

    I ordered two. Why not? He wasn’t asking for any money up front so it didn’t cost me anything, and at the time I thought there was a reasonable chance it was all true.
    I gave up the next year and bought a reverse cycle aircon plus a wood fire heater for winter.
    It was a good choice otherwise I would still be here freezing my nuts off in winter time.

  • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

    Build the one and ship, 80 days.
    Build next one and ship,60 days.
    Build next one and ship 40 days.
    On site team install as each unit arrives.

    • Omega Z

      I’m curious about the container size. Rossi’s pilot plant contained 52 20KW reactor setup.

      In addition was the 4-250KW reactors that were actually used.
      A 20 foot container could easily hold 5 or 6 of these 1 megawatt(4-250KW reactors) systems as each is fairly small..

  • SteveA

    Assuming the design is complete he probably has a ~3 month procurement period to get all the parts in house. After that it would be build, test and ship. The procurement is almost always the longest and is usually quite difficult to shorten significantly. I would assume he would want to run several weeks of testing to understand the variability on a new product. That could conceivably be done at the customer.

  • LCD

    He’s talking about the first three. That’s normal. At this point you can’t impregnate three women and have 1 baby in 3 months. Just don’t work that way.

  • Josh G

    They also have to ship, install and get up and running in that time…

  • Josh G

    I imagine it will take 1/3 to 1/2 of the time to ship and install and get up and running . . .

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Agaricus

    A potential customer possibly – if there was a product to buy.

    Certainly not a potential investor.

  • psi2u2

    Agreed.

  • Omega Z

    It takes time to train people. Possibly it could take more then 180 days because training slows the current trained personnel on the current task.

  • Mike Rion

    true

  • Mike Rion

    There may be other limiting factors that we can know nothing about.

  • cashmemorz

    You will not be answered if you start asking pointed questions. You will get a run around. That is how businesses handle delicate matters. Even if you know some one inside the business. It would have to be deep inside close to the top management or principles. At that point you would be an insider and would be careful as well.

  • cashmemorz

    In actual world, as it is terms, its not possible since not ALL desire this, in particular those who control the money=power. VERY hard to get around this obstacle. To do anything worthwhile in such an environment, money is required to get anything done. By the time one gets enough money the goal tends to shift from the ideal goal to the money itself.

    • g

      History is creation. There *are* ways to get around this obstacle. Noone says it is an easy task. But it is doable.

  • wpj

    He said that that there are 30000 parts, so it could rake a while.

  • psi2u2

    Hopefully during that 180 days we will have other relevant news.

  • psi2u2

    Fair enough. You get stars for rational skepticism. 😉

  • Gerrit

    Yes, once upon a time the line “Rossi says” became old. Then IH entered the scene and there was much rejoicing.

    Now we went even further back than the “Rossi says” era. We have nothing, currently. This could change when the customer reveals himself, but that won’t happen anytime soon and might not happen at all.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Alex, the plant under test was modified in a fairly short time from the older plant to the newer 4X250KW plant. If in fact all of the electrical and mechanical drawings are up to date, 6 months is penty of time to make 3 units. As an example, during the Y2K events, sales of portable generators jumped 4 fold in less than a year. See Chart 2 here:

    https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/102941/ecportgen.pdf

    • Jarea

      I would say 9 months. He said “working” days

      • Mike Rion

        This is all just idle speculation.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          No, Mike — this is “active” speculation. My opinion is based on 40 years as an engineer. Given that the plant has been demonstrated (that is still subject to confirmation), one can assume that the plans are done. Replicating a device is straightforward.

          I have followed the developments of Rossi’s devices for years. I have contended, based on pictures and descriptions, that any of my technical students could replicate the devices in a semester. However, the “fuel” might be a bit difficult for them.

          Do you doubt that the plant can be replicated in 6 months?

          • Mike Rion

            No, I don’t, provided the bugs have been adequately worked out. I have a little experience with working the bugs out of complicated machinery and it can be a bit tedious even when perfectly replicated. I’ve been following this more or less since 1989 and never doubted it could, and did, work as early as F and P in Utah. It’s too bad it was pushed underground for so long by the pompous naysayer’s or we might already have been using it for 20 years or more. Some times science is its own worse enemy it seems.

            • Thomas Kaminski

              I agree with the “bugs worked out” issue. I suspect that the number of hours Rossi spent in the shipping container was in part trying to “tune” the control algorithms. For a complex, non-linear system (as LENR seems to be) without a good system model, control is very difficult. Still, he seems to have tamed the beast. Systems will always have bugs — hopefully they will be minor and not lead to major failures.

              I once managed a complex system development with a large number of hardware and software components. Hardware engineers always were more cognizant of deadlines and getting the design ready for production. If I let them (I did not), software engineers would be changing code up to the the minute it was shipped.

  • Gerrit

    Nobody (but Rossi and very likely IH) knows who the entity from the UK is. Or am I missing something. Do you know who the entity is ?