Andrea Rossi Responds to IH Statement (Updated)

Andrea Rossi has posted this comment on the Journal of Nuclear Physics in response to the statement by Industrial Heat today.

Dear Janne:
I have to comment the press release of IH, being a press release and not a forensic act.
They made the Lugano reactor ( they also signed it ) they made many replications of which we have due record and witnesses, they made multiple patent applications ( without my authotization ) with their chief engineer as the co-inventor ( he invented nothing ) , with detailed description of the replications , they made replications with the attendance of Woodford, after which they got 50 or 60 millions of dollars from Woodfords’ investors, they made replications with the attendance of Chinese top level officers, after which they started thanks to the E-Cat they made an R&D activity in China in a 200 millions concern, they made replications with an E-Cat completely made by them under my direction the very day in which the 1 MW plant has been delivered in Raleigh, they made replications that we have recorded. After the replication they made with the attendance of Woodford in 2013 Mr Tom Darden said publicly: ” this replication has been stellar” ( witnesses available). But this is not the place to discuss this. We have prepared 18 volumes to explain exactly and in detail the activity of our “Licensee” and his acquaintances from 2013 to now. Until they had to collect money thanks to the E-Cat, they made replications and have been happy with the E-Cat; when it turned to have to pay, they discovered that they never made replications, that the ERV that they had chosen with us was not good, that the test on the 1 MW plant, thanks to which they collected enormous amounts of money from the investors and where I put at risk my health working 16-18 hours per day was not a good test ( but for all the year of the test they NEVER said a single word of complaint, even if they had constantly their men in the plant, etc etc. But the worse has still to come out. The worse is in the 18 volumes we will present in due time, in due place. A blog is not the right place to discuss a litigation. This is only a quick answer to the press release made by IH.
Ad majora.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Things are getting quite intense now in this dispute, I hope we on ECW can refrain from getting too heated up in the comments section. Let’s keep things respectful, even though emotions can run high in this kind of situation.

UPDATE: This is a question that Hank Mills posted in connection with the above statement, and Rossi’s response.

Dear Andrea,

When you state that IH has made successful replications, did they themselves prepare and process the fuel material to be used in the reactors — including catalyzers — according to IP provided to them, or did they simply use fuel pre-prepared by Leonardo Corporation?

Andrea Rossi
April 7, 2016 at 8:32 PM
Hank Mills:
They prepared everything, the charges, the body of the reactor EVERYTHING !!!.
I just teached to them what to do.
They never used anything pre-prepared by Leonardo Corp.
Now, let me talk to you of a very singular coincidence: Brillouin has always made only electrolytic apparatuses: go to read all their patent applications made before their agreement with IH, and you will find confirmation of what I am saying ( I know their patents by heart, because I have studied them and probably I know them better than themselves : I wrote about 100 pages of notes about their patents ). And now the singular coincidence: they make the agreement with IH in April 2015, and Voilà, they made a public demo in Capitol Hill ( Washington, DC) with a device that is the Copy-Cat of something I am familiar with. Nothing that Brillouin has ever made before the agreement with IH. What a coincidence !!!
Warm Regards,
A.R.

One more comment from AR:

Andrea Rossi
Andrea Rossi
April 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM
Hank Mills:
In the press release of IH they write that ” for three years they tried to replicate the Rossi effect, with no avail”: very good, but during those three years Industrial Heat collected about 60 million dollars from Woodford, more millions from other sources, exclusively based on my E-Cats technology. This before making shopping to buy other patents. Now, the cases are two: either they are lying when they say they didn’t replicate, or they made a fraud collecting 60 millions from Woodford, more from others, not to mention Cherokee fund. You had to see Tom Darden and JT Vaughn dance like ballet etoiles around the investors, showing them the E-Cats, and telling them that the E-Cats had been built by them! “Stellar” coherently Darden, in his role of etoile, repeated to the enchanted attandees, ready to spend 50 millions. Now, that my bill arrived, the E-Cat had not been replicated , they say. For three years.
Again, I am just answering to a press release of IH.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • wpj

    Not quite; the testing of the MW plant was supposed to start within 120 days with IH finding the customer and obtaining necessary permits.

    This did not happen and the contract was amended to reflect this; IH had every opportunity to have a verified operation at their place of choosing, but now everyone is accusing AR of fraud as he had to sort out some sort of operation to conduct the test.

    I’m not defending AR, because there are probably some other things going on which we do not know about, but the revealing court documents need to be genuine otherwise it is perjury.

  • Warthog

    And your evidence for this is??????

    • Jarea
      • Warthog

        There is not one word even implying that Godes/Brillouin are “working with Rossi IP”. All this says is that “Brillouin and Lenuco continue to work….”, which is perfectly true….both companies have their own IP approaches and are working to bring them to fruition.

        • wpj

          If you look at their website they claim to be using the same apparatus as before but at high temperature.

          • Warthog

            Not exactly. They have TWO systems, one “wet”, and one “dry”. The “wet” system is essentially a Pons and Fleischmann electrolysis unit engineered to operate at higher pressures (and thus higher temperatures) than the original P&F units. The “dry” system contains no water (or D2O), but uses gaseous hydrogen (or deuterium) on a nanostructured solid “carrier”. The “dry” system operates at 500-700 Celsius (which is less than Rossi uses).

            All that said, “if” IH has licensed their “Q-pulse” technology, and chosen to pair that with Rossi’s solid-phase fuel which they have also licensed, and gotten better controllability than Rossi, it is absolutely legitimate for them to do so. IH will still have to pay Rossi a licensing fee, and royalties, but these will be much less than if they used an “all-Rossi” design.

            • wpj

              Yes, I should have said non-electrolytic and dry; it’s really difficult to say much more from their description.

              • Warthog

                Frankly, I think Rossi will be left out in the cold…not because he doesn’t have something that works, but that what he has is very primitive, and will be quickly supplanted by superior technology. To take a SWAG at it, I would venture that a combination of Brillouin’s “Q-pulse” and Lenuco’s nanostructured zirconium oxide/metal “NAE” particles is a likely candidate. I am sure that there will be many (and mean) patent wars before all is done.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Pretty good assessment as far as I know. However it depends on the municipality on how hard it is to be inspected by a licensed professional and retain permits. The rules differ drastically from municipality to municipality sometimes. Some things have universal rules, but not many. Rossi could have chosen a place with very lax licensing. That can be checked rather easily by someone with experience. Why IH didn’t provide the test site as contracted to do is incredible to me. It is like they wanted Rossi to do it, to create lack of credibility.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Yea, I agree with a lot of that statement man, Reasonable hypothesis.

  • Frank Acland

    That’s at Rossi’s facility in Ferrara, Italy — date was around April 30-May 1, 2013

  • HiggsField

    I think we have reach the point now where one can safely say to Rossi it’s time to put up or shut up!

    “Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success.”

    Darden Et al have strong reputations, Rossi does not. Who do you belief? After all they extended a helping hand to Rossi to the tune of $11.5M, that ‘s not chump change, it’s serious money.

    Does anyone really believe there has been a truly independent evaluation of Rossi’s technology? One where his hand is a million miles away from the device. There really hasn’t. Finding out that he was the supposed customer for the 1 year test was the last straw for me. From what I can deduce Darden believes in a rigorous scientific approach, Rossi is a suck it and see guy. By contrast Brillouin Energy is a great fit for IH. This whole enterprise reminds me of the QEG, only several magnitudes higher in money and time spent. With all this said I’ve no doubt that the fan club here will remain strong for Rossi, at least for a while at least. Got my coffin, nail and hammer ready.

    • Frank Acland

      I think it’s clear that Industrial Heat/Cherokee did not turn over $11.5 million based on nothing. They were satisified with the due diligence process they went through with the E-Cat.

      In their January 2014 press release they stated that “performance validation tests were conducted in the presence of IH personnel and certified by an independent expert.” This photo is from the testing that took place — I think we can see JT Vaughn and Tom Darden there: http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IHEcattest.jpg
      The contract in the court documents states that regarding this testing:

      Unit A Performance Requirements
      Unit A will be required to consistently produce energy that is at least six times greater than the energy it consumes (that is coefficient of performance “COP” of six or greater) and steam that is 100 degrees of Celcius or greater during a 24 hour test period . . .

      The ERV will measure the flow of the heated fluid and the Delta T between the temperature of the fluid before and after the E-Cat reaction. The energy absorbed by the unit will be determined by measuring the electricity consumed. From these measurements, the ERV will determine the COP of the unit. At the conclusion of the test, the ERV will produce a final report showing the results.” http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/01-3.pdf

      IH must have been satisfied with these results because they paid the part of the license fee that was dependent upon the satisfactory performance of this report, which was $10 million according to the license agreement here: http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/01-2.pdf (p. 4)

      • Michael W Wolf

        In their public statement they have contradicted this.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Strong reputations? The SEC just ruled against Saint Darden and Cherokee. IH has made major contradictions in their statements/patents. IH has kept 60 million dollars of their investors’ on false pretense. Rossi under oath formally accused IH for breach of contract. Until a ruling in court, IH is the dishonest broker here. You had better scratch off Rossi’s name on that coffin and replace it with Darden’s.

    • http://www.freerepublic.com/~jim/ _Jim

      HiggsField : “I think we have reach the point now where one can safely say to Rossi it’s time to put up or shut up!”

      Can we say the same to you about your solid evidence supporting your assertion? No? I didn’t think so …

      There is SO MUCH wiggle room in that IH press release that there is daylight showing through the cracks …

  • Warthog

    Sorry, no. The only sense that Godes has “been antagonistic” is because they are competing with technologies. I know of no instance where Godes has ever “bad-mouthed” Rossi.

    There is zero evidence that “Godes has Rossi IP”.

    All that we know is that IH has licensed technology from Godes and they are working together on it.

    “IF” IH was wise enough to license Rossi’s tech and Godes’ tech, and combines them in a way such that it yields a better controlled product, then IH deserves the credit for doing so. “If” the USPTO decides that said combination was “unique and non-obvious”, then IH can and will get a patent on it.

    Godes offered Rossi the same opportunity and Rossi refused it. It will simply be a case where Rossi shot himself in the foot, and his bad.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Or Godes has an axe to grind.

      • Warthog

        Sorry, but there is no evidence of such in Godes public statements, which is all we have to go by. Of course, he wants his tech to “make it” in the market, but so does any inventor.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Godes is in bed with IH, IH is obviously pushing Rossi out. Evidence. Godes was turned down by Rossi when godes asked for him to share his secrets. Evidence. Godes seems to be after what Rossi has and following Rossi around. Axe to grind. May not be so, but completely plausible.

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            Rossi imagien he van win alone.
            godes believes he have an approach better on some points (control) and think that mixing competences may create something better for the good of all.

            rossi think he can play alone.

            this is why he does not respect the agreement with IH and thing that the normal behavior of someone collaborating, is “stealing”.

            I’m tired of tha medievel way of mind.

            you cannot success alone, point.

            patents don’t work, only running faster in a wolfpack can make you win.

            • Michael W Wolf

              signing with IH wasn’t playing alone. Maybe he smelled a rat when IH failed to provide a test facility as contracted?

          • Warthog

            No, not plausible at all. Having IH license his technology is not “being in bed with”, which is an implication of either illegality or conspiracy. There are plenty of solid-phase approaches out there other than Rossi’s which Godes was perfectly free to use.

            ALL we know is that IH has licensed Godes tech (as well as others)….there is NO indication other than pure “pulled out of the air (or a**)” speculation of anything else.

            • Michael W Wolf

              Yea, I was implying IH breaching the contract by sharing Rossi IP with godes, hence in bed. Yea it is speculation. It all depends on who you believe. What if godes and IH planned this all along to get their hands on Rossi IP? It would explain why IH didn’t seem to do anything after they gained Rossi’s IP, like finding a test facility.

              • Warthog

                IH “sharing Rossi IP” with Brillouin does NOT in any way breach the contract. Since Rossi has licensed both the Rossi IP and some (as yet unknown exactly what) Brillouin IP, it is perfectly legitimate for IH to “put the two together” on a research basis, and, if it works better than the “pure Rossi approach”, for IH to patent the combination in their own name. None of this is illegal, immoral, unethical, or fattening. This sort of thing goes on all the time in the “IP/research” biz.

                IH will still owe Rossi some level of compensation in order to put the postulated combined device on the market.

                This is especially true since Rossi was offered the Brillouin IP, and turned it down. And I don’t think there are sufficient facts available to say “when who did what”. This will all be established in court.

                • Frank Acland

                  Interesting point — but what if the Rossi IP was used in connection with Brillouin IP outside the contracted IH geographic territory?

                • Warthog

                  ‘Fraid that gets into a level of “fine detail” of patent/licensing law that is “above my pay grade”.

                  I “think” that if IH was able to obtain a patent on the technology combination, that IH would owe royalties to Rossi whether inside or outside the geographic territory.

                  Working all this out would be part of the court case(s).

  • Lux Terrea

    I just read these responses as I have been popping in regularly since 2011 watching things. But this…! There was never a real production facility “plant” associated with the now notorious one year test? Rossi created a fake company to prove his device worked? You have got to be fucking kidding me!

    And anyone here still believes anything this fraud has to say? People have been following this for years and this is where we are? Entire websites have been created to follow this whole story. This website alone has been a major player in stoking what appears to be at this point to have been irrational exuberance (at best) on all of our parts for the last 5 years. Where is the device? Where is the ERV? Did rossi create the “3rd party” that created the ERV? Pardon my profanity, my fellow irrationalists, but WTF?!?!

    • Michael W Wolf

      IH was contracted to find a test site and did not do so for a year. You calling Rossi a fraud is slanderous. IH put it off and allowed him to do it. Signed off on it, and had their people there, saying it worked great. It is in the contract for IH to provide it. That is a breach of contract and Rossi accepted the breach and took it upon himself to find the test site, letting IH off the hook for breaching the contract. Calling someone a fraud and not knowing all the extenuating circumstances is irrational. Why don’t you let the jury decide? They will be the ones with all the facts at hand. Don’t you think that would be RATIONAL? Pardon my outrage of complete hypocrisy.

      • Lux Terrea

        You claiming facts where there are none and blindly following along is hypocritical. My only crime here was questioning your hero.

  • HiggsField

    Thanks. So no foul then? Rossi managed the test on behalf on the UK customer. IH seemed OK with this at the time. Made only hot water not steam. A lot of hot water, I wonder where it went? It could not have been to good in the local environment. Must have been clouds a steam issuing from the building and the drains, assuming the plant ran continuously. Do they pay for tap water in Florida?

    • wpj

      Look at the pictures of the plant! There is a return pipe for water/steam that has been used to return to the unit and, thus, less power is required to re-heat. This is standard practice………………………

    • http://www.freerepublic.com/~jim/ _Jim

      So many questions and such an effort to impugn someone’s rep (reputation)..

  • Bob Greenyer

    New Stream

    All the H2 was adsorbed or used to reduce in part 2

    In part 3, we will be cooling and adding a fresh load to 1 bar and re-heating to 20 W (Over 140ºC in core)

    http://youtu.be/uEV_HYb0PG8

    • Jarea

      Rossi should be interested on the replication of his patent by MFMP. It would be good that Rossi help MFMP to reproduce the same COP he has achieved. This will gain a lot of credibility to sell his product.
      I think Rossi want to wait until the massive lauch of his hotcats, however a lot can happen in between, and maybe he will not be able to do that. I have a bad feeling about who will win the big battle with the big powers. You can´t win against a government which deciced to delay LENR. You can´t. I would like that Rossi think on protecting his legacy before this big war against the big powers is lost. He has the patent, let speed up the coming of the LENR era.

      • Bob Greenyer

        If he has more to share, and he has it covered by patent, he should put it out into the public domain whilst this research is going on. The current runs may be the only chance for him to point to High COP before IH submit their side of the story.

        Having said that – if we see ‘Signal’ / coincident signs of excess heat again LIVE – for the MFMP and LENR it will be a very important moment.

        No guarantees – but we are doing our best.

  • wpj

    Yes, a lot.

    Read

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/08/rossi-provides-explanation-about-1mw-plant-customer/

    All explained in there and Rossi had to get the client/permissions at IH did nothing about the 1 year test

  • Private Citizen

    If the tech is real, we all want to see it produced and available ASAP, whether by Rossi or IH.

    Assuming Rossi has the goods, can IH get an injunction preventing him from revealing the IP or manufacturing products in the near term?

    We move from blind scientific speculation to legal arcana on ECW.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I put getting the tech commercialized over Rossi retaining his IP. I think if IH had a strong case, they would have already have taken formal action though. After all, they give him 11.5 million. You would think they would have wanted it back sooner rather than later.

      • Brent Buckner

        I’m not sure how much of that 11.5million IH would have thought recoverable, nor how they’d assess any brand damage from instituting a suit against an investee.

        My top guess is that IH wanted full transfer of knowledge that they didn’t believe they had yet received, and withholding payment (perhaps after or simultaneous with a request for delivery of IP such as copies of all of Rossi’s lab books and notes) was their preferred attempt to pry it out.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Yea. you could be right Brent. A lot of credible people here are saying about the same thing.

  • DrD

    “What do they really have to gain”
    Maybe they believe they can still win and steal his IP OR maybe there’s other parties involved, who’re paying to delay the onset of the end to the fossil fuel era.
    The latter is a frightful thought.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    He is not the only IH partner to defend IH.
    and this is not more than a researcher, researching, with nothing to gain by supporting a bad sponsor.

    LENr have so great impact on economy that every single inventor may irrationally think he can be next Rockefeller. Sorry, it does not work.

    one have to work with partners, share some trust, use and share IP.

    to protect your work as LENR inventor you need not one patent but a pool of patents.

    if researchers work well, there would be dozens of people owning part of the IP inside an LENR device.

    most people refuse to share and pay, and the result is they stay either locke with their own patent, or locked out of others patents, and cannot innovate fast enough.

    this is the big interest of ecosystem, wher people agree to give (paid) access to their patent, in exchange of a paid access to others patents.
    money is not a problem, only “lock-out”.

    let it be clear. Rossi should sahre his know how with Brillouin, who shoud share his own, and they would build two slightly different reactors, addressing different problems, integrating both their IP…
    and so one with the others working in IH.
    and the researshers owning no IP, should have access to Rossi and Brillouin IP (agais fees), so they can develop something new, that Brillouin and Rossi could exploit (after paiement).

    this way the guys in IH would go faster, and rossi will quickly have access to a dozen of technologies… he would be the king of a sector of the market, with a dozen of others kings…
    but maybe he just wnat to be the only king in the block.

    sharing economy is the good model.
    you pay for everything, but you can use everything.
    you can achieve your own happiness, but cannot prevent others to.

    • Warthog

      Godes long ago offered to partner with Rossi, much before any connection between Rossi and IH developed. This was along about the time of the third Rossi demo, as I recall. Godes unequivocally said that he thought that Rossi definitely had something, but that he (Rossi) was having controllabilty problems, which Godes claimed to have solved. He was turned down. EVERYTHING I have seen since that time has borne Godes out wrt Rossi’s reactor control problems.

  • DrD

    Amongst others, I think the customers electricity account might just help a little.

  • psi2u2

    You are completely wrong in your belief that IH has no other activity; it has been obvious for some weeks now that they have purchased other LENR IP and worked with others, notably Robert Godes, in the LENR field.

  • wpj

    He did not sell them, he licensed them. Completely different, though IH seems to believe differently.