Andrea Rossi Goes to Court: What Happens to the E-Cat Now?

We’ve had months of prognostication now about how and when the results of Andrea Rossi’s 1MW E-Cat test might get released, but I don’t think anyone predicted that the news would come in a press release announcing a court case.

For years now people have been speculating about the relationship between Andrea Rossi/Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat — trying to understand the legal and working relationship between the two entities. The court documents connected with the legal action taken by Rossi against Industrial Heat have given us much more information than we have ever known. I certainly never expected to be able to know so much about the inner details of the relationship, except maybe far into the future when a history of this affair was written.

Someone asked me yesterday for an analysis of the situation. Honestly I don’t know if I can add anything new to the hundreds of comments that have been posted since yesterday afternoon. There is much speculation about motives and behind-the-scenes maneuvering, but personally I am still trying to digest this highly unexpected situation.

To me the most important question in all of this is what happens to the E-Cat now? The reason I have been following this story for so long is not because of the personalities or business dealings involved — it’s because we are dealing with a technology that has the potential to benefit the world in a profound way.

At the heart of the story is still Andrea Rossi and his invention. Rossi’s complaint revealed yesterday makes extraordinary claims about what the E-Cat can do. To me, the key phrase from the document is “By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period.”

Taken at face value, this means that the overall COP obtained during the test was over 50 — which is on the high end of what many people were expecting. If this is accurate then Rossi’s invention is really doing the impossible, and it is one of the most significant inventions in human history, with the potential to alleviate so many of our energy-related problems.

But we are still at the pre-production, R&D stage. To be useful to the human race, the E-Cat must be released into the real world to do real work. What are its prospects now?

I have no doubt about the determination and commitment of Andrea Rossi to bring his product to market. But determination alone can’t do it. He needs funding to make it happen, and the reason he entered into a relationship with Industrial Heat was to obtain that funding, and the lawsuit filed by Rossi maintains that the agreed-upon payment was not delivered, and without those funds perhaps the goal of mass production of the E-Cat that Rossi has been striving towards is now in jeopardy.

Of course we’ll have to wait and see how things develop in the legal arena, but time, money and energy are now going to be tied up in legal proceedings. A technology that many had hoped would be introduced with a news conference, a big media campaign, news stories, and all-round celebrations is making its appearance on the world stage in a very different way. Will the E-Cat survive this birth trauma?

  • Mike Ivanov

    For me the fact what LENR reaction is real, not scam or fake, makes HUGE difference. It means what it is on matter of time to make commercial device. I also means what mainstream physics have huge problem, since they wast billions on hot fusion device and none of them have COP>1, comparing to several hot cat experiments.

  • Mike Ivanov

    How about Parchomov and several other tests where excess heat has been detected?

    • Dave

      Claiming *some* excess heat isn’t the same as what Rossi is claiming. Rossi has said he has been able to get consistent, stable, and useful energy from his E-Cat for years. That’s far, far beyond anything anyone else working with LENR is claiming.

      • Mike Ivanov

        If you remember the first AR public show, every skeptic said what such reaction is impossible in principle, and Rossi is a fraudster.

  • Michael W Wolf

    It would explain why Rossi kept telling us ecat was NOT obsolete. I couldn’t undertstand for the life of me what good ecat was if you have ecatx. IH feels the same way I guess. But now we know why Rossi kept saying ecat was still viable, he had to in his mind. But I don’t know why he figured IH wouldn’t realize this if he didn’t say it. Maybe legally it will be important.

  • http://magicmusicandmore.com/ Barry

    This sounds exactly what Edison and Tesla went through that created their big divide. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZInLPe_bezQ (starting at the 1:03 mark)

  • Ged

    He was acquitted of everything except “income tax evasion” on his company that was bankrupt (which honestly makes no sense, but Italy may not have the same bankruptcy protection laws as the US).

  • Omega Z

    If they shared Rossi’s IP with a competitor, they should hope I’m not on the jury. I would award Ross 10x damages and null void the license rights of Industrial heat.

  • Omega Z

    bachcole
    They already paid Rossi $10 million for a previous positive test.
    To claim zero positive outcome now?

  • Omega Z

    It would appear Industrial Heat has some serious explaining to do.

    To refute Rossi with this press release will draw the ire of Woodford investments and others as they told Woodford and others that they(Industrial heat) had Rossi’s IP and could totally replicate the E-cat and it’s performance. Thus obtaining investments.

    Claims made by Industrial heat
    1) Claim they Can’t replicate Rossi’s work
    2) Claim to Woodford and others they Can replicate Rossi’s work

    Industrial heat has committed Fraud either in the 1st claim or the 2nd claim. They can’t both be true.

  • Ged

    Rossi was acquitted in all cases except income tax evasion caused by the bankruptcy of his Petroldragon company, by the way; so he was ultimately found innocent. He was not convicted of fraud or environmental crimes. So, your “reputable sources” are bunk it seems.

  • Omega Z

    Note your link has an extra bracket at the end and doesn’t work unless it is removed.

    As To WHY->

    “Why did Rossi choose Fabio Penon for the one-year test? The same person already in 2012 made a positive evaluation (your link) and cannot be regarded as a truly independent reviewer”

    Answer,

    THIS positive evaluation done in 2012 was for Darden & Vaughn in the 1st test. This test included 2 sets of 30 E-cats and the Hot cat. He was also approved by Rossi and Industrial heat. Not by Rossi alone…

  • Omega Z

    This is DGT all over again.
    (5) IH was unable to raise the money.

    It’s been Noted that Cherokee has $2 Billion in assets, but assets are not money.
    Also, Those assets are primarily Brown Fields. Easy to tie up large sums of money, but very hard to get back in return. A Few years ago, Darden couldn’t come up with “$20 million” to complete a deal and was bailed out by Donald Trump.

  • Omega Z

    From “NUMEROUS REPUTABLE SOURCES”

    Name those reputable sources and “New Energy Times” and “Wikipedia” don’t count as neither are reputable in this situation.

  • Omega Z

    According to the agreement, Industrial heat would have ongoing technology improvement rights. i.e., Hot-cat, E-cat X, E-cat Quark etc, etc,,,.

  • Karl Venter

    So what are the senarios

    Rossi wins – he gets 89m but also now IH is in bed with him ( great start to a partnership)
    Rossi Loses – he does not get 89m – He is out of bed with IH and am sure he will get somebody to give him more – and IH obviously still dont have the IP as they say so they cant copy it – If they copy it then they obviously did have the IP

    Is it not better for Rossi to lose?

  • DrD

    It certainly reads like pre-meditated fraud. How many years could he get.

  • timycelyn

    From what has been left in, I would say Frank was leaning over backwards to give you as much leeway as seemed fair. Quite a few people on the group took time to try and bring you up to date with a lot of the background, complete with the necessary health warnings.

    So I’m sorry to say that the moderation seems entirely appropriate. If you want a stimulating discussion with open minded individuals who perhaps take an ever so slightly darker view of these gongs – on, please feel free to migrate to E- cat News.

    A bastion of balanced and open – minded debate.

    […. And I’m the Archbishop of Canterbury…]

  • HS61AF91

    You, sir, appear to be a paid for agitator. As your musings purport innocent wonder, the credibility of your incredulity diminishes. Stick around awhile, and see if you can smell the roses.

  • HS61AF91

    Here’s a look at the negative, paid for propaganda that the word ‘alleged’ engenders. The lawsuit is going to prove ‘alleged’ as fact. Without the lawsuit, just think what such despicable publicity would do.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/techflash/2016/04/scientist-sues-raleigh-cold-fusion-startup.html

    “Scientist sues Raleigh cold fusion startup, Cherokee Investment Partners over $89M licensing fee”

  • SG

    I know this is all water under the bridge now, but if Mr. Rossi/Leonardo and IH had agreed up-front to the following, there would likely be no dispute today:

    1) Escrow the $89 million
    2) Form a 50/50 joint venture holding company to hold improvement patents in which inventive contributions were made by personnel from both Leonardo and IH.

    This would have 1) provided a neutral escrow to determine whether the ERV met or exceeded the test criteria, and release the funds to the deserving party, and 2) ensured that Mr. Rossi/Leonardo and IH interests were aligned for improvements in which contributions were made by both sides.

    • Ged

      Business lessons to learn!

      • SG

        Indeed. Another approach would have been for Mr. Rossi/Leonardo to insist on a percentage royalty of any value or products derived from improvement patents filed by IH.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Let’s hope Rossi’s ;awyers do a better job in court.

  • e-dog

    Can I equate the e-cat technology to penicillin? I think its totally legit and fair.
    Am I wrong?

  • e-dog

    Just stealing some IP from Catinhat below:

    (3) IH may have felt that their scientists contributed crucial IP and so should have rights to some of the follow on IP that was created during the 1 year test and before.

    very good point.. the how much improvement and insight to how the ecat works … actually came from Rossi? if it does actually work?

    If this is the case it goes to show that keeping this tech secret is selfish and bad for us all. imagine keeping penicillin a secret!!!

    • Michael W Wolf

      If it didn’t just come from Rossi, they would be able to duplicate.

  • e-dog

    If Rossi gave them the formula and they reproduced his work and tried to dodge the deal…. bad IH.. take those bastards out the back and sort them out

    If Rossi’s ecat does work why are they not cashing in and investing like they said they would? If they sold a million e-cats for $200 bucks they have doubled their money? No?

    This is all so dodgy!
    Rossi needs to man up and save the world if he is for real, tell us all the formula and really start the new fire. Change the world, dont be selfish.

  • Michel Vandenberghe

    Considering their business is based on IP , is their business viable considering the current maturity of IP and low barriers to entry once the initial process is known?

    • Mats002

      This looks like a fight over a single non-americans IP on US soil, Capitol Hill is involved – we know Brillouin went there. What can the outcome in US court system be?
      I think EU must step up behind Leonardo, ST Electronics, Piantelli and all other european LENR initiatives. I hope they do behind the scenes, you can make a difference in this play Michael!

      • Michel Vandenberghe

        We can if Rossii asks us some help…

  • Mike Henderson

    Can someone with a good Wikipedia account update the Energy Catalyzer article with the last two year’s events?

    Okay, I invested a lot of effort into trying to write a fair and supported synopsis of recent events. But instead I got banned forever for being a “new and single topic” contributor. I guess the lesson is not to start with a controversial topic.

    Here is what I wrote (you can see it in the article’s history page, too).

    == Licensing Validation Testing and Dispute ==

    In June 2014, Andrea Rossi stated{{cite web | last = Rossi | first = Andrea | title=A. Rossi forum post | url = http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=848&cpage=6#comment-966107 | date = 2014-06-10 | access-date = 2016-05-07}} that a one year long test of a one megawatt heat device was about to commence in an industrial customer’s facility. Photographs{{cite web | last = Rossi | first = Andrea | title=Photos of Rossi and associates with 1MW test device | url = http://andrea-rossi.com/1mw-plant/ | date = 2015 | access-date=2016-05-07}} were later published showing Mr. Rossi and several associates working inside a shipping container that he said housed that device. Over the following twenty months, Rossi frequently posted brief updates on the test at his online journal-of-nuclear-physics.com website. Aspects of the test were shrouded in secrecy, no information was disclosed about the customer nor were any quantitative measures of the plant’s performance. The volume and frequency of posts were suggestive that the tests consumed Rossi’s attention. An active online community of followers developed on websites such as animpossibleinvention.com (Mats Lewan’s blog), e-catworld.com, and lenr-forum.com.

    In February of 2016 Rossi announced the conclusion of the test. In March of 2016, he said the report by the Expert Responsible for Validation (ERV) had been delivered and the test was successful. Rossi initially said the ERV’s results would be released “in tenths (sic) of days” but soon changed his statement to say it would be released in some form when all involved parties agreed. In April 2016, Andrea Rossi and Leonardo Corporation filed a federal lawsuit in the South Florida District Court of the U.S. against licensee Industrial Heat LLC (IH), Cherokee Partners LLC and others. The complaint asserts that those parties had failed to pay $89 million under their licensing agreement upon certification by the ERV of a successful year-long test. The complaint also claimed they had engaged in a “fraudulent scheme to wrongfully deprive Rossi and Leonardo of their intellectual property” by sharing trade secrets with competitors and filing patent applications of their own for Rossi’s works.

    The complaint{{cite web | title = CIVIL COMPLAINT & DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL A. Rossi & Leonardo Corp v Industrial Heating LLC et al | url = https://animpossibleinvention.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/rossi_et_al_v_darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001-0.pdf | date=2016-04-05 | access-date=2016-04-07}} states that a twenty four hour performance test had been conducted in May 2013, was validated by an independent expert, and Rossi had received $10 million dollars as partial payment for achieving that progress milestone.

    The complaint also states that a test began February 19, 2015 when the ERV had installed monitoring instruments in the previously installed Energy Catalyzer system. The ERV is identified as Eng. Fabio Penon. The specific location of the test is not disclosed, only “a customer in Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the Guaranteed Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit.”

    “On February 15, 2016, the Guaranteed Performance test was successfully concluded. The E-Cat Unit had successfully operated for more than three hundred fifty (350) days out of a four hundred (400) day period at a level substantially greater than the level achieved during the Validation Test. By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period.” The specific output of the heat plant is not described in the complaint, but it is widely describe by Rossi and others as a 1 megawatt plant. The $1000 per day customer payment described in the complaint is consistent with delivery of 1 megawatt of steam at a significant discount from prevailing energy rates.

    “On or about March 29, 2016, the ERV published his final report regarding the operation of the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance test. In the ERV’s report, the ERV confirmed that the E-Cat Unit had satisfied all of the performance requirements imposed by the License Agreement including, but not limited to, the requirement that the production of energy was at least six (6) times greater than the energy consumed. … In fact, the ERV found that during the testing period, the average energy multiplier (Energy Produced ÷ Energy Consumed) was often greater than sixty (60).”

    On April 7, 2016, Industrial Heat issued a press release{{cite web | title = Industrial Heat Statement on Meritless Litigation from Leonardo Corporation and Andrea Rossi | url = http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-statement-on-meritless-litigation-from-leonardo-corporation-and-andrea-rossi-300248066.html?tc=eml_cleartime | date=2016-04-07 | access-date=2016-04-07}} stating that it disputed the claims in Rossi’s complaint and they would put forth a vigorous defense. The press release states, in part, “Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success.”

    and under the section titled PATENTS, I added the following.

    On August 25,2015, the [[US Patent Office]] issued U.S. Patent No. 9,115,913 B1 entitled “Fluid Heater.”{{cite web | title = U.S. Patent No. 9,115,913 B1 “Fluid Heater” |url = https://animpossibleinvention.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/rossi_et_al_v_darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001-1.pdf | date = 2015-08-25 | access-date=2016-04-07}} A layered device is described in some detail, however it is noteworthy that the patent does not disclose nor discuss the nuclear mechanism whereby exothermic heat is generated. This omission is consistent with the fact that the USPTO rejects patents that claim fringe physics effects such as perpetual motion, cold fusion, time travel, teleportation and reactionless propulsion.

    All changes were rolled back a couple times and I got a lifetime ban.

    • Ged

      Talk about some gatekeeping on their part. Sorry to hear you got banned.

    • kdk

      That’ll teach yah, mang. I don’t know how many nice words that there are to describe them and their behavior.

    • SG

      Don’t even try with Wikipedia. Let the Nazi-like editors revel in their ignorance. It only hurts them and the credibility of Wikipedia in the end. It is a shame. Wikipedia works well for non-controversial topics, and not so well otherwise.

      • Mats002

        Agree. Remember a fight with one of the gatekeepers about ‘Cold fusion’, we lost of course but made some fuzz anyway:

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/08/the-invisible-lenr-revolution/

      • Manuel Cruz

        The only purpose of Wikipedia is to make it easier for them to edit past events and historical figures, 1984-style, and to control the narrative in the present. Not even non-controversial topics are free of disinformation.

    • psi2u2

      The atmosphere is toxic. I suggest redirecting your efforts for the time being. Until Wikipedia reforms itself and wises up, its pretty much useless in my opinion.

  • Slad

    Just a thought: What’s the deal with Fabiani? I had always assumed that it was a case of “old mates from Italy” but now the lawsuit suggests that Fabiani is working for Industrial Heat. I found some possibly pertinent quotes from a re-read of his Lewan interview:

    “In 2012, a common friend introduced him to Rossi who was then looking for a person who could develop and improve the power supply system for the first version of the E-Cat.”

    “Rossi is the head and runs the R&D. We have staff, technicians who help us. I’m the link between Rossi and the others for everything that regards R&D. I don’t have knowledge on the reaction because the formula is not my concern.”

    ““To be more precise I am bound by an agreement with Industrial Heat, and I’m available for Rossi”

    “With the failures, I found myself having to believe in it. Why? Because when something fails, you see the behavior of the object. The next time you adjust it, then you see that it behaves very differently. And then you realize that it is something unique. We have it all filmed, which still cannot be disclosed. We have photographs of creatures that emit pure light that have completely melted the reactor down, all in a very quiet way. You just turn off the stimuli system and the reaction is switched off. It’s impressive.”

    • Ged

      I really hope the court brings to light those videos and photos he references. I don’t know how deep discovery can go, and where trade secrets can prevent court documents from being public, though. But that would be very interesting supporting info.