Now Thrust from the E-Cat? (Update: AR Trying to Make Propellantless Thrust Directly from The E-Cat)

I’m not sure what to make of this — and I am sure that some readers will put this into the “too good to be true” category, but here’s an new angle on the E-Cat from an exchange on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Giovanni
April 4, 2016 at 3:07 AM
Dear Andrea,
has your ecat-q ever produced (apart from heat, electricity and light) some kind of THRUST?
Best regards
Giovanni

Andrea Rossi
April 4, 2016 at 5:57 AM
Giovanni:
Yes.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi is inviting a whole new batch of questions with this statement. When the questioner talks about thrust, I assume he means a reaction-less thrust or propulsion similar to what people are referring to with the Em-Drive, which has been tested by people at NASA and other places. Those who have claimed to measure the effect with the EmDrive have said it is very small, and the thrust mentioned here could be similarly small, and not practical.

Even so, this would of course be an astonishing additional feature of the E-Cat that Rossi has thrown out there now, but we have no data or details to go on right now; I hope we can learn more.

UPDATE:

Andrea Rossi was asked about the the “thrust” issue, and this was his response:

Andrea Rossi
April 4, 2016 at 7:00 PM
Mark Saker:
we are trying ( TRYING ) to make a propellantless thrust. Maybe we will not succeed.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

And another Q&A

Dear Andrea
sorry to bother you again, but could you clarify if the thrust you have mentioned can be obtained indirectly (for example using the electric power generated by the ecat-q to drive an engine) or DIRECTLY by the ecat-q?

Andrea Rossi
April 4, 2016 at 7:02 PM
Giovanni:
You never bother: our Readers never bother me.
We are trying “directly from an E-Cat QuarkX”, but we are very green on this issue ( green, in this case, means “immature” ).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Sanjeev

    Now EM Drive pathoskeptics and ECat pathoskeptics will need to cross breed. 😀

    • LCD

      Lol

  • Axil Axil

    Can anyone venture an opinion as to what this means?

    Gerard McEk

    April 5, 2016 at 6:14 AM

    Dear Andrea,

    Fully surprised I read you that are trying to develop some thrust with your QuarkX. The wonders of the apparatus seem to increase by the week.

    Can you tell what made you think that it can develop thrust? Was it because:

    1. You widnessed some movement or force.

    2. The developing theory suggests this will happen

    3. Is there any chance it will produce golden eggs as well? 😉

    Thanks for keeping us up too dat with all these exciting developments!

    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi

    April 5, 2016 at 7:09 AM

    Gerard McEk:

    We are making R&D principally to cook eggs. The thrust ( or crust, or rust, or Proust ) if for to make the eggs jump to avoid sticking.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • US_Citizen71

      It’s a joke in my opinion. : )

      • Brokeeper

        Or a reference hint to Axil’s warp jump. (“eggs jump”)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oz5-5Yk6sQ

    • Bob Tivnan

      In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust- the E-Cat is a flux capacitor. http://www.backtothefuture.com/

  • US_Citizen71

    Ask vague questions get vague answers. I would think by now we would understand that English being Rossi’s 2nd language and his caginess sometimes produces quotes that can have a large degree of interpretation. Artefact’s post below, http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/04/now-thrust-from-the-e-cat/#comment-2607128616 hopefully puts to rest this trip into the dreamworld of everyone’s imagination over the interpretation of Rossi’s comment on the QuarkX producing thrust.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Indeed. One possibility is that Rossi might be talking about MHD propulsion, for which one needs magnetic field, DC power and ionisation of air. Magnet can be ordinary magnet, DC power comes from E-cat and maybe if the cat has a window it can also ionise air also. Such device could make air move without having any moving parts.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Sorry, brokeeper already said it. Should read the comments before posting, but there are 143…

      • US_Citizen71

        I would think MHD would work better with seawater since it has dissolved ions to move around. For air I would think you would need stronger ionizing radiation than what is so far being claimed for LENR or need to heat the air to plasma. But, I am no expert on the subject.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Agreed except last sentence;-)

          • US_Citizen71

            Thanks, but I just like to learn new things and science has been a passion of mine since youth, so I know a few things. : )

        • Stephen

          Maybe at hypersonic speeds in air the ionized layer in the boundary layer of the bow shock can be utilized. Perhaps after detachment and shaping of the shock with an ion spike to avoid heating the vehicle etc.

          Perhaps micro LENR devices in the wing surface can locally ionize and shape the surface the air in its vicinity at sub hypersonic speeds too.

  • Nevis07

    Trying to confuse and throw-off competition??

  • Observer

    Having acceleration without a propellant is as easy as falling off a log. (Hint: Gravity)

    I can also time travel, but only in one direction.

    • bachcole

      Would that be one second per second, or one minute per minute? I guess it depends upon your attention span. Newton would be one month per month. (:->)

      • Observer

        I can only travel in the direction of increasing entropy. The slower the states change, the longer the perceived time interval.

        • bachcole

          “I can only travel in the direction of increasing entropy.” Only if you take your marching orders from physics.

          • Observer

            According to physics the surface area of the USA is constantly getting smaller because entropy requires an ever increasing density of states.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You can power your EmDrive with the electricity from E-CatX’s that will be an astounding enough combination.

  • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty
  • Ecco

    Try Googling “propellantless”.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi April 5, 2016 at 7:15 AM
    Marco Serra:
    The thrust in a jet is given by a fluid, in our case air or water.
    About our robotized line, the manufacturing system will remaion absolutely confidential.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    and

    Andrea Rossi April 5, 2016 at 7:16 AM
    Sverre Haslund:
    I can confirm that the so called Rossi effect does NOT produce muons.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • Ecco

      Heated/pressurized air or steam are non-flammable propellants. Steam rockets definitely can’t be defined as propellantless.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457DSAxuwBY

    • Brokeeper

      “A magnetohydrodynamic drive or MHD propulsor is a method for propelling vessels using only electric and magnetic fields with no moving parts, using magnetohydrodynamics.

      The working principle involves electrification of the propellant (gas or water) which can then be directed by a magnetic field, pushing the vehicle in the opposite direction. Although some working prototypes exist, MHD drives remain impractical.”
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive

      However with LENR energy density/power is it now practical with the E-Cat QX?

    • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

      I was really glad to read this. With the propellantless thrust we were getting into wacky zero point energy land.

      Rossi interpreted propellantless as simply using ambient matter (air or water) as the “fuel” that gets heated and ejected. It is propellantless in the sense that it requires no fuel. It is not propellantless in the sense that it can magically create motion without pushing something out.

      • artefact

        The bad thing is, it does not work in space 🙂 (for a long time)

        • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

          Since we already know it can produce electricity, I bet someone will be able to engineer an ion drive out of it. Ion drives are excellent deep space engines.

        • Ged

          Unless you get going fast enough to use the hydrogen and other gasses in space as the propellant (Bussard ramjet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet ).

          • Stephen

            If it can significantly boost the thrust from a conventional thruster or ion drive it could already be useful though.

        • Stephen

          Perhaps one day with an ion spike and a ECAT Quark thruster we can surf the outer atmospheres of the planets (and stars) and cruise the space in-between.

      • Ged

        I also breathe a sigh of relief! I am glad I wasn’t wrong to doubt he meant EMdrive like. Rather, it’s more a ramscoop design, which could be ridiculously powerful. But, even a propeller is “propellentless” in its thrust by that thinking ;).

      • Stephen

        Yup I think thats the most likely and logical explanation. Anything else would be too amazing I suppose. I did wonder at some point if he was distinguishing the jet from some other observed thrust. But as someone interested in the potential underlying mechanisms and science even just a thermal COP of 1.1 is amazing enough. What ever new things E-Cat Quark gives us, Everything else in addition to the COP is an incredible, beautiful and additional gift especially now when it seems the world is in need of these things.

      • bachcole

        “With the propellantless thrust we were getting into wacky zero point energy land.” LOL. Yes, weren’t we. I was too polite to say it, but I was thinking it. We have stepped back from the abyss.

      • DrD

        Agree. Back to reality.

  • Karl Venter

    I am curios as to how somebody would know that an ECAT x can produce thrust
    Surely you must have some inside info to ask such a question?
    Seems too good to believe ………………………………………
    Giovanni?

    • Ecco

      To speculate on the possibility, inside information is not needed in my opinion.
      In my case I only thought there might be some similarities between typical EM thrusters, generic LENR devices and some of the proposed theories/observations.

  • Thomas

    perhaps it is somehow related to em-drive which nasa confirmed producing thrust without propellant?

  • artefact

    Isn’t a jet engine that works by very hot e-cat x in the “burner chamber” also a propellantless engine?
    A question for Rossi would be if the thrust will/should work in space.

  • https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Recherche:Transmutations_biologiques/E-Cat RicalWikis

    A spacecraft could collect “ambiant” gaz and powder in a large “funnel” (a parabolic concentrator to a speed vortex in a toroidal cavity), then ionize that and separately accelerate positives and negatives ions.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • artefact

    Maybe that is what the luxenergy.space domain is for 🙂

  • fritz194

    If you think what might happen within LENR NAEs – this is quite similar to what might be needed for gravity shielding / gravity “interaction”. Thrust as byproduct of non-radioactive nuclear gravity shielding. Perfect. There is research in this field – military and confidential. A Mrs. “Ning Li” dissappeared years ago after anouncing progress, USAF paid studies on AIT Austria to verify findings – and Martin Tajmar had to take some downtime…. John Schnurer died in a car accident.
    Eugene Podkletnov who started this circle in 1992 works now on gravity beams in moscow.
    Rossi is a blatherskithe. Even if there is some chance that this might work – I would keep that confidential until further notice.

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi should get this new feature of the LENR reaction into his IP before somebody else does.

    • gdaigle

      Ning Li, Podkletnov and Tajmar all worked with low temperature superconductors. So if this reaction occurs above the temperature of liquid nitrogen that would be something new. In addition, Tajmar has been replicating the experiments of Podkletnov, Modanese and Wallace all last year as head of a physics department at the University of Dresden. During his “downtime” he was a professor at KAIST, the Korean analog of MIT. If Rossi wants anyone to test if there is thrust with the E-Cat, they should write a proposal to him.

      • fritz194

        The common thing with superconductivity and LENR is (probably) the formation of a Bose Einstein Condensate (BEC).
        If the presence of a BEC causes macroscopic force anomalies in respect to gravity or ether 2.0 – we have found something very nice.
        A profound argument auf skeptics regarding lenr and antigravity is typicalwise that there is pretty less “Space” for new physics.
        I agree with that – but the other way around – I assume that once LENR is understood – lots of other marginal borderline effects might be explained and understood.

        • fritz194

          Having that missing link – and assuming the referenced people are no fraudsters -, we will understand Hutchinson Levitation, Effects, Grebenikov CSE, Levitation, Keely…. So if we apply Ockhams Razor – its favourable that the number of needed changes to physics is minimal.

  • Julian Becker

    Not sure as I quickly went over the comments. Lets call it an EMcatx-Quark

    • Julian Becker

      …or short EMCat

      • Mats002

        If IH/Darden refuse to publish any part of ERV report for the original low temp Cat, this story will turn into a CATastrophe!

        I will take it as a negative outcome and that makes all claims from ‘Rossi says’ to look very foolish.

        The serious LENR community with COP a little over 1 without levitating features, having open data and published 3rd party reports with name and phone number will be the winners.

        • Julian Becker

          Anyway the question for me is: Can I go in a year or two into any electronics shop (or even buy it on the internet) and ask them to sell me an Ecat-QuarkX in the form of a light bulb. And hope it doesn’t drag out the cables when it wizzes off into hyperspace…

  • Tono

    I start being afraid. I would prefer heating in my house first.

    • Bob Greenyer

      A COP of 1.5 would really help me.

  • Brokeeper

    Gotchya, sometimes it is easy to read between the lines with Rossi speak. 🙂