Rossi: Leonardo ‘Warship’ Ready With Robotics to Rapidly Produce Low Price E-Cats, ‘Burn Out’ Competition

Andrea Rossi has said recently that his biggest problem is the size of his potential market, and it got me thinking. The need for energy is universal, and who would not want a source of energy that is much cheaper than what is currently available, and clean and green at the same time. So I asked him about that on the JONP this morning:

“Frank Acland March 25, 2016 at 7:18 AM
Dear Andrea,
You said recently that your problem is the multitude of your potential customers. I think this could be a major challenge, as when people realize what your E-Cats can do, the demand will be huge. You will essentially be starting from nothing, to where you need to be producing millions of units a year immediately to meet expectations. Can you realistically do it? Or should we be prepared for very long waiting lists for delivery of E-cat products?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland

“Andrea Rossi March 25, 2016 at 9:21 AM
Frank Acland:
Leonardo Corporation is prepared and ready.
The deliveries of all the robotized lines will be fast, Rossi added this phrase later [I already signed the MOU] the factory is already ready and I designed the E-Cat QuarkX in a way that will ease the manufacturing, because I have designed it together with the robot experts I am working with and the electronic engineers I am making with the prototypes.
Leonardo Corporation is ready, do not worry. We will be very fast with the distribution, because we want to burn out ALL our possible competitors, whose only strategy I can see is hope to be ready to copy our products, pretending they will have invented them. They will be beaten in two fronts: patent violation and price: Leonardo Corporation will start immediately with very low prices, due to the massive production they will not be ready to do. I have pretty good intelligence about all what is happening around, what really is behind the chatters and there is nobody ready with any structure necessary to compete with us, let alone a product. Leonardo Corporation will have warships, they will have paper ships, made of the same substance of my paper ships I used to make and test in the fountain of the zoo of Milan ( Milano, Italy ) when I was 4 years old.

Rossi added this sentence later:

This having been said, I must add that there is also some competitor that is working very seriously and upon technology really different from ours: but they don’t talk, as I did until 2011.

F8, F9.
Warm Regards, A.R.”

Rossi is saying here that all the necessary preparations have been made. He has mentioned before that the robotics partner he has been working with is ABB Robotics who are one of the most advanced Robotics countries in the world with much experience in making automated manufacturing lines.

He seems confident that the low-cost/rapid distribution strategy will make it impossible for him to be matched by competitors. I wonder if he sees the other companies that are being supported by Industrial Heat/Lux Energy as his main competitors.

  • DrD

    Well to start with, the utility companies buy my electricity for about 4p/unit but charge me about 18p/unit. Selling energy is not a good deal.
    Then there’s the auto and aviation markets which could use his Cat’s instead of batteries so how would he get into those? I believe that profit and personal gain is not his only motivation.

  • DrD

    that’s right and he implied (despite the lower efficiency when producing electric compared to heat) it’s more efficient than Thermo or photo which is what I thought I said. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

  • Surveilz

    The ever cocky Mr. Rossi. Let’s hope he surrounds himself with benevolent financial backers and not the usual crop of savage capitalists.

  • cashmemorz

    It all eventually devolves or evolves to the subjective sense of power. At first it’s: how much power do I as an individual feel I have over my immediate environment. As my life improves it becomes keeping up with the Jones’s, then showing that I am better than the Jones’s. A billionaire is less satisfied with things as they are then is the person just meeting his basic needs. If applied to everyone by use of physical power via LENR or other means, where does it stop?

  • cashmemorz

    After a generation or two of everyone getting used to the idea it might work like Clovis says. Its the catch 22 that inflation puts a wrench into that theory. Maybe it might work if that problem of inflation is somehow mitigated.

  • radvar

    Re skepticism about e-Cat X:

    Consider rapid and unexpected technological advances:

    – aviation: first powered flight in 1903; dogfights in 1917
    – nuclear energy: atomic pile, 1942, atomic war, 1945
    – semi-conductor technology: started in the 1930’s; lasers invented in 1960; semiconductor laser, 1962
    – computation: code breaking in 1940’s, IBM 360 in 1964, smart phones in 2000.
    – cold fusion: Pons-Fleischman experiment in 1989; close to commercial breakout in 2016

    Richard Feynman: “There’s Plenty of Room at the Bottom.”

    We don’t know what’s down there, and we can’t predict how fast it can be brought to usefullness.

    A healthy skepticism is always appropriate, at minimum to guard against dashed hopes.

    Doubt because things seem too fantastic needs to be tempered with a review of reality.

    • DrD

      Hot fusion?

      • GreenWin

        1951-Promised ‘unlimited’ clean energy
        1971 – delivered EXACTLY ZERO WATTS energy – begged fo $Bs$$ MORE taxpayer funding
        1991- repeat 1971ZERO WATTS energy – more taxpayer funds begging
        2011- more failures e.g. NIF, $Bs$ wasted on ITER Boondoggle…
        2016 – rinse, repeat NOT ONE WATT USEFUL energy since 1951!!

  • Brent Buckner

    I just bumped across what I think might be a reason for a 1 year test involving a customer – a prior use defense against any subsequent attempt by a third party to patent something that was being kept as a trade secret:
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/03/27/how-do-you-launch-a-potentially-world-changing-energy-technology/#comment-2592352357

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Let’s not be silly here. Because I tell you that too much sun is bad, you switch that to meaning NEVER go out in the sun?

    The idea that I am suggesting a country does not trade to its benefit is beyond silly. What is this, a grade 1 discussion?

    When at what point in any time did I suggest trade is bad thing? I mean, really, just wow dogs barking in the night? So too much sun is bad now becomes NEVER go out in the sun? What kind of silly logical thinking is that?

    I simply stated that a nation that does not property manage it trade will go down the crap hole of losing their industrial base, and we seen that occur in the past 30 years.
    Prior to all of these silly open trade agreements North America had the strongest economy in the world by managing that trade.

    What economy are you talking about that has such a open trade policy that is doing well today? ANY economy doing well today has huge trade barrios in place, be they the result of regulations or that of culture issues.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Christina

    Frank,

    I don’t understand if Dottore Rossi is talking only about making E-Cat’s to sell to factories for their use or is he also talking about making home E-Cats also?

    Thanks for finding out. Sorry if this was already covered.

    Happy Easter to everyone in the world.

    • Frank Acland

      AR has said they don’t yet have safety certification for home E-Cat products, so the first products will apparently be industrial ones.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Lisa Rychlicki March 26, 2016 at 5:02 PM
    Dear Dr Rossi:
    Do you have to wear eyeglasses when you look at the E-Cat QuarkX ?
    Thank you if you can answer, Lisa

    Andrea Rossi March 27, 2016 at 8:11 AM
    Lisa Rychlicki:
    Yes. The light is unsustainable for the eyes if you look straight into it.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Bob Tivnan

      This makes me wonder if electricity is generated using existing photovoltaic technology, which is what BLP is doing with their SunCell (except it’s not LENR acording to Mills). Has Rossi made any statements that rule out photovoltaics? I was under the impression that the Quark generates electricity directly.

      • artefact

        I think he ruled it out but I can’t find the comment at the moment.

        He also said the electricity is comming directly from the waver.

        • DrD

          Correct, he said also that it’s not efficient, same regarding thermo electrics.
          So obviously the quark must be a lot more efficient than those.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        A possible variant of the converter https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Thermionic_convert…

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah good point. For example, it would be hard to imagine what smart watch made from vacuum tubes would look like.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yes, I think the take away message is that smart people from prestigious institutions aren’t infallible.

  • Omega Z

    http://www.google.com/patents/US20140326711#classifications

    Patent # US20140326711A1
    Applicant : Industrial Heat
    Inventors: Andrea Rossi
    Assignee: Leonardo Corporation

    Clicking Classification goes to bottom of page find this number-> G21B 3/00
    Click on G21B 3/00 takes you to this page-

    http://web2.wipo.int/classifications/ipc/ipcpub/#refresh=page&notion=scheme&version=20130101&symbol=G21B0003000000

    You’ll find
    Low-temperature nuclear fusion reactors, e.g. alleged cold fusion reactors [2006.01]
    ———————————————————————-
    The above is referenced to patent WO2015127263 A3 that also refers to G21B 3/00
    http://www.google.com/patents/WO2015127263A3?cl=en

    Applicant: Industrial Heat, Llc
    Inventors: Andrea Rossi, Thomas Barker DAMERON

  • Omega Z

    A guaranteed annual income for a person would require a guaranteed annual input of labor from that person.

    In reality, Such guarantees are worthless.

    • cashmemorz

      Worthless because giving everyone free$ leads to inflation. Merchants see more money available for basic needs raises prices for basic needs items. The guaranteed income people will be pay for basics even at mildly inflated prices because the basics have to be obtained. Inflation increases by ripple effect through economy. Slowly everything goes up in price. To cover the inflation more $ is printed and given to banks as the staring point for money infusion into the nations economy. Round and round like a snake biting its own tail.

  • Omega Z

    ->”lands that usa and nato destroyed.”

    Lands that were destroyed long before the USA and Nato existed. Lands of perpetual war for 1000’s of years.

  • Omega Z

    (If it’s real and IF it works)

    According to Rossi, It would appear it may produce electricity directly.
    However, he adds the caveat that it is yet to be seen whether it’s efficient enough for that path.

    Otherwise, It will only be economical as a localized grid system as turbines aren’t very efficient at small scale..

  • Omega Z

    “It is cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient.”
    I agree. It also provides peace of mind. Any problems fall on others to deal with.

    • DrD

      True, which is one reason why he wouldn’t do it.

  • Omega Z

    I have a producing oil well and oil is $100 a barrel. Why would I want to drill more wells when by not doing so, the price will only go up?
    Even at $40 a barrel and some losing money while storage facilities are nearly full, they keep drilling new wells. Why?

    It’s one of the quirky effects of the Capitalist free market system. The fear that there is someone in the shadows waiting to under cut your business and take market share.(And usually there is.) Even given a monopoly, you know it’s days are numbered. You sell as much as you can as fast as you can and when you meet price resistance and sales declines, cut the price to reach the next lower market level. Rinse and repeat. This is the path to long term business survival. To grow and become big enough to survive when the market bottoms out. Tho even this is not guaranteed.

    Thus what you propose would be short lived and you would eventually and likely very soon find yourself broke and out of business..

  • Omega Z

    NCkhawk,

    ->”A heat protection suit would be needed”
    You have no Idea what your talking about or any real world experience.

    The 4-250KW reactors only take up about 20% of the container.(The rest is filled with the older 52-20KW system that’s not used) The 1MW output would produce approximately 5 gallons a minute of 100`C to 120`C water/steam(+/- 1 gallon dependent on a few variables). An Insulated 1″ to 1.25″ pipe would transfer this amount of heated water or steam quite easily from the container to an exterior exchanger.(Point of use.) There would be little heat dissipated within the container.

    I have no doubt that the temperature of the shipping container does not exceed 110`F in the heat of a Florida summer. However, there are people in a few industries who work 8/12 hour days the year round in 130`F to 140`F temps and they do not wear heat protective gear. Just a pair of jeans and short sleeve or “T” shirts. Some within 4 foot of 3`x3` foot or larger open door of an industrial furnace exposed to (850`C/1600`F).

    As to Rossi’s where about’s, except for periodic physical checks or when issues arise in the 1MW container, he and his team are in a secondary container with workbench, desk and E-cat control systems that has an AC(appeared to be 10K/12K Btu) installed in the side of this secondary container.

    As to the current status of the 1MW plant at this time. If I were the customer, I would be waiting for the upgraded 1MW system with all the issues fixed. With approximately a 6`x6` footprint including all controls. Likely all computer monitored within the maintenance department office. Maintenance personnel dispensed only when there’s an issue.

  • LarryJ

    Don’t forget the entirely new products and services that we can’t even imagine and which cold fusion will enable. The economy will grow as never before.

  • LarryJ

    I think it is more likely that the bourgeois will put their energy and money into employing Rossi’s very inexpensive products to enhance and power new products of their own and then using those products to try and control segments of the economy much like Google controls the search engine segment. This is a paradigm shift so it is very difficult to even imagine what new products might come into being. The opportunities for the bourgeois will be immense and since they tend to be well informed (a la Bill Gates) they will have already shifted out of energy and will be watching for the next opportunity. War is pointless and this shift cannot be stopped.

  • Brent Buckner

    Sure; let’s change that to: “Rossi consistently told us that IH was in charge of the year test”.

  • Stephen Taylor

    You are so right. It may be time for a comprehensive reevaluation of this entire situation. It has been five years since Rossi went public. What have we really learned? Not much. We should start thinking about a contrarian view.
    As far as I can tell the Pd D reaction is weak and inconsistent. The evidence for Ni H is very reminiscent of same. Where are we? Where are we headed? I don’t like what I see.

  • cashmemorz

    From the viewpoint that everything in the human social sphere devolves to the plane of power, yes, war of some kind could be used to keep those on power, in power. It is just the kind of war that is to be determined. Propaganda a la skepto-paths?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Losses are part of the game, even for professionals. But if investors respect some principles, such as diversification, and avoid too risky decisions the probability to end up with a decent result after a long enough time (decades) is relatively high. Certainly, in short-term trading you have usually no chance against the big players.

  • Andrew

    It will take decades to cut the miles on the red tape before domestic ecats would be available to joe blow public. Industry and utilities will be the first to venture. As for “if I can produce electricity for free I would sell it”. Sure this would work for a while but as the technology proliferates selling excess juice would be like trying to sell sunlight. I’m sure people thought the same thing when electric freezers came out, “I’m going to make a fortune selling ice!”

    • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

      I think that estimate is too pessimistic. The public will DEMAND the Quak ASAP. If it actually works and produces independent home electricity and home heating at a very low cost, such as electricity at 3 cents per kilowatt hour or less, then politicians will want to win favor with the public by speeding the regulatory process. In California especially the cost of electricity is sky high and people will resent any attempt to stall consumer availability.

      • Andrew

        Only after money is made hand over fist. Never underestimate the relationship between big money and politicians. They can always buy more votes.

  • Alan DeAngelis
    • Alan DeAngelis
      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Obvious

          “The air-ship, on the plan of those built by Santos-Dumont, is a
          delusion and a snare. A gas balloon, paddled around by oars, is an old
          idea, and can never be of any practical use. Some day, no doubt, some
          one will invent a flying machine that one will be able to navigate
          without having to have a balloon attachment. But the day is a long way
          off when we shall see human beings soaring around like birds.”
          -Lord Kelvin

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Thank you Obvious.

            When did he say that?

            • Obvious

              I am pretty sure it was on a trip to the Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility in 1902.

              • Alan DeAngelis

                Ok, it’s making sense. I think he made the flying machines are impossible quote in 1895. So, he must have been aware of the Hall–Héroult process (1886) for making aluminum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall%E2%80%93H%C3%A9roult_process
                and he was at Niagara Falls hydroelectric facility (in 1902) where aluminum metal is made. And he must have known about Samuel Langley’s 1896 unpiloted ¾ of
                a mile catapult launch model by then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Pierpont_Langley
                And if he had lived another 35 years he would have known about these aluminum flying machines.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhmFFtjB2qY

                • Obvious

                  I think his main opposition to powered flight was that the power to weight ratio of existing engines (plus fuel requirements) was totally at odds with being able to get off the ground. The availability of aluminum metal and the know-how to use it certainly changed that paradigm.

                • psi2u2

                  Interesting that the materials science was the enabling factor.

                • Obvious

                  A few weeks ago I was reading a book that followed 5 “basic” inventions, and their long-term repercussions. It shows that prediction of simple consequences are fairly easy, but once adopted, new technology spawns so many new technologies and social changes that the consequences over the long term are nearly unpredictable and often extremely far removed from the invention that started the change.

                  The invention of clear (transparent) glass was one example. Clear glass to lenses for eyeglasses to telescopes, microscopes, prisms etc. The subsequent inventions lead to widespread reading, discovery of new planets, galaxies, navigation improvements, reliable trade routes, new immigration patterns, discovery of germs, safe-to-drink water, light properties (waves vs particles), lasers…

                • Alan DeAngelis

                  Yes, he was aware of heavier-than-air flying meat machines.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        No need to use outrigger combustion chamber. This drawing refers to the old development with fission reactors. Using e Cat X apparently would require some increase the volume combustion chamber significant change nozzles for spraying conventional fuel control system.The first engines apparently remain partial use of fossil fuels.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Yeah Fedir, it looks like they were starting to think about more compact versions.
          http://www.oocities.org/area51/rampart/6805/nucengmd.gif

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Yes, perhaps this design. Only the inner liquid metal contour excess. Perhaps in the first generation of engines will continue the partial combustion of fossil fuels for a period of heating reactors and modes takeoff and climb.

    • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

      Someone should ask Rossi what he estimates the cost per kilowatt hour will be with the Quark. He must have an updated mental calculation as the Quark is a new technology which he seems to suggest has a higher COP. I personally do not want to bother him. Mr. Rossi seems to have a gregarious nature, but I still do not like to bug him with too many questions. I have no objection to someone else asking.

    • Skip

      Thanx for posting this chart. I had seen it before but didn’t know where. Here’s the 2014 version:
      https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2014.png

  • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

    Where does wealth come from? Does it come from government? What entity will distribute wealth to everyone, and what entity will create that wealth?

    Listen folks, I want to keep the discussion on LENR; I am just trying to point out that LENR technology is not a cure-all. This website should educate people about LENR, but it should not mislead people into thinking that LENR will solve all of our problems. LENR should be a tool, not a religion or a false hope. We have to fight many battles on many fronts to survive on this planet, and energy production technology is just part of the equation.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Wealth comes from when an individual does and creates something more than the input cost of that action.

      If a company can make MORE money than the cost of hiring you, then they will hire as many people like that as possible until such time that hiring additional people will NOT make them money!

      I mean, why else would someone pay you for work, or something you have to offer?

      So if by a company hiring you, you make them money, they will fight to pay you!

      And it does not have to be a company hiring
      you! If you can grow some tomatoes, and if the value of those tomatoes is
      greater than the input costs, then you are creating wealth.

      The key concept here is that because you have a VERY nice car, this does not suggest that someone else goes without a car. Say during the summer you find an old rusted out 38 Chevy in your grandfather’s barn. It can sit there for years and continue to rot.

      Or you can spend all your spare time restoring that car to mint condition. When you drive around town with that beautiful car, people will admire you and say what a nice car! And someone might even offer you $75,000 for that car.

      The VERY important concept here is because you have that beautiful car, it does not suggest or means that someone else goes without that car BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE!

      And in place of restoring that car, perhaps you start up a coffee shop, and use that money to purchase that beautiful car. The net result is the same – ie: your efforts created wealth to allow you to own a nice car.

      The concept here is that your labor or efforts created that car, and you having that car does not mean someone else goes without a car. Of course others seeing you have that nice car might want to take it away, or perhaps tax you more because they think it is unfair you have that nice car. And they justify this want to tax or take away your car because they been told that you have a nice car, and someone else now has to go without a nice car.

      Wealth creating thus does not mean that because you ate a burger, or have a nice car, that someone else goes without a burger or car – unless of course those without that car or burger want to take away your car or burger!

      At the end of the day, if you do nothing, then that 38 Chevy would remain a rusted hunk of metal without any value to anyone until such time efforts and labor are used to restore that car. You put your labor into that car, you now have a beautiful car that is the envy of the town. Or if fixing cars is not your gig, then grow tomatoes and buy that car. The result is the same thing – your wealth creating allowed to you own a nice car.

      So while socialists are all about taking that labor and efforts away from people, a capitalist realizes that it is efforts and labor that created the wealth that socialists want to take away from you! (and I thougt socialists did not believe in slavery! – when you consider taxes and deficit spending, they have in effect turned most working people into government slaves).

      Computers caused a boom in the 1980’s because it allowed business to be productive faster than governments were taking away the wealth such business were creating by adopting computers. However, adopting a new computer today will not increase your productivity much more then it did during the wealth creating boom that computers caused in the 1980’s
      Companies spend billions on software every year, they ONLY purchase that software because the cost of the software is LESS then the benefits received by purchasing that software.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • g

        The only difference between socialists and capitalists is that socialists expropriate the commons in favor of the state as opposed to capitalists who expropriate the commons in favor of private individuals.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          No the difference is socialist take that money and wealth by force. You don’t to jail for not purchasing a burger from MacDonald’s, but you do if you don’t pay the government.
          R
          Albert