Overview of the Electric E-Cat X

As expected, since announcing the generation of electricity from the E-Cat X there have been lots of questions for Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about it, and Rossi has provided many answers that I will attempt to summarize here, rather than copy a list of direct quotes Original quotes can be found on the JONP (threads here and here) www.rossilivecat.com

Regarding the breakthrough discovery, Rossi said that he has for a long time been looking for ways to generate electricity directly from the E-Cat, and though they had found an electromagnetic effect, he had not been able to produce anything that was consistent or reliable. On December 25, Rossi says that he had an idea to try something new with the E-Cat X, and in doing so found that the electricity flowed: “suddenly, during a night in the plant, I got an idea that arrived unexpected, and in few seconds we got a progress that we didn’t get in years.”

Work on the E-Cat X is taking place in a separate lab from the shipping container where the 1 MW plant is located, but it’s close to allow for easy access to both working locations. Immediately on making this discovery, shut off access to this lab to anyone but himself — in fact he says he is the only person who has seen the E-Cat X producing electricity. He has gone to work right away writing a new patent application that covers this discovery which he says he will deposit within days. He says he cannot provide more information at this point on the E-Cat X to avoid pre-disclosure. One thing he does say is that the ratio of heat to electricity can be adjusted, and also Volts and Amps can be adjusted.

The E-Cat X is based on the same wafer technology that is described in the US Patent that covers the E-Cat, and he built the E-Cat X to fit within this patent, which he emphasized belongs to Leonardo Corporation. He says that once the patent application has been filed he will “set up a specific team in Leonardo Corporation” to work on the E-Cat X.

The E-Cat X uses wafers as described in his US Patent and these wafers which include the fuel and the electric resistors are now being produced by machine, rather than being hand built. When asked if the E-Cat X had any moving parts, Rossi responded, “confidential” but he says it makes no sound when operating. He also said that it does include additional parts.

The electric E-Cat X does require an external energy source to operate, but Rossi does say that it continues to produce electricity during period of self-sustain. Regarding the efficiency of the electricity production, he says it is very high, as is the COP. He says that the power of the E-Cat X can be throttled up and down and that the response is fast.

So that’s a summary of the way things are at the moment, based on what AR has reported. It’s interesting to me that he is again emphasizing the primacy of Leonardo Corporation in this whole enterprise with the E-Cat X, rather than Industrial Heat.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Delta rays.

    I just remembered the name of what I was thinking about a few days ago.

    Could the electrons formed just be delta rays? “A delta ray is characterized by very fast electrons produced in quantity by alpha particles or other fast energetic charged particles knocking orbiting electrons out of atoms.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray

    From the alphas, He(4) from the following reaction.

    Li (7) + H(1) > 2He(4).

  • giovanniontheweb

    integration with the well developed fuel-cell cell technology for direct electric production wouldn’t surprise nobody at this stage.

  • Brokeeper

    Yes, before the weariness sets in.

  • Roland

    Perhaps this simply indicates that Rossi is not an employee of IH, in his research capacity, and as such he retains the IP on his independent work until such time as a specific assignment of the right to use the resulting IP is made.

    • NT

      Dr. Rossi was designated the title of Chief Scientist for Industrial Heat. Has that changed?

      • Alain Samoun

        Yes,it doesn’t make sens to be chief scientist for one company and to develop another project for another company especially using the same technology…

      • ecatworld

        Yes, he used to say that at one time, but he’s changed his tune over the last year or so. Now he continues to say that Leonardo owns the IP and the patent, and implies that IH is just a licensee.

        • Omega Z

          Probably Industrial heat owns a portion of Leonardo.
          A consortium of some sort-“an association, typically of several business companies.”

          Anyway, the next patent up is assigned to Industrial heat with Rossi & an IH Engineer as the inventors.

  • LindbergofSwed

    I think IH are so great they support Rossi even if he is not

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I like the way Rossi gets excited about his E-Cats and
    starts to jump ahead in leaps and bounds, but it gets him into trouble with the
    super skeptics, when things do not turn out exactly like Rossi’s leaps and
    bounds Super skeptics look backward and interpret them as untruths.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Frank: I think you are right something is not right with IH relationship

    • ecatworld

      Well, I’m not sure if something is actually wrong — I’m guessing that the IH/Leonardo relationship is still intact (Fulvio Fabiani indicated so), just that Rossi is making a clear distinction between IH and Leonardo, and emphasizing that Leonardo has the patent and owns the IP.

    • TomR

      If IH has shared Rossi’s IP with his competitors, I don’t blame him for making the best of a bad situation. I worried about this when IH announced they were investing in some of Andrea Rossi’s competitors. I hope Andrea has good lawyers.

      • Brent Buckner

        That’s a pretty big “if”.

  • artefact

    Rossi edited his post twice but the edit does not change the post on rossilivecat.

  • Alan DeAngelis
    • Andreas Moraitis

      I guess you would need a lot of alphas to get a strong and long-lasting effect. Anyway, it would be interesting to explore this possibility in consideration of the number of hydrogen and Li-7 atoms in the fuel.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    (Giuseppe / Rossi)
    Is heat necessary to produce electricity or it is a secondary effect?

    Neither one.

    (domenico canino / Rossi)
    I think the real value of Leonardo Corporation is your brain. Someone can copy or buy something from your company, but what will they do, when you will invent the next thing? It is the same story of Apple, everybody copied the Mac and Steve Jobs made the I-pod, everybody copied it and Steve made the I-Phone, and all the other companies to copy, and then He made the I-Pad. I am waiting for Your next big thing.

    Thank you for your trust.
    As a matter of fact, the perspective of the E-Cat X is huge. We’ll return soon on this issue.
    God bless us all…

    • artefact

      🙂 I will have to get up early.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Maybe you dreamt it up? 😛

  • MasterBlaster7

    “It’s interesting to me that he is again emphasizing the primacy of
    Leonardo Corporation in this whole enterprise with the E-Cat X, rather
    than Industrial Heat.”

    One wonders if Rossi could at all? If he sold the rights to the e-cat, and he came up with the e-cat x while working on the e-cat…[e-cat x] might be property of IH. There may be provisions in whatever contract Rossi signed with Darden and IH. But, even if Rossi pulled back to Leonardo Corporation with the e-cat x…I think the best, and easiest, move would be to go through IH for production and distribution.

    I say…lets not think about it and focus on the (hopefully positive) results of the warm cat test in 2 months. One potential headache at a time. Speculating about corporate, legal, and also future patent matters is about as bad a speculating on LENR theory.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      “I think the best, and easiest, move would be to go through IH for production and distribution.” I agree, it is not a good sign when Rossi says “I am preparing a commercial revolution”.

  • radvar

    Might anyone post here a possible model or models of how the E-Cat X might work? I appreciate that such might be found among the 356 (and counting posts) on the previous article of this subject, but there’s only so much time in a day..

    I’m thinking, ok, plasmons, lots of free or soupy electrons getting torn out of shells when the nuclei do their thing, sure, but what is actually going to generate a gradient by which to obtain amperage and voltage?

  • wizkid

    Don’t forget to mention that the dramatic drop in oil prices just rolls off Rossi’s feathers, when asked if his technology can compete with very low oil prices, he simply says “yes”. I can almost see the feathers in his mouth as he smiles saying this!

    The E-Cat X is the new fire! The 1MW plant is the flint and steel.


    • LilyLover

      Low oil prices are an effect of Rossi’s E-Cat.
      You somehow seem to see a smaller picture here.
      Oil must sell as much as they can before it becomes valueless.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys.

    Very interesting to study the phenomenon from now on. yes i would love to be a fly on the wall, in the E-CAT-X lab. Dr. Rossi, what a revelation, and that it came to you on Christmas night, could this be another god sent, it is quite obvious , i would say, anyway, thank you father, and your most capable servant ,Andrea Rossi,the vessel,

    • Brokeeper

      that describe “coincidence” and “unexpected” are often sign-posts providing
      verification for weary travelers.
      Clovis Ray, I like your headdress. 😉

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    a. Are all four 250kW reactors currently being used?
    b. Are any reactors producing less than 250kW of thermal power?
    -can’t answer
    c. As a particular reactor approaches fuel exhaustion, do you see increased control issues?
    d. Likewise, do you observe a decreased effective COP for that reactor?
    e. Likewise, do you see decreases in the time of SSM for that reactor?
    f. Can the other reactors have their output increased beyond 250kW to compensation for the reactors experiencing approach of fuel exhaustion?
    -can’t answer

    • artefact

      Two month to go. I hope that the decreases in COP will not affect the average COP over the year to much. If it does it is just because there was not enough fuel for the year but the COP will not reflect the best that would be possible.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        If it should turn out that fuel composition is the only reason for the decrease, I would rather see an advantage than a problem, provided that at least one reactor will get through the full period without major losses. Rossi could then use the corresponding fuel mixture in future installations. Even if none of the reactors should ‘survive’ the 350 days, it would still remain an option to exchange the fuel every 6 months, as originally intended.

        • Brokeeper

          Yes, I would think there should be at least a three month buffer in the fuel warranty.

      • MasterBlaster7

        If there is a decrease in COP, at the end, that effects the average COP over the year…I am sure it will be spelled out for us. Remember this is gen. 1. For the time being, it would just mean swapping e-cat modules every 6 or so months instead of a year; no biggie.

        • artefact

          I just want to see a big of a COP as possible at the end but I guess that is just nitpicking. Others not familiar with the e-cat will also look with wide open eyes if the COP is for example 6.

  • Private Citizen

    Does it produce enough electricity to charge a battery and self-loop? Let’s see it!

    • Gerard McEk

      AR said to that: ‘Maybe’

      • MasterBlaster7

        Just remember. The self-looping, infinite COP thing is just an engineering problem. If the e-cat takes off, like we expect it to, expect some sort of self looping device, a couple of years later; or sooner.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Unfortunate, but often questions asked to Rossi are not closed ended questions!

          Given how Rossi thinks, then it takes CAREFUL questions and ones that are closed ended.

          In some ways we often squander Rossi’s time. It is RARE that the public can be a witness to such a great man. You think you could just pick up the phone and talk to Tesla?

          The VERY REASON WHY this is so rare is because in general those asking questions don’t know how to ask questions! The result
          is then people like Rossi simply “play” with the answer to amuse themselves, or MORE often just tune out and start to ignore questions (give up) since it wastes such valuable time.

          Do we want Rossi to spend 15 hours a day answering questions? Hey, let’s have him answer questions for the next 10 years – and he can put all his wonderful technologies on hold for the next 10 years!

          Great, so we all complain that Rossi is making too slow of progress, but then we WANT to spend all day asking him questions! I hope people here can grasp the hypocrisy of this position!

          With a good number of questions asked on electricity production we STILL DO NOT know if electrical output is in excess of input requirements of the device! So we missed a HUGE opportunity here to ask a rather simple question!

          So unfortunately we don’t know if the electricity
          from the system can self-power and ALSO produce excess amounts of useful heat for commercial use at the same time. Hopefully, the answer to this question is forthcoming (but the right question will be required here).

          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Owen Geiger

            “we STILL DO NOT know if electrical output is in excess of input requirements of the device”

            He said the reactor had a very high COP.

  • LindbergofSwed

    When he apply for the EcatX patent, is it possible to see what it is, or do we have to wait for a granted patent, and how long time does it usually take?

    • Omega Z

      His 1st granted patent took nearly 3 years. They have many more in process.

    • SG

      Most patent application publish after 18 months of filing. There are a couple of exceptions: if filing only in the U.S., a request can be made for non-publication, which means it will only publish when granted. The second exception is if the federal government imposes a secrecy order on the patent application–then you will not know about it or ever see it published, sometimes for many decades or more.

    • MasterBlaster7

      You can lose your right to have something patented, in the US patent system, by telling the public about the invention, without a non-disclosure agreement, before the patent is granted.

      I just got a US utility patent myself…so…after the patent application is mailed off to the patent office…about 2 years’ish.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi December 30th, 2015 at 8:06 AM
    Time: 08.05 a.m. of Wed Dec 30st :
    E-Cat 1 MW: another reactor shows a decrease of efficiency, but still has enough COP. The charges are starting to give evidence of consumption. Very interesting to study the phenomenon from now on.
    E-Cat X: works, makes heat and electricity, is very promising.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Agaricus

    One other small inference: As Rossi says he was able to successfully test his new insight about electricity generation within minutes, the change was probably in the controlling software rather than a physical reconfiguration or modification, unless the latter was a simple disconnection, or the addition of an electrical shunt.

    • Jonnyb

      Or even Rectification or high frequency Rectification. Must be something fairly obvious?

      • Brokeeper

        If its actually amplifying the AC input, by way of the internal reactions, either back to the same coils or addied tuned windings, and then add a bridge rectifier at the terminals to produce DC and claim it all part of the E-Cat then yes that may be possible. He said it was producing DC not AC which could be symantic reasoning.
        (Rossi speech).

    • Gerard McEk

      I think the latter is more likely: The terminals running into the E-Cat that can conduct sufficient power can only be those of the resistor. The question is how the electrical circuit looks like. Would there be a voltage between the two (or 6 if three phases are used)? If so then in case of only two terminals (one coil) there would also run a DC current through the heating coil. In case of three phases you can insulate the three colls from each other and then measure the voltage between the coils. Obviously if there is a voltage then a current can be generated if they are connected to resistors.

  • Bob Greenyer

    As interesting and exciting as this all sounds – personally, I am more interested in timely publication of an independent verification of the 1MW plant – if that is real, then all things will follow as the technology is explored.

  • I just hope I can stick around for the next ten years.
    2020 world is going to be a totally different.
    Interested in how and if for the good of all.
    But if I a’int. Thanks for all the fish.

    • There is a Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times”.

      • MasterBlaster7

        I don’t think dolphins recognize Chinese curses.

    • Zephir

      I wouldn’t hurry so much. Rossi announced his E-Cat in 2011 – and now in 2016 still no change emerged at the market. It seems, five years is nothing from this perspective.