Rossi Planning a Commercial (as Well as Technological) Revolution

Now Andrea Rossi has made an apparently spectacular breakthrough with the E-Cat he seems to be turning his mind not just to technological revolution, but commercial revolution. Here are some comments he made yesterday on this topic.

“My dream is a product for everybody that makes everybody make money with it. I am also studying a commercial system that will allow everybody to make money with the E-Cat. I dream a product that extends the benefits of it to everybody. Until I will not arrive to this point my work will not have been terminated.I want to make not only a revolution in the energy field, but also in the commercial field. F9.”

“I am preparing a commercial revolution to make of the E-Cat a money maker for a mass of persons. A totally new commercial system fit for the E-Cat.
Let me study on this.I have an idea, but it too is maturing.”

“To explain I give just 2 examples:
1- example of pruduct that has made everybody make money: the computer
2- example of small individual entity that developed such a product and grew up: Apple
About the particulars of what we are setting up ( F9) it is not the case to disclose them now”.

Andrea Rossi has always been interested in making a practical difference in people’s lives with his technology, and not just success in the laboratory. Now, in additional to making products, it sounds like he is thinking of ways to change the world of commerce, and making everyone wealthy with the E-Cat. This is quite a tall order indeed.

But maybe not so surprising, or far fetched. I have always thought that if we could get products into the marketplace that made the production of energy a trivial thing in terms of expense and complexity, that our whole economic system would need to change, as so much of the cost the goods and services we used is based on the cost of the energy needed to provide them.

I am, however, a bit confused about what Rossi means when he wants people to use the E-Cat to make money. If he means selling energy back to the grid with an E-Cat, that would not make sense if everyone has E-Cats producing excess electricity, since there would then be no need for the grid.

Maybe he’s thinking of some elaborate sales or referral plan where people can make money selling E-Cats to their neighbors and friends, thus pushing the tech quickly into the marketplace. But that wouldn’t last long, and the benefits would be mainly for the initial seller.

When Rossi gives the example of the computer and Apple as a product and company that have helped people make money, the computer has certainly had a vast economic impact, and provided great benefits around the world but I’m not so sure that Apple would be an example of a company that has helped lots of people make money. Their products are very expensive.

So I guess we’ll have to wait to find out exactly what he means here. Maybe it’s a flash in the pan idea that won’t amount to much when faced with the realities of the cold hard world of commerce — but perhaps he really will come up with something really revolutionary. For now I think this commercial plan will have to be a secondary issue. The first order of the day is going to have to get the products working successfully.

  • LarryJ

    You are assuming that the balance of the portfolio will remain worthless. I would argue that if the managers of this fund had the acumen and intestinal fortitude to invest in IH then there is very likely more than 1 home run in this portfolio of approximately 50 high tech startups. I think it is probably a good investment even without IH but with IH it could truly soar. Rossi put his house on the line. Surely you could spare $100. Where’s your sense of adventure. How many times in your life to do think you will be on the inside track like you are right now. The coward dies a thousand deaths the valiant dies but once. I follow your posts. You know what’s on the line here. The world’s economy will soar. Time to put a tiny bit of money where your mouth/heart is.

  • georgehants

    Mr. Rossi needs to get his skates on. I think.
    ———

    Tech›Science & Research

    World’s biggest radio telescope and first-ever quantum satellite: China’s top 5 scientific plans for 2016

    Is China a new a new superpower in physics? Chinese scientists saw a great leap forward in 2015. Pharmaceutical chemist Tu Youyou won the nation’s first Nobel Prize
    in natural science. The work on quantum teleportation by Professor Pan
    Jianwei’s team was regarded as the most important breakthrough of the
    year in physics, and the discovery of the Weyl fermion, a ghost particle that could be used to build a quantum computer, also made a huge splash in scientific research circles.
    http://www.scmp.com/tech/science-research/article/1896555/worlds-biggest-radio-telescope-and-first-ever-quantum

    • GreenWin

      “…the Weyl fermion, a ghost particle…” First we get “The God Particle” (Higgs,) and now this. Who we gonna call?? Wishes for a Happy New Year George!

      • georgehants

        GreenWin, The only area of science (Quantum) where (in general) real, clever scientists seem to be able to work and open-mindedly progress into the unknown, they must clear out all the usual half-wits etc. and throw them back to the rest of science.
        Many good Wishes to you and yours for 2016 and well beyond.

  • Agaricus

    The trouble is that it is precisely because the EU (for example) has to import fuels or build new nukes to meet its energy needs, that opposition to anything that disrupts these highly profitable industries will be so intense. Corporations do not respond to the good of the populations they live off, or even common sense, but only to profits, and many politicians act on the basis of their personal interest, or are weak and easily persuaded by corporate lobbyists.

    I don’t believe that cold fusion will be blocked forever – only for as long as it takes for the current energy industries (and ultimately the banks that own them) to gain complete control of the technology. This would be relatively easy, probably by using their pocketed politicians to designate CF as a potentially dangerous nuclear technology and hence subject to monopoly control backed up by State power.

  • LarryJ

    Woodford Patient Capital Trust (Yahoo symbol WPCT.L) is a publicly
    traded venture capital fund that can be purchased through any broker who
    trades on the London Stock Exchange. They have a small $50 million
    position in Industrial Heat about half of which is in this venture
    fund. Although the position is small a fund of this nature can do very
    well with just one home run. The fund managers claim they did a 2.5 year
    due diligence on IH and since they had the acumen to invest in IH I
    suspect they may have more than one home run in this portfolio which is
    mostly hi tech startups like Industrial Heat. The current share price is
    around £1.00 so 100 shares cost around $150 plus commissions and a
    small tax called a stamp tax.

    I am not a financial adviser. This fund is highly speculative and I do hold a position.

    • Mats002

      Me too, I bought some shares of WPCT a few months ago.

    • bachcole

      Is the “stamp tax” only for Americans; do the Brits still think that we are going to pay for Seven Years War (or French and Indian War)? (:->)

      Your saying “They have a small $50 million position in Industrial Heat about half of which is in this venture fund.” makes it sound like half of the fund is in Industrial Heat. No. This means that half of Woodford’s money in I.H. comes from this particular fund. Big difference. The amount of the fund invested in I.H. is still like 1.72%

      If I invested $100, and I.H.’s value increased by 100 times (not an impossible amount), my share would now be $270.28. Nice but not freaking fantastic.

      • LarryJ

        The stamp tax applies to one and all. If memory serves it is 0.5% on the purchase and does not apply to the sale.

        I could have stated the “Small Position” more clearly. The 50 million position is a small part of the combined WPCT funds and not IH. Thank you for clarifying.

        Your math is a bit shaky on the last point. If your $100 position doubled, ie increased 2 fold, you would have about $200. If it increased 100 fold, which as you point out is not impossible given the enormity of the tech then you would have about 100 x 100 or $10,000 from your $100 investment. If you truly had faith in the tech and the parties involved and decided to grab the brass ring and invest $10,000 then you would have 10,000 x 100 or $1,000,000. Not quite so shabby as you implied and some might say “freaking fantastic”.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • jousterusa

    These comments from Rossi make me happy I invested in a domain called e-cat install.com. I think it will become quite valuable pretty soon.

    • Agaricus

      Ah, but do you have a white van as well, Joe?

      I hope your forward-thinking investment pays off very soon – for all our sakes.

      • Omega Z

        I think Joe is just thinking about selling the dot com to the highest bidder.

        • Agaricus

          Er, yes OZ, I think I managed to work that out, thanks. The first line is just a feeble joke.

  • Jonnyb

    Has anyone else noticed that Thunder Fusion seems to have changed their description of the process. It is now ‘full combustion of Fossil Fuels or others’. Seems to have changed to me, maybe to get over the Patient Issues or maybe something different to LENR? any ideas?

    • Andreas Moraitis

      They changed their name to “Thunder Energies Corporation” some time ago. On their new website they mention the “Santilli Combustion” process, as is utilized in MagneGas, but they are still talking about neutron sources and nuclear synthesis. So they avoid speaking of fusion while keeping the nuclear aspect. That could be due to tactical, but as well scientific reasons.

      BTW: MagneGas (led by Ruggero Santilli’s son Ermanno) recently experienced a vicious attack by an anonymous author on SeekingAlpha, which caused the stock to plunge by more than 20 percent. A prospect of what we can expect in the forthcoming years.

      • Agaricus

        Blog attacks are probably at the mild end of what any company close to launching a novel energy product can expect.

      • Jonnyb

        Thanks

  • Owen Geiger

    Rossi’s latest comments sounds like he’s devising a dual purpose energy
    generator that outputs heat, electricity or some combo of the
    two. Imagine a handheld sized unit that you carry around and everything plugs
    into it. Or, since any size is possible by stacking more or fewer
    wafers, use a pocket sized version that keeps your hands warm and also
    plugs into your computer, etc. Everyone will eventually have a larger unit to power and heat homes and businesses.

    The business revolution Rossi describes may be a simple extension of what I just said. People in developing countries will have a small power pack (portable energy generator) that they can use to power their phone, sewing machine or any other small machine. Rich countries can afford to buy large home units or appliances with the E-Cat generator built in — like furnaces, refrigerators and air conditioners. An affordable lightweight portable generator will vastly improve the lives of countless millions who don’t have reliable/affordable grid connections.

    This breakthrough also opens the door to
    electric vehicles in just a few years hopefully. Just pair the energy
    generator to a matching sized battery. Just imagine the market for this
    technology!! It seems the wafers are made with low cost materials like
    nickel, and can be mass produced much more easily than the alumina oxide tube versions we’ve seen. This is surely the
    greatest invention of all time. It will give us near infinite low cost
    portable heat and power independent of the grid.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Frank Acland December 29th, 2015 at 10:07 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    A few question regarding the E-Cat X, if you don’t mind.
    1. How are you making these wafers nowadays — by machine, by hand?
    2. Does the fuel wafer in the E-Cat X include the resistors as described in your US Patent?
    3. What do you do if you need to be in two places at once (with the E-Cat X and the 1MW Plant)?
    4. With so many promising projects to work on, there must be lots of work to do. Are you hiring help — if so, how can someone apply?
    5. Could you provide a photo, like you have done with the 1MW plant?
    Many thanks, Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi December 29th, 2015 at 11:39 AM
    Frank Acland:
    1- by machine
    2- yes
    3- I have the faculty to be at the same time in two different places
    (…and to walk upon the water, resuscitate deads- I did it with many zombies- etc etc)
    4- now the Team id complete, but soon I will need help and we will make known how to apply. I want to make new jobs
    5- sooner or later I will. Now it is impossible
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Bob

      Uh oh! Great shades of Keshe! (#3 answer)
      .
      Sorry I could not resist! I am sure this answer was entirely tongue in cheek.
      .
      We had a mild winter storm last night and our power was knocked out at 8:00 p.m.
      The power company returned service at about 1:00pm this afternoon. About 17 hours down. This is not too big an issue, after all, my mother did not have any electricity growing up until after she was married! I surely can survive 17 hours! The biggest inconvenience would be that I have well water. So without power I have no water.
      .
      However, I have a generator hooked to my distribution panel. So in reality, I was not completely without power. I could not run the clothes dryer (electric) or the microwave or the large screen TV. Oh the a hardship! 🙂
      ,
      Seriously, a home powered by an eCat would be nice, but not really life changing for me. I hope to see it come to fruition for water desalination and power for under developed countries. To help produce food etc. (and possibly heat my swimming pool in December!)
      .
      I do not have to wait any longer for my power to be back on…. but I do wait with anticipation for word from Darden!

      • GreenWin

        Bob, you may be too self-centered in your analysis of grid v distributed energy. Distributed energy in situ means we can decommission environmentally destructive megaliths like giant hydro-dams, vulnerable fission reactors like Fukushima, 600k (in NA) miles of climate-vulnerable transmission lines, decrepit power poles, antiquated sub-stations, fossil generator stations etc.

        De-centralized LENR energy means we can phase out habitat damaging wind mills, and solar farms – return that land to nature, housing or useful agriculture. Distributed energy obviates these century old behemoths and conserves rivers lakes, and oceanscape to natural order.

        No, it’s not all about your heated pool, or well-pumped water supply Bob. It’s about changing how energy is produced and transmitted so it no longer destroys Earth’s habitat. That means being environmentally concerned – about the environment and the welfare of others. Happy New Year Bob!

        • Bob

          Sorry you took my post so seriously. LIke Rossi I was being a bit light hearted!
          .
          But it is true, while I wish it might be otherwise, I do not expect the eCat to make a major impact in the USA in my life time. At least not until the latest stages of it.
          .
          It could possibly make a major impact in the more foreseeable future for those that need water and basic power. But I do not see the huge infra structure of the USA being fully displaced in 20 years.
          .
          Solar and Wind, no impact on the grid so far! They actually must have the grid to survive. Big Wind farms rely on the grid, major solar like wise. The amount of energy being generated by non-grid applications is very little in comparison.
          .
          Realistically when will the eCat be public and commercial? I have been waiting for 5+ years. I expect it to be another 5 years at least before anything really breaks forth. Then it will take at least 10 plus years before homes or cars are powered by eCats. A poster here stated that it took LED’s almost 20 years to become widespread…. which is more complex? Especially if Rossi keeps everything completely under wraps and comes up with a new model every year. If Rossi goes from first eCat to widespread production in 15 years (2011 – 2026) it will be a remarkable feat. I think BLP has been at it that long and look at what they have produced… nothing!
          .
          I hope and very well could be wrong. However, I can dig up many posts from 2011 that stated by 2015, we would surely would see this revolution in full swing and all be driving eCat powered cars by now. That was 5 years ago and we still do not have a public working prototype yet. It was about 25 years ago that Cold Fusion hit the news, we still do not have any on sale yet. (Orbo is questionable if it is LENR and truthfully questionable period, but at least they are selling something.) What has transpired in the past 5 years can realistically project out to 15 more for true implementation. It could be faster, but it also may not. Whether I like it or not.
          .
          Please understand, I am not being a skeptic. I am not trying to dash anyone’s hopes or dreams. I am simply being realistic. Some people have been waiting on the personal flying car since the 1950’s and it is not here. Some want the eCat so bad that it clouds the senses.
          .
          I too want to see Earth’s resources preserved. I could “care less” about climate change, because it makes no sense to pollute the earth regardless of the reason. We should stop all types of pollution, not just CO2. I joke about the pool, but I am actually a little concerned if the eCat does materialize and produce such ponderous amounts of cheap heat, will it be worse than CO2 for the earth? Everyone will be heating everything, even as some have stated in this list. This may not be good either! I do not know.
          .
          So I agree with you… I am not a big fan of wind farms or solar farms. Small niche units make sense. We certainly should not pollute and should not pollute in general, energy or waste or toxic trash.
          .
          Since I do not see dams being demolished soon, nor the grid going away, I have will to wait……….. and may have to wait for many years….

          • LarryJ

            Bob, I would suggest you read Ray Kurzweil’s The Singularity is Near.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil

            We have all evolved to think in a linear fashion because it allowed us to escape danger. If you see a lion stalking you, it is important that your brain tell you exactly how much time you have to find a tall tree and that is called linear thinking.

            Technology however builds on itself with each new discovery benefiting from many that went before and this expansion is exponential and is not at all intuitive to our brains. The best known example is Moore’s Law but all information based technologies improve at an exponential rate. How long did the vinyl phonograph record last, then magnetic tapes, then CD’s, then DVD’s now Flash Drives. When’s the last time you saw a snapshot camera. Each new innovation becomes ubiquitous and is replaced more quickly than the previous and of course the example you now see (and complain constantly about) is the evolution of the ecat which many here including yourself complain will never see the light of day because it’s evolution is too quick to allow its introduction. It will see the light of day and if you hold a positive attitude (because negatives are hard on your health) you will see miracles in your lifetime you couldn’t even imagine today, including Rossi’s nuclear battery.

            The Singularity is a point in time, around 20m – 25 years in the future when Kurzweil predicts that change will come so fast that it is impossible to see past that point in time, thus the singularity. I used to wonder how that rate of technology change could possibly be powered and now I know.

          • GreenWin

            The good news Bob is the E-Cat has cost tax payers zero $$. There is a 1MW E-Cat completing a one year commercial burn-in.

            Compare to the the $250 BILLION global tax dollars squandered over 65 years on hot fusion “research” (zero development.) Our best and brightest have promised every 10 years, given another 10-20 Billion $$ we’ll have clean, unlimited hot fusion energy. Just Pay and be Patient.

            We have indeed been waiting for fusion science to deliver something, anything of real humanitarian value. It has not. And so… for 65 years we’ve waited. And continue to PAY for boondoggles like ITER and NIF.
            F A I L.

    • Owen Geiger

      This seems to indicate the year-long test is being conducted at a Darden/IH owned facility since there’s a lab in the same location.

    • f sedei

      Andrea’s great sense of humor and ongoing, ability to thrive and achieve under enormous pressure are traits of character, intelligence and genius not experienced by lesser men. I believe him to be a national treasure. He will succeed– no doubt in my mind.

  • artefact

    On JONP:
    “Andrea Rossi December 29th, 2015 at 8:08 AM
    Anna: No, I am working on the E-Cat X in a specific laboratory I set up for
    “her”. This lab, for obvious reasons, is close to the factory where the 1
    MW plant is operating.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    Mhh does Rossi talk about the lab we have heard of? (20000 sqare feet)
    If so, than the possibilities where to find the 1MW are becomming smaler.

    • Omega Z

      No, the 20K square foot lab is in North Carolina. Rossi is in Florida.

  • Thomas Baccei

    It seems to me that a relatively minor change in the energy cost/ pollution factor in economics is going to be immense beyond any possible prediction. Think of water and desalination. Any businessman knows that adding even 1% to profitability would be a major factor in creating many industries. LENR would bring a major shift in geo-politics. It will challenge the foundations of investment markets around the world. See LENR-City for thoughts on that.

  • Bob

    I wonder what the current eCat license holders think of this new project? They paid some significant money to obtain distribution rights, although some have had their licenses pulled.
    .
    This would seem to be a bit of evidence of a break from IH / Darden, although we really have no idea. Mainly because we really have no idea what Rossi is thinking concerning this new commercial revolution. However I cannot imagine that it could possibly make the current license holders too happy. But again who knows? I feel this is probably another “Fabianism”. 🙂
    .
    A new day is well on it’s way and I continue to wait for news of true significance…..

    • Billy Jackson

      I thought the licenses were bought back or surrendered with money returned? I think a few held on to them. In the end we don’t have many details on that side of things as we lack the contract to examine. What IF games are only fun if we have some form of hard facts to base them on.

      I would imagine that at the time of the license, common sense would dictate that the final commercial form of the e-cat 1.0 is what will be licensed not individual experimental production runs?

  • Agaricus

    In order for ‘everyone’ to make money, participation would be necessary. This pretty much rules out the current industrial trajectory as the world of industry is pretty much closed to non-specialists. No matter how many glossy leaflets I send to my local paper mill, they will not buy their cold fusion boilers through me (or from the other hundreds of hopeful ‘agents’ who bombard them with identical leaflets, for the promised 1% commission).

    So Rossi seems to be back on his original track with e-cat x — domestic boilers/heaters. The market is of course huge and it’s possible he is envisaging some kind of ‘network marketing’ scheme, but I hope not.

    I am preparing a commercial revolution to make of the E-Cat a money maker for a mass of persons. A totally new commercial system fit for the E-Cat.” seems to point more towards some idea about maintenance – perhaps an army of ‘IH-certified’ fitters who will carry out some simple tasks and replace the cartridge in the millions of ‘home units’ he envisages selling.

    However without industrial sales to run up a safety record, specifically of ‘e-cat x’ based products of which we have heard no mention, certification of home units is more than likely to prove very problematic. But not only that. While industrial boilers would eventually threaten the fossil fuel and nuclear industries, and so might give rise to some spanners being chucked into the works by the potential losers, home power and heating units (and the other uses they could be adapted to) would be so potentially disruptive to vested interests that powerful politicians would block them at every turn on a variety of mostly specious ‘safety concerns’. In practice that could be the end of the CF story for several years while the big boys rearrange the scenery.

    • GreenWin

      The process of reading Rossi tea leaves strikes me as guided misdirection. As for the E-Cat industrial product concluding a one year burn-in – IH, Darden, UK investors etc. have IP rights to manufacture and sell such products commercially. The only market with certifiable track record of (E-Cat) operation is the industrial heat market.

      Mr. Darden, being a lawyer has a legal and fiduciary obligation to the combined investors. Given his track record of business success and presence on boards of environmentally conscious companies, it is reasonable to assume he will see the E-Cat through to market.

      As for the E-Cat X which appears to be some variation of the industrial design, there is little chance it will be certifiably “commercial” until well after the IH product is established. While it is wonderful to envision a heat/electric Raspberry Pie component — it will take some senior level management to bring it to market.

      I commiserate with Bob – many here have been waiting six decades for the hot fusionists to demonstrate anything close to useful energy. They have not. And so, we continue to wait. And throw taxpayer funding into its abyss.

      • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

        As far as I know, no senior level management was required to bring Raspberry Pi to market. In millions.

        • GreenWin

          Mats, I mean experienced entrepreneurs and advisers who, like Darden, have experience and connections in business (profit or not.) By example, the Raspberry Pie Foundation has a seasoned Board including:

          David Cleevely – Chairman
          Jack Lang – Vice-Chair Co-Founder
          David Braben – Co-Founder
          Louis Glass Co-Founder
          Pete Lomas Esq.
          Alan Mycroft – Co-Founder

          It always helps to have a supporting cast. Then again, guys like Edison hired attorneys and claimed credit for other peoples’ work.

          • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

            You’re right GreenWin.

  • William D. Fleming

    I made money in my career by using computers. I am far from wealthy, but I can’t imagine performing all the work I did without computers. Besides that, I was able to charge less so my clients saved money. I think that may be what Rossi means: nearly everyone profits hugely from computers, and nearly everyone will benefit from cold fusion. The worldwide effect will be enormous.

    It is not adequate to just consider current energy use and say that there will be a certain percentage reduction in cost of that energy. Billions of new projects will become possible. We’ll be able to do numerous things that have not even been thought of at present.

    At first computers were used mainly for business record-keeping. People were probably saying: “Five percent of my costs are for record-keeping. A computer would save me part of that and I’ll profit by a modest amount.” But a plethora of new applications have been found and everyone on the planet has benefited enormously.

  • C. Kirk

    I’m very skeptical, but I was also very skeptical when Dr. rossi gave the first demos of the Ecat…… you never know but I highly doubt you’ll have a product on the market by april… just as I highly doubted Blacklight Power would have a suncell on the market by Jan 2015…….etc, etc

  • http://www.drboblog.com Doctor Bob

    Talking about Apple….
    It would be nice to have an update on what happened to their research program.