Rossi: E-Cat X Being Tested for ‘Emission of Electromagnetic Waves’

Andrea Rossi made a comment today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics providing a requested update about the status of the tests in progress. He wrote:

Andrea Rossi

Marcelo:
Dec 04, 12.30 p.m., both working stable; particular experiment on course on the E-Cat X for the production of energy.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I followed up with a question about the nature of this ‘particular test,’ and he responded:

Andrea Rossi
December 4th, 2015 at 3:12 PM

Fran Acland: emission of electromagnetic waves and measure of the same. No more info possible at this time.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

We have been told by Rossi that the E-Cat X does something different from the old-style E-Cats and Hot Cats, and he has hinted that electricity might be being produced by the E-Cat X. Now this seems to give some confirmation of that, since electromagnetism is required for the generation of an electric current, but we still don’t have enough detail here to get a clear picture of exactly what the E-Cat X is.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi as well as his replicators can explore the magnetic fields that are produced by the E-Cat by using the Faraday Effect

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_effect

  • Sandy

    It would be an interesting experiment to make an Energy Catalyzer that has the shape of a hollow donut (a torus). If the hydrogen gas inside the E-Cat is becoming a plasma then that plasma might spontaneously flow around and around inside the torus, thereby generating electromagnetic waves.

    • Ted-X

      Also, the inductive heating of the nickel powder would be easier, as the toroid could be considered to be a short-circuited coil, as in a welding transformer or industrial inductive heating at 50 (or 60) Hz.

  • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

    Someone should do the math, but I suspect that even a simple E-Cat home heater could make the USA independent of imported oil. Think of all the home heating oil that would no longer be needed.

    • Omega Z

      Only about 4% of home heating is done by heating oil & that is only for part of the year. That percentage is also dropping quickly as gas lines are completed to unserviced areas..

  • Omega Z

    English is a 2nd language for Rossi. I think you misinterpret his meaning.
    I read it as,
    Until it is done, it doesn’t mean anything. It’s as if nothing has been done.

  • Axil Axil

    If LENR does broadcast EMF to any degree, the dream of Tesla for the transmission of electric power to all for free might be realized.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Tesla_Broadcast_Tower_1904.jpeg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower

    His decision to scale up the facility and add his ideas of wireless power transmission to better compete with Guglielmo Marconi’s radio based telegraph system was met with the project’s primary backer, financier J. P. Morgan, refusing to fund the changes. Additional investment could not be found and the project was abandoned in 1906 and never became operational.

    Morgan and his kind were not disposed to give anything to anybody for free even if this act of altruism advanced civilization by 100 years.

    • fritz194

      Teslas dream, of distributing energy globally using transmitters synched to Schumann frequencies / earth electrical environment has some serious drawbacks. (..)
      Every metal construction would pickup or load such distribution system.
      The known emissions related to LENR are somewhat in the Ghz range.

    • Zack Iszard

      If only we didn’t use Tesla’s bands of the EM spectrum for communication…

      I believe most low-frequency AM radio transmitters would be completely drowned by using techniques similar to those pioneered by Tesla for RF-wireless power transfer. And the overtones and harmonics from such large amplitude low-RF waves (someone mentioned loading on all antennas, including metal structure frames) might wreak havoc on communications bands. Unfortunately, I fear that our modern EM-based communication infrastructure is intrinsically incompatible with the power transmission techniques that Tesla touted.

      Now, if only some team could figure out the nuances of exploiting quantum entanglement for instant-remote communication, we would be in business for Tesla’s systems…

  • jousterusa

    I sure hope this bears fruit!

  • deleo77

    The last couple of posts on Rossi’s blog talk about the results potentially being negative, no word about being positive. He also talks about the need for more data, and in an earlier post basically said he didn’t know if the e-cat was LENR or not. All we can do is read the tea leaves, but I haven’t seen him with this tone before. I wonder if they are not getting the results they were looking for. It seems like something has changed in his tone lately. He seems more sober and less optimistic.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I notice the same, maybe the stress of working, thinking, 24/7, simply too big a project for the number of engineers?

  • catinhat

    I believe it is likely that the ecat-x is generating large amounts of light in the visible spectrum, which Rossi hopes to convert to electricity via solar panels. I believe he and Mills (Brilliant light power, inc) have chanced upon the same reaction.

  • Samec

    Mr. Fabiani told about unbelievable things. What is unbelievable after all these years ?
    Yeah, my hypothesis is: Gravitational modification is enough unbelievable for engineer of Fabiani’s format.

    • Owen Geiger

      You mean something like this: Reverse Engineered UFO Technology
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXiXvpRIgHI

      • Jarea

        Is there anybody in front of him? maybe he is at his garage telling you all these things…magic from a magician

  • Steve Savage

    I don’t get it. Why is “Until something remains to be done, it is as if nothing has been done.” a TERRIBLE moral message? Seems to me a dramatic overreaction to a fairly innocuous statement.
    I think Rossi is saying the ECAT-X is experimental at the moment and that he is busy working out the bugs, any one of which may scuttle further development if it proves insurmountable (the materials necessary can’t be created or manufactured economically).

  • f sedei

    I agree with you. But, we must remember that Rossi when all is said and done is an inventor and business man. His short, clipped statements probably don’t allow him to clarify his reasoning. He is probably referring to individual success of manufacturing and distribution of ECats in a timely manner, not to the effect LENR already has and will continue to have on the scientific world. We can only imagine the degree of pressure he is under.

    • https://pissedthefuckoff.wordpress.com/ Mark

      I hear what you are saying about him being a businessman – that is totally the mindset that he is in. I agree that “short, clipped statements” can, sometimes, give the wrong impression…but I’m not so sure that that is the case, here. I think that this clipped statement, that I called attention to, is accurate, in this case. He really does seem to have the attitude that working on his business endeavors (and being successful) is the only thing that matters. Look at his poor understanding of English, despite living in The United States for YEARS. He just doesn’t seem to have time for anything else, even learning the language. Maybe his attitude will cause him to turn into someone like this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLbrng2Trc

  • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

    Electricity and magnetism are produced, but I think the main net energy content is heat and thus E-Cats will be used for direct heating and electricity produced by steam. I cannot imagine them tweaking the system enough to produce sufficient magnetism to make that the main power source.

    • Zack Iszard

      Perhaps Rossi and his team have imagined how to tweak the system to produce a significant direct output of AC / oscillating magnetism…

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I not really seen anything that suggest that electric is or
    will be produced directly by the device – that’s really wild speculation here. I
    can’t see any quote that suggests or hints as such.

    LENR is some kind of nuclear reaction. Rossi, Brillioum etc.
    all have stated that the standard physics model can explain how these reactors
    work. And tritium, and helium have been seen as byproducts. So no “mumbo jumbo”
    in terms of physics needs to be considered at this point in time until such
    time the standard model cannot be used to explain LENR. Rossi has never stated
    the standard physics model need be re-written. Same goes for Brillioum. Their theory
    is posted here:

    Video here:
    http://brillouinenergy.com/science/the-quantum-reaction-hypothesis/

    Paper here:
    http://brillouinenergy.com/~brilloui/wp-content/docs/Brillouin%20Energy%20Hypothesis.pdf

    Only thing I can see is that the X version is simply better
    in some way. The testing of EM emissions could simply be that of testing of how
    much EM emissions that the driver, or stimulation system used to drive the
    ecat-X emits.

    Unless someone has a quote that suggests electricity is
    being produced (or “suggested”), then there no valid reason exists to think as
    such. There are suggestions that light emission is a useful aspect of the
    ecat-X.

    And there ARE quotes and suggestions that the X version
    would be used for domestic (consumer) devices. This suggests that the X version
    has higher temperatures (since Rossi stated they need better materials and he setup
    a lab to provide as such). And with a higher COP, then Rossi’s statements about
    exploring the Carnot cycle (heat engines) suggests that using a sterling engine
    to produce electricity makes the most sense. And since Rossi stated that using
    LENR to power aircraft engines is something that is now “back” on the table. So
    this again suggests that the X version runs at much higher tempatures.

    A wild and speculative BEST guess would be the X version
    near self-substations during operation and needs very little input energy to
    function. So higher temperatures, and less driver energy is my X-cat
    prediction.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Axil Axil

      LENR is some kind of nuclear reaction.

      A nuclear reaction involves neutrons. If no neutrons are produced in LENR, then LENR cannot be a nuclear reaction.

      • f sedei

        This reaction was named LENR because we really, as yet, don’t know what it is. When we finally find out will begin the real scientific revolution.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          I much agree. LENR going to do GREAT things for the physics
          community.

          I will say that Both Rossi and Brllioum have both endorsed papers
          that explain LENR via the standard model.

          However as we refine what is occurring with LENR, then physics
          will be all the better! The fact that isotope changes are occurring with Nickel does suggest that this is some type of nuclear process.

          The real “kicker” for the science community is that lack
          of gamma radiation – this tends to be a show stopper for many to accept that LENR can produce so much energy without radiation.

          Rossi re-counts that if you let the reaction “runaway”
          and allow a meltdown, then not only are rather large amounts of energy released, but gamma radiation is likely seen. Rossi notes that his medical radiation badge was “bubbled” and thus he (and it) received a significant dose of radiation – an amount well above background radiation, but obviosity not enough to hurt Rossi.

          This large energy release with gamma radiation likely occurred
          when Pons & Fleishman had their spectacular meltdown of their device by accident. It is this “accident” that started the whole LENR craze and made P&F realize this is a reaction at the nuclear level.

          As LENR makes more headlines, then the physics community
          will MOST certainly have to cook up some theories as to how LENR works.

          With the possible rise of realizing dark hydrogen, I
          think the standard model will be able to address LENR.

          Regardless, I can’t wait as the physics community gains a
          greater understanding of LENR – this no doubt will give rise to even better reactors over time.

          LENR makes physics “cool” again, and we live in very sensational
          time as this new “fire” gains acceptance by the science community.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Well, it a reaction at the nuclear level. You have to
        explain why we seeing byproducts of a nuclear reaction such as helium and tritium.

        If you saying that such by products are not the result of a nuclear reaction,
        then you have to share with everyone here how these classical by products of
        nuclear reactions are being seen with LENR?

        The fact that we see classic by products of nuclear reactions
        in LENR suggests and supports this is some form of a nuclear reaction.

        Certainly things hint towards some type of electron capture, but at the end of the day we ARE seeing classical by products of a nuclear reaction.

        Why then do we see classic by-products of nuclear reactions
        such as helium and tritium then?

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Brent Buckner

        Perhaps DeChiaro (and others) explanation of resonance and quantum tunneling explains why we don’t see free neutrons zipping about even while there is nuclear transmutation. c.f. http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/06/louis-dechario-of-us-naval-sea-systems-command-navsea-on-replicating-pons-and-fleischmann/

      • Brent Buckner

        OTOH, there’s aneutronic fusion (c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion and proton-boron all over the Focus Fusion website). Note how nifty it would be if the “X” in e-cat X were for “X-rays” per energy capture section in the wiki article – perhaps not so outlandish if we look at the lithium reactions in the wiki article and Fabiani’s comments on light production.

    • Andrew

      No matter where EM waves are originating from they may be captured to create electricity.

  • ecatworld

    Dear Andrea,

    Would you consider all the work you have done on the E-Cat to be a failed exercise if you are not able to get your technology into working products in the marketplace?

    Andrea Rossi

    December 5th, 2015 at 8:41 AM

    Frank Acland:
    Yes. Until something remains to be done, it is as if nothing has been done.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Brent Buckner

    Yes, I’ve thought that Rossi may be free to share with Leonardo any IP that he develops along with IH, but Rossi may not be free to share information with third parties.

  • Optimist

    Well, all active devices must be tested for electro magnetic compliance or EMC before they are allowed for sale on the market. Doesn’t matter if it is a transformer for a nuclear powerplant or a washing machine. Normally you undergo those tests when you are getting close to have a product ready or a final prototype as any changes you make after the tests might trigger retesting. So this might have nothing to do with the LENR process it self but might be an indication that the product is getting market ready.

  • Stephen

    I wonder if this kind of EM waves could be used for wireless energy transmission? Perhaps as well as doing away with wired delivery to the home it could do away with wires in the home?

  • Ophelia Rump

    If the magnetic pulse is significant they can use it to drive a pulse motor generator.

    That is not exactly direct generation but it would be about as efficient as the percent of energy which goes into the pulse.

    • Gerard McEk

      Yes, or you can do it in the same way as Orbo: Just collect these (random) spikes it in a supercap or battery and convert it into an usable voltage.

    • Jim Anderson

      Ophelia I read your comment and it is close to an idea I had. If you can create and control the varying magnetic field you can create electricity directly through magnetic induction. I have speculated that you could use the magnetic pulse or other varying magnetic field to make a magnetic motor like the pulse motor generator you mention. It might be possible to avoid converting the output of an X-CAT to electricity to drive an electric motor. Instead you would could avoid the conversion to electricity and increase the efficiency of output for creating mechanical output to drive a car or pump water or do some other mechanical task directly.

  • http://gkos.com/gkos/meego/combokey.html Seppo

    Maybe Defkalion needed RF shield because they used spark plugs. Maybe Rossi is preparing for the authorization for domestic use by confirming there is no radio frequency interference emission from the device.

  • georgehants

    Seems to fit our Mr. Rossi
    ——-
    “The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep…”
    Robert Frost

    • GreenWin

      Wonderful poet! Wonderful day George.

  • Agaricus

    Excellent suggestion. The coiled tube could even be optimised for electricity production (copper) or additional heat by induction (nickel or non-austenitic stainless steel).

  • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

    I’m getting more and more disappointed by Rossi.

    Yesterday he made a commet where he stated that it is still unsure if he ever made excess energy.

    Andrea Rossi | Thursday, 3:25pm
    Maryana:
    I am well, thanks God I can sustain the work I am doing. Besides, it is not true I am the sole man able to make real LENR: as a matter of fact, it is soon to say if I am able at all… the tests on course are not finished, yet.
    Thank you for your kind care, though!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    p.s.: your comment is the # 26 000 of this blog.

    What should this say to us?

    He’s 5+ years working on this topic and is STILL NOT ABLE to say whether he ever saw excess heat in his devices????
    Is he still not convinced that his own invention works?

    • Gerard McEk

      Gerard McEk
      December 3rd, 2015 at 1:35 PM
      Dear Andrea,
      You wrote to Maryana, that it still questionable that you are able to you can make real LENR (my words). I would expect that you must be convinced that you can by now, and that you are able to produce excessive and abundant heat, which very probable comes from some kind of nuclear reaction. Do you agree, or is there still some doubt?
      I can understand that you cannot say that you can control, or produce this heat in a reliable way, because the test is still ongoing.

      Andrea Rossi
      December 3rd, 2015 at 5:27 PM
      Gerard Mc Ek:
      Correct the last phrase.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

        Thank you Gerard,

        so Rossi is refering to your “I can understand that you cannot say that you can control, or produce this heat in a reliable way, because the test is still ongoing.” paragraph?

        And he’s convinced about his invention?

        • Agaricus

          Seems to be just a combination of (excessive?) caution in his claims, and a little mangling of the English language.

          • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

            Maybe.

            But such statements of Rossi make me thinking about all the very obscure things happening in the Rossi milieu since the last few years.

            All this back and forth and not one single watertight scientific proof of Rossis claims.

            • Jarea

              Yes Barty, i agree with you. I would like to support Rossi but Rossi is not being totally open with us. I don´t ask him to tell us a secret just to confirm that he has seen excess heat. If he cannot answer that question by now. (and please dont excuse Rossi about answering that) then my interpretation is that something is not working and a big error has been made. In that case, i don´t know what the world with do without LENR …:(

              • Brent Buckner

                It’s insignificant whether or not we support Rossi. What is material is if IH/Darden (and others) support Rossi by providing resources on a scale Rossi finds sufficient. They do.

                I believe that rather than censor all his communications they’ve required him to always use (F9) or an equivalent.

                • Jarea

                  I think we really do something. We are trying to promote LENR. A technology that is marginated and blackmailed. It is very difficult to do if we don´t have all the information.
                  Maybe, we don´t give the whole money but mass opinion and support plays an important role to speed things up.

                • Brent Buckner

                  I think our promotional role is less important now that various entrepreneurs (e.g. Rossi and Godes) have funding (and I believe that their funding has more money looking at the investment space). I expect commercial products to come from those funded entrepreneurs and that commercial rollout will proceed almost as fast without our support as with.

                • Agaricus

                  Maybe faster, if AR didn’t spend so much time on JONP answering questions.

                • Pekka Janhunen

                  It indeed takes time, but on the other hand some people benefit from having something to do while the subconscious is working. Walking around, listening to radio, playing violin (Einstein) or answering easy questions (AR).

            • Brent Buckner

              I think the Lugano test went about as far as possible toward scientific evidence without compromising industrial secrets. Rossi’s done everything he needed to do in order to obtain tens of millions of dollars of support toward his commercialization pathway – I don’t see why it would have been or would now be in his interest to work toward providing further scientific evidence.

          • Omega Z

            Actually, This has to be hard on Rossi. He knows what his fans & supporters are asking. Their asking for conformation.

            Rossi has become more professional and disciplined since partnering with Darden. Giving a thumbs up test passed before the test is concluded is not very professional. He can only respond that it appears promising, but (F9).

            There is one other thing I’ve picked up on JONP. I think Rossi is or has become a little superstitious. He doesn’t want to jinx himself or tempt fate. He all but said this not very long ago to one inquiry. You may have noticed he has become very cautious about saying anything about the E-cat X.

            There has been a pattern to bring this on.
            1MW very stable— Oh 3:AM serious troubles. Sprang a leak.
            E-cat X stable, Very promising— Oh, We will build a new one tomorrow.
            May start it up next Monday.

            Even if one is not superstitious, This is enough to keep oneself in check.

            • Stephen

              Given his background and experience I would not be blame him if he was cautious about how the vagaries in fate will work out. He is also a man of faith and I believe wants to build something for the good which I can only respect and perhaps his faith has a part in his caution about announcing something to soon before it is completed. In these regards I can understand not wanting to commit oneself to the result until the end of the test.

              But I suspect his concerns and caution come from more practical reasons that he is aware of being close to his device but can not disclose and which maybe we do not fully understand.

              I know complex and new devices take time (usually many years) to understand and qualify, we only need to patient a little longer ( a few months maybe) I think with the e-cat. I think that is remarkable in itself.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          It seems to me that Rossi’s goal is to come up with practically useful cold fusion device. If he only comes up with a device where the phenomenon occurs, even in a novel way, but which is not practically useful, he considers it as a failure because then it’s no different from what the rest of the LENR community is doing. It’s also about psyching himself up to stay focussed on the goal. “Dissatisfaction is the guarantee of development.”

          • artefact

            Yes. I think he learned to be a businessman since his childhood. For him it’s business even if he has to reach his goal with science.

          • Jarea

            All this is said by you. I want him to say that.

        • Gerard McEk

          Well, he does not confirm that there is still some doubt in LENR, for him the test is important and should confirm the performance and controllability of his invention.
          I believe that if it wasn’t working at all, the test would have stopped long ago. I also think that the controllability is a real issue and that may delay the roll-out of LENR (E-Cat) by Rossi and/or IH.

      • Jarea

        wtf. Rossi is not answering the whole text only saying that the last phrase of your text is correct. He just want to protect himself from legal issues if all this turn to be a fraud.
        This reduce my confidence in Rossi.

        • Gerard McEk

          See my answer to Barty below.

        • Agaricus

          I had hoped we had moved on from trolls making unfounded accusations of fraud. Or perhaps you are not a native English speaker and meant ‘failure’ rather than fraud, which means criminal intent to deceive?

          • GreenWin

            A remarkable element of human nature: to snatch despair from the jaws of success.

    • malkom700

      Rossi fears that the government begin intensive research and thus be at a disadvantage. Therefore, it gives pessimistic forecasts have proved very effective against the omniscient government.

    • artefact

      I guess it is due to investment contracts or NDAs until the test is finished. I don’t worry about it.

  • Omega Z

    According to one that was aware of the details, Dardens Industrial Heat is privy to All Rossi’s LENR technology, Past present, future, Nickel, Palladium, Titanium or what ever.

    • BillH

      Very cryptic, but at odd with what AR has said about Leonardo Corp. What about AR’s partners in the rest of the World, are they to be gagged by an agreement with one US company IH?

      • Brent Buckner

        Perhaps Leonardo Corp. and Rossi would be so bound until patent application or grant.

      • Brent Buckner

        To expand: I imagine what sort of NDA IH/Darden (et al.) may have wanted to protect a business that they believe could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I imagine what sort of NDA Rossi may have been willing to sign in order to obtain tens of millions of dollars of funding. Within that intersection I believe that there may be an NDA that includes things such as binding Leonardo Corp. and Rossi until patent application or grant.

      • Omega Z

        Leonardo owns all IP.
        Industrial Heat is a major share holder of Leonardo.
        All other parties are either licensees or have also become investors in Leonardo.

        Thus, there is Only Leonardo & it’s board of directors.
        This would clear up all confusion. Speculating of course.
        The Board of directors runs the show(According to %shares) of which Rossi is but 1 member & the Head of Research.
        We have no Idea how much percentage Rossi still holds, but in the R&D, has much say due to it’s his creation.

        Note that Robert Godes has stated that he only retains a 5% holding in Brillouin Energy.

  • Omega Z

    “No more info possible at this time.”

    Correct. It is very early stage R&D. There isn’t much you could say with any certainty. The first 3 or 4 E-cat X reactors only lasted a few days before breaking.

    Perhaps when Rossi receives his crystal ball from Amazon, he can give you the results before even starting.
    —————————————————————————-
    What i would expect from EMW of a e-cat is enough electrical energy to loop back for ssm over the complete configuration.
    —————————————————————————-
    So if it becomes temporarily unstable it may runaway & melts down or just stops & you have no means of restarting it. You will always need a battery plus inverter or connected to a grid even if it’s a micro grid.

  • Obvious

    Don’t they test them all for EM effects?

  • Brent Buckner

    You wrote: “Hey, WOW A.R. has a NDA with himself?”
    Perhaps he has one with Industrial Heat.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer
  • artefact

    light is an electromagnetic wave …

  • HS61AF91

    Moving right along!

  • Gerard McEk

    ‘… measure of the same’? What does he mean? Continuation of the output energy of heat perhaps?

    • Axil Axil

      Magnetic nuclear resonance produces lots of RF when nuclear spin moments vibrate.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance

      DGT disabled their phone system because of all the RF interference that the DGT reactor produced. This is an FCC issue.

      • mcloki

        Can it be shielded?

        • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

          Defkalion Green Technologies installed metal cages around their reactors to block the effect. That is just one of the reasons I believe their technology is still under development somewhere by someone. They may still be in Vancouver or they may have sold the technology to a silent partner. Their technology is a valuable asset and something is being done with it.

    • Gerard McEk

      I would have expected that measuring the EM emissions would have been one of the main goals of the test on cource. It would be interesting to know how and what he measures of the EM emissions. Would it be only in the radio frequencies or also the higher spectra like IR-, UV-, X- and Gamma radiation?

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G
  • Sergio Poletti

    The new era is today !