Beyond the E-Cat Test: The Next Phase

With all the warnings about the possibilities of a negative out come, as well as a positive one, we might wonder whether we should even think about what might happen if the test results turn out to be positive. I estimate that there are now less than four months to go in the year-long 1MW E-Cat plant test (see here for a log of Andrea Rossi’s updates), so we might consider that we are approaching the home stretch.

Today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics Rossi made a comment in which I think we might be able to detect a bit more hope for a positive outcome. He wrote:

Carlo Marcena:
Thank you for your enthusiasm, but let me pour some water on the “New Fire”, to keep it under control: the status of the test that is underway and the data we are receiving is helping us with our plans , expanding our knowledge and proving valuable. This is all I can share at this time.
A strong future is my priority, but I cannot predict the future and the final results could be either positive or negative. Assuming the final results will be positive, which is not certain, the next phase will require more hard work and more help to prepare the massive manufacturing: this effort will need more intellectual efforts. I hope our Friends will wish us luck and good fortune, as many challanges remain.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I sense that Rossi is daring to look beyond the current test now — and he has to if he wants to make good progress in preparing for the future. He says a positive out come is ‘not certain’, but it might now be likely. What will come in the next phase? Rossi has said that he wants to set up a massive manufacturing organization to start producing the E-Cats plants. That could turn out to be more difficult than the work they are currently doing, since you need money, personnel, organization, and cooperation from outside entities to make it happen.

While it all seems like a daunting task, Rossi is a man in a hurry and totally focused on his work, so I would not bet against him having success in getting organized quickly. He has colleagues and allies with influence, connections and money — and experience in real estate dealing, if they need to set up factories.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Right, and Wall Street bankers created fraudulent mortgage bonds so everyone could enjoy the benefits of home ownership.

  • Dean_Chance

    Progress is going to be slow until the Ecat is proven to work, be reliable and safe to operate. Once that occurs, other factors come into play.
    The first is cost. The Ecat does not yet generate electricity,. It generates heat, and while that heat could theoretically produce electricity, adding a steam generator or sterling engine will add significant cost and likely make it unsuitable for home use.
    However,
    Should the ecat prove that it can be used to competitively power such generators, It will certainly be highly disruptive. Without the high daily operating cost of gas or oil, the high purchase cost of and acreage of solar, or wind, the Ecat will quickly become the fuel of choice for a great many fields. It would make hydrogen fuel cost effective and easily produced. It wont matter what the fuels energy density is, because it is clean, and with an ecat, could be produced at the stations that sell it.

    There are a myriad of uses, and once it is proven and accepted, Rossi and Darden wont be the ones making it either. They will contract with large manufacturing companies who will build it under license. That is how manufacturing works. It will simply take up idle capacity all over the world. If it works, reliably, safely and cheaply, its going to grow like the cell phone did. In 3 to 5 years after it is a proven concept, it will be in production all over the world.

  • Winebuff67

    Do we think this will be released to the public in the next decade? Will Rossi ever see it released to the public? Patience was never my strong g suit….lol

    • Omega Z

      The more urgent we see the situation, the more strained is our patience. If patience isn’t your strong suit, it’s all the more worse.

  • US_Citizen71

    Failures are part of innovation. Do a little research on the early years of the space race or just watch the right stuff and you will see plenty of failures. That was with the ‘Top Minds’, big corporations, nearly an unlimited budget, a cold war and heavy government support behind the effort. Failures teach just as much if not more than successes.

  • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

    Why does it seem that Mr Rossi has to supply E-cat to every one in the next 5 years .
    He do not. All he has to do is make enough to supply his established customer base.
    Once the E-cat is out there and shown to work,
    investors will be falling over them selves to get in on the show.
    The growth curve will be much the same as the car manufacture from 1890 till 1990.

    • Owen Geiger

      Cars are different than world changing inexpensive, clean, distributed energy. Demand for E-Cats will skyrocket once the truth is well known. See comment below about the hockey stick production chart.

      • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

        Trouble with a hock stick prediction.
        I that it is usually the result of false information.

        • Owen Geiger

          So what do you think is false? That LENR is not a source of inexpensive, clean, distributed energy? That Rossi/IH do not have a working/practical reactor? That IH and Woodford have been duped?

          • Omega Z

            There are 4 primary things you overlook.
            1) This cheap energy requires expensive hardware.
            2) New & adapted hardware to optimize LENR has yet to be designed & manufactured.
            3) There’s a shortage of skilled labor to design, built, & deploy this technology. And few want to learn these skills.
            4) This technology isn’t instant on. 24/7 operation means wasting energy. Obviously, If you’re paying for energy & not using it, It’s no longer very cheap.

            Ultimately, it will take decades for this technology transition due to the above factors & many “others”. As evidenced, high efficiency HVAC has been available for 2 decades that would in effect, pay for itself in roughly 4 years. Yet about 50% of the U.S. still has antiquated HVAC technology in use. No concern and Not by consumer choice, most of these will be replaced in the next decade as repair components become unavailable. If not for the lack of repair component’s, it would take much longer. That the new technology saves money doesn’t play the roll many would think.

            • Warthog

              “1) This cheap energy requires expensive hardware.”

              No. The hardware is actually quite simple, straightforward, and cheap compared to, for instance, an airplane or automobile.

              “2) New & adapted hardware to optimize LENR has yet to be designed & manufactured.”

              And yet we have a plant in operation 24/7. Even this relatively crude device is simple to put into mass production.

              “3) There’s a shortage of skilled labor to design, built, & deploy this technology. And few want to learn these skills.

              Really??? There are plenty of skilled technical people available, both engineers and technicians. The hardware is NOT particularly difficult. What “is” difficult is the fuel composition and operating parameters.

              “4)
              This technology isn’t instant on. 24/7 operation means wasting energy.
              Obviously, If you’re paying for energy & not using it, It’s no
              longer very cheap.

              Rossi’s E-cat isn’t “instant on”….true. But several other LENR devices “are” instant on. In specific, George Miley’s device starts up spontaneously as soon as hydrogen is introduced. But in an industrial setting, even if Rossi’s E-cat takes a full day to start up and stabilize, this is quite acceptable. MANY chemical plants have similar slow startup characteristics.

          • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

            Nope! Just that a Mann used a hockey stick simile.

            • bachcole

              One small hockey stick for a Mann.
              One ginormous boondoggle for mankind.

              • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

                Please excuse my ignorance.
                But what is a boondoggle?
                I get the imperfect ginormous.

                • bachcole

                  In this context I am meaning a project that cost lots of money and does nothing for anyone, like a bridge to no where.

              • EEStorFanFibb

                despite the wishful thinking of many status quo seekers, the hockey stick was independently replicated and confirmed many times.

                numerous examples are referenced here: http://www.desmogblog.com/this-is-not-a-hockey-stick

      • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

        I think cars were cheap and world changing.
        There would be not the requirement for oil, would there?
        ( Ok just joshing, though we saved the whales)

  • Agaricus

    A little more than proof reading it seems.

  • Omega Z

    Rossi’s posts have gradually improved. That will happen when most of your conversations/communications are done in English as his undoubtedly are at this point in time.

  • Omega Z

    Most of the issues were at the beginning lessening by the day.
    Most of the issues are of an external nature.
    It’s part of the learning curve of a prototype system. The next unit will have incorporated the fix for these issues.
    Even experts go through a learning curve when developing an entirely new technology. Or just a new generation.

  • Daniel Maris

    All this discussion seems v. premature to me.We are not yet even in the credibility zone.

    • Observer

      Credible to whom?

      The people putting up the money have done their due diligence.

      Those that are skeptical will not be in the first wave of investors or the first wave of customers.

    • Jarea

      Hey we need to warm and release our anxiety talking about that. About the future when the tech is with us.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Geopolitics might influence the rate at which the E-Cat will
    be introduced. http://irmep.org/images/proven_reservesh.jpg

    vs

    http://www.tischendorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lithium-producers.jpg

    • Zephir

      Niedra and Notoya experiments proved that the cold fusion runs with potassium as well…

    • US_Citizen71

      Also remember that to obtain lithium all one has to do is evaporate seawater so any country with a coastline can in theory become a lithium producer if the price and ROI is right.

      • Omega Z

        The chart Alan provides has a typo. It should be 1.266 Trillion.
        And from my searching, there are those who think we May or Not discover another 500 billion barrels obtainable with additional technology.

        Using the hopeful 1.766 Trillion barrel number & at present use allows 50 years and out. With a additionally calculated 25K increase in the airline fleet, 20K more transport ships, and 500 million plus more cars, We have maybe 30 years.

        People should enjoy the cheap oil today. Within a few years Oil prices are only going up. We may long for the days of cheap $140 oil in the near future. The projected increase in use will never happen. In 20 years the price will have society scrambling for alternatives.

        The transition of LENR will take time. It is not a threat to Oil. As I’ve posted before, It is just in time. Or at least I hope it’s arrived in time.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I hope Rossi and IH are smart enough to realize, to move into large scale production will require the expertise of a corporation, “that has been there and done that.” It should be a successful corporation with unlimited financial resources, probably large, probably in the energy and/or power industry, with a large customer installed base, very large service capability and able to use the most advanced production technology and techniques. It is one thing to invent the new fire it is another to scale it up.

    • Brent Buckner

      I wouldn’t worry about IH lacking smarts about commercialization – consider Tom Darden’s resume, and that Woodford’s investment implies that they have vetted the commercialization approach.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        We shall see, it is still very unclear to me just how independent Darden is and who he might be working for.

        • Brent Buckner

          If you have a conspiratorial outlook I won’t try to dissuade you, but please don’t think that Darden and Woodford aren’t very astute about commercialization.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Come on, these are Wall Street types, I don’t question their nose for making money, I question their motives.

            • Brent Buckner

              You wrote: “I hope Rossi and IH are smart enough to realize, to move into large scale production will require the expertise of a corporation” I just didn’t want you to worry about IH lacking commercialization acumen.

  • HS61AF91

    Believe that the advent of e-Cats can also be affected by economic conditions, say a collapse of the current over-indebted oil-based fiat dollar system. What would be a greater incentive for e-Cat development and distribution, than the normal means of delivery no longer providing power? I think the introduction of near free energy will come outside of a normal introduction of a new device, because it is a means of device use, the power that runs things. There may be real critical life saving reasons to get e-Cats out to the public, in a near future time frame, that may be humanity’s salvation. (little heavy on the juice there, I know)

    • Agaricus

      As you say, the now inevitable collapse of the ‘petrodollar’ recycling system could have some fairly profound consequences, mainly within the US itself. However it looks increasingly likely that the yuan or possibly some newly invented currency offered by the IMF could step into the gap and allow trading to continue. The oil and gas are still there and still being pumped, and it doesn’t seem likely that there will be more than minimal disruption to ‘business as usual’.

      • Omega Z

        Peter, there is no petrodollar. There is merely international trade that uses the dollar. There is a reason for that. You wouldn’t want to have a pocket full of “yuan” in your possession should China wake tomorrow & devalue it by 10%. The U.S. can’t do that by itself. It requires a concerted effort of Japan, China, India, the Eu & Britain to accomplish that. Even that has limited & sometimes short term results.

        And should the World switch to a different international trade currency today, it would in all likelihood give the U.S. a bigger advantage & a stronger dollar as it would no longer be used to support other weaker currencies.

        As to LENR neutralizing Oil. That would keep an additional 1/2 Trillion$ in the U.S. and over just a couple years, add at least 2 Trillion$ to it’s GDP & increase from there.

  • GreenWin

    There is a fairly decent analog to E-Cat in Bloom’s SOFC-driven “Energy Server.” Announced with great fanfare 5 years ago, Bloom has installed his methane-fuel cell boxes at E-Bay, Google, WalMart and Staples. One box produces about 200kW each at a cost of $750k/unit. Combined Fed and State (Cali) zero-emission discounts pay for half that cost. Customers are satisfied. Even Colin Powell says these boxes are a good thing.

    But Bloom has received firm orders for only 100 units since the announce. His factory/plant can make only one box a day at maximum. As noted in the video, both Siemens and GE have fuel cell divisions and can probably match or beat Bloom’s tech – IF they desired.

    The difference of course is LENR does not use the combustion of fossil fuel to produce energy. An E-Cat’s energy density is a thousand+ greater than FCs and its fuel charge could last a full year. LENR is a superior technology. But even with the power of mass media, deep pocket Silicon Valley funding, and testifying happy customers… it’s been a slow go for Bloom. E-Cat, if successful in this first long term test will likely see a similar growth curve. Barring introduction of commercial products from a half dozen or more competitors.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylpQUQV4Vx8

    • GreenWin

      EDIT: SOFC does not “burn” its fuel by combustion. It uses reformed fuel to combine with oxygen ions across an anode and cathode yielding water and electricity.

    • Jarea

      That is because of distribution strategy. If they have a competive home bloom then they would sell a lot more. Everybody wants to access to cheap energy.

  • US_Citizen71

    It definitely smacks of marketing/PR language so I do not think you are off base. Maybe he has a new assistant that he dictates responses to?

  • Owen Geiger

    I would love to see some graphs that illustrate projected E-Cat production over the next 5 years. Production beyond 5 years would go nearly straight up (hockey stick), so I’m more interested in seeing reader’s expectations in the first 5 years. Submissions anyone? Let’s put time on the X axis (0-5 years) and production volume on the Y axis.

    • Andrew

      This all depends on the current testing. The data that will have the greatest impact on the speed of adoption is how much $$ the current customer saves. If one company has lower operating costs it will force its competitors to follow suit or be left behind.

      • Owen Geiger

        That’s true. With COP of approx. 80 then the energy savings will be significant. The limiting factor seems more about Rossi’s/IH ability to develop a reliable reactor.

        • Andrew

          If I was to guess a what type of companies would be the early adopters it would be plastic injection moulding… They need heat 24/7

          • US_Citizen71

            Maybe the pilot plant is being used to manufacture foam fingers and the like. Lots of promotional stuff is made in the outskirts of Miami. ; )

  • Ged

    Well, if he is contractually obligated to put “positive or negative” in his posts, then his failure to do it in the excited E-cat X post might have made them intervene.

  • LuFong

    Taken from sales brochures to potential distributors?

  • LuFong

    The actual results won’t be positive or negative–they will be somewhere in between. They may very well be positive in that they meet the contractual requirements of the current customer and possibly safety certification ones as well. This would be the big prize and is what I think Rossi means when he says positive. I’m not so sure about the reliability of the product however given the large number of issues (totally normal at this point IMO) and the less than 4 months to go to verify that the product is mature. Without really knowing what these issues have been but given the nature of the 1MW plant my guess is that the 1MW plant won’t be ready for mass production at the end of this test.

    So the next phase will be very interesting, Although we don’t know much about what Rossi actually has with the 1MW plant, my guess is that Rossi will have to decide whether to risk mass producing a product that will almost certainly have problems versus a limited production. And then there is also Rossi’s nature to tinker with the E-Cat to try to improve it which works against mass production. I suppose if Rossi/IH is able to sell $$$ distributor licenses then the answer would be yes,

    But my guess remains: 4-9 years from now before we see mass production of E-Cats. (Remember Rossi declared he was open for business over 4 years ago after the 1MW plant demo and we still do not have a product in the market that anybody can see.) So I believe that the next phase will be a somewhat limited production cycle with more changes by Rossi.

    • Agaricus

      If IH/Rossi remain the sole proprietors of efficient cold fusion technology then I have to agree that your timescale for anything approaching true mass production is realistic. The best hope (as is always the case when technological progress is slow) is competition – the emergence of at least one more player in this market.

      As it becomes clearer to commercial interests watching development that e-cats are the real deal, then more and more resources will be quietly thrown at their research people, and it can’t be too long before someone finds the trick. IH’s plodding, single track development model will need to be kicked into overdrive when it becomes apparent that someone is hot on their heels.

      We can only hope that this happens sooner rather than later, or we are in for some very frustrating times.

      • LuFong

        Actually 4-9 years is very fast given what we are talking about. At times it seems frustrating because the stakes are so high. But I agree with you about competition which is why I would like to see the underlying science revealed like MFMP and others are trying to do. There is no hope that Rossi will open this up so we will just have to wait.

  • Gunnar Lindberg

    First, in case of a negative outcome, do not expect Rossi to let you know what failed. It could help competitiors.
    In case of a positive outcome, you have to remember that the tested plant is a hand-built prototype. It is not suited to mass production at the lowest possible price. A new plant will be designed for massprodukton and then again tested for a year.

    • Omega Z

      I think the 250kW reactors is a huge improvement. Issues encountered in the 1 year pilot test will be incorporated into the production model & is well suited for mass production.

      That said, I would look for limited production in the beginning. To watch for any overlooked problems. Dependent on these results will dictate how fast production is ramped up.

  • Gerard McEk

    I believe that it will be near to impossible to build a factory for mass production in one go. The product must be near to perfect and without any failure, otherwise the risk is enormous. A very slow start up is the only possibility. You should also not change the product too much if you want to build a reliable product. Only if the product has been proven to function reliably during the guaranteed period, you can increase the production. It would be wise to employ the Japanese type of production control (used in the car industry). So I do to see that we can buy an Ecat next year, although I would wish to do so very much.

    • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

      Once this technology is accepted as real (who knows when) then reactors will be built by the millions. The market will insist — and the money to do so will be there.

      This bootstrapping phase is agonizing though.

      • Omega Z

        It will take time to build in mass.
        However, You need additional hardware to make use of the E-cats and that will be a process in itself.

        Just think back to all the systems that’s been pointed out to Rossi for electrical generation. Even for those that look promising-
        1st, They would need modified to work with an E-cat.
        2nd, The current version isn’t mass produced yet. let alone a modified version.
        Conclusion, you need to modify your product & get it into mass production or it’s of little use for the E-cat. So it doesn’t matter at this time how many E-cats you can build. It’s how many they can make use of.

        • US_Citizen71

          I would think for power generation any current external combustion turbine could be put to use to harness the output of an E-Cat. You would just need to match the heat requirement of the turbine, but the rest is just plumbing. Too bad those type of turbines are not in wider use.

  • timycelyn

    LENR G, I’m as excited as you are at one level. However, I feel there is a lot of ambiguity over what Rossi means by ‘positive’ parly due to his laconic/linguistic style, and partly due to a wish to protect their interests. Here are a couple of meanings of ‘positive’ in this context.

    1. Incontrovertible, public proof that this phenomena is real and produces useful excess energy. I know that to any well informed dispassionate thinker, this point is long past, probably well before the first Lugano trial. But to get public acceptance – as Rossi has always said – the one foolproof way is to put working ones into the market.

    2. To be in a position to launch a commercially successful business based on manufacture of these units, for rental, heat sale, or maybe outright sale as discussed. This is a MUCH TOUGHER proposition. As others have noted here recently, there is a daunting equation between maintenance, longevity, capital cost and consequential cost of heat delivered against – in most industrial applications in the US – natural gas based heat.
    Without wourking through the equation I admit to guessing, but I would imagine the units would need a minimum 5 year lifetime – always accepting annual or whatever fuel cartridge exchanges. We are still seeing them regularly fixing bits on it, not at the crisis levels of the early months, but at an event rate of maybe 20-30 days. And we’re 2/3 of the way through the trial. This says to me that they are no means assured of a cost effective and reliable piece of kit yet. Another 2-3 years of experience, then probably yes.

    IMHO when Rossi talks about ‘Positive’ he means 2- he has no interest in convincing the ‘chatterers’ and having some sort of PR extravganza. Also he has -just like Darden and his other associates – no doubt whatsoever that it works, he works with it every day for goodness sake! But to a lot of us, I think we are looking for 1.

    I believe the route Rossi is taking is 1 via 2 – is the only viable route, sadly, because I would love to see a major upset of the establishment in this area in 4 months time. And 2 is tough.

    My recommendation – in 4 months time don’t hold your breath….

    • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

      Actually I think Rossi has a much narrower definition of success. I think he specifically refers to meeting the contractual obligations of the 1 MW pilot plant. There are probably significant future things that depend on getting that result.

      We await controversy-free verification of the technology itself… the reactor. Rossi is playing a different game. He’s made and tested hundreds of reactors, and they could prove whether it works or not simply by distributing some to respected labs to test under NDA. Instead he and IH have chosen to commercialize this technology themselves by creating actual plants ;smh: instead of licensing the reactors. So a successful test is a key stepping stone along the path they’ve chosen.

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    Note that the original message from Rossi did not say ‘(which is not certain)’ it said something like ‘(all but certain)’.

    Now that could be a language thing, but if not it sounds like even Rossi is having trouble maintaining the pretense of an unsuccessful test. With 3/4 of the results in, either it works or it doesn’t.

    His earlier postings about SSM power consumption (instantaneous COP of ~80) and duty cycle (more than half in SSM) mean that the result is a success based on the numbers he has seen so far.

    If some pipes break now so what. Even if the thing explodes, so what.

    The only thing that can tank this now is the ‘referee’ revealing massive measurement errors.

    NOT. F*ING. LIKELY.

    We’ve been right all along.

    March or April 2016. That’s when the ball starts rolling faster than they can control. They will move rapidly to commercialize or they will be overtaken.

    • Owen Geiger

      How do you envision “move rapidly to commercialize” will unfold? There’s a huge number of possibilities ranging from one giant factory to licensing the technology and starting dozens of large factories on multiple continents. What really has me thinking is the part about “or they will be overtaken”. Once they’re confident of the design and start mass production then the cat will be out of the bag. Since the market is almost limitless, there will be unprecedented competition to harness this new technology.

      • Agaricus

        There is also the ‘low end’ possibility (IMO, probability) that the next stage will be to refine everything they’ve learned with the pilot unit and begin modest series production of the next generation in an equally modest assembly shop. These units would then be leased out to clients already on their waiting list, for what will in effect be a another round of testing.

        From what we’ve already seen, under Darden’s direction the project will roll forward methodically and slowly, minimising risk, accumulating data and consolidation every step – but at the cost of mind numbingly slow overall progress.

        Meanwhile China plans to build 400 new fission nukes, including 300 to be built along a seismically challenged seaboard:

        http://inhabitat.com/ecologist-editor-warns-of-nuclear-fukuzilla-on-chinas-seismic-coast/

        • Owen Geiger

          You could very well be right, especially since IH just leased some additional shop space that would be about the right size for what you’re describing. On the other hand, Rossi has been using words like “massive manufacturing”.

          • Agaricus

            Rossi’s enthusiasm has occasionally been some way ahead of reality in the past. Any serious accident could set back cold fusion for a long time and cooler heads will probably prevail.

            • Omega Z

              If the power is interrupted, the reactor will shut down.
              The clue to this his statement. 10kW to 13kW power required to maintain SSM.
              He operates it in the safe zone. If he pushed it into un-powered SSM, then he no longer controls the effect. It’s on it’s own & can either drop out & the effect terminates or it could go into runaway.

              From what we’ve observed, a runaway can be safely contained.
              Tho Economically, this could quickly become unsustainable.
              From a business point of view, It would definitely spur repeat sales.

              • Agaricus

                If removal of externally-fed power input causes the CF reaction to die down then by definition it isn’t ‘self sustaining’. To me it seems more likely that an oscillating EM field needs to be maintained at all times, with the control system varying the frequency to amplify or suppress the CF reaction as required. Hence the need for a constant external power supply.

                The may imply a balancing act in which the CF reaction is unstable, and is actively damped down at times when it is drifting towards runaway and also kicked back into action when it begins to die away. If so then loss of power at a point where damping is required might not result in a fail safe condition.

        • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

          Darden will continue to put a premium on legal protection, patents, etc. This will slow things but if the 1 year test is perceived as a success then replication/research activity will explode, putting external pressure on IH to get on with it.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        I think there are two things to consider. The first is Industrial Heat and Leonardo Corp. With a successful test under their belts they will likely move into their next phase which will involve some, maybe a lot, of manufacturing of 1 MW plants. I predict this will be a lot slower than we would all hope. Darden seems to put a premium on legal protection. And because that’s how it always goes in the LENR world.

        However, the second thing to consider is the Lugano effect x 100. With the Lugano report, interest spread across the world and numerous labs took up the challenge. Rampant skepticism has been replaced by cautious curiosity. You know lots of people are watching this. If the test is reported to be successful and there’s decent corroboration, then interest will explode and the walls will drop even further.

        There is a limit to how slow and cautious Industrial Heat can be in this scenario.

    • georgehants

      LENR G, don’t forget the reality that those against, almost free energy for all, are still running our governments, media, science etc.
      They can still slow progress to a snails pace with safety legislation etc. etc.
      Money and power rule and until these guys have their hands firmly in the till they will do anything to protect their parasitic positions.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        A concern for sure. But there may soon be too many cats to herd.

      • Agaricus

        This is a serious consideration. Witness how in the UK, Cameron and Osbourne have methodically killed in turn, tidal power, onshore wind power and now solar power, in order to keep the field clear for their agenda-driven ‘nuclear renaissance’.

        • georgehants

          Peter, LENR G, I am cheering on the Russians, Chinese or anybody that will free Cold Fusion to the World as soon as possible.
          Peter we I think grew up being proud to be British, now it has become a non-caring corrupt rich-mans paradise.

          How long would Cameron wait in a hospital A&E?
          With a very wide knowledge of history and personal awareness of the suffering in the World, all this delay with Cold Fusion, for nothing more than profit and power for the few drives me crazy.
          I live in a ridiculous dream of that Utopia where everybody shares and cares, As long as I have my Valium I am OK.

          • Agaricus

            Hello George. I prefer alcohol, but same principle.

            • William D. Fleming

              Interesting idea. Can you disinfect a glass of water with alcohol?

              • US_Citizen71

                The Romans did it with wine for centuries.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posca

              • Omega Z

                Unsanitary water has always been an issue throughout history.
                It’s the reason so many imbibed in alcoholic beverages in history. They new water could be bad even tho they may not have known exactly why.