US Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) Presentation on LENR

An interesting presentation has been uploaded on the LENR-Forum which was given by Louis F. DeChiaro, Ph.D, a physicist with the US Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA), Dahlgren Warefare Center. The presentation was given at a IEEE Meeting on “LENR Phenomena and Potential Applications” held on Sept. 23 2015 at Teradyne in North Reading, Massachusetts.

The full slideshow can be accessed here:

For people who have been following LENR closely over the past few years, there will not be too much new information in the slideshow. It is mostly a review of what has been happening in the field from the time of Fleischmann and Pons up to the present, but it’s interesting to see a scientist with the US Navy openly sharing research on LENR, and obviously taking the subject seriously. Below is the concluding slide.


  • Omega Z

    COP isn’t the proper term, but it’s reasonably suitable for the purpose.
    Technically, Pin/Pout is a more accurate term.

    • Term is not very useful scientifically, but it is popular for 2 reasons :

      1- for engineer, associated with the temperature it can give a hint if with a thermal engine you can self power the reactor with electricity it produce.

      2- most important is that small COP let the skeptics say that there is errors in Pin, Pout, leaks, hidden wires…

      if you have infinite COP, no Pin, then the skeptics have to find something else to criticize.

      if COP is huge, this demand for the skeptics to imagine conspiracy theory with inverted current clamps, …
      badly placed TC, slight errors, ambient temperature change, cannot explain a COP of 2…

      anyway scientifically what is important is the energy produced and the precision of the measurement compared to it’s uncertainty (the sigma).

      but this basic fact is mostly ignored since, skeptic find nothing to criticize there, and since most are naturally or willingly incompetent on anything that does not support their point.

  • Jarea

    In one of the photos you can see DeChiaro presenting one of the slides of the presentation with the NavSea logo.

  • Sanjeev
  • GreenWin

    Tom, initial research indicates the acronym RASO refers to “Radiological Affairs Support Office.” This may have been used as a reason to shut down plain sight SPAWAR cold fusion research. On November 9th, 2011 following Rossi’s successful 1MW demo in Bologna, Rear Admiral Patrick Brady, commander of SPAWAR ordered LENR research halted.

    25 years data acquisition indicates LENR emits little or no ionized radiation. Brady’s order was probably a cover to direct LENR into the black. To its great credit however, we have NAVSEA confirming their part in LENR revolution. Without these good scientists (e.g. Pam Boss, S. Szpak, L. Forsley, F. Gordon, et al) we would not be where we are today. Thank you U.S. Navy.

  • Observer
  • GreenWin

    Roger, re-read the quote to answer your question. Everyone is potentially valuable. The choice to exercise value is that of the individual.

  • mcloki

    I took the repeatability to mean that if they people tried to repeat it eventually they would be able to repeat the success, after tweakig thier experiment.

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    I read through the entire presentation and I must say I am pleasantly surprised. Especially since it is being publicly distributed. Someone feels they have enough evidence to put forth a coherant defense against any detractors. Granted the Spawar co deposition results alone are enough to defend the stance taken on this presentation. That said, the really interesting question is asside from the spawar results; did the presenter do a deep dive on the other evidence in his slide deck. Or is this simply an aggregation of results.

    I would be even more of a “big freaking deal” if they deep dived on all of the points raised and found they were all consistent with their claims.

  • catfish

    this is a big freaking deal. huge.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Who is planning to build LENR propulsion systems into vehicles for sale to the public?
    I seem to have missed that reference.

  • Billy Jackson

    probably the most convincing to me .. and shocking was goatguy on nextbigfuture he was adamantly against this technology and has openly switched his stance to curious and a possibility.

    • MasterBlaster7

      Yup. He is a rational skeptic.

  • Curbina

    Another important document being associated with and official branch of a government agency (if US Navy can be called such), but will be taken by skeptopaths as “coming from a LENR Believer” so I’m not holding my breath.

    • kdk

      I’m hoping all of this material will finally help to educate the people who have had a closed mind about it w/o looking but don’t have a whole lot psychologically invested in believing it’s not real.

      • Curbina

        The problem is that people that invests the time necessary to know about a controversial subject is scarce, and most people won’t skip a beat to read about LENR until some annointed guru gives the nod. We have to be aware we are a thin minority of the general public.

  • Agaricus

    The Pavlovian naysayers have too much invested psychologically to admit to error (or even to the possibility of error), regardless of the ever-increasing evidence that CF is a real, exploitable technology. The longer the run-up goes on, the harder any reversal becomes for them.

    The phrase ‘painting yourself into a corner’ springs to mind.

  • Sanjeev

    I think you are right. The comments of skeptopaths almost feel like coming from a person either full of self delusion, a sick sense of superiority complex or even worse, a deep hatred. The madness and violence in their insults and attacks is most obvious. Reading them leaves an ordinary person disgusted, angry and depressed. I highly recommend not feeding them.

    • GreenWin

      This definition seems reasonably accurate:

      “Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people
      have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for
      admiration and a lack of empathy for others.”

      • Agaricus

        Normally I would distrust any described ‘psychiatric disorder’, but as you say, this one seems to accurately describe a particular type of individual encountered in ‘real life’ (mostly in executive/management roles, and in politics). It certainly sums up the personality type that currently dominates ECN.

    • it is normal behavior, maybe like war crimes (abu grahib, stanford prison experiment, milgram experiment…), like paradigm change opposition, groupthink, …
      Personal history, local incentives, surrounding network, is the problem.

      Heros and monsters, smart and stupid, mostly emerge from noise.

      I believed in LENR because
      – I was busy to get my diploma in 89
      – I was trained in semiconductors
      – I had access to internet and found cold fusion archive
      – I receive a book on “the atom” when aged 8, and read French SciAm since teenager
      – I found a science encyclopedia when kid, dated 1930, so I know that science evolves.

      Otherwise my position is mostly very conservative, anti pseudo-science, pseudo-medecine, evidence based, with a sensible BS detector.

  • Billy Jackson

    Every generation hopes to leave a world better for their children than the one we inherited. For the first time every my generation was poised to fail on that promise. We have trashed our world. devastating its forest, poisoning our waters, and leaving the discarded waste of our civilization behind rather than act as overseers for those who come after us…

    For the first time in a very long time i have a ray of hope that we might be turning a corner to an age greater than our own. One where energy technologies like LENR and Rossi’s E-cat provide the base for vertical farming, easy transportation, where 3d printing eliminates manufacturing procedures who’s caustic processes cause massive pollution. Where graphene provides clean drinking water through desalination. As LENR charged batteries provide 1000’s of miles of non polluting vehicles for our use that are not harmful to our environment. Where a combination of the EMDrive and LENR open not just the solar system to exploration but potentially an age of abundance as the resources available off-planet become accessible to us..

    We are not there yet.. and may not be for quite some time.. but there is hope

    • tchernik

      The availability of dense, cheap, safe portable energy will change everything. Cars running for thousands of miles for cents of fuel. Houses powering themselves cheaply, safely and redundantly. Finally affordable water desalination (no more suffering from droughts). Robots running for weeks or months on a single charge (finally achieving heir potential thanks to not requiring to be near a power outlet all the time). Affordable VTOL airplanes. No more CO2 from the huge cargo ships crossing the seas.

      Simply put: no more oil, no more electric grids, no more hydraulic despotism and resource wars, no more grasping at the scraps of the energy barrel.

      Even leaving things like the Emdrive aside, we can say that now, for real, The World of the Future is upon us.

      • Jarea

        Nice inspiring comment!

  • mcloki

    100% repeatability. That ends the discussion right there. Now all that’s left is continual improvement of the COP {20-80) and the output. What’s the upper limit of COP?

    • MasterBlaster7

      upper limit of COP is 200 ish

      cop 10 = 90%
      cop 20 = 95%
      cop 100 = 99%
      cop 200 = 99.5%

      so cop 10….you put 1 unit of energy in you get 9 back. Like that.

      • mcloki

        Thank you.

    • Ophelia Rump

      A large and very powerful explosion where all the energy is released at once is the upper limit to COP in general, any COP up to full instantaneous release is possible in theory.

      Given the amount of energy which the fuel can release, the upper theoretical limit is astronomically high. It exceeds the billions.

    • Axil Axil

      The initial part of LENR is all chemistry up until the LENR reaction is produced. After this reaction has been produced, it’s all physics. Producing that chemical reaction is a delicate dance that needs to co exist with nuclear reactions of all kinds. This is tricky to pull off.

      Life is also a chemical reaction, Is it a sure thing to produce life from a pile of chemicals? Not every body can do it with chemicals.

    • Omega Z

      Once you exceed COP>20, you’ve reached ever diminishing returns.
      COP=20 is 5.0w (IN) & 100w (OUT)
      COP=40 is 2.5w (IN) & 100w (OUT)
      COP=80 is 1.25w (IN) & 100w (OUT)
      It becomes a question of benefit of meager gains verses the complexity & risk of reactor runaway to obtain higher COP.

      An alternate approach of gain may be in the high temps of the Ht-Cat. With 800`C to 900`C steam output may enable a 50% heat/electric conversion. This would be a Hugh gain. In stead of 3.33kW/h to 1kW/e conversion, you’d get 2kW/h to 1kW/e.

  • GreenWin

    Navy has likely moved on to next-gen CNT-based reactors. Next-gen LENR will seldom need the Ni lattice, replaced by manufactured geometry. This is the revolution. There are some thirty reasons to see this come to light.

  • Billy Jackson

    can you feel those scales tipping? I know i do. where are all the naysayers now? the arguments against LENR & Rossi are starting to find some pretty hard walls to scale 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      Never underestimate the ability of pathoskeptics to come up with a ridiculously moronic reason to deny such evidences.

      • timycelyn

        Indeed – it is a fundamental part of their MO.

        I know it has been linked here before, but a couple of days ago I rediscovered the excellent paper by Sarah Vaughter analysing the different psycologies of this irrational behaviour.

        For those that have either half forgotten it (like me) of didn’t get to see it the first time, I strongly recommend:



      • last joke by Mary… Moscow university did not do flow calorimetry…
        not enough to measure 2x more heat production with dozens of degrees of change…
        I’m tired.
        They remind me the japanese government arguing for the status of the emperor as divinity after Hiroshima, and even worst after Kobe.

        • Sanjeev

          I told you so :-D. never underestimate.
          The pathology is obvious here. Just ignore.

  • orsobubu

    Louis F. DeChiaro was awarded the Ph.D. Degree in Physics in 1979 from
    Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey. From 1979 to
    2002, he served as an Electronics Engineer / researcher in the
    telecommunications industry at Bell Laboratories and Telcordia
    Technologies, retiring in 2002 as a Distinguished Member of the
    Technical Staff. From 2002 to 2006, he served as an Associate Professor
    of Computational Science and a founding member of the new Computational
    Science Program at The Richard Stockton College of New Jersey. He
    joined the US Navy as a civilian Physicist in September, 2006 and since
    2009 been performing investigations in LENR physics and supporting the
    EMC efforts of Branch Q51 at the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren,
    VA. During the period 2010-2012 he was on special assignment at the
    Naval Research Labs, Washington, D.C. in their experimental LENR group.
    Dr. DeChiaro is a member of Tau Beta Pi.

    • blanco69

      Great summary! Thank you. I would say though that, if Prof. DeChiaro has been full time on LENR effectively since 2009, you’d think he’d come up with a bit more than a summary of what everyone else is doing. Six years is long time to work on your Powerpoint slides.

  • Gerard McEk

    Yes, indeed an interesting piece. Especially the fact that a military research centre has done this indicates that LENR is being followed carefully. However, because it has been issued for unlimited publication, it seems to indicate that the military community does not see that LENR can give them an advantage. Or maybe there is some ‘strategy’ behind this…