Rossi Promises a Revolution in the Production System (Larry Jameson)

The following post was submitted by Larry Jameson

A comment and response from the Journal of Nuclear Physics yesterday:

Dr Andrea Rossi:

The National Research Laboratory of the US Navy has published a report in which implies you are the leader of the LENR and cites a long list of potential future competitors of Leonardo Corp. Which of the list you think is more likely to be able to compete with you in the future?
Thank you,
Anonymous

Andrea Rossi
October 3rd, 2015 at 4:42 PM

Anonymous:
As you know, I never comment the work of our real or virtual competitors. Obviously we will have competitors: this is the reason why I will put Leonardo’s products on the market only when our production will have the economy scale necessary to make close to impossible, if not totally impossible, compete with us. You have no idea what I am inventing (F9). It will be a revolution in the production system.

Warm Regards,
A.R.

F9 – refers to Rossi’s standard disclaimer which is “if the results of the one year test are positive but could also be negative”.

Rossi’s Blog: http://www.rossilivecat.com/

I wonder what he might mean by this. Is he referring to flooding the market with his tech or is he referring to some new pricing model for energy or is he referring to possible direct electricity production from the E-Cat X

It sounds exciting whatever it is, almost diabolical, mwah ha ha!

Larry Jameson

  • GreenWin

    Wait just a minute. You don’t mean Waste Management Company founded by Wayne Huizenga?? Why would Wayne wanna control waste 2 energy??? Oh… Nevah mind.

  • Brent Buckner

    We have been told that IH has rights respective of China and the United States. In light of the respective regulatory regimes, I would not be surprised by a plant in China that would first supply units for installation within China.

    On a value-per-kilogram basis I’m not sure that shipping costs from China to the U.S. would be prohibitive (especially if any required shielding were incorporated at installation sites). Based upon China’s WTO membership I’m also not sure that tariffs would be prohibitive.

    Perhaps IH and Leonardo plan different approaches for their different geographic distribution areas, and much of what we read from Rossi is respective of his plans for Leonardo.

  • ss dd

    Maybe he will use an e-cat to power his production plant!

    • Owen Geiger

      Wow, that could be it. The way he used the word ‘revolutionary’ implies something beyond robotic production lines, which are fairly common these days.

  • Bob Greenyer

    His wafer design lends itself to continuous manufacture – but that I mean the four layers of 1mm steel, fuel, mica and heater layers can be coming of rolls – Cut, crimped and welded continuously.

    • Omega Z

      That sounds very similar to Lithium battery production. The cheapest way to manufacture them, but still not cheap.

  • Bob

    I restate state my opinion….. “I will put Leonardo’s products on the market only when our production will have the economy scale necessary to make close to impossible” is a folly. (Or that we will never see the Leonard Product) Industrial heaters are NOT that high a volume of product. So there is not enough market to even require a mass production. Yes, there is a lot of requirements, but often they are not one single model, requiring many options. Not lent to mass, mass production. Home Heaters are more mass commodity products, but Rossi is not talking about these. He is talking about Industrial Heaters. There is NO mass market for a single model unit. Is he stating he will not reveal the 1mw plant until home units are on sale?
    .
    Ford Motor Company revolutionized high volume mass production. Ford was very successful. Ford still had MANY competitors and within 10 years, market share was a war of price, innovation and quality. Mass production was not nearly enough to capture the market.
    .
    This is nonsense about becoming the premiere mass production specialist in the world. Concentrate on making the eCat work and be reliable.

    • Omega Z

      –>”Industrial heaters are NOT that high a volume of product.”

      WOW, You Really don’t know how things work.
      Nearly everything around you involved the use of heat. From the food you eat, the clothes you wear. The flooring material in your home to the fabric on your furniture and everything used to build your home. Much of it was processed with heat at multiple stages.

      The market is huge. It would also require only a couple variations. Low/Medium/High temp systems would cover most all needs. As to scale, that merely requires adding additional modules. Like a N-gas furnace, just add additional burners. 2 burners provide 40k Btu and 6 burners make it a 120k Btu. About 20K Btu per burner depending on who’s tech.

      As to Rossi, if you follow JONP, you would know he expects competition. However, if their priced cheap enough, Many will just license IH/Rossi’s technology. It’s simple economics. How much time & millions will it take to create their own technology.

      As to those who would reverse engineer the E-cat reactor, Only to gain an understanding. They will not copy it because it is covered by patent. They will try & create their own technology.

  • Omega Z

    Robotic assembly lines. Once setup, requires very little time to start full manufacturing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjAZGUcjrP8

    • ecatworld

      Frank Acland
      October 5th, 2015 at 9:19 AM
      Dear Andrea,

      Do you have anything like this in mind for your E-Cat production? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=41&v=sjAZGUcjrP8 [your link, OZ]

      Andrea Rossi
      October 5th, 2015 at 9:48 AM
      Frank Acland:
      Something like that, but better.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • pg

    The Navy story might be a fake.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ian.walker.7140 Ian Walker

      Hi all

      I am presuming it came from the IEEE event at Teradyne https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/35303 but I too would like to see confirmation from the author, a matter for the attention of Frank Acland 😉

      We know the US Navy has had a black budget LENR project for some time, anti Rossi character Mr. Krivit may have lost his security clearance because he reported on one of their conferences a while back, seem to remember him being castigated for it.

      Other unconfirmed sources put the US Navy black budget for LENR research at $7 Billion. We know that they have an LENR team because some of their research papers and their patents are now public knowledge. Only those who still have a seccurity clearance will know more.

      Kind Regards walker

      • ecatworld

        Although it has been rumored, as far as I am aware there has never been any confirmation that the US Navy was the military customer who got an early E-Cat plant.

        • http://www.facebook.com/ian.walker.7140 Ian Walker

          Hi all

          Some of the US Navy’s LENR research before they went dark is available here:
          http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=952

          Other bits turn up on the internet and in publications from time to time.

          Kind Regards walker

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      I got the slides via paul mahler confirmed by Albert Opdenaker
      of DOE (at least he controls a DOE mail address)

      no news about navy working on LENR… an old story.

      • Jarea

        An email in a slide can be changed.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          to spoof google sendmails is much harder.
          nothing new in those slides, and the LENR commitment of deChiaro and Opdenaker is nothing new.

  • Gerard McEk

    No doubt Rossi’s first plant is build in China. Maybe not fully automated and cheap working force. Somhow I think he may have started to build the plant and manufacturing equipment of the plant with the money of the investors. By now he, IH, Woodward must be convinced of the potential of the 250kW units. I think they ar already building the Ecat manufactoring plant.

    • Jonnyb

      It could be anywhere not just China, I would suspect Europe and the States and highly automated.

    • Omega Z

      Gerard
      I think plans are in the works, but I doubt anything will be started until after the 1 year test is concluded & the results consolidated. There are to many issues that aren’t conclusive until then as far as final business decisions are concerned.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Like a customer who now knows he can reduce his cost for heat to a fraction of what it was before? If the results are as positive as Rossi has been intimating, they are proceeding full blast into production.

        • Omega Z

          I imagine a lot of preliminary investigation has been done as to robotics & various farmed out components for the product. I highly doubt any physical action has been taken nor will it be until after the test has been concluded.

          Many will be interested in this technology, but they will also want some sound answers to their questions. These answers wont be known until after the test is done & fully analyzed. This is precisely why Rossi is stead fast on the (F9). Even if he has his opinions, they are not yet fact.

          There’s a reason they created a 1 year protocol for this test. To determine if it is commercially viable. Merely saving on the energy bill doesn’t make it so. No one is going to invest large sums into a manufacturing facility until they are certain.

  • Omega Z

    Roll it Back!
    People already take issue with Rossi’s sometimes overly optimistic timelines. We don’t need to add to that.

    “Rossi Promises a Revolution in the Production System”
    Where does Rossi Promise- How many will hold Rossi responsible for this statement?

    This is what Rossi actually said-
    (You have no idea what I am inventing (F9). It will be a revolution in the production system.
    Warm Regards, A.R.)

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=4#comment-1122737

  • EEStorFanFibb

    the navy research labs did what? is this common knowledge?

    • SG

      Would also like to see a link to the Navy report if anyone is aware of one.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I think he is just planning on an unprecedented production volume. IH can mass produce factories. Being global as we know the plans are, there could be many production sites planned.
    Production becomes less expensive with volume and Rossi has already said that there are Billions of dollars in pre-orders expected.

    Dr. Rossi has clearly stated that there will be a revolution in the production system. I believe that this can only refer to an extremely high level of automation.

    • LookMoo

      When it comes to production Mr. Rossi have been somewhat less accurate. 2012 he predicted that 2013 he should make several thousands of the ecat-containers. I think 1 was manufactured ??

      A new robotised factory is not cheap and requires instillation and calibration as well as specialized training of staff. ASEA and other robot manufacturer have their order book full and needs something like 12 months to supply the robot hardware.

      The logistic software required to keep track on all orders coming and going, export and tax documents also needs to be in place.

      What Mr. Rossi is drawing is not less complicated than a car factory.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi timelines. Being either overly optimistic or pessimistic is human nature. Even when I’ve been lucky enough to meet a deadline, it seldom went off without a hitch. Ultimately, what matters is that progress is being made.

        When Corporations like Apple who have a product ready for market 6 months ahead of launch, they usually find that at the last minute, they weren’t really ready. Recall Apple Maps navigation would land you in the middle of a lake among other issues.

        When tackling a Task, I always try & do the hardest part of the Task 1st.
        The rest is easy. NOT. I’ve learned that Easy can sometimes be very hard. Timelines, deadlines are hard to meet.

        “Rossi Promises a Revolution in the Production System”
        http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=4#comment-1122737

        Where does Rossi Promise- How many will hold Rossi responsible for this.
        (You have no idea what I am inventing (F9). It will be a revolution in the production system.
        Warm Regards, A.R.)

        • Freethinker

          The last 10% somehow always seem to take 90% of the time….

          • Omega Z

            “The last 10% somehow always seem to take 90% of the time.”

            You Optimist you…
            🙂

        • Rene

          SG, on that link, since that report has NavSea logo pasted on all the pages, I decided to check. I cannot find any reference to it from the http://www.navsea.navy.mil site. I’m a bit worried about its veracity.

          • Jarea
            • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

              you make a good point. 8)

              I can only say the slides come from Paul Mahler, who say he received it from Albert Opdenaker, and someone controlling a mailbox at DoE (according to Gmail servers) with that name, confirmed to us directly that it was ready for publication.

              I agree I concluded that it was genuine.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        robots hardly ever even look like robots in the manufacturing sense.

        Your washing machine,dryer, and dishwasher are examples.

        Simply speeding up regular machines are other possible ways to reduce workforce manpower. i.e. A printing press can go 6 times as fast as 20 years ago, so a pressman job should be 85% more extinct if the demand for printing had remained the same (which it has not).

        Stores no longer require as many inventory checkers, cashiers, accountants, and more thanks to automated checkouts with conveyors and bar code pricing.

        If he is doing a robot plant; i’d imagine it as a conveyor of melted steel casting solid one piece ecats, as opposed to an army of Daleks. With the known Rossi preoccupation with recycling, I’d imagine construction will also be 100% recycled metal.

      • Ophelia Rump

        You sound depressed. Cheer up, once they have one factory designed they can duplicate the design endlessly, An Ecat is not as complex as an automobile either. It is actually very simple.

  • Owen Geiger

    Rossi loves to keep people guessing. I wonder what it could be. Sounds like he’s planning something beyond the different options that have been discussed here.