E-Cat Commercial Rollout: Leonardo in Europe, Industrial Heat in the USA? [Update: Rossi Estimates $3 Billion in Pre-Orders]

We don’t have much detail about the commercial rollout of E-Cat technology, but it appears that plans are well underway for getting the technology into the marketplace, providing, of course, that the year-long test run of the 1 MW plant goes well.

Tonight Andrea Rossi was asked if there might be a small Italian flag in the container where he was now working. Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi
September 16th, 2015 at 11:49 AM
Italo R.:
Leonardo Corp is preparing a very strong and important action in Europe, concerning the manufacturing and the sales of the E-Cat. F9.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I asked a follow-up question about whether it was fair to say that Leonardo will roll out the technology first in Europe, and Industrial Heat will do the same in the USA (licensing from Leonardo Corp.) Ross responded simply:

Frank Acland:
I think it is fair.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I’m not sure whether to take that as a confirmation, but it would seem that Industrial Heat are not are going to be directly involved in the European marketing of the E-Cat. Roger Green of E-Cat Australia has said that Industrial Heat holds commercial license for the USA and China, but not Europe.

But this does bring up a question that I have thought about quite a bit which is: who exactly is involved in Leonardo Corporation? Andrea Rossi is apparently CEO, but I believe there are others who make up the Leonardo team.
Going back to February 2012, Andrea Rossi announced that Leonardo Corporation had “become the property of a trust of investors.” This was before we had heard of Tom Darden, Cherokee, or Industrial Heat who announced their acquisition of E-Cat intellectual property in January 2014. It’s possible that Darden was involved in this investors’ trust, but we have no confirmation of that. Rossi has not mentioned this investors trust for a long time, but I think it’s likely that it still could exist.

Regardless, it does sound like there are plans for E-Cat commercialization afoot, and I think whoever is involved, a new era in this story will begin once this technology is openly operating in the marketplace.

UPDATE:

Andrea Rossi has just responded on the JONP to a question about the total amount in dollars of pre-orders he has receives. His response:

Andrea Rossi
September 17th, 2015 at 7:55 AM
Hugh Lee:
About three billions, based on the supposed price of the domestic and the industrial E-Cats, but we did not accept and we will not accept a single cent from the potential Customers who made the pre-orders until the product will be ready for deliveries, which means until the tests on course will have been completed positively (F9), our manufacturing lines will be operative and, for the domestic E-Cats, the safety certification will have been achieved. As you see, an enormous work remains to be done, but we are already working on it.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Omega Z

    Probably more of an inquiry nature.

    Whether a sale would be made would depend on many variables.
    I notice many with unrealistic expectations due to a lack of understanding of the technologies actual functionality.

    Note that some of the literature on Hydro Fusion was for 24/7 operations. That’s where it is most efficient. Otherwise, you’re dumping a lot of excess heat. It’s not so cheap if you don’t make use of it.

  • LilyLover

    I consider CERN as a jobs program. It conCERNs me that CERN does not have the fortitude for truth. BUT I love CERNists and ITERists in that, at least I get to see a multibillion dollar hologram and that they are wasting money to have a good life as opposed to engaging in murders with uniformed unconCERN or exploiting average population with 30% interest rate.
    Let the ITERnal people have family fun. I’ll go to even further extent and say… keep them at home fully paid for existing … they may at least have some fun … why even pretend to expect something out of their “efforts”.

    Minimum income for white collared, is the primal step towards minimum income for all. In the end even the thieves will be awarded minimum income. And I really wish to switch the term to maximum income… yay.

    I.e. all you need to do is test the blood – desirable lines? – right to luxurious life. Undesirable blood? Eternal Slave. If that’s how the world works, anyways, let’s stop the attacks against the “good blood” is entitled to best life as heavenly will. For works matters not, the lineage only does.

    Happy now?

  • Daniel Maris

    File under Andrea’s Faith?

  • VisionandWisdom

    What has happened to all the replication attempts that were happening fairly regularly for a while?
    Have people been silenced?
    Has their funding been cut?
    Have they given up as they don’t know what Rossi and team know?

    I still have a healthy critical skepticism that it was too easy for Rossi to give out some enticing tit bit of evidence from years old failed experiments to other the scientists in order for them to waste years on the same failed routes of exploration and allow Rossi to get closer to a patent etc.
    IF indeed it actually is what he claims it is and IF it works reliably for LONG periods of time without breaking or expensive servicing.

    Only time will tell…………….

    More replication attempts anyone?

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      the replication attent are happening, in public, and in private.
      I know some under preparation…
      I’ve heard many critics on many attenpts. it is not easy, and there is probably many unknown mistakes to avoid, and many unknown tricks to use.

      it tooks many years for Rossi to make his technology reliable.
      it started before 2009.(even before in the 90s?)
      it seems to work unreliably in 2011.
      it was still risky in ferrara with a reactor burned (scientists say by accident, rossi says on purpose)
      it seems reliable with the 1MW powerplant

      my position today is that no replication is confirmed.
      Ferrara is positive because of flawless calorimetry.
      Lugano is questionable from calorimetry,but not from the isotopes.
      Parkhomov calorimetry and thermometry are intriguing but not solid. I expect better work with colleagues and funding.
      Biberian still have nothing sure. (but he works at different temperature)
      Brian have negative (but he used different ingredients).
      Songsheng did a nice job but broke probably not 1 but 2 Thermocouples.

      • Daniel Maris

        We’ve only just come out of August – holiday season in the northern hemisphere. I would expect some more attempts to be reported in the coming weeks.

    • ss dd

      It takes some time for experimenters to adapt after the new information that came out in the patents. Secondary experiments are happening if you know where to look (hint: lenr-forum).
      Alan is testing his his new power meter; me356 is playing around testing different LAH powders and playing around with pressure while waiting for lithium powder to arrive. Freethinker has found that lithium powder creates breaches in his reactor.
      Overall we are learning more about lithium, how it lowers pressure in reactors, and how to contain it.

      So no public replication attempts recently, but several preliminary runs that are not as much in the spotlight

  • TomR

    Some information on the domestic E-Cats. Andrea says he is optimistic that people in Malta may be able to heat their homes with the domestic version of the E-Cat this coming winter. See below from JONP.

    Albert Ellul

    Dear Ing. Rossi,

    Two days ago you posted the following reply to someone’s
    question:

    “Leonardo Corp is preparing a very strong and important
    action in Europe, concerning the manufacturing and the sales of the E-Cat. F9.”

    Could this mean that we shall have the opportunity to heat
    our homes with the domestic version of the e-Cat this coming winter? Last
    winter we had the coldest winter ever in Malta. It even snowed a bit on new
    year’s eve, an event never seen before.

    18. Andrea Rossi

    Albert Ellul:

    Please read the
    answer I gave to Alexvs several minutes ago. Speecifically: I hope yes and I
    have reasons to be optimist.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    19. Alexvs

    Dear Mr. Rossi

    Is it fair answering to people who booked for E-Cats years
    ago, as you have done?

    Sorry for them.

    20. Andrea Rossi

    Alexvs:

    You have not to be
    sorry for them, because we said clearly from the beginning that:

    1- we did not know if
    and when the domestic E-Cat could be manufactured and delivered

    2- we wanted not to
    receive any money for pre-payments for any reason

    3- we made well clear
    that the pre-orders were not binding and that they would have been turned into
    real orders only after we could send a regular proposal

    4- as a consequence
    of the points 1,2,3 we did not quote any price

    Now: I am optimist
    about the possibility to hit the market also with the domestic E-Cats, but two
    disclaimers must be clear:

    a- we did not yet
    achieve a safety certification for the domestic E-Cat, and without such a
    certification we will not sell them

    b- the results of the
    R&D on course for them ( in particular the E-Cat X version) can be either
    positive or negative.

    If we will achieve
    the safety certification for the domestic E-Cat and if the R&D on course
    will generate positive results, all the persons that have made a pre-order, of
    which we conserved a complete record, will be served with a proposal and, if
    they will confirm acceptation of the proposal, they will receive the E-Cat.
    Wherever they are.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • Jarea

      Thanks TomR for that useful info!

      • TomR

        I am one of the people that have pre-orders in for domestic E-Cats, so I pay close attention when Andrea talks about them. I know that sometimes he is too optimistic but I like that. If they could happen this winter it would be a great thing. Andrea Rossi is one of few people that I trust to do what he says he will do.

        • Omega Z

          “I trust to do what he says he will do.”

          Just not always to our schedule.

    • ss dd

      IMO There’s no way people will be heating their homes with e-cats this winter. Rossi might have understood winter 2016?

      • TomR

        I would venture to guess that most of Andrea’s team are heating there homes with prototypes right now,to make sure all the bugs are out of them.

  • Rigel

    If Mr. Rossi’s tests are successful, 3 Billion dollars will be the least of his worries. While we talk about the money spent on hot fusion please remember ‘they’ are following what they believe in. If his tests are proven, he will have an entire world (1% ers) spending whatever it takes. When Einstein published his unheard of theories the same thing happened. Old Albert was not accepted for sometime until others reviewed and proved his work. AR has the same path to follow. He is the primary advocate for the new fire and will go down in history. At his age it would be a better legacy than money. But he will see his work continue regardless.

    • GreenWin

      Rigel, hot fusion scientists follow what “they believe in” because they have had little or no alternative. We have hard evidence the MIT hot fusion cabal sabotaged the results of cold fusion replications back in 1989-1990. Dr. Robert Bussard Asst. Director of the U.S. hot fusion program told us years ago the tokamak was a make work-program destined to fail.

      Now the former Director of the U.S. hot fusion program Dr. Robert L. Hirsch has written a scathing review of ITER claiming it a commercial failure. Rossi and the LENR team will not have to wait long since they are not selling a theory – but an actual commercial product. Commerce trumps academia. Academia is in for the a$$-kicking of a lifetime. Deservedly so. http://issues.org/31-4/fusion-research-time-to-set-a-new-path/

  • bob village

    Since a couple of weeks a.R. has started to give some hint about the domestic solution after years of silence. There are also hints concerning having no time to loose and his age.
    Maybe the Curiecat is only a facelift of the wafer design from the 2012 patent and some boiler companies (manufacturing licensees) around the world have already done the integration and only need to fine tune for the Curiecat design.
    Questions to speculate about………..

  • Jimr

    I would encourage people not to get too excited. If the tests go ok ( there have been too many problems with the test device) I don’t believe they will ship more than a half dozen 1 meg devices in 2016. If the problems have been minimal , Rossi says in peripheral device, but also mentioned in one response they were burnt, they may have found a solution. He could also ship containers with 5 , 250 kW units installed.

    • Daniel Maris

      I agree. This is going to take a while to gather momentum.

    • Omega Z

      I believe the “they were burnt” had to do with the E-cat X. From Rossi’s posts, it appears that they have only built 4-250kW units other then those built initially in testing this design.

      As to the problems with the 1mW pilot plant, It really depends exactly what those problems were. One of those was a leak in the system linking to the customers system. In my view, this is nothing to do with the E-cats & can & will be an issue with any system from time to time.

      We need to keep in mind that one of several purposes of the test was to find the weak points. Those would be components that may need redesigned, or different off the shelf products that are more robust. The fix for these issues would be incorporated into all future products.

    • Jarea

      You must remember we are still in the acceptance phase of the technology. No independent people were able to open and control the device at his own. (apart of Parkhomov and the Chinese replications). If Rossi deliver only these 12 devices with errors can make the great swift of the history. So i am excited! and yes i want these units out.
      Can we improve the life quality of the third world? can we save the earth?, can we explore the space? this small device enable that.

  • Gerard McEk

    Is 3 Bln the preordering quantity that has been accumulated since 2012? I believe the market will be vast, just for the industrial product and this number will be exceeded many times.

  • wpj

    Amazing and without any mainstream coverage.

    Dread to see what will happen once the one year test is up. F9.

    • Warthog

      No matter which way it goes, the crow population is likely to become seriously depleted.

      • artefact

        Save the crows eat your hats!

      • William D. Fleming

        Here’s a link I’m keeping handy, ready to be sent to certain people:

        http://www.gunafood.com/recipes/crow.html

      • Frechette

        As well as the supply of eggs.

  • clovis ray

    Here is the comment, i post it at 9:50 AM, Hugh Lee:
    About three billions, based on the supposed price of the domestic and the industrial E-Cats, but we did not accept and we will not accept a single cent from the potential Customers who made the pre-orders until the product will be ready for deliveries, which means until the tests on course will have been completed positively (F9), our manufacturing lines will be operative and, for the domestic E-Cats, the safety certification will have been achieved. As you see, an enormous work remains to be done, but we are already working on it.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • bob village

    Rossi admids about 3 billion $ in back- /pre- orders for his e-cats!

    Maybe deliverery starting this winter.

    The move is on…

    • pg

      Where did you get your figures?

    • pg

      Found it thanks

  • LION

    Hi Frank the LINK below should be -http://www.globalapolloprogram.org/-thanks

    • pg

      Not ideal but at least is better than the research on ITER and all other hot fusion crap.

  • Curbina not logged in

    I think that many clues about Leonardo Corporation are found in Mats Lewan’s book. LTI people, thats my guess about who is behind Leonardo Corp.

  • LION

    David Attenborough backs RESEARCH into Renewable Energy–http://www.globalapolloprogram.org/—-I don’t Twitter of Facebook myself but perhaps someone who does could inform them politely about the wonderful work of Andrea Rossi. HOW can THEY be so BLIND when the SOLUTION is right under their noses, they are talking about a ten year program and spending 150 BILLION of PUBLIC Money. GOD save us from our leaders.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      We (the vexed, taxpaying citizens) probably should have greater access to detailed information of HOW the 150bn of PUBLIC (read ‘nobody’s) money is spent.
      M.O.S.E. docet…
      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/venices-moses-flood-barrier-inundated-by-fraud-claims-9487916.html
      http://www.newsweek.com/2014/07/25/civil-war-venice-corruption-scandal-grows-259732.html
      Can we spot anything wrong in this picture?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_oxvQGHh3o
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rE2naFuRcM

      • pg

        Believe me, the MOSE is a good result compared to other Italian masterpieces.
        We spent 1.2bn for the Bridge to Sicily and it was never even started…

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          It was just one eloquent example… There are dozens of them, and Italy is such a perfect Byzantine judicial backdrop for drama…
          It was just to ponder how, too often, large sums of public money attract attention.
          If regulation can be sidestepped or interpreted (as the law often is, for friends), corruption and rigging at the highest level of management become quite ‘the’ way business is conducted, in the, so-proclaimed, public interest.
          My E-Cat conundrum: how is it going be taxed?
          How can the current fossil fuel and atomic energy supply tax income be forfeited to LENR and the true collective interest?

          • orsobubu

            I think that lower taxes will be required, having also the state machine lower expenses with LENR. My conundrum instead is the possibility that LENR can accelerate the unescapable historical crisis due to the trending fall of profit rate: less workers, more automation, more competition, exhaustion of new markets. Is expansion in outer space a feasible solution?

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          Post scriptum: MOSE, the way it is being built, is destroying the city of Venice, which was built on an extremely delicate lagoon environment. Water currents are being severely altered by the gigantic concrete wharf buildings that are intended for the control of the sea inlets.
          In the 1500s the ‘Magistrate of the Waters’ could face the capital sentence, were he found to act in such a way as to cause threat to Venice’s lagoon equilibrium. Today the same magistrate fights to keep the large ships ripping through the ancient city billowing black polluting smoke from their enormous engines.
          But then again, the largest Italian petrochemical oil refinery was built in Porto Marghera in the ’50s, less than 2 km from the historical city of Venice… http://www.media314.cat/programa/porto-marghera-venice/

    • GreenWin

      Those guilty of ignoring CF will use this scheme to keep their bums out of prison. They desperately cling to AGW as their reason for action. Had they actually CARED about AGW this past quarter century they’d have torn down the curtain of ignorance.

  • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

    Woop-te-DOO! 2016 going to be interesting.
    I am bloody glad I live in interesting times.

  • Gerard McEk

    It would be interesting to know how quick the home market will follow the industrial commecialization and whether it will be heating units, or heat & electricity units or both. F9 as AR always adds.