“E-Cat The New Fire” Trademark Registered to Leonardo Corp

On September 8, 2015 the US Patent and Trademark Office registered the trademark “E-Cat The New Fire” to Leonardo Corporation. The way I understand trademarks is that this gives Leonardo Corp. the sole right to use this phrase in commercial activity (in the United States).

The registration page for the trademark on the USPTO website shows that this trademark can be used in connection with various goods and services, in summary: “Catalytic converters for producing thermal energy, in particular steam, through the use of hydrogen and nickel, but not for use in the water, wastewater, or process treatment industries.”

Thanks to Franco Morici on Facebook for providing this image of the registration certificate.

usptoecat

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I get the feeling we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

    • bachcole

      I guarantee it.

  • bob village

    IH will sell and lease E-Cats for Water,Wastewater and Process Treatment beeing the sole manufacturing licensee for these segments.

    Home equipment, boilers etc. will be marketed under the new label by some other manufacturing licensees or partners.

    Keep in mind, that the coming out of IH was somewhat forced by the community.

    • Agaricus

      A guess, or insider information?

    • Paul

      Why should IH lease E-Cats for Water,Wastewater and Process Treatment, which is only a small niche, and not use them for the most common use, produce heat and/or steam for industrial processes??

  • wpj

    Some more ammo for the “shutRossidown” site.

    Could not wait any longer so have just spent £4800 on a new boiler installation!

  • Bob

    This is interesting.

    .

    The site states that Industrial units are for sale now! Gives price, terms, delivery, installation. Everything. I wonder what Rossi says about this? The photo shows the 100 reactor core design.

    .

    As far as the home units, it is very interesting that pricing and performance is also listed, although tagged as estimated.

    Estimated Price $2000-2500.00
    Estimated 6 months re-fill cartridge cost $150
    Estimated Lifetime 20 years

    .
    This is extraordinary, since to our knowledge, a home unit has not even been designed yet. Could it be this far along or is Mr. Green getting a bit ahead of himself? For $2500, I would order one today.

    • kenko1

      The site also claims that it is a Ni-H reaction that is responsible for the heat production. See the ‘How it works’ link.

      Rossi says he never got excess heat with a pure Ni-H fuel.

      • ecatworld

        I’m not sure that Roger Green always puts the latest information on the E-Cat Australia site. The video about the home E-Cat is over 3 years old.

  • kenko1

    It seems that most, if not all of the devices are ‘electric powered’ rather than ‘e-cat powered’ or a generic type of power source. Maybe the e-cat X comes into play here.

  • Observer
  • Uncle Bob

    That’s interesting. Roger Green advertises a delivery date of 2018 for the availability of the new home e-cat.
    I wonder if this is just another random date which is sufficiently far in the future so that people wont remember it when it passes unfulfilled, or whether he has been given that as a firm date for delivery by Leonardo corporation.
    I wonder if Mr Rossi could confirm this schedule?.
    Another three year wait would be pushing the limits of loyalty and in view of this, all previous promises have been confined to dates of a more imminent reward, usually around 12 months.

    • Agaricus

      The site does seem to be just an ‘updated’ version of various similar earlier ones. Without ‘COP’/gain information the ‘ads’ are pretty meaningless.

      I tried to sign up for the newsletter but failed repeatedly as the script claimed that the captcha answer was incorrect. That sort of thing combined with a gmail contact email address tends to indicate a ‘home made’ website.

      • Omega Z

        Peter
        The captcha in itself doesn’t mean much. I’ve had issues with that on multiple sites over time.
        However, I agree, Roger Green does partial updates on information he has at hand which as we know, can change.

        He shows a 2018 release date for the home unit that is probably the answer given to him as- We hope it’s available by xx/xx
        Perhaps he should adopt Rossi’s (F9) or time & estimated cost are subject to change.

  • Paul

    It is a nice and evocative name. Good choice!

    • Curbina from mobile

      A patent application filed by IH with Rossi as inventor is not good enough to reassure you that IH LLC is in this seriously?

      • Curbina

        Sorry Paul, posting from the mobile always messes stuff up. This was aimed to Bob’s commentary below.

  • Bob

    Another strong bit of evidence that IH is not the owner of the eCat and thus probably not “in control” of the technology. Unless, they have purchased Leonardo Corp and that transaction has not been revealed… which is probably unlikely.
    .
    I wish IH / Darden would make some statement. Even a simple one such as “testing is continuing as planned”. Any kind of acknowledgement of a satisfactory relationship with Rossi. According to past posts, Seimens at one time was involved. Then National Instruments. Now these major companies are apparently not even hanging around. It is hard to believe if they saw convincing evidence of such a world changing technology, that they would have walked away and never looked back?.
    .
    Such an odd drama! This is akin (and probably even greater) than the race to bring electricity to the public. A new technology that would literally change the world from darkness to light! Edison had his backers while Tesla had Westinghouse. I suppose there were some companies that were exposed to the two men early on and walked away. But those who did not, invested and surged forward with a very strong effort. Perhaps the eCat has this support behind closed doors at the moment, but the eCat and LENR in general, are seeing only “pennies invested” in proportion.
    .
    After 6 months of operation, it must be clear of the eCats “F9” status. Only the durability would yet to be determined. If Darden’ main interest is to reduce pollution, he would have seen enough evidence by now to then start putting real engineering muscle behind the development and fine tuning of the eCat. Edison may have taken credit for many inventions, but he really employed many engineers that worked for him and did much in the improving of concepts. I would think power generation from eCats would be handled similarly. Rossi may be good at LENR, but others have already mastered heat and power management.
    .
    I do not know. Strange indeed. I would think that IH / Darden, certainly Cherokee funds has a PR department. Perhaps Mr. Lewan or Mr. Ackland, being of legitimate press credentials, could make a formal request to them for a statement? They may not give much information, but it would certainly be interesting to see how they responded.

    • Daniel Maris

      I agree the lack of a statement from IH is (a) odd (b) annoying and (c) eroding Rossi’s credibility.

      • mcloki

        There is no self interest for IH to make a statement. No financial incentive or legal requirement. So what reason do “They” have to make such.

        They have no competition as of yet. Running in stealth as long as they can is beneficial.

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          presence at ICCF19 was already great commitment.

          • Bob

            Not really too great. Darden stated what his desires were… to reduce pollution. During his ICCF19 presentation, he did not confirm anything other than his interest in the field. He did not support Rossi or mention any 1mw plant test.
            .
            Later, when specifically asked about Rossi, he gave him a “thumbs up”. Which for me, increased my confidence in Rossi about 100 fold at the time.
            Yet, there was no confirmation of a secret customer (particularly independent) or even of the 1mw plant in general.
            .
            To some of the above comments. According to Darden, there will be no “stealth mode”. His stated purpose was to bring the world a technology as fast as possible to cure the pollution sickness. He stated he did not care if he was first at cold fusion or not. If true, then IH /Darden, after 6 months of the eCat producing over unity, should be on the roof tops shouting that the answer has been found! They are not doing that. So either they are wanting to control the technology (make the most money) or they are not convinced yet. At least my opinion, the reason they would start making announcements is to get start getting the public ready to accept and implement this possibly economic world changer.
            .
            It does not appear they are one big, happy family at present. Rossi used to post regularly about how good things were. That he was Chief Scientist. That he had many individuals/engineers assisting. We then see a container with one or two other people, which were known to Leonardo Corp before. Then no posts at all about IH. Only when some
            speculation to him was brought up, his response was odd. It did not have a “happy family” over tone, but more like someone’s public face during a divorce. “No all is OK. Quit asking me about my marriage” Right before the judge grants an annulment. 🙁
            .
            I really want to see the eCat to come to market. Sooner than later! With that said…. I REALLY want Darden calling the shots and thus Rossi has a greater change of getting his well deserved rewards. We will all win in that scenario. Otherwise, Rossi may wind up more like Tesla….broke and shunned and the eCat and it’s secrets lost to obscurity.

            • Omega Z

              Bob

              He said he doesn’t care if their 1st. That said-

              He IS a business man. Of course he intends to make money.
              That he can make money while helping society is just a bonus.
              ————————————————————————–
              You seem to be of the impression that this 1 year test is to validate the technology as real. It is not. Industrial heat already has their answer. They wouldn’t be running a test in a customers facilities if they didn’t have confidence in it’s reality. They would be doing singular reactor tests in an R&D facility instead.

              This 1 year pilot plant test is to determine whether it is ready for industrial use. It doesn’t matter how well it is going at 6 months. It wouldn’t matter if it had a COP=100. It will continue until the 1 year has concluded. This is a dependability test. What issues need to be addressed before scaling up production.

              If You’re an Industrial customer, you’re going to have many questions.
              Is it dependable? Is it stable? Whats the average COP? What operational issues can we expect? How often does it need maintenance? Whats the maximum energy input required? Whats the maximum energy output? Does it need close supervision or is it stand alone? Etc, Etc, Etc,

              Rossi & Industrial heat need to have the answers. If they can’t give knowledgeable reliable answers, The customer will tell them to come back when they can. In which case, they would need to find a client that would let them run a 1 year test to obtain those answers.

              • Bob

                I agree that the test must be for durability, as the question of “does it work” would have been answered long ago. That being said, the secretive nature and lack of communication would not be tied to durability testing.
                .
                You cannot purchase a home battery pack from Elon Musk. He is still under going testing. Yet, he is preparing the market with announcements of the Home Battery Pack. IH most likely would be doing the same.
                .

                Does this sound familiar?:
                —–
                Andrea Rossi
                October <28th, 2011 at 10:37 AM

                First information regarding the 1 MW plant test:

                We started regularly the test this morning . Everything is going well so far. The 1 MW E-Cat is working in self sustaining.

                Tonight I will publish the non secret report that the customer will release.

                Warm regards, I have to return to the plant. Sorry, I cannot answer to the many comments I am receiving. I will publish them probably I will never find the time to answer.

                Warmest regards to all,
                Andrea Rossi

                —–

                This "secret customer" never came to light and no report. It was never disclosed who the secret customer was, nor what happened to the test.

                4 years ago and it seems that everyone has forgotten about this!.
                .
                This is why I so badly want Darden involved and some type of communication from IH. Otherwise we could be sitting here in March of 2016 with the new eCatx being tested, the 1MW customer forgotten about and waiting for a secret customer to give them the blessing that it is OK to announce the eCatx works and the test should be done "about Feb. 2017".
                .
                Again, just my speculation. I have no other bias or agenda. I too have watched since 2011. I was encouraged when it appeared Seimens was interested, but they seemed to have walked away. Then National Instruments made an actual announcement, but they have faded away.
                .
                There have been some nice advances with the Lugano tests, but I cannot understand why the testers have went completely silent. I was really hyped about IH / Darden coming on board at ICCF19, but that seems to have gone underground.
                .
                Please do not misread me. The above were Rossi's words, not mine. I want him to succeed badly. I am beginning to strongly believe for him to succeed he must turn the control over to IH. It appears that he has not done so..

                • Omega Z

                  Rossi’s 1st customer was according to a few sources the NRL. I’ve always said you will never hear anything of this. Rossi may have intended to provide details, but I’m sure someone would remind him that no details could be disclosed. NDA. Tis the way Government entities work in these situations.

                  Have you ever signed a NDA. I have for consultation purposes & most of what it covered in my view was silly. It even included a clause not to disclose the NDA or even having had contact with them. Ultimately, they didn’t even give me the info I needed. What I had “accomplished” according to them wasn’t possible thus I had no valid reason to have said proprietary architectural details.

                  Consultation with National Instruments on best methods & components for an advanced control system. What did you read into this.

                  Consultation with Siemens with minimal requirements for Turbine generating systems. Recall, Rossi having 200`C limitations with the E-cat technology at the time. However, shortly after that, Rossi had a breakthrough and his temperature limitations became the melting point of Nickel. Rossi never said they were business partners. What others views were is not his.

                  Has Rossi misspoke or made premature statements. No doubt & you even complain about this. Now that he says much less, Again you complain about this. ? ? ?
                  —————————————————-
                  Lets talk about the Elephant in the room, Industrial Heat. They’ve invested Million$ into this.

                  Do they have confidence in this technology. Obviously, you’re not going to be happy or believe they do until they make a grandiose public statement. Don’t hold your breath. This could be a long time coming. At the present, there really isn’t anything to announce anyway. It’s still in the R&D phase until it’s ready for scaled up production.

                  I look at what they are doing. They have Their people working along side Rossi both inside & outside the container & their still funding all the R&D. They have the word of their people & do not need to depend just on Rossi.

                  And, they have recently filed for an International patent & probably have more in the pipeline. This will require large amounts of financial investments for the process & the 1000’s of hours of legal billing fees. You don’t spend this kind of money on something you have no confidence in.

                • Bob

                  I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and responses. We all have different experiences from our own histories that lend to developing our opinions on the subject. Some have actual business experience bringing new products to market. Others have little. Some have much experience in science while others have little. Combined, all add their bit of spice to the pie and hopefully we get a better overall picture.
                  .
                  However, much like religion, a group of people can become blinded and ignore the facts. Both for and against something. I on rare occasion drop by ECN and am amazed about how much vile and personal attack ensues from that group. I personally do not believe in Bigfoot. Thus I do not follow Bigfoot stories or websites. I do not know why they follow eCat news, other than it burns at them personally about Rossi. Strange indeed. On the other hand, some will defend Rossi with as much vigor as they slander! It does not matter how a scenario turns out, there can always be some “explanation”,
                  .
                  In the end, we really know little, except that the story lingers on. We do not know if the NRL was involved, so we really cannot state that was what happened to the first secret customer. It is a possibility, but only conjecture. What we can say, is that Rossi stated in 2011 there was a 1mw plant, it was being tested by a secret customer and a report was due. One that was NOT the “non-secret” one. Everything else, (including my thoughts) are conjecture.
                  .
                  With a technology that is potentially so World Changing, it is odd that companies that would have a potentially large stake in this, such as Seimens, National Instruments and others would brush it off so lightly. We see companies put huge investments into wind farms, solar and bio fuels. I find it hard to imagine these companies would shrug their shoulders with a “oh well” attitude. Again, conjecture, but based upon solid footing.
                  .
                  So while my thoughts are conjecture, what I am placing my statements are the pattern that has developed over the history of this drama.
                  .
                  We have seen the secret customer testing before and how it turned out.
                  We have seen “large” companies become somewhat involved and they have all faded away. We do not really know how much money IH has spent. Really. We have heard rumors of amounts, but nothing confirmed. Since ICCF19, we have no confirmation that Darden is even involved anymore! He probably is, be we do not know. IH could simply be another Seimans or National Instruments. One or two photos of Rossi in a shipping container does not prove IH involvement or funding. The patent application was filed some time ago, so even it is not 100% proof.
                  Again, I have no proof they are not involved, but I have not seen any proof of their current involvement either.
                  NDA is the standard fall back for every unexplained issue. Every day I read an article in the news where “source remains anonymous due to information not public” is tagged. Yet, for some reason in this drama, every single person involved abides 100% by this NDA! Not one leak.
                  No, the NDA’s are not the omnipotent guardian everyone thinks they are.
                  They are a valid function, but they are not as iron clad as often presented. Also, the customer (nor IH or Rossi) would have an NDA about releasing product information or status! About the customer location, name, etc. yes, but a customer cannot tell the owner of a technology what to do with their own product! That would be like me having a NDA with Elon Musk stating that until I say the product works, you cannot publicize anything about Home Battery packs!
                  So as often, people here have differences of opinion. The only facts that we have are a few items published, such as Lugano tests, a patent, a patent application and a trade mark. We have a somewhat vague speech given by Darden. Everything else is speculative. We have ” Rossi says”, Some of which has came to pass, others which have not.
                  We have undisclosed sources, which amount to exactly that.
                  Again, I hope all is going well and that the optimistic view is reality. I am however, more of a realist, basing my opinions on what actually transpires and what patterns they form. Right now, my opinion is quite mixed and I am guarded. At one time, I pronounced to several friends that the Cold Fusion revolution was very nigh! After 4 years they are chuckling behind my back!
                  “Fool me once, shame or you. Fool me twice, shame on me!” as the old saying goes! I hope I am not being fooled again.

    • bachcole

      I think that fretting about who is in control within the Rossi/Darden circle is a pointless fret. I see them as one big happy family working together.

    • Curbina

      A patent application filed by IH with Rossi as inventor is not good enough to reassure you that IH LLC is in this seriously? https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCTDescription

      • Bob

        The patent app is a big plus. It was applied for back in February. My point is that in 7 months, IH / Darden knows with certainty if the eCat is real or not. If they are not convinced yet, then the eCat is so marginal it may be of little use anyway.
        .
        This actually causes my concern to be a little higher. After jumping on board 7 months ago, we have heard nothing. It seems a bit strange, especially with the recent posts by Rossi, which seemed a bit strained at best.
        .
        A world changing technology being tested and developed in a shipping container at a secret customer does not seem what Darden would do if he were convinced and really wanted to solve the world’s pollution crisis. I am not him, but I would not approach it that way.
        .
        But this is only my speculation. I fully confess (and hope) that I am wrong. I hope that IH / Darden is indeed very much involved and have a big influence on the business dealings.

        • Curbina

          Frankly I don’t see a problem with the “silence”. I would be worried if Rossi becomes silent.

        • Christina

          Bob,
          It’s just legalese. I’m not a lawyer or in the legal field now, but I know that if Rossi and IH made a contract for a one-year test, Rossi’s got to stick with testing one year whether or not the e-cat performs brilliantly for a new invention. So even if Rossi wants to shout form the roof’s top that his invention works, he can’t.

          Since IH has got a legal interest in this contract, Darden may be as unable to change the year of waiting as Rossi is.

          We have to be patient. This is about as hard as waiting for one’s child to be born as there will probably be birth pangs for the e-cat–especially if the world is in turmoil because of O’s agreement with Iran.

          Christina

    • winebuff67

      I find it hard to believe that IH is backing away unless Rossi is so overbearing that he is making the relationship untenable. His business prowess leaves a lot to be desired. I know it’s his baby but let’s get the cat out of the bag and the best way is to let Darden move the cat to the retail market.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      If it were not for Rossi answering our questions very few of us would even be talking
      about Rossi and IH or even LENR. There are probably two, three or more Rossis out there working on LENR, maybe even in beta stage power production, (China?) so I just cannot be too upset that IH and Rossi are not announcing production plans. Their announcements have been very logical given Rossi’s entrepreneurial tendencies.

    • Omega Z

      Bob,

      Rossi’s creation was all Placed under Leonardo Corp.
      Rossi’s granted patent was submitted pre- Industrial heat as was this trademark. You don’t switch horses in mid-stream. Especially with patents. You lose the priority date. These can all be transferred after being granted.

      Note the last patent submission was submitted by Industrial Heat with Rossi being 1 of 2 inventors of the devices.
      ——————————————————————
      What is Industrial heat. A paper entity with a shared office & mailing address with Cherokee investments. No Factories or other facilities are known if any exist. It is made up of 14 entities 1 being Tom Darden.

      What’s it’s purpose- Venture Capital firm. An Investment tool to Invest in Leonardo Corp.

      What is Leonardo Corp. A Group of E-cat technology shareholders. One of which is now Industrial Heat. The only Question is how big a share does Industrial heat hold.

      Note the last patent submission was submitted by Industrial Heat with Rossi being 1 of 2 inventors of the devices.

      This would indicate Industrial Heat has a fairly large share.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Excellent – Good for Rossi – We have used only “The New Fire” since the very start, interesting they claim first use 1-2-2014. Thank the gods that “The New Fire” is nearly an impossibility to trademark!

    • Omega Z

      “E-Cat The New Fire”

      Didn’t Rossi already obtain this in the EU along with the Logo.

      • Bob Greenyer

        As far as I can see, it was applied for 2012-11-30, two weeks after this video.

        https://trademarks.justia.com/857/91/e-cat-the-new-fire-85791265.html

        He had this earlier filing

        https://inventively.com/search/trademarks/79105490

        but it looks like it was never published or lapsed – this does show precedent thinking on this line.

        If he has what he claims – he should be using it! But as said on the subject before – it needs the E-Cat attached – there is too many uses of “The New Fire” out there historically.

        The New Fire is the right name for the technology as I have opined on before – it translates well – implies an improvement over the old fire – has many different implementations and does not contain the “N” word.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          I usually consider that it’s not a good idea to have the word “new” in a name, because the future arrives sooner than one thinks when the novelty has faded. For example Ars Nova, a music style that was novel in the 1300’s. I agree, however, that with the E-cat specifically, perhaps this fear sounds far-fetched at the moment. In any case, one alternative would be to call it “second fire”. Like in quantum mechanics there is quantisation and second quantisation.

          • Timar

            There is no need for Rossi to use this phrase longer than for the first years. As with patents, it is usual practise to file many of them and finally utilizing only a few of them.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I am not sure how man times man can reinvent fire.

            Fire 1.0 covers an amazing array of chemical reactions

            Fire 2.0 (AKA – The New Fire) will likewise cover a wide array of reactions based that yield atomic binding energy / mass.

        • artefact

          From JONP today:

          Andrea Rossi September 9th, 2015 at 8:03 AM
          Giuliano Bettini:
          Thank you. Now our trademark is protected also in the USA ( in Europe it was already).
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Great – It is the right name

  • Sanjeev

    Another step towards commercialization !
    A few people are already using that phrase and now they need to find something else.

  • http://bobmapp.com.uk twobob

    Looks like domestic is the way the E-cat is going.
    That 100 grams of nickel I bought may not need to come in handy after all.
    Still you’v gotter try even if the units are too cheap to bother.

    • Omega Z

      It will be cheaper & easier to buy an E-cat.
      Anyway, I don’t think Industrial heat & Rossi will be tracking you down if you were to build your own.
      However, If you start selling or distributing them, You got some splaining to do.

  • Jarea

    Good name, but why cannot be used in wastewater treatment industries?. I know that maybe you don’t want to link this name with that industry but i think ECAT energy can also be useful there. Don’t we discussed that the ecat energy can be used in combination with the osmosis and filter technologies?

  • Daniel Maris

    Interesting!

  • Teemu Soilamo

    A snappy catchphrase.