Infinite Energy Interviews Robert Godes of Brillouin Energy

Marianne Marcy of Infinite Energy magazine has written and extensive article about Brillouin Energy in which she has an in-depth interview with founder Robert Godes who she talked to at the ICCF19 conference in Padua, Italy earlier this year. Brillouin Energy has been seeking to commercialize LENR for a long while now, and it’s interesting to read about Godes’ early interest cold fusion and his work experience in the field over the years.

Godes’ interest started out in 1992 when he first heard about Pons and Fleischmann’s work. He relates how he says he ‘figured out the phyisics’ of cold fusion early on:

“When I heard about the Pons and Fleischmann news conference, I said, ‘Palladium—there is something about palladium and hydrogen.’ I spoke with fellow electrical engineer Steve Salkow and he said, ‘They use that to filter hydrogen and it was the PEM for the original fuel cells.’ I asked, ‘Helium will not pass through it?’ He said, ‘No, only hydrogen.’ Well, I knew helium was about half the size of hydrogen and to act as a proton permeable membrane,
the hydrogen was entering as just a proton, deuteron or triton. In an instant, I put that knowledge together with
the constructive interference of phonons, the Lennard-Jones effect, the Heisenberg uncertainty/Bose-Einstein effect and said, ‘I know what is going on!’”

Marianne Marcy also interviews Tom Claytor, a physicist at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, who has carried out testing on samples of electrolyt that Robert Godes had sent him, from some of Brillouin’s experimental systems. Claytor was able to detect small levels of tritium in these samples, which are significant because tritium is nuclear in origin. Here’s a table showing a summary of the results:


Regarding Brillouin’s own commercial prospects, the outlook still seems unsure. Godes says Brillouin’s plan is to manufacture 104 kW boilers which will heat oil to 400 Celsius. The heat will drive a Stirling engines to generate 10 kW of electricity, and also provide cooling through absorption refrigeration. But building these products is going to depend on funding, which is not yet secured. Godes says “We anticipate that, pending a significant development contract/cash infusion, we are within 18 to 24 months from the integration of our technology into actual products. Products that we are confident will create breakthrough, ultra-clean, renewable energy.”

Regarding competition in the field, Godes is quite candid:

“Funny,” said Godes, “I think the reason that we have 500 people at this conference is due to a guy who’s not even here. Rossi. You can say what you want about the guy. You can say he is a showman. People say he’s a fraud. I think he actually has something. Maybe not commercially useful but I think he really does have something”

  • Omega Z

    I’m pretty sure he did invest in Brillouin as it struck me at the time of whether this was a conflict of interest issue with all parties involved. But this was before Darden became involved with Rossi.

    However, I think Darden’s investment in Rossi’s technology was of a much greater commitment including financially. Simply because Rossi appears to have the holy grail within his grasp.

    Brillouin/Godes- 400`C temps- COP=4.
    The actual working temp will be around 240`C. Possible a little more depending on the setup.
    Proposed 104kW reactor. COP=4. Input 26kW.
    Sterling generator. 10kW electric output. The most efficient sterling generator is about 25% & 20% being more realistic. To make this beneficial, he’s depending on waste heat utilization or heat absorption and sacrificing some electrical conversion efficiency to accomplish an overall net gain.

    Brillouin simply doesn’t have high enough temps or COP to be economical just generating electricity. In the best of circumstances at this time, it would be a net zero.

    Rossi, at least COP>6, More according to rumor.
    Temperature at the wall at least 1200’C for about 600/700’C steam possible. This puts it in reasonable reach of 40%+ turbine generator efficiency. This would be seen as the Holy Grail.

    As to-defending Brillouin. I have no il will towards them nor any reason not to believe them. To my knowledge he’s not taken any cheap shots at legitimate competitors & has even offered to share his control knowledge with Rossi.

    And another point. Rossi says they intend to sell so cheap as to minimize competition. I believe Rossi, but others are also involved of which i don’t know. Brillouin as a competitor keeps them honest.

  • builditnow

    If you want to experience a tour of both Brillouin and SRI labs, watch these video’s
    You will feel like you have visited yourself, at least I did.

  • Pedro

    Thanks Mark. By the way… I checked the web and there’s still another twist to this as well… the He nucleus, being +2, atracts its 2 electrons more than the H nucleus (+1) atracts its single electron. The He atom therefore is indeed more compact than the H atom.

  • Omega Z

    Tom Darden had already provided some funding for 2 other LENR developers prior to investing in Rossi. I believe 1 of those was Brillouin.

  • Mark Underwood

    An estimate that accurate, to one part in one hundred? I agree with Pedro. It is a tactic to give the impression they have everything figured out to one part in one hundred right down to the nitty gritty details of its practical operation as a high output device. If they were at that stage where they are in the midst of successfully fine tuning a system of operational devices that was vacillating in output between 100 and 110 Kw, then the 104 Kw figure would be justified. But they are not at that stage, not even close.

    So I find that rather disappointingly disingenuous. And talk about damned by faint praise about Rossi. Godes says he believes Rossi has something, but just not commercially useful. How could it be otherwise: Godes’ implication is that Rossi is misleading us about how successfully the Ecats have been running – almost entirely under automatic control – at the factory of IH’s customer.

    I’ve always like Brillouin, but those two aspects left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

    I think Brillouin has something, and I do hope they can scale it up to be “commercially useful”.

  • Frechette

    My take Rossi really has something and Godes has zip.

    • Omega Z

      My take is Godes device has been independently tested at SRI, so it is real. It just isn’t ready to go commercial yet. The COP is still to low as are the temperatures. I would even go so far as to say that there are a couple others in the shadows that are also nearing commercial development. They just haven’t come forward yet.

      • Frechette

        My point exactly Rossi is closer to commercialization than Godes. In my book that means Godes still has zip and Rossi something.

        • bachcole

          To me, your book seems sort of biased and deliberately designed to mislead. If Godes has zip, then Rossi is merely close to not having zip. If Rossi has something, then Godes has less than Rossi, but still something; and this assumes that Godes has less than Rossi, which I can agree with.

        • Publius

          Godes is impressing some pretty impressive figures in the LENR world, which is full of very bright people. Discounting Mr. Godes would not be wise. Discounting his achievements is also not wise, because his goal is a fully engineered and controllable system, not merely a working prototype (which they appear to already have).

  • Navdrew

    From the Vortex-1 website

    Self charging energy harvesting “assistant” to use background EMF to power a flashlight that is now for sale. See: AND and

    • GreenWin

      Is this flashlight using “background EMF” including Schumann resonance? What if you used it around the Giza pyramids? Also from apparently the same organization in Russia:

      They claim to recharge their battery (10Ah?) in 30 seconds.

  • It would be nice. I have been following Cold fusion Since 89.
    When I cheered loudly and told every one who would listen,
    that our energy Ship had come home.
    It was a great year as other walls were over come.
    I first heard of Dr Rossi back in 2009.
    I then was a 99% hoper and believer, with breath held and heart thumping.
    The breath is now released and the % is now 100.
    But I have to take a pill for the blood pressure.

  • MasterBlaster7

    I used to be pretty high on Brillouin. But, it seems they are dragging their feet these days. I have more faith in Jet Energy these days than Brillouin. At least Swartz is kinda positioning himself as sorta patent troll…I dunno what Godes is doing; maybe the same.

    • Omega Z

      Brillouin’s device has been tested out at SRI with a COP=3.

      I think what we should have learned from Brillouin is that LENR is neither simple or easy & advances take much more time then we (And They) tend to realize. Rossi himself has even realized this. It is why he is more cautious about what he says & includes the disclaimer (F9).

      The only exception from Rossi in quite some time has been his excitement about the X-cat. That he wasn’t able to contain himself on the topic says it must be impressive. But he did say shortly after that it is yet to be confirmed. Another (F9).

      A Simple Fact. If it were easy, they would already be on the market.

      • JeffC

        At the last ICCF Brillouin reported a COP of 4 in their HHTsystem,

        Last November Dr. McKubre of SRI reported Brillouin’s ability to control the reaction: turn off immediately ,turn on immediately, turn up , turn down password for video is lenr

        It was reported a while ago that Darden was an investor in Brillouin,

        Look at the technical team and the location of Brillouin. Add to that the fact they were just named to AlwaysOn Global 100 Companies to Watch.
        (presented at a silicon valley innovation summit). Their patent work includes new, very specialized integrated circuits. They always seem transparent and conservative as to where they are.

  • Pedro

    Did you notice the psychological trick he plays with the to be developped boiler of 104 Kw… why not 100 KW? Because 104 Kw suggests that they know exactly what the performance will be (not 102, not 103 but 104 Kw) and therefore makes it much more real than a planned 100 Kw boiler.
    The truth is most likely that they have no clue what the final products capacity will be… they are aming for something in the 100 Kw range, but it may end up anywhere between 90 and 120 Kw.

  • Pedro

    He is atomic, H usually is a molucule H2 which is much bigger.

  • Warthog

    I have never gotten that impression at all. When the news of Rossi’s work first came out, Godes said from the start that he thought “Rossi was the real deal” but that from the information publically available it was obvious that the “Rossi effect”, although working at higher outputs, that there were “control issues”. Godes offered to share technology and work with him on the control aspect (which Godes felt he had a good handle on). Rossi, being Rossi, said “no thanks”.

    Having followed all this pretty much from the days of P&F, I agree with Godes. I think Rossi’s reactors STILL have “control issues”. But I think the eventual prize will go to one or the other of George Miley or Mitchell Schwartz.

  • If that is candid ” I think he actually has something. Maybe not commercially useful but I think he Really does have something” Then Candid is a new word for sour grapes.
    Perhaps When you have a problem with size,then that is how you think.

    • Publius

      Brillouin is a lot more transparent and if you have the credentials, you can actually go see their technology in operation. Meanwhile, we don’t even know where Rossi is located, so I think it’s fair to say that the IH/Rossi operation is not so candid.

      • Credentials I have. Air fare have not.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Would the electron moving closer to the nucleus of the hydrogen atom make it smaller than the helium atom?

    • Pedro

      I think you are confusing Godes with Randell Mills of the Hydrino theory. What Godes is most likely refering to is a He atom compared to a H2 molecule, because normally you don’t see H atoms, they always come in pairs. A H atom is probably similar in size as a He atom, but a H2 molecule is much bigger because there’s 2 H atoms in it.