Leonardo Corporation Holds E-Cat Cards

In January 2014 when Industrial Heat announced it had bought the rights to Andrea Rossi’s technology, it seemed that the days of Leonardo Corporation as the drivers of development and commercialization were over. But recently Andrea Rossi has made statements which show that Leonardo Corporation, where he is CEO, is actually in control of the E-Cat’s intellectual property and commercial strategy. I’m not sure what, if anything, has changed lately, but Rossi’s tone in comments on the JONP is certainly emphasizing the role of Leonardo much more these days.

For example, yesterday there were some direct questions about regarding the topic from Daniel G. Zavlea. Below are the questions and Rossi’s responses.

Dear Dr. Rossi,
To avoid confusion:

1- who is the owner of the Intellectual Property related to the E-Cat and the so called Rossi Effect?

AR: Leonardo Corporation

2- who will decide the global industrial and commercial strategy for the E-Cats?

AR: the Board of Directors of Leonardo Corporation, in collaboration with the Licensees on the base of their specific agreements and Territories

3- who will manufacture the E-Cats?

AR:Leonardo Corporation and the Licensees that have also the manufacturing license

4- who will sell the E-Cats?

AR: Leonardo Corporation and the commercial Licensees in their Territories

So it seems that in this multi-layered organization that Leonardo Corporation is going to be involved at every level. It would seem from these responses that Industrial Heat is one of a number of licensees, and perhaps they hold a manufacturing license as well as commercial license for certain territories.

When Tom Darden of Industrial Heat spoke at ICCF19, and gave the interview with Infinite Energy magazine, he came across more of an investor in LENR researchers, and a promoter of the technology, and emphasized that he was quite hands-off when it came to the R&D work of the scientists he was investing in. It seems that Rossi is maintaining quite a lot of independence from Industrial Heat, even though they may be sponsoring his current work.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions, such as who is on the board of Leonardo Corporation, who all the remaining licensees are, and who has manufacturing licenses. Maybe this will become clearer when the commercialization process begins, and that seems to depend on the testing currently underway in the undisclosed location where Rossi is currently working. It does seem, though, that Andrea Rossi is still very much in control of his invention.

  • LCD

    It sounds like a standard investor/startup relationship.

  • AdrianAshfield

    If Rossi had sold the IP he would never get much of a return. As it is, he will get a cut from every E-Cat sold. There maybe some side deal with Industrial Heat for them funding the current 1MW plant and providing help in his further research.

    I don’t think there is much doubt left about whether the E-Cat works. The customer is using the steam and a third party is monitoring the amount. If it weren’t working the standby 15 kW E-Cats would have been brought into operation. Then Aftenposten writes they got an expert third party report that the plant is working well.

    What is not clear is how Rossi will protect his IP without a patent. Just stating they will be sold cheaply enough to avoid competition doesn’t sound like a solid defense. Rossi is smart enough that I expect he has a plan. Maybe apply for a patent showing the magic ingredient, at the last moment before going public. He could bring a working model into the patent office if need be and they don’t believe him.

  • Steve

    Hi folks, a new contributor to the conversation here, and one that is also confused as to the wither the right to sell or market the yet to be commercially viable technology derives. I can mention that a recent email response to my expressing interest in the acquisition of several 1MW plants to both IH and LC only came back from a Peter La Terra of LC, indicating that they expect to be able to sell the plants in 4 months. A limited DD on my part indicates that Mr. La Terra is associated to the Swedish entity associated with LC. I can also state that several calls and e-mails to IH and Mr. JT Vaughn directly have gone unanswered.
    Now, granted I’m quite sure both IH and LC are inundated with requests and would have quite a chore in substantiating interest, but my messages I would think would have been quite compelling, to at least garner a response! (I.e. Power Purchase Agreements totaling 22MW from Municipalities in North America and funding in tow.)

    Additionally, I’ve requested now numerous times in e-mail and phone messages a conversation with anyone involved to no avail.
    Read what you will in this… but paint me as (at least) frustrated.

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    Clearly something has changed in the business arrangements and Rossi doesn’t want to or can’t talk about it.

    The noise about the plant has been nearly 100% positive, to include Darden showing up at ICCF and hinting all was well, full speed ahead. So Industrial Heat walking away from Rossi and Leonardo doesn’t seem to add up.

    Speculating, I think what has happened is one of two things:
    1 – Industrial Heat has found a more favorable path to commercialization either through their own efforts based on the E-Cat IP they had at least for awhile, or through a separate investment like Brillouin Energy. So they turned Rossi and the E-Cat loose or compartmentalized them to focus on heat plants while they are off doing everything else.

    2 – Despite Rossi’s positive reports and the positive background info we have received the plant has not performed up to expectations/contract (or perhaps IH failed to meet a financial target) and the legal agreement between Leonardo and Industrial Heat has been terminated for cause.

    I have a problem wrapping my head around the second one if the plant is working because the partnership seemed solid and if there were money to be made any bumps would be easily smoothed over. I also have a problem believing the first if the plant is working. That would mean that IH or one of their other partners has lapped Rossi and forced him to the sidelines. Seems unlikely technically from what little information we are given.

    So I think it’s a possibility things have gone sideways on Rossi and Industrial Heat has decided to concentrate their efforts elsewhere. That would be awful. But even then I would never count Rossi out. His determination is a force of nature.

    Another possibility is that they are just intentionally sowing confusion or perhaps they have reorganized things cosmetically to ensure that Rossi is recognized for his incredible achievements by having his company’s name be prominently associated with the technology.

    Sure would be nice to get word from IH about what’s happening.

    • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

      Rossi says this AM that people from IH are still on site at the plant as well as from Leonardo.

      Somehow the emphasis has shifted from IH to Leonardo but we don’t know why or how yet.

      • ecatworld

        Question: in the Team making the tests on the 1 MW E-Cat in the factory of the customer of IH are there both persons of Industrial Heat and of Leonardo Corporation working together?

        Andrea Rossi
        August 8th, 2015 at 7:44 AM
        Patrick Ellul:
        Obviously, yes.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • Patrick Ellul

          @ecatworld:disqus Just a note on this question that I asked, It looked nothing like that. Rossi re-wrote my question to make it answerable. Does he ever do that to you too?

          • ecatworld

            Yes, he’s occasionally done that to me.

            • Mats002

              Interesting… You are choosen by him – but he is still in control.
              On the other hand everybody make mistakes, Rossi included. Wonder what he regret and would like to change in his statements?

              • ecatworld

                He’s occasionally spammed questions of mine, too.

                I guess there are some subjects he considers off-limits for the JONP

          • AlbertN

            Do you remember how you originally phrased your question? Curious to know what part is taboo.

            • Patrick Ellul

              I asked effectively who owns the customer relationship, IH or LC.

    • Steve

      Another potential is that a larger player has entered into the fray with the purpose, (and subsequent approval by all involved) to buy out IH for their rights. IH would cooperate if the price is right and LC would also, as it could mean greater distribution, and speed to market capacity. This could also explain the silence from IH in regards to LC’s seemingly taking the lead.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        Yes, I guess that would be a best case scenario and it does pass the common sense test. Larger entities would surely try to step in once the technology proved out. Good thinking.

  • Sanjeev

    I remember Rossi saying that his partners have made an E-Cat independently, without any help from himself. That hinted towards a complete tech transfer.
    Since its now clear that no IP was transferred, the press release by IH needs an update. Perhaps only a limited know how was transferred for some purposes such as manufacturing, and they(IH) do not own the IP.

  • Eyedoc

    Why would you speculate ‘Siemans” over GE or Shell or others ??? Also who would be ‘Dardens bosses’ ?

  • Patrick Ellul

    I have just asked the following to Rossi. Awaiting reply.

    Patrick Ellul

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    August 7th, 2015 at 5:49 PM

    Dear Andrea,

    It has been over 1.5 years since JT Vaughn announced in a press release that Industrial Heat LLC had acquired “the intellectual property and licensing rights to Rossi’s LENR device”.

    1) Were those IP rights restricted to just one type of e-cat? (for example just the low temperature e-cat)
    2) Has the commercial relationship between IH and Leonardo Corp changed since then?
    3) Is your R&D team employed by Leonardo Corp or by another entity?
    4) Does IH LLC control Leonardo Corp in any way?

    It is understandable if you have to reply with “It’s confidential”.

    Thank you very much for your hard work and dedication to some of the questions.

    Best regards,
    Patrick

    • Patrick Ellul

      The question was unsurprisingly refused by Rossi. I can tell because the blog does not list it as “awaiting moderation” anymore.

  • AlbertN

    Yesterday on Rossi’s blog JONP I asked this question:

    August 6th, 2015 at 12:33 PM
    Dear Dr.Rossi,
    I am glad to hear that the repairs have gone well and all is back to normal. I have a few questions.

    1- How many of your team had to be waken up? How many had to lose a good night sleep? Hehe.
    2- You have praised your team many times. In the last six months has it grown/reduced/same in size?
    3- You have mentioned in the past that you are the Chief Scientist for Industrial Heat. Is this correct?
    Warm Regards,
    AlbertN

    My question was edited and #3 was removed. His answer:

    August 6th, 2015 at 1:54 PM
    Albert N.:
    1- two
    2- same
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Obviously his relationship with Industrial Heat has changed somewhat. In an interview Tom Darden mentions that he is the ‘primary funder’ of Industrial Heat. So he has a lot at stake. If it turns out that Tom Darden / IH have walked away then this is NOT GOOD. One does not simply discard one of the potentially biggest discoveries of all time.

    All we can do is speculate until further info is available. Maybe someone can ask Rossi or IH to clarify this but it is doubtful you will get an answer.

  • malkom700

    !!

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I want to make sure what you are insinuating, you are saying there is no
    such thing as a working E-Cat, the plant Rossi has been describing is a figment of his imagination, everyone from Defkalion to Lugano scientists, the Lugano testing itself faked, Industrial Heat, Industrial Heat’s attorneys and attorneys of all licencees, Mats Lewan, everyone witnessing the multiple e-cat tests have all been duped. If this is not your intent, please be clear.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, billH
    Not necessarily, he did have a clause that said he was to be the lead science person for H/I, remember, as well as being paid a huge amount of money. I would say he is setting pretty, in the cat bird seat, right where he belongs, I say he is the only one that can handle the pressure that the E-cat brings,

  • hempenearth

    Industrial Heat has commercial (and I think manufacturing) rights to North America and China. Roger Green has commercial rights to Australia, Japan, and assorted others not in Europe. Hydrofusion has commercial rights in parts of Europe.

    • BillH

      I checked out the Hydrofusion website, there doesn’t seem to have been much action except for the plugging of a book over the last 2 years. I did however find this link http://ecat.com/ecat-energy-cost-calculator which may be somewhat interesting, but I assume it’s out of date.

  • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

    This is very sad development.

    I’m slowly understanding why Brian Ahern ceased to do further Hot-Cat replications and why he’s sure that Rossi and all involved with positive replication results either fooled us or made measurement errors.

    All this to and fro, back and forth…makes me lose hope in Rossi.

    • Paul

      “Why he is sure…” this seems a your idea, not Ahern’s. As far as I know, he has never told or written this about Rossi or the other competitors. If you have a link to such statement, it would be welcome…

      • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

        Write him an email. It’s his oppinion, and that’s why he is silent after his first efforts of a parkhomov replication.

        • Paul

          Probably he was not able to replicate the exceptional results obtained by Rossi but discrediting the work of many other independent groups is a non-sense from a serious person, probably he’s only a frustrated scientist. like I know also Piantelli is… I understand both them…

          • Jarea1

            i agree with barty.
            It has been a long time ago and we should have had already more than smoke. MFMP has tried and tried but still no clear reproduction of the effect, at least, not to the scales of what Rossi says.
            Please, i think we should demand more facts and not just blind faith.
            Why haven´t we heard about any replication from Sweden? ,
            Why only Parkhomov and russian colleages together with the Chinesse (with not peer review papers) have been able to replicate it? Why nobody else on this world?.

            Besides, What i want to say is that Rossi has enough money ensured with his strategy already. If he has something about cold fussion, then he should release it for the sake of the society and the polluted earth.
            If he has something, then each year he delays his discovery, he participate actively in the pollution on the earth by doing nothing. Why does he want to have all over control?.
            is it all about having all the money of the cold fussion market?

            For me is very strange that something so big as cold fusion with COP (at least) >3 has not been cracking the whole world. On the other hand if we exclude pure research, what we have is a man and two company names IH and Leonardo Corp. One of recent creation without web and Leonardo created for this simple purpose. Really? No big companies here? , no big investions yet? wtf

            • attaboy

              I’m with Jarea and barty. But I’ve stated at least a few times in the past that its very strange that commercialization and utilization of Rossi’s lenr technology has not well under way by now. The world needs it so badly to replace the great damage done by fossil fuel energy. As I’ve also said, the most likely reason for the lack of progress can be traced back to protecting the interests of the rich and powerful, whether they be industrial, political, military or academic.

            • Omega Z

              Just Realize that this is not a technology accepted by the mainstream.

              I believe the statement- exceptional claims require exceptional proof is a stupid unfounded statement that should be relegated to the trash heap. Reasonable proof is all that is required with any claims Exceptional or Not.

              Unfortunately, It does appear that exceptional proof is the only thing that will satisfy the mainstream. Thus a successful industrial pilot plant is necessary. You wont see big investments until there is a product capable of real world use. If Rossi’s pilot plant is successful, then you will see movement.

              As for Rossi providing more details. This technology will require Billions in investments. Considering the Risks involved, Some IP protection will be necessary. IP that Rossi would never get if he provides to much Info. Thus, giving this info would delay any useful development of this technology until someone devised a protectable process.

              Most think Investors are just greedy & want to make to much profit. It’s not so simple. There not just concerned with making a ROI, but losing the upfront investment itself. Would you invest a Billion$ knowing you will lose all of it.

              Note: Bill Gates just committed 2 Billion$ of his personal funds(Not his charity foundations) in new exotic energy technologies. This is not aimed at wind/solar but for things such as LENR. This is a substantial commitment as of it’s size. About 3 zero’s beyond then the norm…

            • Paul

              Parkhomov and the Chinese are professional experimenters, so it is not strange that they obtain results. This does not means that ALL the ohers, more or less professional, can obtain the same results. Consider that the seutp and the powder used by MFMP is different. All this matters! Ahern cannot hope to obtain the result of Rossi replicanting Parkomov, this is also logically ridicolous…

        • Obvious

          Perhaps he should revisit his strategy. Rossi said that Ahern was the closest competitor when Ahern was doing his own thing. Building variants of Parkhomov, etc., may be going in the wrong direction. In particular Rossi mentioned his “preparation”.

          I’m not sure that Parkhomov has been properly replicated (using faithfully at least one his designs that supposedly worked). Vasilenko was closest, but used Al2O3 tubes instead of mullite (Note Rossi has used cordierite also in the past, so who knows if mullite is important).

          The furnace plan by Ahern was a good idea, but maybe the original design, flaws and all, needs to be replicated and then try new fuels, furnaces, etc.
          It is peculiar that only Asian continent dwellers seem to be able to pull it off besides Rossi. There is some possibility there is something different they are doing, either ingredients, power supply, …?

          Time to build a parameter spreadsheet/matrix and fill it in for all the failed and successful attempts to see if anything clearly is being missed, I guess.

    • MorganMck

      “Crickets…” In the future either provide a link or don’t ascribe your own ideas to others plase.

    • Omega Z

      Barty

      Measurement errors are always a possibility when you are uncertain of
      the methodology & bumbling in the dark. Especially when working with
      low levels of energy.

      However, When working with input’s of 1Kw & output of 6Kw, Error
      seems extremely improbable. An even more improbable Error would be SSM
      when power is cut off & an hour latter your still boiling water.

      As to Replication teams having trouble getting regular & consistent
      results, I would sum it up to the Attitude that it must be easy. One
      thing Rossi has been very consistent about when people mention it must
      be simple or easy. His response may be something like, Possibly it is
      easy for you. For me it is very complex. He never strays from this. It’s
      a complex technology.

      You also find the simplicity mind set here at ECW.

      As soon as someone “appears” to get any positive result, the tongues
      start wagging that within a year everyone will be building their own.
      I’ll skip the discussion about all that’s wrong with this.

      The Truth is, If Parkhomov can repeatedly replicate the Lugano test
      obtaining COP>3, it is just a start. Perhaps if he studies &
      works real hard on it for 2 or 3 years, He would catch up to the point
      Rossi is at today.

      As to MFMP & the multiple teams they support trying to replicate the
      Lugano test which includes Brian Ahern. I state this with NO Animosity
      what so ever.

      Tho they are open source & collaborative, They Do Compete with each
      other whether consciously or not. It is just human nature. I’ve observed
      multiple tests here at ECW & everyone gets a couple things right.
      But most of the test is not. There are to many shortcuts &
      deviations from the Lugano test. This is due to both impatience & of
      a competitive nature to lead the pack. I would say from my observations
      that if you used the best practices of each of the tests to date, A
      single good test could probably be achieved.

      And whats with the spectroanalysis after each test of only a few hours.
      If a test doesn’t last 7/10 days, This is a waste of time &
      resources. Any deviation is likely to be well within error.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I thought it was clear from the start that IH had licensed Rossi IP. What is not clear is what is in the contract between Leonorado and IH, are they just another licencee is IH more involved with Leonorado, like shareholders and/or board members.

    • hempenearth

      I believe IH has manufacturing rights as well as rights to sell (commercial rights). I know of no others that have manufacturing rights.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        You might be right, how do you know that, was it stated somewhere, I missed it.

        • hempenearth

          I’ve been trying to buy hot cats for a building in Australia, so I had to get clarified who I should be dealing with. IH has the selling rights in the Americas and China. Roger Green has the selling rights in Australia. I assume IH has manufacturing rights also because they manufactured for the Lugano testing and one earlier. From Hyrdrofusion’s website they have rights to sell in parts of Europe.

      • Paul

        EFA has manufacturing and commercial right for Europe. You can ask to the Swedish licensee, if you don’t know.

  • Mark D

    I lose confidence as It appears Rossi moves away from IH and back towards licensees like Roger Green. Hopeful of clarification from IH or Rossi on where they currently stand.

  • Omega Z

    Lots of speculation.

    How can IH have bought Rossi’s IP & Rossi by way of Leonardo claims to have the IP without one or the other lying.

    It’s Elementary: It is a Partnership… Rossi even said his new partners.

    Note Larry Page of Google brought in an Outside CEO to run Google for several years. The CEO was the Boss & Larry was involved at department levels. R&D and such. However, Everyone at Google new that Larry Page was ultimately the Boss.

    Rossi is head of R&D, & others take care of day to day operations, But push come to shove, Rossi is ultimately in charge.

  • radvar

    The press release is quite explicit: “Mr. Vaughn confirmed IH acquired the intellectual property and licensing rights to Rossi’s LENR device”.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html

    Not much apparent wiggle room there, but to borrow from Feynman, there’s always lots of wiggle room in the exact details.

    • ecatworld

      In February of this year, Industrial Heat said it slightly differently:

      “Industrial Heat acquired certain rights to Andrea Rossi’s LENR technology. The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development, and we are hopeful that our funding can lead to new discoveries.”

      http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/05/statement-from-industrial-heat-regarding-state-inspections/

      • Paul

        Yes, but he probably simply refers to the fact that IH bought only the right for some areas of the planet. For example, I know that, for Europe (where there were many licensees), the rights for commercialization and production of the E-Cat are still of EFA Srl, managed by a person that Rossi has often presented as his “wife” (but she isn’t at all…).

        • GreenWin

          Let’s try and not spin the path o scep speculation Paul. Fact is you and we here on ECW don’t know what the situation is, do we??

          It is however an excellent opportunity to watch the subterranean sharks reveal themselves! 🙂

          • Paul

            Mine is not a speculation, I know for sure what I wrote. I can also say you that IH bought also the rights previously held for the US by another company… Even there a few people informed on these theme in the world, some exist, and some (you should thank) write on this blog…

      • Omega Z

        Frank- Note the answer of #3
        “Leonardo Corporation and the -> Licensees that have also the manufacturing license<-"

        This implies at least 2 specific entities.
        I've posted before that Leonardo was not out of the picture. Rossi has brought it up from time to time since Industrial Heat became involved. The issue I've never been able to discern is the actual hierarchy. Ultimately, I would bet dollars to donuts that Rossi or Rossi & family members have the controlling cards. At least 51%.

        Evidence indicates at least a half dozen entities make up Leonardo. Does this include those people who made up Ampenergo. Industrial Heats papers include 14 people of which only 2 are known.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Quite a simple and straight statement “certain rights”.
        Really not any kind of a surprise at all here, nor nothing out of the ordinary in the technology industry.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • radvar

        That’s not wiggle room, that’s ballroom dancing room 🙂

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Actually, lots of wiggle room.

      Sure, so IH acquired some rights here. They did not say they
      obtained ownership of Ross’s work – there is a difference.

      Remember, if Apple decides to contract out manufacturing of their
      iPhones to some plant in China (that apple does not own), then plant MUST BE
      GRANTED the IP rights to manufacture that iPhone (even in the case that Apple
      will directly purchase the phones from that plant). In other words, the manufacturing
      plant in question cannot just start making iPhones and selling them! And yet
      that plant has acquired rights to the iPhone and IP and are legally able to manufacture
      the phones!

      So Apple only grants them rights to manufacture the phone, not necessary do anything else with that phone.

      Likely in the case of IH, they purchased rights to the e-cat, but without details or knowledge of those rights, we cannot assume that IH obtained ownership of IP from Rossi, but only “rights”.

      Purchasing IP rights from Rossi’s IP does not necessary mean that Rossi transferred outright ownership of his technology.

      To assume that statement that some company purchased IP rights to some product does not entail they obtained ownership.

      So the IP rights that IH purchased could be a VERY wide number of meanings – some in fact as above shows does not even necessary include distribution rights. They many only have obtained to rights to manufacture, or perhaps some rights to distribute, or even neither of these two things!

      So, no, it not all simple and black and white until further details are given – and since Rossi’s has given some additional details, it clear that outright ownership of his technology likely was NEVER on the table, and nothing really suggests otherwise now, or that IH obtained ownership of this technology.

      Lots of beer is brewed under license – Budweiser in Canada is not from the USA, nor is it brewed in Canada by plants owned by Budweiser.

      So Labatt’s had to purchase such IP rights and the intellectual property from Budweiser
      to brew such beer under license. But they don’t own Budweiser, and they don’t
      own the formula or brewing process used in making such beer. And they don’t
      even own the brand name either!

      And same goes for near any product. There are folks that I personally known who purchased all kinds of rights to products being sold in Canada. So someone can purchaser the rights to Caterpillar in Canada. Such a company will this get a % of sales for every bulldozer sold in Canada – even ones sold at equipment dealers across Canada (so such people owning such rights are not necessary the same people selling the product).

      I see nothing so far here that is misleading – except for those that don’t run business and are new to the world of how typical business operate in our complex world.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • malkom700

    Bad news once again because so far all our hope was in the IH.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys, i’m sure that Dr.R will clear this all up soon, could it be, that I/H, bought the ip for the l/t reactor, and Dr, R has the rights to everything else, the new hot cat, belongs to Leonardo corp.

  • GreenWin

    Tom Darden has stated his investment in E-Cat is to address air pollution. Specifically coal. He has also indicated several times he’s supporting other developers in the LENR space. And that Cherokee Investment Partners are interested in the PV/storage solution. Following his appearance at ICCF 19, it is likely Darden was inundated with funding requests from other LENR developers. He alluded to being open to such requests.

    It would be unsurprising to learn Cherokee will invest in LENR not controlled by A.R:

    “The Cherokee-McDonough Challenge is always looking for great partners
    that will help identify and fund high impact environmental startups. We
    are eager and excited to partner with Citrix, Red Hat and HQ Raleigh to
    merge our clean tech accelerator into the Innovators Program. We believe
    this will expand the resources and opportunities available to the early
    stage environmental companies we seek to support,” said JT Vaughn, the
    founding director of the Cherokee-McDonough Challenge.”
    JT Vaughn, 7/10/2015

    http://hqraleigh.com/innovators-program-raleigh-now-accepting-applications/

  • Paul

    This seems a not good news. If true, it could mean that Rossi is alone again. Anyway, I cannot understand how Darden allows Rossi to say that Leonardo has the IP, when Darden itself made a press release stating exactly the contrary: that he had acquired the IP. Hmmm, someone lies… In my opinion, this is not a professional behaviour from both the parties, they are contradict each other in public… Good luck!

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    In the same idea, the key idea of LENR-Cities ecosystem is that each member keep full property on his IP.
    Members just have access to IP at a discounted price compared to the public, by contract.

    Here it seems logicam tha LC keep the IP, but I imagine that IH have fair access, at fair price, to the IP in order to make investments, and be motivated.

    • mcloki

      There’s a ton of companies that own the MP4 IP and they all share it. This seems no different. Eventually this tech will be licensed out. It’s the easiest and quickest way for this tech to go mainstream. Everyone will have their finger in the pie. Most likely under the umbrella of a LENR standards group eventually.

  • Bob

    As I posted before…. this concerns me very much.

    About intellectual property :

    http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Industrial-Heat-Acquires-E-Cat-Technology-Opening-Commercial-LENR-Frontier.html

    Prometeon statement about license :

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/24/prometeon-srl-addresses-e-cat-licensee-status/
    I do not know what is happening, but it makes me very uncomfortable. The press release from IH seems to clearly state they purchased the intellectual property and U.S. marketing rights.
    The second link is about European licensee’s and it does not reflect well either. Prioa and Prometeon seemed to be very legit and professional. Not only they did they get the short end, the story line was seemingly misconstrued to a great deal.
    The continual drama relating to the eCat, Leonardo Corp. / Rossi with outside interests is worrisome.
    I would be really interested in what bits of information that Matts Lewan, Frank, MFMP and others with close connections are hearing in regards to the relationship. There certainly seems to be a big departure from what it was just a couple of months ago between IH and Rossi it seems. If so, not good at all.
    🙁

    • deleo77

      It doesn’t make much sense that Rossi is now saying that Leonardo owns the IP when the press release from Cherokee said that they were acquiring the IP. All I can think is that Darden gave up on the IP when they failed to get a patent, so IH is simply a licensee now. Or perhaps a bigger split took place where Darden has backed off from the investment. I agree though that if this all goes back to being just Leonardo corp it is significant, and not in a good way.

      • Observer

        Who owns Leonardo Corporation?

        This is a game of nested dolls.

    • ecatworld

      I don’t have insider knowledge, and I’ve heard nothing about there being any adverse changes in the Rossi/IH relationship. Rossi has said that the testing is going on at an IH customer site which would seem to indicate that relationship is still intact.

      • Paul

        If you see the address indicated by Rossi in the trademark request, you’ll see that it is in Miami and that it is a new unknown company registered by the same person who registered other companies linked to Rossi and his collaborators. So, the E-Cat could be in a Rossi’s facility, not in a IH’s customer facility…

  • Observer

    Did Industrial Heat buy a percentage of Leonardo Corporation?

    Are they the majority stock holder?

    There is the CEO (and founder) and there is the Chairman of the Board of Directors (representing the venture capitalists). This is the standard arrangement for VC funded start-ups.