ECW Think Tank: Working in LENR

Here’s a topic that I think migbt be on the minds of many people who are following the topic of LENR, and who are thinking that it could well be very significant technology:

How can I find work in this field? Where will the jobs be? What kinds of training/education should I get to best position me for employment in this new industry should it take off?

Right now, as far as I can tell, there are only a handful of people working full time on LENR, and getting paid to do so, but we could be on the verge of this field becoming a major growth industry.

As far as most of the wider world is concerned, the field is simply not valid, and so precious little funding is devoted to it, and for those who want to work in LENR there are no real avenues for entry in terms of employment. But that could well change, and if it does, how could one position oneself to get work?

These are some questions I’d like to throw open for people to consider and comment on. As always, thanks in advance for your thoughts.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Just think of it this way, fast neutrons gave us the Bomb, thermalized in media such as water they gave us current nuclear reactors, now sub thermalized by surface plasmon politrons (SPP) of Widom & Larsen simplified thinking – electron collides with hydrogen ions at metal surfaces stimulated by EM frequency or frequencies ( Ni / Li) give us sub thermal neutron which can’t travel very far & make almost immediate isotopes such as Ni58 > Ni59 & so on up the isotope chain giving us tremendous power Rossi has tamed in Hot E-Cats, it’s that simple folks – no great mister just a lot of hard engineering work IMHO! Jim

    • Axil Axil

      The ways that these subatomic particles and the waves of EMF all come togeter cannot be known, it just happens. When and were the neutron forms is behond our ability to know, we just know the results after all is said and done.

      • Mats002

        Like the waves at shore a windy day, they roll and smash and roar and swirl. That is a many-body equation with a lot of unknown parameters impossible to model. But some patterns of outcome can be predicted by statistics for some average inputs.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Just for the record Mats002 I did blow up (magnify) the unfueled test temperature profile on shutdown & the fueled run & there is a bit of (ssm) LENR present that is obvious to me at least. Now Wizkid if you normalize both decay curves to 100 %, that is the nonfueled case divided by 1200 C & the fueled trip case by about 900 C & overplot them, I think you will find that they both drop off initially very fast, but the fueled run runs into a little remnant of decayed heat at about 400 C or about 44%. This is exactly how heat after death appears in current nuclear plants. Now for a clean new Nuclear Plant reactor that is the unfueled analog here. It takes week/months for appreciable decay heat to build.Since Wizkid didn’t run very long nor stimulate enough (ssm) to occur, there will not be much (ssm) present in his decay profile.I didn’t have the data only graphs & my ability with spread sheets has become dismal since retiring 15 years ago but visually & with a few attempts at blowing up portions of both temperature curves until my eyes hurt, I could see the break point at 44% in the fueled run. Would be nice if Wizkid would try this exercise to make an old man happier or show me up for what I truly am. Many experimenters have witnessed (ssm) LENRs presence but just didn’t realize it nor even know it is there IMHO. I’ve said this before i don’t know the decayed heat build up time constants that’s what decay heat specialist are about in big nuclear plants, but i have used their numbers in nuclear plant simulations before with great accuracy in developing control & protection algorithms for a variety of nuclear plants. hopefully that graph by Wizkid will show the Lady LENRs presence just a little & we wait with baited breath further runs & reports & eventual control & protection of the LENR Ladies process. This development would be cake for the nations National Labs but without a directive from Smart Govenment (?) they can’t bring their magic to bear here. Thanks to Andrea Rossi’s persistent work ethic that we are finally here today slowly gaining insight necessary for our future well being.Thank you for the great test & efforts Wizkid it is a pleasure to see you operate so professionally as well as others.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Cottage life or off grid industries will boom once gasoline can be replaced by something much cheaper no matter what its form.

    Even the costs of cottages will rise.

    With todays gas costs a typical round trip to the cottage for most people will cost between $25-$50 for a single trip. This discourages cottage buyers. This discourages visiting cottage dwellers.

    Everything will boom. With lowered Truck, Ship, Heating and AC costs distributed at every level in construction of Widgets and including the manufacturing of the parts within we will see all products drop drastically in price.

    In the future a television that now costs $200 may be able to be built and sold for $100. Every nut, bolt, and screw would be made and shipped cheaper.

    The question of this article would be better as “What business would not be increased by LENR or equal?”.

    • Jan Nie

      Coal mining, distribution etc.
      Gas, fracking, pipeline building, pipes steelwork production
      Uranium mining etc
      Deep Water Oil Drilling business, Tanker Shipbuilding, etc
      plus hundreds vertical relevant businessess and et end their banks/credit providers
      in sum: Trillion Dollars businessess will sink

      • Omega Z

        This is all going to take quite a while. Most of these assets just wont be replaced as they wear out.
        Cell phones took a long time. The 1st was provided by AT&T in 1949 for a select few customers. Couple 100. They Brick became available in 79, but they didn’t really take off until the early 90’s & was a gradual expansion from there. E-cats/LENR will take decades. It’s a much bigger task then cell phones.

  • pg

    Please let s wait for a commercial product before we talk about this. From an outsider/patoskep point of view, it looks delusional and desperate. And I can t blame them.

    • Mats002

      Dear pg, what is your analysis of sport fans, they pay money to cheer their team to victory. Are they all delusional and desperate?

      • pg

        No, they are passionate, same as us, but following your metaphor,we are buying tickets for a sport that has never even been plaid, let alone have teams

        • Mats002

          Well Mr pg, someone must be first whatever the name of the sport 😉

    • friendlyprogrammer

      Was Jules Verne desperate and delusional for envisioning a nuclear submarine 145 years ago?

      Nothing… Nothing… nothing.. nothing… has EVER been created without first imagining.

      (except Champagne and the Slinky)

      Aside from that NOTHING…

    • Brent Buckner

      It may help some forward thinking folks to brainstorm and get out ahead of others in their preparations. For example, some folks right now are thinking about their college applications, and I’m not sure that Petroleum Engineering will have the career longevity that they might be expecting….

  • Nixter

    We seem to be dealing with the tip of an unknown technological super-iceberg, even Dr. Rossi, who should know the most about the Rossi effect, seems to be in the dark when it comes to the underlying principles involved. I have a feeling that the hidden substructure of the phenomenon will have a much greater impact than we think. If Axil and some others are even partially correct, weird forms of matter and other dimensions are at work here. Getting a much deeper understanding from a verified and vetted example of a working LENR device will certainly open new avenues of research and understanding, finally allowing the effect to be fully examined and exploited.

    What might follow from a more complete grasp of the effect? I predict that it will be dramatic and world changing, the sky will be NOT be the limit. If you doubt that, understand that if you consider very long time frames, technological progress expands exponentially, within a few million years a society can achieve things that we cannot possibly envisage today. If I could show everyone here an image from our deep human future, none of us would be able to identify a single object contained within it, even though it would be a common scene from that time. We are about to open a door into an uncertain future, a future that will disrupt our society in ways not easily predicted, and once opened this door cannot be closed ever again.

    In summary, there is likely more involved than most of us have seen to date. I am convinced that just about any concept that humanity can conceive, can be realized, given enough time and resources. The initial discoveries will snowball, leading to ever increasing revelations, etc, etc. Things seem to be moving slowly to us, but that is always the case at the beginning of a new era.

  • wizkid

    Hello James. Sharp temperature spikes were inserted to find LENR, but NO LENR FOUND yet . Source uses ardruino controller with custom software, optical a/c solid state switching and a full wave 10A bridge rectifier to produce DC that is used to drive the coil load.

    • James Andrew Rovnak

      Shared this with Andrea’ blog tonight & thought you would be interested. Asking if you could prepare a normalized temperature overplot of fueled & unfueled element data to check if we could see some remnants of d (ssm) LENRs (decay heat) present in your last runs. I think I have spoted some and wanted to share.

      “Andrea another one of my monologs of random thought for comments from you & blog members, only if you can.

      I shared this with Wizkid tonight as I thought I’d detected a little (ssm) LENR presence in his shutdown temperature graphs or else I’m just see things? You don’t have to comment on that statement, just save an old man from embarrassing himself again.
      “Just for the record Mats002 I did blow up (magnify) the unfueled test temperature profile on shutdown & the fueled run & there is a bit of (ssm) LENR present that is obvious to me at least. Now Wizkid if you normalize both decay curves to 100 %, that is the nonfueled case divided by 1200 C & the fueled trip case by about 900 C & overplot them, I think you will find that they both drop off initially very fast, but the fueled run runs into a little remnant of decayed heat at about 400 C or about 44%. This is exactly how heat after death appears in current nuclear plants. Now for a clean new Nuclear Plant reactor that is the unfueled analog here. It takes week/months for appreciable decay heat to build.Since Wizkid didn’t run very long nor stimulate enough (ssm) to occur, there will not be much (ssm) present in his decay profile.I didn’t have the data only graphs & my ability with spread sheets has become dismal since retiring 15 years ago but visually & with a few attempts at blowing up portions of both temperature curves until my eyes hurt, I could see the break point at 44% in the fueled run. Would be nice if Wizkid would try this exercise to make an old man happier or show me up for what I truly am. Many experimenters have witnessed (ssm) LENRs presence but just didn’t realize it nor even know it is there IMHO. I’ve said this before I don’t know the decayed heat build up time constants that’s what decay heat specialist are about in big nuclear plants, but I have used their numbers in nuclear plant simulations before with great accuracy in developing control & protection algorithms for a variety of nuclear plants. Hopefully that graph by Wizkid will show the Lady LENRs presence just a little & we wait with baited breath further runs & reports & eventual control & protection of the LENR Ladies process. This development would be cake for the nations National Labs but without a directive from Smart Government (?) they can’t bring their magic to bear here. Thanks to Andrea Rossi’s persistent work ethic that we are finally here today slowly gaining insight necessary for our future well being.Thank you for the great test & efforts Wizkid it is a pleasure to see you operate so professionally as well as others.”

      Jim

      And thank you again Andrea for this wonderful & insightful forum & discussions.”

      Jim Keep trucking you are doing a great job & I love watching your work.

  • wizkid

    It is labeled ssm SEARCH, it is an algorithm in my process controller that I wrote, not LENR activity. Yet. It works like a battleship, dropping depth charges to find a submarine. No subs found yet.

  • Mats002

    No, it is not ssm. It is just the programming to look for SSM, read again.

  • Mats002

    The reason for Mr Rovnaks news here is just below in this thread, please do not make a hen from a feather. Me too looking forward to Wizkid results, but let him tell when/if there are some.

  • Svein Arild Utne

    It is something strange with the temperature in the SSM. If
    there is no input power, I wonder how he can control the temperature. It is
    like clockwork going from 600 till 650 several times, and then one time to 900,
    and back to 600. This cycle repeats several times. In my mind he must have some
    sort of control input. What is it magnetic, pressure, heat removal or something
    else?

  • Axil Axil

    Regarding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKGZDhQoR9E

    I had just watched this informative but depressing video of a lecture given by a top man from a highly regarded school who specializes in quantum mechanics.

    With an air of genuine humility born under the weight of years of hard study, he bemoaned the fact that his puny ape’s brain is flummoxed by the weirdness and complexity of QM. He explained that over the last 100 years, a dozen different versions of QM have been developed to try to explain the rules that make up the “real” world. The world in which we think we live is just and illusion that only confuses us. There is an excellent chance that LENR is a QM process. If so being, LENR is firmly rooted in the real world. Our puny ape’s brains are ill fit to solve its great mysteries. LENR might be a tool more fit to be utilized and understood by a more advanced civilization peopled by a breed of creature who can rightly leave their footprints on the stars spread far flung like dust throughout the galaxy.

    That bodes ill for any prospects of understanding how LENR works let alone trying to develop a theory that might aid us in advancing its development. Some very strange and unknowable stuff is going on in and around those nickel particles.

    Being faced with this perplexing maelstrom of complexity, the infinite monkey solution might afford us some hope and be the best path toward advancing our progress in LENR.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

    The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. This is what Rossi has done in his efforts to develop LENR.

    , The solace that we might draw from this metaphor is as follows: an infinite number of monkeys might do this job faster. That is, if enough effort is put forth by a very large number of people, if enough pain and frustration is experienced in a massive effort, if enough money and resources are funneled into LENR research, then progress in LENR might be slowly made over a very long time.

    The fruits of LENR are just too sweet and delightful to let pass. This great study which transcends all our current powers of thought, will be a garrison to guard our hearts and minds in a union of fellowship to advance this noble endeavor.

    • Mats002

      Well put, it makes me proud to be a peanut in this gallery of fellows doing puzzle solving 🙂

    • atanguy

      Our ancestors did not understand what the fire was but they did use it.

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Mats002

    Most people interested in LENR seems to be either retired or having a good full time job, well educated and experienced in their field. At least I am hooked by other reasons than the opportunity for a new job. But who knows, I might apply for the LENR Architect, work remote from any place preferred 🙂

    • wizkid

      Been there. Retired now. Working remote on LENR for 6 months now. Seriously. Hope to publish in 60 days or so. Maybe less. (if the creek don’t rise)

      • Mats002

        Wizkid, I want to know more, can you give out some information about your work? What will be published, documents or some working device?

        • wizkid

          Hope to publish a working device. Photo documentation here:
          https://www.scribd.com/doc/269584662/LENR-Photo-Documentation

          Enjoy.

          • ecatworld

            Thanks wizkid — have you got any graphs showing input power? Thanks!

          • Wishful Thinking Energy

            WizKid, your pictures look eerily similar to my basement, strewn with alumina tubes and equipment everywhere. I’m using the WattsUp? Pro for my energy logging too. I’ve found it to be very convenient.
            I’m not sure what your graphs are portraying yet, I assume you’ll explain that more when you publish your report. It looks like you are looking for heat after death?
            Thanks for the teaser. I look forward to seeing your results.

            • Nicholas Cafarelli

              I am using the Kill-A-Watt P4400. Much more affordable than a WattsUp.

              Although it is true that a reliable report compared both to a calibrated watt meter and found them accurate. Read more here:

              http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/march-2009/appliances/energy-monitors/overview/energy-monitors-ov.htm

              Join the mailing list: http://ni.comli.com

              • Wishful Thinking Energy

                Hi Nicholas, I have a Kill-A-Watt P4400 too and used it for my initial testing. It’s a great device for the price. I upgraded to the WattsUp? Pro so that I could do data logging using the serial port. You can find used WattsUp? Pro units on eBay for generally under $100.

            • wizkid

              you are welcome. yes i am looking for heat after death in the algorithm. no ssm found yet, but I like my tube furnace and the AI controller. will publish more when appropriate…

              • James Andrew Rovnak

                Could see nothing in temperature spikes either but could see (ssm) LENR break point in normalized shutdown data which is the biggest spike of all.
                Jim
                With a little more freq content in power source & run time sure you will exceed expectations.
                Jim

                Liked your search algorithm, me356 likes the Raspberry micro computer. Would like to see someone run sweeping sine wave test on top of power signal to search out LENRs sensitivity to EM content. I think TRIAC is brute force that just works. I think Chinese recently saw (ssm) following steps in DC signal they were using. Is your signal made by chopping rectified transformer power source, didn’t see DC storage cap on you desk top? Like you Watt’s up power meter, does it give any freq content information on its measurements menu? I’ll take a look at the spec sheet again, so don’t trouble yourself – would like to see normalized plot of just shutdown temperature decay with time.

          • Svein Arild Utne

            Wizkid, this was very interesting reading. On page 5 you
            mark one curve with Temp(K).

            Maybe it should be Temp(C)?

            I was surprised to see you got SSM between 600-900 degrees Celsius.
            If you could comment about the spark in temperature during the SSM, it would be very good.

            • wizkid

              Hi Svein, yes it should be marked Temp(C).

  • blanco69

    Seems to me that, if the technology is valid, the job skill sets are already in place. If, in 5 years time, you work in LENR then you’ll be an engineer or a production line worker rather than a white coated boffin creating magic in a lab. I’ve seen nothing in the past 4 years to make me consider that LENR is what we’d class as high tech.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    To avoid a repeat of the last quarter of a century, there must be a reranking of the worlds universities based on if they enabled or impeded the progress of LENR.

    Real rankings, no more of the gold plated tungsten rankings that they give themselves.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    see what happened with telecom.
    First there will be some scientist and engineers that wil mostly change of work from dead tech to LENR… oild corp will adapt.
    There will be engineers trying to adapt their technology (cars, cargo boats, planes) to LENR… much work…

    there will be old workers in sales and installations of various technologies that change.salesmen of cars, installators of boilers.

    the value saved from old energies will be reused to create new jobs on leisure, travels, luxury, telecom, gadgets, appliance, housing, sport…

    then the change in the structure of energy production will disrupt many markets, creating unthinkable applications, like Uber…
    It will also foster innovation in many technology…

    why not a UberPop market for energy.
    why not bot cars..

    it may push many revolution like development of tunnels, end of city highways and big roads…

    • gdaigle

      I suspect that once we arrive at the point of online vendors supplying refilled E-Cat cartridges, much like how markets arose for refilling printer ink cartridges, we will know that we have reached product maturity and ubiquity. I have been following LENR as a model of how new technological breakthroughs closely tied to “new” physics make their way through society because there are other potential physics breakthroughs that could provide even more disruptive in the next few years. I am learning much from LENR and E-Cat World on how to anticipate the growing information distribution around new technologies.

  • John

    The most hungry countries for this technology will be the poor ones. Forget europe usa japan australia and other rich ones because they will do all they can do to delay the implementation. So my first advice, prepare to travel a lot as field engineer… Learn spanish and portuguese asap french for the african countries and arab

    • mcloki

      The market for jobs follows the money. If LENR can provide heat and or electricity for less than Solar it will start to make big inroads. Engineering and 3D manufacturing is where i would concentrate for future jobs. Rossi E-cats will be 3D printed not machined.

      • Axil Axil

        I doubt that a high temperature supercritical steam plant can be 3D printed,,,let along a plant that generates electric power.

        • mcloki

          I don’t know. I thougth that as well. But I just saw a video of a 3D printed rocket engine and nozel that some students were testing out in the desert. They were talking about 3D printing ceramics and metals. So that piqued my interest and it seems logical. I also saw an article yesterday where somewhere in Britian they are going to 3D print a bridge.

          http://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-startup-to-3d-print-bridge-over-canal-using-two-robots/

          This is pretty out there. But I can see the heat exchangers being 3D printed. Why not the entire thing?

        • Omega Z

          “I doubt that a high temperature supercritical steam plant can be 3D printed”

          Don’t tell GE & Siemens NASA or ESA that. They are already working on printing jet engines, rocket injectors & nozzles & GE recently announced their starting R&D on supercritical steam turbines.

          These GE Engineers 3D Printed a Mini Jet Engine, Then Took it to 33,000 RPM-Video link plus photos.
          http://www.gereports.com/post/118394013625/these-engineers-3d-printed-a-mini-jet-engine-then
          —————————————————————
          NASA 3D Printed injectors Hot fired 2 versions I believe
          One of the keys to reducing the cost of rocket parts is minimizing the number of components. This injector had only two parts, whereas a similar injector tested earlier had 115 parts.
          —————————————————————
          “Traditional rocket injectors used on prior tests took six months to fabricate. These injectors had four parts, five welds and detailed machining and cost more than $10,000 each. Marshall materials engineers built the same injector in one piece by sintering Inconel steel powder with a state-of-the-art 3-D printer. After minimal machining and inspection with computer scanning, the part took just three weeks to reach the test stand and cost less than $5,000 to manufacture.
          —————————————————————
          Early data from a test, conducted at pressures up to 1,400 pounds per square inch absolute and at almost 6000°F // 3315°C, indicate the injector worked flawlessly.
          —————————————————————
          ESA successfully tests 3D printed thruster
          http://www.gizmag.com/esa-3d-printed-platinum-thruster/38112/pictures

          ignition tests during which reached a maximum temperature of 1253 °C (2287 °F). According to ESA, theses results are on a par with thrusters produced via conventional machining methods.