If You Were in Andrea Rossi’s Shoes, What Would You have Done? (Andy Kumar)

Thanks to Andy Kumar for this suggestion for a thread

While we are waiting for the commercial release of the e-cat, I was wondering if the e-cat followers here would have taken a different path than what Dr. Rossi has chosen.

Admin could start a separate thread on the topic.

If I were in Rossi’s position of having invented a world changing technology at age 60+, I would have cashed in my Nobel prize and openly published the details so that the best minds in the world can work on it. I would like to hear the regular followers’ views on it.

Andy Kumar

  • Warthog

    You’ve got it precisely backwards. Those who made the RF measurements had no idea why it was there. It was wholly an experimental discovery with no theoretical basis whatsoever at the time. IIRC, the most popular theory at the time was the “steady state universe”,

  • GreenWin

    Andy, you continue to labor under the impression LENR resolves around Andrea Rossi. And that he owes US yet another demo; or needs shark money. That’s not how commercial products launch. Especially one as disruptive as this.

    There are a thousand cold fusion papers in the CANR library. How ’bout our best and brightest do some homework?

    BTW, didn’t Apple steal from Xerox PARC??

  • GreenWin

    BTW, the entire “personal computer” ($1.5T) business was built on proprietary IP. But somehow that seemed to place near-zero limits on PC cloning and reverse engineering. The personal computer business may be the fastest adopted technology in human history – in spite of it being ringed with patents, NDAs, trade secrets, and proprietary IP.

    Conclusion? If A.R. can do it – why not US??

    • Roland

      And you’ll note that the survivors are still hacking away at each other, in the courts and otherwise, decades later over the liberties taken by most all and sundry during the frenzy.

      Transgress first, litigate later…

  • GreenWin

    You underestimate human ego and greed. It’s all but guaranteed should Rossi reveal proprietary details… there will be an “explosion” in an LENR lab. Likely it will kill one or two people. Those people will be accused of crackpot science endangering the human race.

    A couple more incidents of the like and LENR will be relegated to basement bomber status, just above suitcase terrorists. Rossi knows the game. These pleas for altruism before there is a commercially viable product are driven by ulterior motive.

    Put simply; most people in this program are untrustworthy.

  • Tobben

    If i Were in Andrea Rossi’s Shoes i would try how fast they are 🙂

  • Mats002

    Hi Clovis, yes for shore 🙂

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I would have either stayed at home to watch Jerry Springer reruns and throw empty beer cans at the TV or looked for a way to interface the Hot-Cat with an alpha voltaic cell to make electricity directly from the MeV alphas coming from the reaction, Li(7) + p > 2(He) 17.3 MeV. See 00:40 min. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy0kHQASsX8#t=20

    • GreenWin

      I recall George Miley suggesting a grid between plasma electrodes could provide the equiv of this alpha voltaic cell. I would also look to STMicro to adopt their LENR patent to an energy producing semiconductor. Nanoplasma -> Vi.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Ah yeah, and we’re probably just seeing the tip
        of the iceberg.

  • Allan Kiik

    Old timers here surely remember Defkalion who did exactly that – started selling licenses (40 Million EUR each) before they had working and reliable, well tested design.
    As Rossi has stated many times, the e-cat is much more advanced tech than most of observers can imagine. And this sophistication is not only in the ‘charge’ composition and geometry, it is about taming the reaction and keeping the charge live for long run times, fast removal of excess heat etc. There is a lot of problems to solve and most of them need long string of experiments to explore the vast parameter space, to be sure about the commercial success. That is what Rossi is referring to, when he is talking about possible negative outcome. If you do not have reliable design, but you have something what is enough to convince big players that the effect is indeed real, then, without IP protection, you are in the worst possible position – the winner takes it all.

  • Francis

    I perfectly agree with you. While i am a Rossi supporter i don’t like his “strategy” and i don’t pretend it is good as many do here (which, quite frankly, is sadly beginning to look very much like the fanboyism you can see in Apple users).

    The whole point of patents is to release information to the rest of the society WHILE still having profits for a reasonable long time (20 years). All what Rossi has to do is release all his informations so that whoever is in charge to confirm his patent can replicate it and prove to himself it is a real thing. Then whoever builds and sells it doesn’t matter anymore… Rossi still gets his good share of profits which will be more than enough to spend his whole life in a house made of gold and emeralds.

    So why is Rossi keeping all these secrets? What is it exactly that he wants that he cannot have with the mountain of money that is waiting for him if he only opens up a bit? He already has a huge advantage over any third party… why doesn’t he release the basic “recipe” to make a simple E-Cat?

    While i believe that the E-Cat is real and i never, not even once, called him a liar as many did, i still don’t understand this silly behaviour. I perfectly understand that he had very bad experiences in the past, but he can quite easily prove his worth and prove the society wrong if this is what he seeks… without making us wait for years as he has done. Every single day he delays it someone keeps dying for lack of energy (and food and water) all around the world and our planet gets more and more polluted. He has the idea/knowledge that could stop all of this right now, or at least it could help a lot… so why is he delaying it? Does he really want the whole pie or no pie at all? Does it look like something that should be praised of him?

    This is what i would have done differently from him, and i think this would be the most sensible thing to do if anyone was in his shoes.

    • BillH

      I can suggest a few answers, 1) Releasing the design of a product which has such a high energy density could be ever so slightly dangerous, and result in people blowing themselves up 2) Mr Rossi hasn’t worked out the physics yet and doesn’t want someone beating him to it. 3) The one who can get the first patent approved will scoop the most money and fame. 4) The E-Cat might not be as simple as you think.

  • LilyLover

    I guess, I would have been assassinated in Rossi’s shoes, for speaking too much about avenging the Petroldragon. He let it go, channeled the energy into E-Cat and came back bigger and better. So, yes, surviving the powerful snakes, waarants him the biggest bravery award much more than a Nobel prize which is probably going to be replaced by Rossi prize in the future – prestigewise, anyways! Yes, I know Rossi better than he can admit to himself. 🙂
    His path is noble, faster and better than the one inspired by profits.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi has set a very high bar for humanitarian behavior. IMHO, none of us can do better. Rossi wants to give all his profits to children with cancer and to help autistic children. IH has also agreed to distribute their profits to the same purpose.

    Rossi is reported to have receive a great deal of money for his intellectual property from IH. If Rossi has been faithful towards his early intentions, he would have given that money to many children in distress directly. If you say a thing, you should do it. Has there been any indication that these intentions are being acted on? Such positive news about these actions would be great to reveal that LENR is all heart and not just centered on making money. Of course, these children may be held silent under a NDA to protest Rossi’s modesty..

    A few of Rossi;s intentions are listed below:

    Andrea Rossi

    July 6th, 2014 at 7:51 PM

    WaltC:
    The E-Cat detractors are making a wonderful work: they do not know, but I read carefully all they say and write. Their critics sometimes are right, sometimes are not, but in both cases we learn from them. You have noticed that the more they fight against us the more we grow up and a scientific observation should put a ratio cause-effect between the criticism and our growth.
    About your paragraphs:
    1- no neutrons exit from the E-Cats
    2- quite difficult with the first and second thermodynamic principles
    3- we will see from the next Third Independent Party: maybe it is true, maybe not
    4- the patentability has nothing to do with the question if it works or not
    5- this is a very important paragraph, let us analyse it; first of all we must put a distinction between the objective and the subjective aspect of this issue;
    a- objective aspect: if the so called Rossi Effect works ( and let me remind to all that the results of the tests could be positive, but also negative) it will be useful for everybody, also for the children or all the world
    b- subjective aspect: I repeat what I wrote in another comment today: I gave my honour word that a relevant part of the profits of our work will be spent to fund the healthcare of children whose families cannot afford proper healthcare. I said it, my Team and I are doing it, we will do it. Do not ask me anymore about this issue, because this is an issue I want not to trumpet around.
    Thank you for your trust.
    You ask: what they will come up with next ? Whatever it will be, we will take advantage of it. In my life I had to overcome many, many, many very, very negative events and to survive I developed a skill to turn into positive a negative event: for example, when I have been put in prison for crimes I never made, I told to myself: ” what a wonderful occasion to study the LENR: now I lost everything I had, all my time can be dedicated to this”. It worked.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi

    July 6th, 2014 at 2:08 PM

    To the Readers:
    There is one thing that disturbs me, that is circulationg in minor blogs that have been reported to me: I am accused not to respect my honour word to spend relevant part of the profits produced by the Rossi Effect for the healthcare of children that cannot afford proper healthcare. I gave my word on this issue, and I always do what I say, even if this will not be trumpeted around.
    In due time and in due sites we will give information of this endeavour of us. I am very upset to have to write about this, but, unfortunately, the mother of the imbeciles is always pregnant and we must take care of what pops out.
    Andrea Rossi

    Andrea Rossi

    May 27th, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    Dear Tony Mc Connell:
    Of course our work is more important than the dirt play of mafious persons and organizations, but today I found on wikipedia a page headed with my name in which is falsely reported that I have pending charges in Court and that I have been convicted for crimes for which I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED, and when I politely sent a correction the correction has been published for 5 minutes, after which the corrections have been cancelled and returned the text with the falsifications, and after that my corrections have not been accepted: I cannot stand this. Obviously I cannot take off the time ( 16 hours per day) that I have to dedicate to my work, so I cannot compete with the wikipedian mafia, but nevertheless it is unavoidable that I get nervous for some hour…now the issue is in the hands of my attorneys. I WANT TO BE REFUNDED AND THE MONEY I WILL GET WILL GO TO HEAL A CHILD FROM CANCER. So all this mafious bullshit will have had a sense. I have no more time to subtract to my work: today I will finish to work at 3 a.m. of tomorrow to recover the time I spent to struggle against this mafia and see my corrections published again, with no results…I will spend no more time on this, but be sure the more they will stay with that bullshit published, the more they will pay. Now the issue is completely in the hands of my attorneys.
    Again: to know my past, please go to
    http://www.ingandrearossi.com
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea Rossi

    Andrea Rossi

    December 16th, 2012 at 10:13 AM

    Dear Frank Acland:
    The philosophy of our USA Partner and of us is based on the following 4 pillars:
    1- this technology has to be consolidated and put at the service of Mankind
    2- industrialization of the manufacturing must reach low prices to lower the cost of energy in the World
    3- give back the money we earn as much as possible to cure cancer in children in the World
    4- produce good jobs
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi

    August 31st, 2012 at 3:56 AM

    Dear Bernie Koppenhofer:
    First of all, the certification process must be completed in Europe or in the USA at least before we make an installation, and this is valid also for Africa: it is deonthologically unacceptable to install a not certified apparatus in a Country just because in that Country the safety issues are not addressed.
    We have no experience in desalination yet, and this operation can be made only after we will know exactly the problem. After that, there are many problems to think about, first of all the problem of the defence of the technology, that in those situations can be very critic: who makes secure the place? That is an action that will be possible only after our plants will be already diffused, the Intallectual Property well defined and our experience in desalination consolidated. We got the idea and we will take in account it: when we will set up our system of charity we will think about this and will look not for charity organizations, but directly to the utilizers, as well as we will give the money for children cancer care directly to the families, to avoid to pay wages of “non profit” organizations managers, secretaries etc instead of paying healthcare
    Warm Regards,

    Andrea Rossi

    December 24th, 2011 at 5:15 PM

    Dear Doug Hulstedt MD:
    Your pre-order has been accepted, of course: thank you.
    Yes, all the E-Cats of the first generation, which will produce only heat, will be retrofittable to produce also electricity.
    I want specific names of autistic children who need help: we are ready to help, but I want to be sure that the money goes to them.

    Andrea Rossi

    May 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 AM

    Dear Doug Hulstedt, MD:
    1- I prefer a simpler and more specific way: get the address of the children, make a check that all is true, pay the hospital, get the specific healthcare. I think this is the only way to be effective in a practical way, otherwise money will be diluted in many ways and, substantially, wasted.
    2- I have good help
    Waerm regards,
    A.R.

  • bachcole

    We have seen enough to know that Rossi has the goods. If you want to criticize him, you are welcome to go to http://maryyugo.com I am sure that she/he will welcome you.

    This is a matter that I have already concluded in my mind. I don’t want to be bothered with sniping. If some thing real turns up, like the whole thing was a scam engineered by Bill Gates, then I will listen.

  • GreenWin

    Give it up Zarat. You’re just wasting your time with negative comments.

  • Omega Z

    Rossi said he had a discussion with a car manufacturer that said it would take at least 20 years due to developing the technology for that use & getting through Government red tape. Don’t recall which one, but the person he spoke to pretty much confirmed that since then.
    I took that as a positive note. At least the manufacturer didn’t say it was impossible.

  • Omega Z

    Actually, This has nothing to do with Rossi.
    It is about an attitude that someone owes you. I have no problem helping people. Especially for those who due to reasons beyond their control need help. But to claim Rossi or anyone else for that matter owes it to you is just wrong. It is theft. How bout you give me a few years of your life. That is what you are asking if you think about it.

    And Should Rossi get rich by providing a product that saves you 100 times what it costs & makes your life better. GREAT. I can’t imagine a better way to get rich. By truly helping Society.

    Hypothetical
    I’ve occasionally wondered when people talk of greed: What if I developed a little black box that you attach to your car & saves you a $1000 a year on gas. And this little black box cost $20 of which I make $1 profit. Would you call me greedy.

    What if I sold 1 for each of the 1 Billion cars in the World. I’ve made a Billion$. Am I Greedy. I’ve saved you all a Trillion$ for every year you drive your cars. Who’s Greedy. If you think it is I, Then maybe I think the world is not worthy of my little black box. Maybe I shall not build it. I will just go have a drink & flip the world off.

    Lucky for You. I think some people in the world are worthy. I build it so as not to punish them for your greed.

  • Christina

    Mr. Zarat:

    Mr. Akland accepted lots of criticism against Mr. Rossi in the early years of this blog.

    But after the Lugano test was proven mostly successful and after other scientists were getting positive results, the criticism subsided and the hope that lenr is real exploded.

    Albeit, we are still awaiting the final unveiling.

    This unveiling could be the true diamond of low energy nanoscale nuclear reactions (lennr) or it could be anything from a total fiasco to energy as productive as what’s here or fantastic forms of energy that free humanity forever from worrying over energy.

    We’ll see what God’s providence has put into His physics for Mr. Rossi and others to find and develop.

    Sincerely,

    Christina

    Christina

  • Omega Z

    I’m also not a fan of Big Pharma, But I’ve learned overtime that not all is as it seems. They are a government pawn just like the rest of us. They also have the highest research funding from profits averaging 20% or more. Without this, the type of research they do would all but cease to exist.

    Our Government doesn’t fund this type of research. They only fund basic compound research. Someone involved in such research are limited to what they are allowed to publish. If inadvertently by fluke you discovered a certain compound wiped out all cancer cells in a petri dish, you can’t publish such a finding if it is not in the purview of your research. You can’t even direct Big Pharma to look at it. It could lead to being banned from funding & research all together. I would point out that the researcher who posted this answer to a question said, This does not mean what is found is a cure. Just a direction to look into. Still, they are not allowed to point anyone in that direction.

    Another thing to be aware of, If you develop a drug that can be manufactured & sold for $10, You will be directed to sell it for cost or even a loss to people in other parts of the World. In return, your allowed to sell it for an exuberant price in the U.S. to offset losses of profit.

    At 1 time I wondered how poor countries could afford certain treatments, And I 1st became aware of how with Bill Clinton’s African aids drug deal. $50 a patient for what costs $1K or more a month for U.S. patients. It is cost shifting & it is practiced on a regular bases with all expensive drugs. It’s also not a U.S. exclusive. All western nations do this to some extent.

    Even Tho I’m still not a Big Pharma fan, I do have a different perspective. Much of it has to do with Government policies. The same policies that prevent investigation of non traditional medicine.

    In the G7 thread Merkel says we need to start the 100 Billion$ a year funding. Follow the money. To the U.N. who will distribute it to smaller impoverished countries for GW mitigation. A couple months ago 1 of those Island leaders was screaming he wanted his 2 Billion$ promised & the U.N. needed to ply the pressure on Western Countries to pay up.
    We know how this will work. A lot of Rich Politico’s & still impoverished people. It’s a pattern…

    • bachcole

      You still are a big fan of (exclusively) reductionistic, (exclusively) anti-naturalistic, and (exclusively) greed corrupted thinking that you share with Big Pharma. It is this bias that is killing so many people. Anyone who does not think like this, but rather thinks holistically, naturally (or paleo), and “cheaply”, is marginalized, demonized, de-funded, ostricisized. and basically has their career destroyed by Big Pharma and their minions. Think not? Remember Dr. Linus Pauling. It turns out that he was right. Ultra-high levels of vitamin C do absolutely nothing harmful and kill cancer cells. This example doesn’t even qualify as the tip of the ice berg. I have healed myself without any pharmaceutical drugs whatsoever. I was crippled. And now I walk normally.

      The government doesn’t dictate to Big Pharma. Big Pharma dictates to the government.