Rossi on Reactors Working in Concert for High Self-Sustain Periods

Andrea Rossi has commented about how he has achieved synergy between multiple reactors within his 1 MW plant, and that is what has allowed for the high periods of self-sustain mode. Once he talked about having a ‘cluster’ of reactors, but yesterday said that word was vague and used wrongly.

A reader suggested that it might be better to talk of “many reactors in concert.” This seemed to please Andrea Rossi who replied:

Andrea Rossi
June 5th, 2015 at 9:20 PM
Dan C.:
The concert model is proper: wherein many instruments can make a harmony that is not just the sum of single sounds: resonances can generate virtual entities whose energy is higher than the sum of the energy of the singles.
The Mouse has a driving license, of course!
Next time you bake a cake I send him to make the pick up.
Speaking seriously: thank you for your insight.
Warm Regards

I find it interesting to see the analogy between E-Cats and musical instruments here — since it seems that in both cases things like harmonics, waveform, frequency, apply — and when you you combine them you can get resonances between them.

The phrase “resonances can generate virtual entities whose energy is higher than the sum of the energy of the singles”, could be describing an important element in getting the high periods of self-sustain mode.

  • Axil Axil
  • James Andrew Rovnak

    We did see some of these resonance EM TRIAC inputs in the Lugano report from the PCE 830 trace presented in that report of input current shape & its frequency spectrum.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Yes making ULM neutrons is the key! What think you Bob? They are gobbled up quick after formation! Jim

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys, I love open source science, great minds working together, what better science could there be, but you see, Dr. Rossi didn’t have any help, save Dr. Forcardi, this is his baby, he created it, and now he knows all about it, we on the other hand have to search for it. at least until this last test is preformed, I love all this testing everyone is doing, because it gives me a better knowledge of what is going on in the reactor, soon Dr. Rossi will tell all, if we have not figured it out by then.
    Dr Rossi, has been very crafty, in navigating all the horror’s and dangerous water between prototype and product, when no one else could have.

  • psi2u2

    I like this: “resonances can generate virtual entities whose energy is higher than the sum of the energy of the singles.”

    I think these resonances are what can break the “laws” of ordinary physics.

    • Axil Axil

      Finding this resonance and learning how to use it is the key to the sucess of LENR.

    • Obvious

      Photon to phonon actions increase the degrees of freedom. I think this feature can be exploited.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have posted one option in the dedicated thread.

  • Omega Z

    You would have 2 primary camps.
    Those who think Rossi is pretty much taking the right track AND Those who think it should be Open Source.

    Open Source would spread the INFORMATION Faster.
    Rossi’s path will spread the Hardware Technology faster.

    The reason is that this technology will require 100’s of Billion$ in up front investment. That kind of investment requires a certain amount of guarantees.(IP’s) 10 or 20 years latter when these IP’s expire, it wont matter. The ground work foundations will already have been set.

    If this technology is open sourced, we will have to wait until certain entities devise their own technology that can be covered by IP before the big investments come along.

    The 1 thing both camps would agree on is they wish it would come about faster. Probably the primary reason some would like to see it open sourced. In the end, tests have to be performed & if that’s a 12 month test, No amount of money will shorten that test or the number of tests that Government will require..

  • Axil Axil

    Dekalion exposed their technowogy to a major extent during the ICCF-18 and NI conferences. They were ignored and even worse was accused of fraud. Dr. Kim put out a revealing paper but pulled it back. He would not have put out a draft if he was unsure of his experimental observations. Why Kim pulled the paper back is unknown, but it might have been the fraud accusation. But the Defkalion design lives on in the AIRBUS patent.

    If the past is prolog, the best minds will at best ignore the LENR technology. Rossi is right, when you have an E Cat lighting and heating your home, the best minds mignt be willing to look into LENR.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The “best minds” have been the biggest impediment to LENR for the past quarter of a century. I would prefer to see Rossi work on it by himself.

  • Axil Axil

    There has been a wide range of experimental results that show the light released from the Dark mode solitons is in the soft x-ray range. This shows that the energy absorbed by the soliton increases from the infrared range to these higher XUV wavelength values.

    Does that not say the the solitons can advance in energy content above the wavelength of light that first formed them?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Good points Matteo. But if it were me, I don’t think I’d grab that thing even if it was cold after the juice was turned off. How about Kim Kardashian with one of those handheld infrared thermometers (like the one Rossi points at the Hot-Cat)?

  • Stephen

    Hi Matteo. Wow it’s good to see some one with your background here. I think all the advice you said is equally applicable in principle to the LENR experiments too. There are two amazing things going on: 1st the development of LENR itself. 2nd the amazing open science approach that has been stimulated. One day when the world ready I hope they can make great media stories too.

  • Axil Axil

    These vortex based solitons have be seen is a number of LENR experiments. Defkalion has seen this and reported it in their IFFC-18 paper:

    “Rydberg States (atoms/molecules) created + Ni magnetized above

    Curie Temp. creating nano-scale localized magnetic traps

    (LMTs) with short life-times on Ni surfaces , most probably due to

    Plasmon-Nanoplasma interactions [16,17]”

    This solitons explode in a “Bosenova”. As a result of his observations, Dr. Kim has added the Bosenova to his BEC theories.

    There is a soliton/vortex/plasmoid basis for cavatation, brown’s gas, and Ken Sholder’s Evs.

    LeClair has seen free moving solitons punching holes in his walls and his trees outside his lab.

    The Proton21 experiment has seen free roaming vortexes produced in their experiments.

    Also See

    IMHO, Ball lightning is the SPP soliton produced on the macro scale.

  • Matteo172

    This comment refers to the Hutchison Effect video that Alan DeAngelis posted

  • Jouni

    Please do remember this model of atomic structures when thinking of the reactions.
    BSM-SG atomic models:

  • pg

    if it turns out that the ecat does not work, I ll be pissed off with myself for quite sometimes, after following this for more than 4 years.

    • bachcole

      I will laugh at myself and go on to other things. (:->) But I probably won’t tell my friends, in the hopes that they will have forgotten all about it. (:->)

      • Omega Z

        REAL WORLD
        It Works-
        Hey Roger,
        Did you see the 6 o’clock news. Some guy developed a new type of energy device. Non polluting & Real Cheap. The whole world is taking about it.

        No Roger, I don’t recall you Ever talking about this.
        All you’ve talked about for the last several years is the neighbors Cat chasing mice or something.
        It doesn’t Work
        25 years later- Hey Roger, What ever happened with the energy device you used to drive us crazy about.?

  • Gerard McEk

    I am not sure that the saturation level of fuel is important (that’s the only material that can be saturated). We will have to play with the maximum currents to see how it influences LENR, but that is where this controller will be made for.

    • Robert Ellefson

      If you construct an oscillator that switches based on the current sense, then the resulting switching frequency is proportional to the inductance, and will reflect the present magnetic permeability of the core. If there are changes to the core characteristics, the measured frequency can be used as a signal to detect these changes. This is what my h-bridge control circuit is doing so far in simulation, and now I’m working on enhancements to the dynamic unipolar and biased polarity excitation modes, such that some number of basic parameterized stimulus functions can be performed in hardware control loops that are configured by a dynamic but much slower software layer in the microcontroller. I expect that the magnetic character of the core will provide a useful signal for experimental and control purposes, and I am eager to see what these measurements can tell us. Good luck with your board! I suggest you als0 consider adding ground particles of silicon steel, about 200 microns in size, to your fuel, as this seems to be what Rossi is using to take advantage of the magnetic fields in his reactors. Fast switching times should stimulate these much more than the slow-switching types of power controllers are doing.

  • Gerard McEk

    Jim, you suggested right. I was an electrical and control engineer. See my answer to Axil above as well.

  • mrtakeyouaway

    Maybe theey should just Nano-coat the E-CAT in some parts where the fields need to be stronger! 😉

    And maybe Keshe Group need to runt eh same catalytic process as Rossi in the Nano-coated systems they have.

    High efficiency Energy Groups must start joining and sharing research and linking processes.

    I’m almost certainly sure a properly NANO COATED E-CAT would obtain INFINITE SSM.

  • Axil Axil

    The surfase pasmon polariton is a quasiparticle whose mass is milli electron volts. The max temperature of a Bose condinsate is inversaly prodortional to the mass of the boson. That is why the SPP can form a condinsate at very high temperatures.

    What you say is true for atoms because they have a large mass, But the SPP condinsate can have a very high maximum temperature. because of its very low mass.



  • Alan DeAngelis

    I don’t know exactly what John Hutchison is doing to achieve his effect but could the Rossi effect be somehow related to it?

    • Omega Z

      Find find much of Hutchison work fascinating. Many think he is a crackpot, But when you look into the ABC’s of who he has worked & consulted with, You find those of the ABC club do not think so. That, or his results are to scarey not to check it out.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        “Almost everyone today is brain-damaged by our education which is designed to produce docile automatons.”
        Timothy Leary

        We need “crackpots”.

        • GreenWin

          And docile automatons believe everything we tell ’em.

  • Axil Axil

    Hank Mills:

    If we give too much energy to the reactor the temperature raises above the controllability limits and the reactor explodes. We must maintain the drive below this limit, and it is what we are learning to do, trying to reach a controllability level at the highest temperature possible, because the COP raises exponentially with the operation temperature. The apparatus is made by two well separated components, the activator ( “mouse”) and the energy catalyzar ( “Cat”). Now we have a mouse with a COP above 1 and a Cat with a COP with zero energy consumption. If the Mouse excites the cat too much, the cat gets wild and explodes. We must not risk to reach this level. We have seen explode hunderds of reactors now, this way.

    Warm Regards,

    This post by Rossi shows that the Cat is not powered. All the stimulation comes from the mouse. If powered reactor (Mouse) can excite N numbers of non powered reactors (Cats), the COP of this clusters of reactors will be relativly high.

  • Axil Axil

    “The Mouse has a driving license, of course!”

    The Mouse may be a driver of the dipole vibrations. This could be how the mouse drives the Cat.

    An experiment to try to verify this idea is to have a reactor made up of a stack of multiple alumina tubes. Place fuel in all the tubes, but power only one of the tubes with a heater. Let us call that powered reactor :”the mouse”. This mouse has a reduced fuel load as in the last MFMP test to keep it from blowout. The other tubes are fully loaded with fuel and use the heat from the mouse and the EMF generated by the mouse to produce the reaction in all the fully fueled tubes.

    The EMF field that comes from the Mouse might keep all the other reactors in the stack in check even if they are fully loaded with fuel.

    • Stephen

      I wonder if it could work more as a chain. All the e cats are powerd but each one acts as. mouse for the next one helping to stimulate the SSM in the next one in the chain. If it worked in this way Perhaps the chain could be circular the last cat stimulating the first one again in the next heating cycle and there by maintaining SSM some how.

    • Surveilz

      EMF or as you’ve posited on a few occasions, something more ‘spooky’ is communicating its state?

      • Axil Axil

        Now future action can effect past events

        There is a brouhaha going on in quantum science right now involving how the properties of subatomic particles can have their properties seperated by the particle. Spin, Charge, and angular momentum (AM), can be seperated from the particle. The property and the particle can take seperate paths. But actions of the observer after the particle has gotten to its destination can change the results of the experiment.

        There are two contending theories, particle self interference and the future effecting the past.

        • Surveilz

          Now that, is truly mind-torturing!

  • Axil Axil

    What is the nature of the E cat music? Music as we know it is carried in the air as sound. It involves vibrations in the air. Air carries music to us.

    In the E Cat, Hot Cat and so on, vibration is carries by dipole motion of electrons on the surface of the micro particles. When all the micro particles are in resonance, all the elections on all the nickel micro particles are vibrating in unison. This is called a Bose Einstein condensate. All the dipoles become one and are in sync.

    These dipoles put out a strong EMF field that can influence other dipoles in other reactors. It may be that many reactors in the cluster become synchronize to form a global Bose Einstein condensate where all the dipoles keep each other in sync. This common background EMF field may allow for reactors to share energy between one another via a common EMF field that surrounds the cluster. In such a condition input power may not be needed to pump the dipoles between and among the reactors in the cluster.

    Maybe Rossi has discovered how to interconnect the reaactors in his cluster to share in the dipole vibrations by using an EMF based backbone interconnect so that all the dipoles are joined together in a cluster wide Bose condinsate.?

  • oceans

    when we finally see what LENR looks like it will have 1.618 all over it.

  • Mike the Engineer

    Interesting that the music analogy came up. For some reason there seems to be a connection between musical aptitude and electrical / electronics engineering. The Johnson O’Connor Research Foundation (which tests for aptitudes) has noted that people who have an interest and ability for the field of electrical engineering will often also have a musical aptitude as well. This correlation does not exist for any other branch of engineering. They can’t explain it, they just note that the correlation exists.

    Some of the readers of this site will know that when control instruments are adjusted to match a given system it is referred to as “tuning” the loop. So, music, controls, two entirely different fields, but in some way they are connected.

    • BroKeeper

      It is so true. The whole universe is fine tuned in harmonics from vibrating strings (theory) to harmonic photons within photosynthesis.

      I’m thinking even the accumulated varieties of isotopes forming over time gives additional harmonic control within the fuel causing check and balance of the nuclear reactions within the E-Cat sustaining a longer SSM.
      This makes me believe the fuel may last much longer than a year assuming metal fatigue does not occur.

    • Omega Z

      “there seems to be a connection between musical aptitude and electrical / electronics engineering”

      Yes, The connection is they both involve harmonics, waveform, frequency & resonances between them.

      Taken a step farther, Everything has it’s own frequency or resonance. Theoretically, One should be able to invent/create a device that could heal the sick, make you very healthy or very ill. Or a device properly focused that you could aim at a missile & it would explode or just disintegrate.

      Evidence is all around but, maybe so subtle we don’t notice. Note how some people have ill effects from power lines or are hampered by RF frequencies, however this varies by individual. Tho humans fall with in a certain range, there is some variation. So before I use a device to heal you, It would need fine tuned to you specifically. Otherwise, I may disintegrate you. 🙂

      It’s probably even possible to control objects such as levitating & such, But Science has pushed much of this into the fringes & even into junk Science. Fortunately, Others still look into it. DARPA, NASA: Tractor beams anyone.

      Note when I speak of levitation, I’m talking of a focused device I just point & do. It would appear as if I were breaking the laws of gravity or something. How can a simple human point a hand held device & move a 20 ton stone. He can’t, But the device may manipulate the resonances around it & let nature do the work. I find it interesting that some groups among our ancestors lacking in science & technology understood this better then many do today.

    • GreenWin

      “Science” is a subset of Art.

  • Gerard McEk

    I cannot wait to have my LENR controller constructed. It is able to generate short AC spikes (from < 0.01 msec onward) of high currents and can be PWM to accomodate power input control. It provides also short circuiting of the heating coil for damping the out of control run-away of LENR, if that would happen. I just wonder if just DC PWM control would suffice. That would make the controller cheeper and simpler. On the other hand: I believe the prototype should be made such that different wave-forms (e.g.10 Hz to 10 kHz and of different shapes) can be generated for research purposes. What would you suggest?

    • Axil Axil

      I beleive that the short duration and very sharp rise time of the pulse is more inportant to the effectiveness of the stimulation of the reaction than the high current output. Instantanious power in a very short pulse might be greater than a slow rising pulse with high current,

      A pulse can be made so short that it does not heat the lattice. This fast pulse is what Brillouin Energy uses to stimulate their reaction.

      • clovis ray

        Axil axil
        May I ask , does all matter it’s own own resonance, if so why couldn’t the nickel be pulsed at it’s given frequency, in order to get the effect started , and maintained.

        • GreenWin

          It probably could clovis. Peter Hagelstein suggests physical shock can start the reaction “ringing.” So too could a tuning fork adjusted to the resonance of the reactor fuel.

      • Gerard McEk

        I have to work with the electrical laws, Axil. The coil is an inductance. To get a high di/dt (or more importanly a high dH/dt) you need a relatively high voltage and fast switching devices like IGBT’s. Also a low resistance of the coil will help. That is what I intend to use. The number of turns of the coil should be low to get a low inductance, but high to get a high field strength (H). I think I would choose the limited number of turns. This all with the aim to get the highest dH/dt with the shortest current pulse.

  • Daniel Maris

    Great. Now let’s see the orchestra perform in the concert hall…the overture has gone on long enough!

  • bachcole

    And to think that some day all this will seem primitive.

    • Omega Z

      “some day”
      Depends on perspective. I already consider our science to be in it’s primitive days. However, All the things I see taking place leads me to believe that possibly, within the next decade, maybe, science graduates kindergarten.

      I’ve recently seen where Scientist,(Mostly in the Physics Community) are advocating that the Scientific Method & it’s Empirical Evidence should be abandoned. Yes, Proving or disproving a Theory is getting to hard for them. Hopefully, well have some politicians with enough integrity to shut off funding to any who follow this path.

      These Scientists are of the view that if a theory is exotically & mathematically written beautiful enough, that is all that is needed. Closer to the truth is likely many of their theories can not be proven or disproven within their lifetime. How can one obtain a Nobel in that situation? However, If they really think it’s just to hard, they should switch careers. Science produces enough garbage without doing it with intent. Aside from that, Mythical Theories lead to an end of Scientific advancement.

  • Twobob

    Is this the Theme Tune for the Future?
    The rhythm is good but the lyrics are lousy.