Rossi on Hot Cat Improvements

From what Andrea Ross has told us, we know that while he sits inside his shipping container monitoring the performance of the 1 MW plant, that he is keeping busy with other projects. He has mentioned working on his theoretical collaboration with Norman Cook, and also working on R&D with the Hot Cat (high temperature E-Cat)

Rossi has reported that the 1 MW plant is working well at the moment — in a stable manner, and also that the COP is very high, since the plant is operating in self-sustain mode most of the time (meaning no input power required to maintain the reactions). He also commented recently about the Hot Cat:

The work on the Hot Cat here is going on also, with a R&D that is substantially improving its efficiency.

I asked Rossi whether he was able to get the same kind of performance out of the Hot Cats he is working with. Here is his response:

Frank Acland:
The modifications I am making in these days on the Hot Cat have been inspired by the new reading I am making of the book of Prof. Norman Cook, and from our discussions during the making of the paper published on Arxiv. The results are important, but before talking of data I prefer continue the test that is on course in the container of the computers, here in the factory where the 1 MW E-Cat is working. I think the results could be even better, but we need a long work of R&D on it.
Besides: the results of all this endeavours could also be negative… ( I don’t remember the number of the “F”…)
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Here’s another comment in a response to another question:

Let’s complete all our R&D on course, whose results could be either positive, or negative.
When the R&D and the tests on course both on the 1MW E-Cat and on the Hot Cat ( very innovative), we will focus on commercial issues and all their implications.

It sounds like a significant evolution has been taking place with regard to the Hot Cat, and I find it very interesting and encouraging that the improved performance seems to have come via theoretical understanding, rather than just trial and error. I think this ties in with what Tom Darden recently said he was impressed with about Rossi — that he was ‘intensely theoretical’, rather than being a tinkerer.

Discussing theory for theory’s sake is one thing — but theory that can substantially improve the performance of a product in the real world is something much more significant. If the performance of the Hot Cat can match, or even exceed the performance of the 1 MW plant which is apparently running very efficiently, then Rossi and IH have a very useful product on their hands, since the high temperatures of the Hot Cat are the key to efficient electicity generation — something the low temperature plant is not suited for.

  • Paul

    The 1 MW plant is not suited for electricity generation but with a so high COP you make everything. With a Stirling engine you have about 10% conversion efficiency. If a Hot-Cat has a much lower (about 1/3) COP the only advantage of the Hot-Cat is that it is more compact and that can be used for high temperature industrial process. But if the 1 MW plant is ready, it should be the first to go into the market…

  • Peter T

    Just to echo Tom Darden’s respect for the disrespected courageous Community of followers and contributors over these last years which I’ve voyeuristically viewed over these last 4 years.

    Although off topic would below of be of some interest in terms of turbine heat efficiency ? http://www.gizmag.com/steam-turbine-efficiency/36760/

  • Gerrit

    I hope the “long work of R&D” does not mean that we’ll have to wait for another 4 years until the cat comes out of the bag.

    • blanco69

      Especially if the results turn out to be negative! At least Rossi will be able to say “I told you so!” over a hundred times!

  • BroKeeper

    Frank, I don’t mean to break out from these very interesting theoretical discussions but do you understand what AR is referring to by: “the number of the “F”….”? He mentioned it again this evening.

    • Axil Axil

      From the context, Rossi might mean failures. F…. might mean failures.

      • BroKeeper

        He can’t say it. It’s not in his vocabulary or a four letter word to him.

    • Omega Z

      It is a Joke… F9

      Dan C. ,April 15th, 2015 at 11:08 PM
      Dear Andrea Rossi,

      Aside from collecting data for the overall COP of the 1Mw plant, do you have the means to monitor the individual reactors. I was just thinking that if you had some reactors that perform very well & some that perform poorly, They could be analyzed at the end of the test to determine the cause. This would be useful for quality control when mass production begins.

      Another question I’m sure everyone wants to know. This is Really Important. 🙂
      Do you have a macro key like pressing F9 that automatically inserts the following to all your responses here at JONP.

      “I must add that the results could be either positive or negative.”

      Wishing you grand results.
      Kind Regards, Dan C.
      ——————————————-

      Andrea Rossi ,April 16th, 2015 at 7:19 AM

      Dan C.:
      1- yes
      2- he,he,he
      Warm Regards, A.R.

      • BroKeeper

        Thanks OZ. I think I have been parroting his joke in real life. (why won’t F1 help me?)

  • Axil Axil

    The suppression of gamma radiation is based on quantum energy teleportation. I have explained how this works on this site a hand full of times and yet I detect no understanding or even a desire to understanding this concept on this site. This is depressing for me.There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven. The time for quantum energy telepartation is not yet at hand. For those who want theory to lead the way as a tool for improvement in LENR, it should be depressing for them too, but they don’t know it yet.

    • builditnow

      Don’t give up. It’s likely not many understand your theory, or can muster the energy to try to understand. I certainly don’t.
      I suggest you keep posting it, eventually someone will be on the same page as you.
      I posted a much much much simpler idea many times at appropriate times before a few people thought it had merit. http://imgur.com/gallery/AF6KGhe/new (I’ve simplified it since).

    • Stephen

      I will certainly keep reading them. The simple physics approach I have tried to use does not explain everything. It doesn’t explain where all the Hydrogen goes in the experiments before the LENR starts, or how it is used when it has gone there, it may be some issues with conservation of momentum too. I regret not being able to read your old posts from before I started following LENR. I enjoyed reading the replies and explanations my earlier posts and the ones you made else where. I wish there was a central resource for them. I would like your theory to have its time now too.

    • Da Phys

      Axil, your contributions are really interesting, at least for me, however it is hard to link all with each other because many aspects of physics are involved. Personally I fail to understand the big picture although I have a good background in both nuclear and quantum physics. Do you have a place or document (website, scientific article, book chapter…) that presents your theory in detail? Thank you.

      • radvar

        I second that. Google Docs works great. Better for focused collaboration, also. Free, and decent control over the material.

      • Axil Axil

        I need to write a book. Does MFMP (or someplace else) have a place that I can store a PDF file that can contain a working version available to open source examination as I develop and improve the PDF through various revisions?

        • Ged

          Can try making a Google doc.

        • radvar

          Google docs and Groups is great for this. Frank did this in working on the Parkhomov replication instructions. It’s free. There’s a small learning curve which can be a little frustrating, however, it’s fairly “shallow”, i.e. once you “get it”, it all starts to work fine. There is lots of online help and instruction.

          Once you’re set up you can create graphics, spreadsheets, word documents. You can download them and convert them to Word and then PDF (any maybe there are other ways to get to PDF).

          You can share documents with everyone, or just who you choose, or not at all. You can make a data collection draft, a working draft and a final draft with different editing permissions for different people.

          It takes a little while to wrap your head around the technology, however, it’s definitely not rocket science (or nuclear physics!) and really worth it. Your power to express your ideas and get feedback will increase enormously. Don’t let the learning curve hold you back. You’ve got great ideas; this is a great way to share them.

        • http://www.thinktankreport.com/ Phillip Power

          With respect, you need to write one or more papers and submit them to a peer-reviewed journal, under your real name. Obviously not Nature or any other elitist, anti-LENR journal but, now that we are in the “post Padua” era, there must be at least one journal that is sufficiently prestigious yet open minded that you can focus on. And, of course, you can also submit them to arXiv, so we can all read them, even if we can’t fully understand them.

        • Josh G

          Yes, you should definitely use google docs, as radvar suggested. Super easy.

    • Mytakeis

      Axil, I do not understand your theory, but I do understand and applaud your enthusiasm, so please don’t be depressed, just because you’re ideas find few who, to your points, may attest. LENR is on its stellar course, and you’re one of the navigators.

      • Axil Axil

        In a lightning storm, a kite string can cause a bolt of lightning to follow its length from a cloud to the ground. The same is true for a gamma ray, as it follows an disturbance in the vacuum. Is there a way to make this idea simpler?

        • Mytakeis

          Wow! I get it. Thanks. While I was making a cup of coffee in my Senso coffee machine, I thought why could not the mechanism of this machine, which forces heated water through a coffee press not be used in conjunction with a e-Cat? On a individual scale, could heating water and forcing it through a (extremely small) dynamo-generator to supply limited electricity? Just a thought, but thanks for the kite string, good illustration.

    • Ged

      Is there any way we can test if it’s quantum energy teleportation rather than ye olde ordinary absorption by nuclei? Generally we’d need an entangled ground state to inject energy into (say a gamma ray’s worth instead of letting it escape as a gamma ray) for another area to extract that energy from the quantum field. But with these hot cat like devices, we’ve got a many body system in various phase and interaction states. It’s hard to see how we’d get a ground state entanglement, as quantum energy teleportation generally seems to be observed in vacuum where unified states are available to entangle.

      It is an enticing idea for an effective “gamma shielding” by simply dumping the gamma energy into entanglement instead of making a photon; but the mechanisms of the dump and extraction in a complex system like this is not simple to reconcile. We’d need experimental ways to test it, I think.

      • Axil Axil

        In the Dog bone test we just saw from Italy, gammas were produced when the bone was cold and getting hot and then again when cooling down.

        Gammas are released when the vacuum was not energetic enough to carry the gamma energy from the site of nuclear reaction to the soliton. When the energy density of the vacuum is saturated with energy, this excited vacuum becomes a path for nuclear energy to flow to other places so that that high energy is widely distributed and thermalized.

        The experiment for this has been done to show this effect when a laser is used to excites gold nanoparticles which stabilize radioactive isotopes.

        This is also how silver nanoparticles stabilize radioactive isotopes when stimulated by light.

        • Josh G

          “The vacuum is not nothing, it is what the world is made out of.”

          You sound like Paramahamsa Tewari, inventor of an over-unity generator that is apparently going into the field in India now, as I posted on the always-open page. His theory is based on a theory he developed around the vaccum: “A century from now, it will be well known that: the vacuum of space which fills the universe is itself the real substratum of the universe; vacuum in a circulating state becomes matter.”

          http://www.tewari.org/

          I detect similarities between your theory (esp with regard to quantum flux, virtual particles and the necessary conditions for real particle formation) and his theory a certain kinship with theories about zero-point energy.

          I don’t know how you can get us to understand, but don’t mistake our lack of understanding with indifference. I know in my own experience, it is frustrating when something is so crystal clear in my mind, but then when I try to explain it I find others do not see it as clearly as I do. You just have to keep thinking of other ways to explain in the hopes hitting on a way that will be more easily understandable. It may be clear to you, but that doesn’t mean it is easy for others to understand. This is complicated stuff.

          • Sanjeev

            I saw the news you posted. Its off topic but very interesting development indeed. I heard of Tewari’s generator many years ago and dismissed it as yet another magnet motor thing. But the news is from a mainstream newspaper and the reputed company of India (Kirloskar) is involved along with the state owned utility agency. This is a major news for the followers of ZPE.
            I still think that there are some things that need to done before its reality is established, like long term tests and self looping. Savings in energy bills will be another test.

            • Josh G

              Agreed that there is more work and tests to be done on the generator. It’s only “going into the field” in an R & D / proof of concept sense. And I agree it’s also probably off topic, though I surprised if the same principles behind the LENR effect are closely related to ZPE. In fact Axil’s reflections, in my remote understanding of them, suggest that they may very well be. I also wouldn’t be surprised if improved understanding of LENR and ZPE gives us better insight into gravity shielding. But that’s WAY off topic…

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHN-yuRGGQM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgyAFElQZcU

      • Axil Axil

        Entanglement is a result of the establishment of a strong interface path between two particles whereby their quantum properties can reach a common equilibrium. This is why gamma is only seen in LENR when the system is cold. Cold gamma production is a critical clue to the theory of LENR. A communication path has not been established in a cold system. This also says that LENR requires a sender and a receiver. It also says that LENR can produce effects at a distance from the cause. Such experiments show that LENR produces effects at a distance. An exploding metal wire using arc discharge will cause transmutation far from the location of the explosion.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Hang in there Axil Axil. We may just be slow on the uptake.

      I think it’s time for this again.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWvcwVWCcnY

      • NT

        Beautiful Alan, and Axil Axil your inputs are much appreciated, very important and stimulating…

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Thanks NT.

          Most of my stuff is just a lot of hand waving but I’m having a lot of fun.

  • Gerard McEk

    It is great to hear from Rossi about his rapid development of both the Ecat and the Hot-cat, while we are still struggling to replicate it.
    I wonder where Rossi is doing his developments. A few nights ago I woke up and I thought: AR is on the South Pole (Antartica) heating the containers of the scientists there during the winter including his own. That is why he had to work so hard to get it right before the winter and the probability of discovering who the ‘customer’ is can be ‘managed’! That also explanes why he can’t go away and he has all the time for his new developments. It would be a nice stunt wouldn’t it?

  • Nixter

    Frank, I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph, it summarizes my feelings exactly. With increased comprehension and theoretical understanding, enormous increase’s in the capabilities and performance characteristics of Rossi’s Ecat devices should follow. My advice to Rossi on how to keep ahead of any competitors, now or in the future, is to be well ahead technologically of his competitors, in the design, engineering, and theoretical understanding of his amazing inventions. It was quite sometime ago that Dr. Rossi disclosed the discovery of EMF emanating from his Ecats. At the time he said that generating EMF may not be dependent upon high temperatures, he affirmed that such a thing as a cold cat could be possible. Once he possesses a solid theoretical understanding of the inner workings of his invention, he should be able to tweak the design to produce heat or EMF. It would be nice to have a clarification with regard to industrial heats’s agreement with Dr. Rossi concerning how secretive or open the intellectual property will be in the future, the original low temp Ecat variant will be easier to duplicate, whereas the HotCat and any subsequent variants developed in secret in the last few years will most likely be propriatery in order to maintain an edge against competitors.
    Tom Darden seems to be keen on the idea of helping to spread the technology to help the world, while Dr. Rossi seems to be more interested in pushing the technology forward and working to develop ever more efficient and unique Ecat designs. There is probably an agreement between the two of them that will allow them to each satisfy their unique, individual, (equally laudable), goals. We still have a long wait from now until November 2015 to see what industrial heat and Dr. Rossi have been up to. But I would venture a guess that their disclosure timetable could be bumped up if a potential competitor were to reveal a functioning product before their planned November reveal.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I’ll a little confused about what they mean when they refer to the Mössbauer effect. I don’t think the concept
    applies to intranuclear phenomenon (I could be wrong). In the strictest meaning of the effect it refers to the recoil-free emission and absorption of a gamma ray by atomic nucleus bound in a solid. The massive solid will not recoil. I’ve had my own thoughts (or my own misinterpretations) about the Mössbauer effect
    (or something analogues to the Mössbauer effect) between the metal lattice and the hydride a few years ago. http://coldfusionnow.org/peter-gluck-and-yeong-e-kim-on-lenr-research/ [see my off-topic (as usual) comments]

    • Alan DeAngelis

      PS

      One of many typos in those comments. Although this correction doesn’t make the comment any saner, I meant to say:

      …the INFRARED stretching frequency…

    • Alan DeAngelis

      I’m a little confused. That’s for sure.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        I like the way Rossi thinks. It just takes some time to get it through my thick head. Ok, the atoms are anchored to the lattice so they behave differently from unattached nuclei.

        “Nuclear and high energy physicists seem to be unaware of the fact that phenomena in materials are not always as reproducible as are phenomena in their field. Transistors are
        a good example of variability in solid state devices.”
        -Brian Josephson

        (his comment) http://coldfusionnow.org/michio-kaku-informed-on-new-developments-in-cold-fusion/
        PS
        I’ll try my best not to rag on Michio Kaku from now on. His having to facing the reality of LENR must be difficult enough as it is.

  • Greg Pierce

    The theoretical underpinnings are important and must not be ignored… AR’s ability to juggle multiple balls simultaneously could very well be problematic. His continued use of the phraseology “positive or negative” is curious. Could be a language thing, I guess?

    • GreenWin

      More like all incomplete test cycles will be discussed in public as potentially “positive or negative.” Likely a part of his management agreement.