ICCF-19 Conversations and Impressions (Mats Lewan) [Updated]

The following post was submitted by Swedish author and journalist Mats Lewan

Thursday was my first day at ICCF-19, and it was worth every minute.

Let me first give you a picture of the situation. I quickly understood that ICCF-19 is very different from earlier years. The number of attendees is the double of what had been expected. A total of about 500 people is lot more than in recent years, even though similar numbers have been reached occasionally at ICCF before.

And apart from the number, the most important difference is the significant amount of young people, which is healthy for the field. Or as long-time renowned cold fusion researcher and ICCF organizer Michael McKubre put it: it’s good and bad. The good thing is that new talent is added, the bad thing is that the quality of the questions is lower than usual since many people lack the background that long-timers have gained through the years –- either the don’t ask questions so as not to make a fool out of themselves, or they ask questions and do make a fool out of themselves, he said, jokingly.

However, I think we both agree that the inflow of new people, talent and ideas is more important than any other aspect.

As for the contents and the presentation, another long timer, Jed Rothwell, told me he was disappointed, not seeing anything really new, whereas, McKubre admitted that there was “some progress”.

I found several presentations interesting, and I tweeted about a few during the day. Steven Katinsky presented an expected LENR Industry Association called Lenria.org. Peter Hagelstein presented interesting results from Mitchell Swartz’s experiments with NANOR-type devices, with clear excess heat.

The Russian scientist Alexander Gromov talked on LENR in plasma electrolysis, and later there were presentations of several other Russians: Vladimir Vysotskii gave a talk on transmutation in biological systems with coli bacteria to decrease half-time decay of the dangerous Cs137 isotope in nuclear waste; Igor Vitalievich Goryachev on another method for remediating nuclear waste; and Anatoly Klimov on excess heat and transmutation in plasmoids (plasma + EMF fields), with possible applications in aerodynamics.

It was clear, also talking with several attendees, that the Russians are doing very well in LENR. They reportedly have regular meetings, even monthly, discussing these kind of experiments. Another Russian — Parkhomov — made a presentation in front of his poster, without a microphone, and unfortunately I didn’t hear much, but as far as I understood he presented isotopic changes from his ‘Lugano replication’ experiments. MFMP registered what was said and will probably post it soon. There was also an interesting theory presented by Mark Davidson, including the concept of deviation of rest mass of particles.

I also had the pleasure to speak with several interesting persons I had not earlier met, or not even been in direct contact with.

One of them was Carl Page [brother of Google CEO Larry Page] who is a strong supporter of the field which he knows well, and while talking with me and Robert Godes of Brillouin Energy, Page told me that he had invested in this company, and that he also found Godes’ theory interesting (I got some good briefing from Godes on his technology which I have studied too little before). BTW, Page also confirmed the rumor about him trying to put up a meeting between Rossi and Elon Musk, which I covered in my book, although he was a little sad that Rossi perceived him as a venture capitalist and not an angel investor.

I would say the Page is a good force for the cold fusion field, and he also told me that he knows Tom Darden of Cherokee/Industrial Heat and respected him much for his way of thinking and his view on how the field could be developed with some kind of ecosystem with mutual agreements on intellectual property.

As a whole it was clear that there’s a lot of positive energy (!)getting into the cold fusion community, and it’s good to remember that there’s so many experienced people having done research for decades, when we’re getting closer to the day when working devices and processes are around, producing data that can finally serve for that solid, accepted theory which the field needs to advance further.

UPDATE: I forgot a few comments

– It’s clear that several investors and industrial companies are getting into the field. That’s a new thing.

– Energiforsk (used to be Elforsk) was represented to gain information and knowledge in the field.

– After discussions with several persons, adding my own sources, I conclude that there probably is good awareness of the latest LENR technology development at the political top level in the following countries: USA, China, Russia, France, Saudi-Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and gradually also India and maybe Japan.

  • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

    I forgot a few comments (maybe you could update the text above Frank).

    – It’s clear that several investors and industrial companies are getting into the field. That’s a new thing.

    – Energiforsk (used to be Elforsk) was represented to gain information and knowledge in the field.

    – After discussions with several persons, adding my own sources, I conclude that there probably is good awareness of the latest LENR technology development at the political top level in the following countries:
    USA, China, Russia, France, Saudi-Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and gradually also India and maybe Japan.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks, Mats. I have added these comments. I’m a little surprised Sweden did not make your list.

      • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

        There are some people in the Swedish parliament following the Rossi story, but as a whole there’s low awareness. The government recently nominated an energy commission to design a national energy policy valid until 2050.
        They apparently know nothing about LENR. I will try to contact them.

        • ecatworld

          From the link you provided:

          The work will be conducted in three phases:
          A knowledge-gathering phase, where the Commission considers and selects scenarios for energy supply by 2050,
          An analytical phase where the impact of various scenarios studied and proposed regulatory changes are produced
          A negotiation phase, when the Commission agree on the main points of an energy-political agreement.

          I hope in knowledge gathering, they come across cold fusion/LENR

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Would it be asking too much to have the “political top” share what they know about LENR with the rabble?

    • Josh G

      Great, Mats, excellent coverage and thanks for your thoughts. 2 questions:

      1. In spite of Lowell Woods’ statements about disinformation, he did go with Gates to ENEA where Vittorio Violante and others presented (and demonstrated?) LENR. So Woods is privy to some inside knowledge about that trip and the extent of Gates’ interest (and maybe intentions) with regard to LENR. Maybe you can ask him questions about that, even if he is at ICCF ‘on his own’ ?

      2. You mentioned Goryachev’s presentation on a 10MW ‘Tiger’ reactor. Could you provide a few more details about that? Sounds significant. Or is it more about power from waste?

      Thanks again!

      • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

        1. I didn’t have much time with Wood — he didn’t seem to want to talk much, and was quite careful.
        2. They said that for now it was mostly a paper tiger… So we’ll have to wait and see.

        • Josh G

          OK. Thanks for answering, Mats! Finally got around to buying and reading your book. Couldn’t put it down. Definitely recommend.

  • Omega Z

    I’ll start by saying much thanks to Mats Lewan. I always look forward to what he has to say.

    “Jed Rothwell, told me he was disappointed, not seeing anything really new,”

    I’m sure 5 years ago, Jed would have had a different view. After what has transpired in the last 4 years, yeah, Kind of boring.

    ICCF is what it is. A conference for sharing incremental gains & information. If you want to see action, go to a Demolition Derby. Absolutely no denigration intended. We have in fact been privy to a lot of action from several directions the last 4 years. Obviously, ICCF would be boring in contrast. Maybe they should in the future, allow 1 day for demonstrations tho that probably has safety liability issues.

    What I do find interesting is the people who attended. Gates, Page, among others. Discussed here at ECW many times is where are the Movers & Shakers. What we can surmise is that they are watching closely & to an unknown extent, providing some funding.

    From Dardens speech, we can also be reasonably confident that many others are also silently involved. China was just 1 that slipped out. Darden is silent in the MSM, but working behind closed doors.

    We know from past statements that Siemens is aware & if they are aware, you can be confident that GE & many others in their realm are aware. It’s a competitive business. It’s their Job to be aware of each others business.

    Just because it isn’t in all the MSM, doesn’t men people of importance aren’t aware. Their just waiting for a confirmed working product. Hopefully, we will see that about 1 year from now.

    • ecatworld

      The reports about Bill Gates attending turned out just to be rumors. But I did hear that Lowell Wood, his science advisor was there.

      • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

        I talked with Lowell Wood and he said he was attending alone, not connected with anyone, and specifically said that the connection with Gates was disinformation.

        • Buck

          With humor, I can comfortably say that when Lowell Wood is asked by Bill Gates about his trip to Italy, Lowell will only say that the espresso with a lemon twist is good . . . but they still can’t boil water for a cup of tea. 😉

          I think it fair to say that Gates will be kept informed. Don’t you?

      • Omega Z

        Burst my bubble.
        Oh well. Mats added more fuel for a good outlook.

    • Andy Kumar

      “Jed Rothwell, told me he was disappointed, not seeing anything really new.”
      “We have in fact been privy to a lot of action from several directions the last 4 years..”

      You sure know how to put a good spin on it. Lot of action, but we are kind of staying where we were. Hopefully, it will change with the publication of 1MW reactor report at the end of the year.

      For now, it feels like Alice in Wonderland. “Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!”

      The key to “running twice as fast” is Rossi sharing some of his insights with other researchers. Two minds are better than one.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The biological transmutations are interesting. Could the NAE be microtubules?
    Fröhlich oscillations in microtubules.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      H(1) + Cs(137) > He(4) + Xe(134) 6.44 MeV ?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      I must have OCD.
      Could it have something in common with the nano-silver decontamination of Cs(137) process that

      Dr. Shin Iwasaki and Dr. Norio Abe discovered?

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      I see two possible link with other LENR domains.

      one is you microtubile compared to single wall graphene tube

      another is the discrete breather well known in proteins and DNA, that may be the origin of LENR in solids…

  • Mats Hilmersson

    Mats, why not take the opportunity to approach Parkhomov with a suggestion to meet? The setup could be something like 60 minutes did. Find a new Robert Duncan, a well respected sceptic from the establishment. Perhaps start with this list http://www.kva.se/sv/kontakt/Ledamoter/Fysik/ of people that assign the Nobel prize. Find the best measurement technician/engineer from SP or Intertek. Team up and visit Parkhomov and make a measurement. Elforsk could pay the tickets. I think McKubre was impressed with how 60 minutes worked.

    • Josh G

      Big difference, because Parkhomov’s work can be easily criticized on a number of fronts. Not that his work is bad, but he just doesn’t have the resources and lab setup that Energetics had (that was the company whose work Duncan assessed in 60 minutes, and then later brought to the US at U of Missouri). Energetics was a well-funded lab that had spent nearly a decade working on LENR by the time CBS came around. I doubt Parkhomov’s work and results would be likely to pass genuinely skeptical (as opposed to skepto-pathic) scrutiny.

      • Mats Hilmersson

        I didn’t mean copy but just get inspired by 60 minutes.

  • bachcole

    I just thought a couple of days ago of an easy way to test for the biological transmutation of elements. A negative result would not prove anything one way or the other. A positive result would be Earth-shaking.

    It is very common for people to ferment their own veggies. I do it. I am doing it right now. I juice my celery and then take both the juice and the pulp and put it in a jar that will allow for the outflow of gas but no inflow. This part is not rocket nor LENR science. This is probably the best way to ferment. (Now you all know; it is very helpful for gut micribiota; ain’t it cool how I sneaked some health advice into the discussion.)

    But before the experimenter puts the juice and pulp into the jar, they take a sample, like perhaps 15 grams, and do one of those gas spectrometry test thingies. This will give a profile of all of the elements. Then let the fermentation go for about a month and do the very same gas spectrometry test again. If biological transmutations is bogus, then there would be no difference between the before and after. If biological transmutation is real, then there could be a difference between the before and the after, in which case you just did a very easily reproducible experiment that would shake the physics community to it’s foundations. If biological transmutation is real, then there may be no difference between the before and the after, in which case all you got is some excellent home-made fermented celery.

  • Gerrit

    Thank you Mats for the report and the tweets.

    • Freethinker

      Yes indeed. Thanks!

  • Sanjeev

    This ICCF has surely become a historical one with big names joining the LENR bandwagon and coming forward in clear daylight. The presence of Page Jr. is important and its a good news that he has already invested in BEC. I remember that in an old interview Godes himself mentioned that Google was interested in their tech. I’m not sure if its Google as a corporation or a personal investment of Page Jr.

    The main strength of events like ICCF is that people get a chance to meet face to face and get to know others. The papers and science talk is not the only purpose. I think the frequency of ICCF can be increased now, more people are interested, some didn’t even get a chance to present. Notably the founder of NeoFire is not there I guess (forgot his name).

    • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

      Neofire is here. I will talk to Peter Björkbom tomorrow.