Tom Darden of Industrial Heat to Speak at ICCF19

Many thanks to We Want Fusione Fredda for pointing out some new speakers on the ICCF19 program for Monday Morning. Here’s the speaker’s roster for the program on Monday Morning:


The big news to me is that Tom Darden, chairman of Industrial Heat, is going to be stepping in front of an audience at a public meeting to (presumably) talk about the E-Cat.

So far, Industrial Heat has been very quiet in public, and this is a major step to have him show up at a meeting specifically about cold fusion, where I am sure he will be getting lots of attention, and plenty of questions if he has time for them. Andrea Rossi has always declined to participate in these kinds of meeting, which has made him somewhat of an outsider in LENR circles. Perhaps Darden and Industrial Heat have decided it is time to build some bridges and get involved with the community where his company could well be considered the leader in the field.

  • Omega Z

    It was recent, like a few weeks ago I saw MY ranting scam Etc…

  • InterestedCitizen

    Does someone know if there will be live video streams of ICCF-19 meetings ???

  • Can’t remember. This shows how fast such guys are forgotten.

  • Mats Hilmersson

    I think the primary reason for Darden to show up is to ease the path for getting their pending parents granted. What IH needs is more academic acceptance. ICCF may be the best option available.

  • Agaricus

    I would like it to be a brewery – not sure why. Some more possibles: Food, drink or confectionery production, milk pasteurisation, oil refining or shale oil extraction, chemicals manufacture, laundries, biofuel production, bulk sterilisation, paper making, plastics and rubber production, HP boiler feedwater heating, injection moulding, reconstituted timber manufacture (plywood/MDF), bulk electroplating, pharmaceutical manufacturing, hothouses, space heating, desalination plant.

    • Omega Z

      You had my attention at brewery.
      Then you lost me. 🙂

  • Ged

    That would be ideal!

  • h_corey

    Fibb, you have too many seats. :- )

  • Sanjeev

    Unless you know him personally, I do not understand your logic. Do you mean he will take the trouble to go to ICCF, spend money and time, just to say its delayed? He can do that without getting up from his chair.
    If not something extraordinary, he may have some simple intention of attending ICCF, like meeting with people, hiring, or grabbing new investors etc. He is a CEO, and CEO’s generally do not announce failures or delays with fanfare.

    • Agaricus

      I think Alex may be trying to make a ‘point’ that has little place here, as Bachcole suggests.

  • Private Citizen

    MPB: ” Lenr is being accepted by mss all over the world”

    The MSS is still 99.99999% in the mode of tarring CF, reverberating still from the campaign against Pons and Fleischmann. There is a trickle of guarded positive news here and there, but as in the case of Forbes, the reporter sometimes ends up fired for the heresy.

  • I expect this to be an historical version of ICCF, in the meaning that it will be the last year before commercially viable LENR will be publicly known. I no longer have any doubts that the ongoing 1 MW trial by IH and Rossi is going well and that they will be ready to announce and demonstrate this, as Rossi says, at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. At that point there will be no more discussions.

    This means that any other effort to prove viable LENR for energy production now has a time window of less than a year.
    After that point, if not earlier, focus will be to explain the process theoretically, based on significant amounts of real data (i don’t think we’re there yet). Only with a solid theoretical model, further engineering can be made in an efficient way. Next step will also be development of new applications. I would expect some competitions being launched next year, with specific goals set, to encourage such application development.

    • Private Citizen

      Maximum respect to you Mats, and so guardedly disagreeing, why will the world believe Rossi has a working 1MW plant in the fall when the mere presence of himself at Lugano set off howls of fraud?

      When the skeptics doubt controlled scientific measurements made by a team of eminent scientists, how will an electric bill and the fact that Rossi was camped out at the plant 24/7 serve as proof?

      • Tom Darden is a business man. Everything matters is money.
        If this plant safes the money of it’s owner, this is proof enough to be economical.

        And if lots of people buy such a plant and report that it safes their money, even the last skeptic will become interested in it.

        • bachcole

          And remember if the current customer is happy with his savings, then he might just want to expand his business, now that he has some “extra” profit. And he can cut his prices to his customers, and attract new customers. And eventually, he (or she) will completely dominate his market. This is why I keep calling it an unstoppable juggernaut. It may not be as fast as we want it to be, but it is relentless.

          • timycelyn

            Agrree totally. This will happen on a scale of individual businesses, then industries, then countries. At times, it will become a mad scramble, and delaying even a few months may, in certain circumstances, prove disastrous for the businesses involved….

            No businessman can afford to play ostrich, but some countries may…..

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          Respectfully, even though IH is about money, I heard a different message from Darden: in his speech he does not say he was inspired and moved by money. Listening to his words one would think that the end is not economical, but rather a pledge to this planet.
          “When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last
          river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money”.
          Obviously, we all wish him (and the LENR sector) the largest economic success possible!

      • Sanjeev

        You are talking about the skeptics who are of the pathoskeptic variety, by definition, they do not want to be convinced, period. Why worry and waste time on such useless people ? Even if by luck, you convince a few of them, are they going to add any value ?

        Our target should be smart people who can think for themselves, who have means to take it forward, who can experiment, theorize, build things and do mass production. Such people, if convinced will add huge value. If a working 1 MW plant can convince even one such person against 100 pathos, it would serve its purpose.

        • timycelyn

          Agree totally about the pathoskeps. Who cares – once money is to be made, then ‘Money talks, and pathoskep BS walks….”.

          These poor souls – whatever the precise reason for their increasingly obsessive dysfunctionality – are set to become this century’s flat earthers. Wiith about as much relevance and credibility. We may see one or two with placards protesting outside Home Depot and B&Q, when we go in to get our new ECAT furnaces in a few years time, but most will quietly melt away into the darker corners of the internet.

          Of course, those puffed up academics like Pomp, who have publicly identified themselves with an academic pathoskep position, will have a somewaht harder row to hoe over the next couple of years. Should be quite fun to watch…..

          • bachcole

            Yes, even MaryYugo can slink away and change his/her handle. But Pomp is in serious yogurt.

      • bachcole

        I am not Mats Lewan, and I don’t even pretend to play him on television, but I think that you may have a partial truth. An electric bill and a genuine capitalist who anyone can look up on the Internet is going to carry more weight than just “Rossi say” and a handful of professors who have tested the E-Cat twice. But it may not be complete destruction of the dam of LENR incredulity that we are all hoping for. But it will get more people’s attention.

        And, of course, there will be more businesses who want to save money, and there will be more replications.

      • Omega Z

        If at the end of the test of the Pilot plant, all is positive, It wont matter what the skeptics think. I will be Darden/Industrial heat/Cherokee talking to business people.

        Obviously, these business people will look at the evidence & involve their own experts with due diligence & if the like & believe what they see, business will take over. The skeptics will be left flapping their lips in the dark void of nothingness.

    • pg

      Hi Mats, do you have more inside info beside what we are all witnessing?

    • LuFong

      “Only with a solid theoretical model, further engineering can be made in an efficient way”

      Which is why I think Rossi is disclosing elements (fuel/ash analysis, theory, operation) of his E-Cat. IH/Rossi would stand to benefit the most at this time with a theoretical model however derived. It appears to me that Rossi is looking for a better/more refined theoretical model.

      • Yes, this is the first step to be taken seriously.

        Maybe the management of IH is making pressure to Rossi to disclose as much information as is needed to scientifically prove that the effect exists.

        • US_Citizen71

          More likely a calculated preplanned approach. You don’t end up controlling a fund worth billions by doing things off the cuff on a regular basis.

          • bachcole

            Darden has already proven to us that he is not an “off the cuff” sort of guy. While we the peanut gallery have been writhing in joy and uncertainty and acting like lunatics about LENR, he has been as quiet as an intelligence agent.

      • clovis ray

        HI,Lu,, i believe, that he also believes, that when the truth is arrived at,we will then see that this heat enomaly is only the tip of the iceberg, and all of us that have did our homework, could be on the cusp of pyrimidine change, as mister Darden has said. with all kind of different things being discovered.

    • greg

      “it will be the last year before commercially viable LENR”
      LENR/CF enthusiasts have been saying this for the last 10 years. Wait and see.

      • Warthog

        ‘S Funny, but I’ve been an “LENR/CF enthusiast” since 1989, and have NEVER heard any LENR researcher make any such statement.

        Now, the “Hot Fusion” guys have been saying “success is just around the corner”, and for a LOT longer than 10 years.

    • rats123

      What makes you so confident Mats? Do you have any concrete evidence?

    • ecatworld

      “I no longer have any doubts that the ongoing 1 MW trial by IH and Rossi is going well”

      Thanks Mats — I agree.

  • US_Citizen71

    I believe colloquially it is referred to as ‘sour grapes’.

  • wpj

    No chance. Brick kilns need about 1000C. Also, they use industrial waste solvent for the heating (at least that’s where mine goes); with chlorinated solvents the temperature has to be at least 1000C to decompose them.

    • TPaign

      Not so fast. I wouldn’t say “no chance”. They don’t solely use industrial waste solvent as the fuel, and in the last 30 years the burning of “still bottoms” has been largely moved to offshore cement manufacturers without the EPA to worry about. Merely speculating, one could use the e-cat energy to preheat the clay materials prior to firing. A BTU is a BTU, and if even a fraction of total BTU needed is cheaper and cleaner, there is net savings.

      • Sanjeev

        From the pictures, one can see that its producing steam. I’m no brick expert but I can’t see why it would need steam at 100C only.

        • Omega Z

          For bricks you need heat. Steam is bad for bricks & if they should absorb any of that steam they will have exploding results.

      • wpj

        By “no chance” I was meaning that the pictures that we have seen indicate that it is generating steam which would put a limit of 150-200C on the temperature obtained.

        My own feeling would be in food industries such as canning or bread making (all seem to use 180C steam nowadays so that they don’t burn the bread- but it really doesn’t taste the same)

        I think that it would be difficult to measure fuel savings if it was for brick kiln pre-heating. As for solvent use in brick making, i am talking from a UK perspective where this still happens- probably a result of our electricity/gas prices being three times that of the US.

    • Warthog

      Preheating the incoming air used for combustion will reduce fuel usage by exactly the number of kilowatts provided by the e-cat. Given the HUGE amounts of power brick kilns need, very likely worth doing.

  • Patrick Ellul

    Rossi’s first customer is probably Darden’s brick manufacturing business which he sold a while back:

  • 100% SSM isn’t possible at all. You still need energy for the control electronics and heating elements.

    • Robert Ellefson

      The energy for control and stimulus could come from the reactor itself easily enough with a high COP. However, 100% SSM would imply no inherent decay in the reaction output level, which could make for a difficult control system, and no fail-safe shutdown mode except total meltdown. If a reaction attenuation control mode exists, then 100% SSM may be possible, but still perhaps not desireable. I suspect the best solution will be reached with a small inherent decay, coupled with low-energy stimulus (eg EMF only, no heat), and good thermal management that provides fail-safe shutdown. A reaction damping mechanism other than heat reduction would be very useful, and greatly simplify the control system overall, I suspect.

      • Sanjeev

        Or many E-Cats can be operated in load sharing mode at 100% ssm. If one or two of them starts to cool, the other E-Cats can feed some extra current to bring it online. You can also use batteries to store extra energy, which can be used to restart any cold E-Cats in the group. Batteries will make a complicated real time control system unnecessary, they will act as a buffer of energy.

  • Barbierir

    This is a thing that most of us were waiting for. As a minimum I hope he says that IH is fully behind Rossi and also confirms what Rossi has been writing in his blog. That would be enough for me 🙂

  • I hope too.

    But I suspect that it will be the usual business chatter about how to enter the market, PR and other nontechnical and unspecific things.

    But I still hope to be positively surprised 🙂

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    IMHO live feed today should be the norm for such conferences…
    Or which would be the reasons not to live stream, press rights?

  • I am strongly convinced in both LENR and Industrial Heat as you likely know. However it is important to stay objective and call ’em like I sees ’em. Is anything I said untrue? I’m just saying that Darden could say what we all hope he says or he could say something like “We’re looking at investing in this area. Thanks for inviting me. Who’s next?” Our perceptions don’t always align with reality in this crazy and important drama.

  • Curbina

    This is definitively something to be on the look for. Thanks for getting us to know this.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Perhaps you missed my context. I was suggesting a respectful approach for Tom towards the LENR community, followed by an “inspirational moment in time of epic proportions” that he uniquely can sieze.

    I did not specify the terms on which the reactors would be given other than the purpose of the gift – I did not specify who would most ultimately benefit from the work – other than everybody on the planet, from the point of view of having the energy source nailed as fast as possible for roll out.

    There is no taking away from the fact that Rossi has worked hard and rightly deserves credit for the unique contribution of the new reaction matrix evident in the Lugano report – I only hope that IH has submitted a patent on it (Molten Li – Al – H with Nickel particles in solution vapour Li etc) should the device be proven to work as indicated.

    In another post below, I said that it would be a good fit for Bill Gates to give Cherokee a 100+:1 return on their capital and faith invested in Rossi after due diligence.