Cranking up the Heat in an LENR Experiment [Update: Full Report by Brian Albiston, aka Wishful Thinking Fusion]

UPDATE: A full report of the experiment mentioned below by Brian Albiston (aka Wishful Thinking Fusion) report has been published, including pictures and charts, here: http://www.hydrogenfusion.blogspot.no/2015/04/results-of-parkhomov-replication.html

His conclusions:

Only after reviewing the data did I realize how dramatic the temperature increase had been. If the temperature reading was accurate (and that is a big if) then the rate of temperature increase was spectacular. On the above plot you can see the natural asymptotic rate of temperature increase when the power was increased to 325W, then at ~1900 sec the temperature jumps 25C in a matter of seconds. Again when the temperature was increased to ~335W the rate of temperature increase is incredible. It is possible that this data is the result of a thermocouple near death, but if it is accurate then it shows extraordinary excess heat. Only further testing will make that clear.

I thought this post by Wishful Thinking Fusion this was an interesting thing to highlight here. It was made in response to Hank Mills’ article here:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/04/08/rossi-defines-high-temperature-e-cat-recipe-hank-mills/

Hank, I think your comments are dead on. Based on your constant calls for higher temperatures I decided to throw caution to the wind and turn up the heat way past my heater manufacturer’s spec on my heretofore lifeless reactor last night….and interesting things happened. I can’t give many details until I get home tonight but here are some teasers:

https://plot.ly/~fear_nuts/43/april-4th-7th-reactor-1/

https://plot.ly/~fear_nuts/39/april-7th-reactor-1-tc-failure/

(Click on the links to see charts and data)

  • maxscipio

    WTE, any news on your side?

  • John Page

    Wishful,
    Going through an exercise to see if there was any information missing for someone else to reproduce your attempt. I believe the only thing missing is the length of the central void where the fuel resided. Your pictures show a couple of marks on the tube that look about 4 inches apart, but the exact size would be good to know.
    Thanks

    • Wishful Thinking Energy

      The central void was 3″. There is also a significant empty volume in the plumbing tee, nipple, and ball valve.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have sent the Parkhomov Ni.

    • Wishful Thinking Energy

      Thank you Bob. I’m humbled to be entrusted with it.

  • georgehants

    Certainly time for Mr, Rossi to give out more practical basic information to help those attempting to replicate Cold Fusion.
    He is seemingly caught in a capitalist net that is potentially costing thousands of lives.
    The same applies to all secret knowledge of the Technology held by any establishment or commercial organizations.
    Cold Fusion does not need Bill Gates or anybody else that only thinks of profits for the few as with the Windows program etc. he is the richest man in the World and the relative few pennies he gives away mean absolutely nothing but ego massage.
    Cold Fusion needs complete open freedom to allow non-profit organizations to be able to manufacture small devices able to save lives.

    • Alberonn

      Right again, George, for 80-90 % : replications will happen, scores… But we’ll still need a bit of capitalism to get usefull, reliable applications in the world. A lot of people will get rich all around the world if they get the job properly done… Not one big BILL, a lot of little Billies, for the benefit of the world…

    • Obvious

      There are more than sufficient means to save lives right now, without magic bullets like LENR.
      How to get people off of their duffs and start doing something is the problem. Technology does not cure laziness and apathy. Technology may provide assistance to the causes of the world, but is not the answer to the world’s grief. The greatest untapped energy source is locked in the unused potential energy of seat warmers, couch sloths, and the repetitive self-orbiting motions of the disinterested the world over. Talk minus action equals zero, no matter what tools are available.

      • georgehants

        Obvious, so the people throughout the World who are dying daily from being unable to afford drugs etc. are just the people you describe above?
        All their own fault that they are paid pennies to work for the commodities that we enjoy in the West.
        You may enjoy reading the link below.
        ——–
        Cocoa prices and income of farmers
        Share in the global added value
        Chocolate manufacturing is a thriving business, in which big
        companies make high profits. While these companies are competing for
        ever higher market shares and higher profits, millions of cocoa farmers
        bear the costs by getting less and less share from the revenues. In
        2014 the total global retail value sales of chocolate confectionery
        reached a staggering 100 billion dollars – an increase of 20 billion
        from 2012*.
        http://makechocolatefair.org/issues/cocoa-prices-and-income-farmers-0

        • Obvious

          Did you read my post with an open mind, or did you read what you preconceived that I wrote?

          • georgehants

            Obvious, I as always fully read your reply and put up Evidence showing your view to be fundamentally in error, I even added a link as I always do to show my argument, I can do no more.
            Best.

            • Obvious

              I believe that you made the fundamental error of assuming that I meant that those in need are seat warmers, couch sloths, and self interested. Nothing could be further from my intent. If you had exercised some conversational generosity, you would have realized that I meant the people that most often have the means and ability to help, should they so choose, but for whatever reason, they do not.

              • georgehants

                Obvious, I certainly apologise for any mistake I ever make, I would ask you to reread your comment and understand in conjunction to my original comment, that one could take it that you where referring to those in need.
                I apologise again for my error and welcome your important response.
                Many thanks.

                • Obvious

                  I humbly accept your apology, and myself apologize if my comment was unclear in its meaning. Perhaps the minor differences between our versions of English language structure add some level of confusion. I am often criticized for being overly specific in my writings. Also typing on this pad makes me a bit more loose than I would normally be with language, because editing what I write on it is often onerous, requiring jumping into and out of the text box repeatedly, with the box zipping off the screen view frequently, making me more reluctant to go back and tidy up what I wrote.

                • georgehants

                  Obvious, Ha, I think that is twice now we have misunderstood each other when we where really agreeing on an issue, I promise to read all your repays five times to be as sure as I can that I am not misunderstanding.
                  Best

  • Andre Blum

    Kudos, Brian!

    Frank, when on april 4 you wrote:

    “For example, I have spoken with a replicator this week (previously unknown to me) who reports getting results similar to Parkhomov in his testing, and who told me he plans to share his experimental findings openly in a report which he hopes will put a spotlight on LENR and encourage others to replicate. From what I am told, it won’t be too long before we can see it, within the month, I hope.”

    Did you refer to Brian?

    • Sanjeev

      No. (See his reply below). Which is a good news, there is one more.

  • Private Citizen

    Wishful Thinking Energy I bow down to your initiative, creativity, resourcefulness, perseverance. You sir are a macho LENR geek engineer extraordinaire. Am amazed and gladdened by people like you, with great credit to Rossi for having similar mettle (and metal :-).

    You write about testing for neutrons on your blog. Believe i remember reading the the Navy SPAWAR folks used a CR-39 plastic (eyeglass plastic) wherein neutrons leave impact pits and trails.

    • US_Citizen71

      I may be wrong but I believe the easiest way for a hobbyist to detect neutrons would be to detect the gammas they create when they impact something dense like steel or lead.

  • Axil Axil

    I believe that it is advantages to use a pulsed current source to provide a pressure/temperature/magnetic impulse to begin the formation of nano particles in the lithium/hydrogen gas. If you are unconvinced of this waveform posit, remember if the variac fails to produce results, please try the experiment again using the dimmer..

  • Bob Greenyer

    MFMP members have been impressed by the level of open detail and get go ingenuity demonstrated by Brian Albiston in his work and write-up.

    We have agreed to send him tomorrow 2g of Parkhomov Ni powder and to assist him, if he wishes, in conducting experiments live.

    We already have his address as he was the first person to put his name forward for 3 standardised 1550ºC SiC heating elements we propose that will enable experimentalists to run long term experiments in air and allow room for overshoot, rapid cooling and magnetic fields. They will also allow different experiments to be compared more closely and a standardised control regime to be developed.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5PJ3HHQ

    It has been designed specifically for this kind of experiment, even for the size of reactor tube that Alan Goldwater and Brian Albiston have used.

    We have interest in 16 units so far, we need to reach 50 units to hit the first major price break point (being in excess of 100 and 200 units will lower the price much further). If anyone is interested, please express it via the link above.

    • bfast

      You guys rock! Love your level of cooperation.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Just off to post the Parkhomov Ni now.

        We have now received requests from 9 researchers for 23 elements. Given that we would want at least 12 extras for internal testing and transit breakages, we are not far from reaching a number that will allow us to get a run of 50 done, that would bring down the cost from $300 each to under $250 each. If we can hit 100, it will drop again significantly.

  • Daniel Maris

    Excellent and fascinating work. Sounds like Brian might be zeroing in on some interesting phenomena. Let’s hope so! 🙂

  • LuFong

    “I was then called away to brush kids teeth”, LOL.

  • bfast

    Ooooh, exciting!

  • Gerard McEk

    Congratulations Brian Good work! Maybe it is time now to buy some R or S type thermocouples? I know they are expensive, but you are writing history, like Parkhomov and Rossi!

  • Mr. Moho

    Surprisingly good report and the reactor setup looks clean too. Good job!
    Logging in an automated manner changes in input power would be useful for future reference too.

    • Mr. Moho

      When input power got increased to about 340W, reported temperatures started increasing at a rate approximately 12 times steeper than that at 325W. This is what would have happened assuming no melting and an unabated linear temperature increase to the settling temperature for that input power setting:

      http://i.imgur.com/n8vTd9u.png

      In reality, temperature must have stopped increasing somewhere between the failure temperature of the thermocouple (1400 °C) and the melting point of the alumina tube (2072 °C), since it clearly didn’t melt or even deform, apparently.

      • Sanjeev

        What is the behavior of a TC when operating at temperature limits ? Will it show higher or lower readings than actual ? What do experts say ?

        • Obvious

          Depends on the meter. Might just go out of calibration range, since the voltage curve needs to fit a calculation or table. Should work to the end, and even liquified at the junction, as long as the meter can do the values.
          I was thinking that braiding the two leads, and wrapping tight around the tube (only the braided part) might give a bit more life. The voltage is developed between the hot end and the cold end, not at the junction itself.
          The junction must be intact, however.

        • Mr. Moho

          The junction voltage of Type K thermocouples should slightly taper off at their temperature limit. However, as Obvious said, the reported temperature value really depends on the how the meter behaves beyond its intended usage range.

          http://www.maximintegrated.com/en/images/appnotes/5032/5032Fig05.gif

          • Obvious

            Large diameter TC wire is available in short lengths like 12″ in packs of five. It can be a pain to work with, being rather stiff. Connect to proper and much cheaper extension wire with ceramic TC couplers, with a heat shield at this point. With ceramic fibre or twin tube insulation on the main TC section, this should be reliable to 1200C long term, so should hold up fairly well at higher temps for the length of most experiments. Possibly much longer. Small diameter wire just won’t live long over about 1000 C. What the meter does over 1200 C can be verified by carefully applying the appropriate voltage to the meter and seeing what it is displaying. ThIs can be difficult, depending on skill and equipment. The actual TC voltage can vary from one TC to another above 1300C by as much as the equivalent of +/- 10 degrees. Special limit wire might cut that in half, but could easily double the cost.
            I suspect Dr. Parkhomov avoids TC failure by keeping the temperature to around 1200 C maximum. He may have high heater coil meltdown rates if his TC goes open and the temperature controller thinks it is suddenly zero degrees, and cranks up the power. A good circuit will detect the open and shut down, but that takes some engineering or specialized equipment. This can be accomplished by using a base voltage signal with the TC signal superimposed, but negates using standard TC meters. The base voltage needs to be very noise free. Alternating resistance and voltage measurements work also, but is probably more difficult to design. I’m not sure how complicated his thermostat system is: we don’t have much info on that part of his experiments.

            • Sanjeev

              There is another way, to use the TC signal fed to a solid state relay in series with the power supply. On failure, the SSR will cut off all power. This will also make the setup a bit expensive.

          • Sanjeev

            Thanks for the graph. It looks like the TC will work faithfully till 1300°C. But the spike happened beyond 1300. He did use another TC at a cooler spot, but we don’t have the data from that.

            • Mr. Moho

              It appears that the maximum practical short term temperature limit for most Type K thermocouples is about 1250 °C, however. The maximum continuous temperature is often quoted being at even lower temperatures depending on the sheath material
              and construction. See here for example: http://www.thermometricscorp.com/thertypk.html

              I would repeat the experiment with the thermocouple placed on a cooler spot.

    • Mr. Moho

      On a second thought, I see it’s possible that the thermocouple stopped measuring temperatures correctly at about 1230 °C. If we accept that as the settling temperature for the 325W power step, then we can see it fits the expected temperature rise trend, assuming no excess heat:

      http://i.imgur.com/Schl2gS.png

      • Obvious

        Hmmm. You may be right. More work needs to be done. I am experimenting with sources of thermocouple error, so that these can be addressed effectively. I think thermometry can be very effective, once the sources of uncertainty can be dealt with as best as reasonably possible. Once excess temperature can be safely isolated from other mundane causes, then calorimetry can be attempted, which has more complex problems to be dealt with. But thermometry can be made to work well on its own, and is much more in the reach of most experimenters than good calorimetry. So working out problems and fixes for thermometry is in the best interest of the LENR experimenter community.

  • Obvious

    Well done!
    You seem to be skilled, and know what needs to be adjusted to get better results and reliable data, so I don’t have a list of suggestions beyond my earlier notes on the thermocouple.

  • Wishful Thinking Fusion

    I’ve updated my blog with a full report of the test:

    http://www.hydrogenfusion.blogspot.com/

    Suggestions for improvement and constructive criticism is welcome.

    • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

      Hi Brian: Are you in the US? If yes: Maybe you can organize a meeting with Alan Goldwater and exchange or measure your reactor with his equipment?

      • Wishful Thinking Fusion

        Hi Barty, great idea. I did just recently upgrade my data logging capabilities with a Labjack T7 Pro, Watts Up Pro, and 1000 psig pressure transducer. Future tests should have less hand written data points. It will take me a couple of weeks to get it up and running though.

    • Bob Matulis

      I recommend using the Parkhomov method of energy production measurement (boiling off water). If the thermocouple burns out, energy produced can still be tracked compared to power in by measuring the amount of water boiled

      • Wishful Thinking Fusion

        That’s the plan once I have a stable reactor. Any ideas for a double boiler that can fit a 14″ long reactor?

    • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

      Why not try this fuel formula.

      Approximate percentages – Maybe less LiAlH4 depending on your pressure calculations.

      50% nickel powder 99.999% pure

      10% LiAlH4

      10% carbon dust

      30% pure iron dust

      • Svein Arild Utne

        Why do you want to use carbon dust?
        If it is for production of CO2 just to get the oxygen out of the way, Aluminium might be better, but you want to make vacuum, so you can lower the boiling point of lithium. So you do not want any gas except Hydrogen when you are in the range 700-1400 degrees Celsius. Aluminum will boil at a lower temp than Lithsium, so you do not want more aluminum than needed to get the Nitrogen and Oxygen out of the gas phase. This is just my guessing.

        • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

          The fuel tests in Switzerland showed carbon. There must be a reason to use it. I am sure some big corporations are using different formulas to find their own blend. At this stage, nothing is written in stone, and your idea might work. I have done no tests myself, but only guessing from available information. I would try to replicate the Rossi device, not the Russian device.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Very nice work, WTF, thank you for that! What do you think about placing the thermocouples on the outer surface of the heater? You would probably need plenty of excess heat from the reactor until you see a significant difference, but the results would be more reliable, I guess.

      • Wishful Thinking Fusion

        I think I need to change my handle. I’m not sure I want to be known as “WTF”.

        The Watlow heater tube is an extremely good insulator. That is why I’m able to get to the 1200C range with only 300W. It would be interesting to have a thermocouple on the outside as an additional data point, but I’m guessing the time constant is extremely slow.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Oops… Not being a native English speaker, I had overlooked possible misinterpretations of the abbreviation. An additional thermocouple on the outside might be a good idea.

        • bachcole

          Yeah, when I first saw you handle, I thought that perhaps you were some kind of skeptopath. You should change it to “Free Fusion”. (:->)

        • artefact

          how about Wishful Thinking Heater 🙂 “WTH”

          After you commented that your reactor is not as good as MFMPs I was not expecting a setup as good as yours is now. Good work!

    • Josh G

      Nice write-up and seems like a really ingenious set-up. Maybe you should consider joining the ranks of MFMP. I especially like how you MacGuyvered a glove box. I only wish I had the technical skills to tinker like this. Keep up the amazing work!

    • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

      PS Is this the nickel powder you used? Please submit link if you used a different source.

      http://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-99-999-Pure-Nickel-Ni-Metal-Flak-Powder-Reagent-ETK-/181695492807

      • Wishful Thinking Fusion
        • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

          I don’t think that is a pure enough by a long shot.

          • Mr. Moho

            What if the impurities actually matter?

            • Mats002

              Here is a guy that think so: impurities matter.

              Need to watch this video almost to the end to here his conclusion.

              http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/26/always-open-e-cat-world-thread/#comment-1951960443

            • Sanjeev

              In any case it becomes “impure” as soon as LAH is added and its heated in air to 1000°C. All sorts of elements mix with it.
              So I guess it doesn’t matter if its 100% pure. The reaction takes place at nuclear level not molecular or even atomic levels, can you make a nucleus impure ? A nucleus is surrounded by nothing but space for miles and miles (if it were the size of a man).

    • Sanjeev

      Excellent report. I especially liked your DIY glove box. An inventor finds a way, lack of money and equipment will not stop him.

      The pressure behavior is more or less like Parkhomov’s, have you plotted it ? If the pressure reduced to 1 bar in first run, did it come back up in next runs ? (Just to confirm if it was a leak).

      • Wishful Thinking Energy

        I didn’t plot the pressure because my hand recordings were too granular (I had an Easter Egg hunt to go to). I can add the recorded values to my blog tonight. Once the value hit zero it stayed on zero. I’m assuming there was a slight leak.

        • Sanjeev

          Sounds like a leak. Anyway here is a suggestion:
          From the pictures, it looks like the reactor is still intact, so it can be powered on again after replacing the TC (with a higher rating). Once you reach the interesting range, hold it and after few hours, look for HAD.
          You will then need to remove the powder and run it for calibration. (including HAD calibration).
          In case you have a better plan, let us know. All the best !

  • Sanjeev

    Good results. I thought you were using a microwave oven 😉
    The trend after 1200°C is clearly away from the calibration (if you extrapolate). The 100°C rise is very steep just before failure. I think its worth experimenting further.
    If the reactor is intact, it will be good to recalibrate in the missing range first. Waiting for the report !

  • Bob Greenyer
    • ecatworld

      Thanks very much, Bob — nice offer. Would you have any glowsticks available too, if people wanted to try experimenting with them?

      • Josh G

        Frank, is Brian Albiston the ‘replicator’ you referred to in the replications thread when you wrote” “I have spoken with a replicator this week (previously unknown to me) who reports getting results similar to Parkhomov in his testing, and who told me he plans to share his experimental findings openly in a report which he hopes will put a spotlight on LENR and encourage others to replicate. From what I am told, it won’t be too long before we can see it, within the month, I hope.”

        • ecatworld

          No, a different person.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Hi Frank,

        I will discuss with Alan about that next week, but likely, we would have a kit to go with the heaters with main components and a few spares.

        I think in the next few weeks, we will know with reasonable confidence that people will not have to measure pressure if they follow a certain charge level, dead volume and heating profile.

        Dr. Parkhomov is arranging to get more of his Nickel to us, so we may be able to see that some kits get that component also – this may be prioritised to go to those that demonstrate open access to their work, ideally live data so that everything moves faster and less redundant effort is undertaken.

  • Andrew

    I personally need more then lines on a graph as (no offence) anyone can plot something real and fake.

    • pelgrim108

      Everybody on this site needs more then graphs. Thats why we are so interested in replications.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ian.walker.7140 Ian Walker

    Hi all

    A word of caution to Wishful Thinking, Geiger counter, and a method of spotting Neutrons.

    Keep it small keep it safe. 😉

    Kind Regards walker

  • Hank Mills

    Wishful Thinking,

    Thank you for sharing your test results. The data looks like you hit lithiums “ignition temperature” as Cures would say. I have a few questions.

    1 – Where are the thermocouples positioned? Inside or outside of the reactor?

    2 – What is the wall thickness of your reactor and is it alumina? From this we can get a rough idea of what the temp differential might be between the inside and outside.

    3 – Once the thermocouples failed, how long did you continue applying power?

    4 – When you turned off power, what was the cool down curve like compared to calibration?

    5 – What fuel mix were you using?

    I’ll be looking forward to a full report.

  • Wishful Thinking Fusion

    More details about my setup will follow. Unfortunately, I have a day job and won’t be able to get to it until tonight or later in the week.

    Disclaimer: My setup isn’t to MFMP levels….yet. Those of us paying for this out of our own pockets and working on it nights and weekends sometimes don’t have the resources to make a perfect experiment. There is room for significant error in my results.

    • SG

      Thank you for your efforts and for being so open about your results. If more were like you, we might not have wondered for 25 years in the wilderness.

  • Nicholas Cafarelli

    @ Wishful

    Do you plan to share details of your reactor? Volume, weight of contents, other dimensions? Pictures, or video? Procedures of assembly, testing, and operation?

    http://ni.comli.com

  • Mats002

    Hi WTF (positively!),
    What kind of power do you have? 115 or 240, variac or…? How many W is it capable of?

    • Wishful Thinking Fusion

      120V, triac at time of melting. I don’t think it matters much because I saw hints of the effect (that I dismissed for reasons I’ll explain later) while I was using a variac at ~60V.

      • Mats002

        hope you will share your setup and procedures, I also would have given attention to my wife in a similar situation 😉

      • Axil Axil

        Remember that the triac showed some meaningful results and the variac did not. Remember that Rossi uses a pulsed square wave form out of his control box and Parksomoff used a triac in the experiments that worked. Don’t discount the advantage of a pulsed waveform.

  • Obvious

    May I ask where your thermocouples were located? I see that your fuelled run and control have almost exactly the same temperatures at the same power level.
    I am guessing that you are recording the temperature value manually (this is fine). If the two thermocouples are attached at nearly the same point, then you can test for the effect of electrical noise by connecting alternately both positive leads, then both negative leads to the meter. Ideally you will get a reading of 0. This may be a nuisance if you have the flat prong TC plug, but is easy if you have the round banana leads. If you do read a temperature this way, then this is the electrical noise uncertainty in temperature. This should be done at regular temperature intervals. Twisting the wire, especially near the reactor body will help cancel this, but if you don’t have special high temperature TC insulation wire, it might cause the leads to short out to each other if the insulation melts, possibly resulting in lowering the temperature reading, or an irregular temperature erratic reading, depending on where the wires touch.
    Best of luck to you with your experiment.

  • Wishful Thinking Fusion

    Yes, two innocent thermocouples.

    • Mr. Moho

      What happened after the thermocouples failed? At that rate of temperature increase, I would get worried for my safety.

      • Wishful Thinking Fusion

        Fortunately nothing but two destroyed thermocouples. I have no idea what the reactor finally topped out at. My guess is around 1450C (assuming the thermocouple was reading accurately before it melted). I turned up the power and left the room like I always do. It’s normally a pretty boring process. You turn up the power and then come back in an hour or two to see where the temperature has settled at. It was only when I came back and saw my thermocouples were all reading odd values that I realized something interesting had happened.

        • farhad66

          Could you provide a full report from your experiment including picture or video from setup ?

        • Mr. Moho

          According to the data you provided, temperature increased by about 100°C when you raised power from 300W to 325W. Since it increased by only ~55°C when you increased it from 275W to 300W, that alone would have been quite exciting for me. Didn’t that catch your attention when you further increased input power to 345W? The thermocouples failed 5 minutes and another ~100 °C later.

          • Wishful Thinking Fusion

            I was getting excited and that is why I only increased the power 10W instead of my normal 25W (it drifted up another ~10W which is why I said 345W). The truth is my wife called me upstairs. What would you put first, a reactor about to go nuclear or a wife about to go nuclear? I chose the latter.

            • Mr. Moho

              Not sure if serious.
              Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing your full report, photos, etc.

            • Alberonn

              wise choice :>))

  • Christian

    Good god. Anybody got hurt?