Rossi on High Anxiety Regarding E-Cat Plant [Updated]

Andrea Rossi has commented recently about feeling a sense of high anxiety regarding the 1 MW plant he and his team is working on.

When a reader on the Journal of Nuclear physics asked him about future commercial plans for the E-Cat, he responded:

About the future: the commercial strategic decisions are totally premature, because all will depend on the results and we need to wait the end of this test period. Every moment here we do not know what will happen the next moment. I am in the plant ( inside the 2 containers wherein is everything) from 5.30 a.m. through midnight and there is no moment without anxiety. I understand it is difficult to imagine how difficult this is.
For now my future is in the next 10 minutes.

I followed up with a question about whether his anxiety is caused by the unpredictability of the E-Cat, or worries about equipment failure, and mentioned that I hope he was able to sleep well and not suffer too much mentally or physically under the pressure he is feeling.

He replied:

To obtain statistics about predictability you need experience. We cannot have experience, since this plant is the first of industrial size ( 1 MW) to be observed in operation 24/7/350. This is also why we prefer not to publish data before at least one year of operation. I sleep 4 hours per day, but very well. This life will go on for all this year and possibly a slice of the next. But it is worth. During the long nights I can hear the voice of the plant ( just speaking of mental health….-he,he,he): the voice of the plant is a blend of huge bubbling of water, pumps tictocs, bips of computers and blinking leds, bzzzzs of electric stuff…all this is not constant, but is dynamic, it’s an integral. I get data also from it. Obviously the gauges of the control system make the job, but the voice raises my instinct. I invented him, not the gauges. ( Whattaya think about my mental health, after this? He,he,he,he…)
Warm Regards,
A.R.

He seems to be able to maintain a sense of humor, which is good! I expect he may actually be thriving on this experience, since it’s what he has lived for in recent years. Anxious, I am sure, but probably a great sense of adventure and challenge. It’s probably too early for him to feel pride in achievement, since there’s a long way to go before they know that the plant can operate as it is intended.

UPDATE: This is a follow up comment from Rossi in response to a question I put to him regarding his mentioning that there were two containers at his place of work:

Frank Acland:
One container contains the E-Cats, pumps heat exchangers and the satellitar informatic system of every E-Cat. The second container contains the central control system, the general electric panels, general switches etc, plus the computers to read all the data and, obviously, the chairs and the desks. One of the desks is mine, from it I am writing this comment to answer to you, as well as all the comments I sent and will send in 2015. I make the trip from one container to the other not less than 100 times every day, but for the 60% of time I am in the container where are the computers. Together with me are several components of the Team. Both containers are installed inside the factory of the Customer.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • georgehants
  • clovis ray

    On money or investors needed, no tax payers money involved.

  • Bernie777

    Rossi just gave us another “hint”. When talking about Parkhomov’s highly professional work, he stated, “a real Master in …… trumpet technique”.

  • georgehants

    Just for conversation, some months ago Mr. Rossi put up a reply saying expect an announcement from NASA shortly, that of course seems to have come to nothing, so why did he have reason to believe that they from their ivory tower, would say anything about something important and useful like Cold Fusion.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      well Denis Bushnell is an avid LENR supporter, and chief scientist at NASA Langley research centre, so i dunno what you mean by ivory tower.

      • georgehants

        I scan about 100/120 scientific reports daily, of those 20% are pure brainwashing propaganda coming from NASA, just to convince the population they are spending their billions on something worthwhile to keep the money rolling in, to waste on crazy schemes, while not one single report on anything of value such as Cold Fusion.
        When an establishment does not officially answer questions about a subject such as Cold Fusion, it is known as an Ivory tower.

        • Nigel Appleton

          What’s your problem here?

          Cancer sometimes (rarely) do disappear spontaneously. Such cases are investigated in as much as one can investigate something that is no longer there. We don’t even know how many people develop cancers that disappear again before symptoms are evident. But to intimate that science corruptly ignores such things is dead wrong.

          How would YOU investigate a tumour that had gone away?

          • georgehants

            Nigel, I take it you can only be a “scientist” of some kind, or a comedian.

        • Bernie777

          Good link, thanks.

  • LuFong

    Exactly. There is no mystery to modern engineering practices. In addition to everything you have just said, there should also be an ongoing primary effort by IH/Rossi in constructing and testing systems in their own test and development labs. This is where I expect Rossi and IH to be spending most of their time and effort–in IH’s own R&D facilities developiong and testing E-Cats. Sure the 1MW prototype is important but Rossi does not have to be there 18 hours a day.

    Perhaps Rossi has a lot of warrants/options on the line with this contract? Perhaps they’ve burned up most of their down time by now? Perhaps there is such an effort by others now that Rossi has transferred his technology? What’s being described by Rossi makes little sense to me which is why I suspect his statements are a bit of a ruse.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I agree with both here – that such designs would under go testing. However I MUCH suspect that this did occur!

      I think “little” question exists that a single module was created and tested. Once they had it working then they produced many. It is much speculation that such modules and designs were not prototyped – I’m willing to bet they most certainly were.

      So I don’t think or suspect that they just “rolled” the dice here – that just not bright and to assume that we are all so smart and “knowing” and everyone else including Rossi is so dumb is rather silly on our part. So Rossi is so smart, and yet so stupid? – that don’t fly with me at all.

      We “really” don’t know if COP’s are lower then expected, and we really don’t know what kind of outputs they are achieving right now. However Rossi words have “hinted” that results could be less then expected, or less then ideal (we don’t know what Rossi means here, but to me it seems “less” then ideal).

      It is possible that several compromises were made in the rush to market (we all remember the Apple III), but again even that is speculation by me.

      It is rather hard to rag on Rossi if this technology is so easy, then let the market and chips and OTHER players show us what they have. The other players in this marketplace have nothing in the way of attempting a commercial installation as Rossi is doing.

      Rossi is blazing a trail here, and time and history will show if Rossi put the cart before the horse so to speak.

      The competition that we know about is not even CLOSE to such commercial types of installations, and until such time others are attempting and achieving commercial installations, then Rossi remains the leader in this field. I have great difficulty in pointing out that Rossi gone down the road anymore so then pointing out that the Wright brothers went down the road.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • LuFong

        I actually think the 1MW plant is probably working better than we might think but at the same time there is much room for improvement. Rossi has spoken of exponential progress and that might apply to the COP as well (although he may have been referring to the hot-cats and not the low temperature E-Cats in the power plant).

        I also always admit I don’t know what Rossi is doing, dealing with, etc. All we can do is look at the facts as we find them and what Rossi says and try to reconcile them. The story will eventually come out but in the mean time we can all conjecture on what might be happening.

    • clovis ray

      bullocks, lufung, you could not be more wrong, if you read what he said, the plant is running fine, with the few mechanical failure of plumbing and electronic bugs, you guys know if it were your discovery, you would be doing as Dr. Rossi is now, baby sitting.

  • LCD

    Well if it stops for certain reasons the one year trial restarts. Anyway that’s what I’m getting or else I’d be super happy and have no idea what he’s talking about.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    If one knows how something works, one may get anxious when using it, “knowledge increases pain”. For example, I know programming. Consequently, if I have to use software which has bugs, I instinctively start to guess what kind of bugs the programmer has more likely made and then change my usage pattern so that probable bugs are not triggered. Of course, trying to reverse-engineer a software from its user interface is doomed to fail, but nevertheless I can’t stop my subconscious from attempting it. Only if the software is almost bug-free, that doesn’t happen.

  • Andy Kumar

    How long can you continue to look at it through rose tinted glasses? 3 years, 30years?

    • bachcole

      My glasses are tinted with the evidence that the professors have told us about, and the prescription for the glasses are the philosophical insights that so many scientists seem to be oblivious to; ya’ can’t prove a negative; scientists don’t have a monopoly on all knowing; our numbers describing the Coulomb Barrier are derived from extremely fast neutrons and protons, etc., etc, etc. And perhaps the frames of my glasses are that I don’t throw myself at the feet of anyone unless they are God, although sometimes I am tempted when my children and dogs walk by because they are so freaking sweet, cute, and adorable. (:->)

    • GreenWin

      Andy, while it may threaten your Caltech education, you should read some of the peer-reviewed papers in the Special Section on LENR, published by the Indian Academy of Science in journal Current Science. Start here: http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0624.pdf

      It’s never too late to learn Andy. 🙂

    • Omega Z

      Andy
      I’m confident the E-cat works & produces COP much greater then 1. Whether it is of cost/benefit is a different issue.

      Considering it uses a high value energy(Electricity), It needs a COP>3 just to breakeven when considering conversion efficiency. For home heating, That number increases to COP>5 given the alternatives available. And higher COP for both when considering the hardware investment.

      The purpose of the 1Mw Pilot plant is to determine if it can maintain a high enough COP in a dependable & controlled manor with a positive cost/benefit. The alternative would be Rossi talking to Industrial Heat(Tom Darden & 13 other investors going something like this.

      I want to build a Million$ 1Mw pilot plant that has a negative cost/benefit. It will be powered by high value electricity produced by pollution spewing CO2 plagued fossil fuel power plants. A customer after more then a year of inconvenience to their business would need to make a major hardware investment with higher energy costs then they presently employ. Thus no business would ever purchase such product.

      Can you really say with a straight face that you believe any Venture Capital Group would invest huge sums of man hours, materials & money into a 1Mw pilot plant if the individual 10Kw reactors didn’t have an acceptable COP to begin with.

      There would need to be a reasonable high confidence among the decision makers in the basic technology before they would take such a step as a 1Mw pilot plant & all it entails. The outcome of which has serious consequences This would require much input from Rossi, Rossi’s team & ALL that are involved including the Investor…

  • ecatworld

    It’s a new setting in Disqus. To vote up or down you have to be logged in to Disqus, so you’ll have to create an account using one of the buttons below the comment box.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    +1

  • EEStorFanFibb

    Strangely, it doesn’t seem that Rossi has any time left in the day for R&D on hot cats. I guess IH has a team of engineers and scientists working on that at a separate location.

    • Agaricus

      I hope so. If they don’t have the resources (human and/or financial) to develop ‘hot cat’ as quickly as possible then they are doing the world a great disservice by leaving the technology on a ‘back burner’.

      • Omega Z

        Relax Agaricus
        I’m sure there are people still doing R&D on the Hot Cat.
        Given that, I doubt we’ll see anything like a 1Mw Hot cat for sometime. You need to learn how to crawl before you walk.

        The 1Mw Lt E-cat is the crawl. They will learn much from it for control purposes that will be applied to the Hot cat when the time comes.

      • ecatworld

        Andrea Rossi
        March 6th, 2015 at 6:33 PM
        Yes, we are continuing the R&D of the Hot Cat. And we are working also on the safety certification of it. Very important evolution has been made after the Lugano test results.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • EEStorFanFibb

          “We” meaning… not so much him.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        To enable production of electric power, one needs high COP or high temperature. If both are possible, the high COP approach might be preferable because high temperature turbines tend to be expensive. If their interest towards the HotCat has diminished, perhaps the reason is that they have made progress in lower temperature COP.

        The Lugano reactor would already enable self-sufficient production of electric power even without using the self-sustain mode. The catch is that the necessary heat engine would be complicated and expensive.

        Of course there are applications in industry which need exactly high temperature heat. But compared to primary electric power production, those are commercial niches, worth only some bare billions.

        • Nigel Appleton

          I’m wondering what the economics of LENR will work out like, now that a) installation costs of PV solar are trending below $1 per watt (for very large arrays) and b) progress is being made with storage of both electrical and thermal energy aimed at smoothing the necessarily intermittent nature of both solar and wind power

          • Omega Z

            Without a Major scientific breakthrough, Storage will always be costly. These costs need to be included with PV.

            We’ll have to wait to see the final cost of E-cats. Rossi once mentioned $500 for a 10Kw L-temp E-cat(5 cents per watt). Even at $1K installed would be 10 cents per watt.

            Industrial products will cost more because of work load etc, But when all is figured from cradle to customer, E-cat technology will be much cheaper & environmentally friendlier. It’s been calculated that PV solar CO2 footprint isn’t much better then Natural gas.Also, The E-cats will have double the life cycle. That in effect cuts it’s installed cost in half compared to PV life cycle.

            • Nigel Appleton

              What would be the result of a like-for-like CO2 footprint calculation for a comparable ecat installation, I wonder.

            • EEStorFanFibb

              “Without a Major scientific breakthrough, Storage will always be costly. These costs need to be included with PV.”

              Nope

              http://seekingalpha.com/article/2966026-tesla-gigafactory-tipping-point?auth_param=4c71l:1afcet5:fd01e06e812efa2f83594ac648c7192b&uprof=46

            • EEStorFanFibb

              “Without a Major scientific breakthrough, Storage will always be costly.”

              I just stumbled across this article about present and future solar PV costs:

              “The basis for my predictions is, however, quite simple: we have
              reached the point where low costs are driving installations higher,
              which in turn drives costs lower, which in turn drives installations
              higher. The virtuous circle seems to be locked in and based on history,
              we can expect further 20 percent cost reductions with each doubling of
              capacity, with no inherent limit to cost reductions over time.

              Under this trend, we can expect by 2020, under a 30 percent global rate of
              growth, to see total solar costs for utility-scale systems at around
              $0.84 per watt, based on GTM Research’s projected $1.10 per watt for
              2017. By 2025, the cost drops to about $0.54 per watt, and by 2030 it
              will be a practically free cost of $0.34 per watt. By 2040, we can
              expect under these trends to see costs at about 14 cents per watt. A
              5-kilowatt home-size system would cost only $700.

              That counts as free in my book, because that system will provide power
              for about 25 years at almost no cost above the initial installation
              cost. Twenty-five years of production for $700 equates to about 2.8
              cents per kilowatt-hour. For comparison, the average retail cost of
              power in California today is about 15 cents per kilowatt-hour, so this
              future cost of solar power will be less than one-fifth the cost of
              today’s power. And this analysis leaves out inflation. If we include
              inflation, the comparison is even more favorable.”

              http://ca.equities.com/2015/03/the-solar-singularity-is-nigh/

              http://dqbasmyouzti2.cloudfront.net/content/images/articles/Tam-singularity-2.jpg

          • EEStorFanFibb

            Solar will provide several terawatts of power before LENR provides even a single gigawatt.

            • Nigel Appleton

              That’s uncontroversial. Solar power has been around for decades, so has a bit of a head start, wouldn’t you say?

              • EEStorFanFibb

                yes totally uncontroversial to those paying attention to what’s really happening in the energy markets. many here don’t have a clue and think renewables are expensive and/or unreliable.

                • Pekka Janhunen

                  Renewables are unreliable because weather and climate are unreliable. The unreliability cannot be removed by technical development. For example, a large volcanic eruption can dim out the sun for a couple of years (or more if the eruption lasts longer). It has happened during history and will happen again. If the world would rely more on ground-based solar power, it would increase our vulnerability to such events.
                  It is an often-used argument that even if the summer is cloudy in some state, the sun shines somewhere else in the continent so one only needs an efficient grid to transfer the energy. The argument is valid under normal climatic conditions. But the argument fails during volcanic and other similar events.

                • EEStorFanFibb

                  Good thing geothermal and wind would remain unaffected by large volcanic events. BTW did the recent Icelandic eruptions affect Germany’s solar harvest?

                • Pekka Janhunen

                  I haven’t heard, I guess the event was too small for that. The last bigger events were in 1816 and 1883.
                  About 1816, wikipedia says In the spring and summer of 1816, a persistent “dry fog” was observed in
                  parts of the eastern U.S. The fog reddened and dimmed the sunlight,
                  such that sunspots were visible to the naked eye.

                  Solar panels would continue to work to some extent under such conditions, but concentrating solar power would be in deep trouble.
                  Of course, one could burn fossil fuels as a replacement during such years, but it requires that the fuels and the infrastructure are maintained in readiness.

                • Nigel Appleton

                  Of course one advantage of LENR over solar (apart from constancy over intermttency) is the fact that it will take up far less space. Solar pv takes up about 8 acres MWac, or about 4 acres/GWhr/yr

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Nigel: at least we know that Rossi is struggling with cost of electricity storage (because he was interested in supercapacitors), although in his case it is only short-term buffering, so judging from that it might be that E-cat beats costwise any PV which needs much longer term storage.

          To continue my original theme, a fission reactor can be made very hot, 3000 K, as exemplified by the Nerva nuclear thermal rocket in the 1960’s. Likewise a flame (e.g. a gas flame) can be quite hot. Theoretically, these facts would enable one to produce electricity from fission and gas flame heat with very high efficiency. Yet it is not done, but instead nuclear and gas turbine plants run relatively cool and produce a modest 30-40% efficiency in conversion to electricity. Jet engines are a bit of an exception, since their turbine temperatures can be over 1000 C nowadays.

          I think one can judge from this that handling temperatures higher than ~400 C is not economical in large-scale power plant environment. It’s a tradeoff between fuel cost and plant cost. Jet engines are hotter because in them, fuel economy is relatively speaking more important than in ground-based installations, because the plane needs fuel not only to carry itself, but also to carry its fuel. In other words, if one improves fuel economy of the jet engine, the plane’s fuel consumption goes down faster than linearly.

          The E-cat has almost zero fuel cost. Therefore the economically optimal temperature should not be higher than in fission plants and gas turbine plants if the E-cat’s COP is high.

          Of course, one also has to factor in other advances in technology that have meanwhile occurred. Most fission and gas turbine plants are old, and if they would be built today, maybe(?) the designs would be hotter. E-cat plants, since they are new, would of course not use obsolete technical solutions.

          • Nigel Appleton

            The figure I have for steam temperature in a modern steam turbine generator is 900 deg C

            The adiabatic flame temperature of burning methane is >1900 deg C

            Seems to me that high operating temperatures in electricity generation are being addressed right now

    • Paul

      Mmmmh, I doubt

  • oceans

    Andy is now your an expert on LENR and your going to tell Rossi what he needs to know ))

  • Omega Z

    “and the very real possibility that the competition has much better theoretical understanding of the task at hand.”

    Really?
    Then why is the competition trying so hard to replicate his work.
    I think if they had a better understanding, they’d be moving along building their very own reactor.

  • Allan Shura

    With an instrument panel a small plug and play unit for the consumer could be encapsulated.

  • Gerard McEk

    Just consider the contract Rossi has with IH: He is probably obliged to prove his technology in practice. If he cannot prove that in say 2 years than eg.:
    1. IH will seize the contract with Rossi or
    2. IH will stop all further development or
    3. Rossi has to pay-back (a part of) the money he received for disclosing his E-cat technology to IH or
    4. Rossi may lose all IP on the E-cat or
    5. Whatever

    That plus the possibility to lose his baby and his pride are indeed many reasons for anxiety. I hope he survives this adventure with pride. When LENR breaks through Rossi’s struggle for his invention will be remembered in history!

  • http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/ Mats Lewan

    This is a wonderful piece Frank. Independently of whether you think that the E-Cat is a valid technology or not, I think Rossi manages to describe his huge intuitive sense for technology development — a strange mix of intense studies and home brewed theory, with this particular attention to the behavior of the system and the ability to listen to it and build ideas on where to go next. Few people have this ability, and I’m confident that if we will really see these products on the market one day, Rossi’s contribution, not only as an inventor but as an Edisonian developer, will be clear. It’s not obvious that a team of scientists and engineers could perform much better in this phase. But you’re right georgehants — this will be discussed.

  • georgehants

    History will debate and analyse how much faster the production of Cold Fusion would be, if Mr. Rossi passed all his knowledge to the scientific World for thousands to work on the technology.
    It of course has to excepted that after the total corruption, incompetence and censoring shown by Western science, they would probably take no notice and carry on by consensus of holy expert opinion, to forbid any of the cowering establishment scientists to even then work on Cold Fusion.
    Just like the patenting of drugs etc. the cost in lives can be very easily calculated from the numbers of unfortunates that cannot afford the cost of treatment.
    Each death directly attributed to profit and capitalism.

  • jousterusa

    After initially praising the work of Parhmonov, Ithink ios feeling uneasy because a second replication aparently failed. That sort of left him “twisting slowly, slowly in the wind.” He can do very little to resolve it sincethat experiment was not under his control, and while the catalyst (or “secret ingredient”) seemed to pass musrer with him, he cannot now go and dsay “Try this – the real Rossi catalyst.” Only time – and success with the customer’s 1mW E-Cat, can really bring some relief.

  • theBuckWheat

    Rossi in a box? Not scalable. E-cat in a box? May the day come when he can make them by the millions.

  • LuFong

    I really don’t understand this anxiety and why Rossi has to be inside the plant at all times. He’s the CTO and not the chief technician after all. After a year everything will suddenly be better and he can go out and manufacture millions of these things? I can tell you that if Rossi has to babysit this thing 18 hours a day and respond to problems on a ten minute time frame something is very wrong. I’m sure there are problems but in a distributed system of 100 E-cats any single point of failure probably is not a disaster.

    Personally I just don’t believe Rossi. I think they know now whether this thing will work or not and is just an excuse to hide the situation and gain privacy not unlike what happened during the 6 month test.

    Nice poetic description by Rossi though.

    • bachcole

      In this case, since his entrepreneurial enthusiasm is unhinging his pronouncements, I believe every word that he is saying.

    • Heath

      When you spend a year or more refining the design with a team, worked to fine tune it as well, and now are running it at a customer in production, I bet you would be anxious too. This is the design that IH wants to market and now it is live at a customer’s site in a true performancereliability run. This part is key to commercialization and they know it. If there is a major flaw that has been overlooked and cannot be fixed in 35 days, it’s back to the drawing board and then everything starts again and equals further delays.

      • jousterusa

        There may also be a concern at IH that future sales may require the same 24/7 intense micromanagement.

        • bachcole

          I had the same thought and concern. But he is probably learning lots of stuff that can only and best be learned this way.

    • bachcole

      When I was young I was like the top swimmer in my area. No one could touch me. As a freshman I won the ‘A’ Division 400 yard freestyle at the Sectionals, which covered a large area of central California. I was king. But before every race, I would pace up and down, anxious, doing nervous habits like slapping my lats against my upper arm, talking up and down, focusing, being very, very anxious. Think how anxious a father would be who is trying to give birth to the most important technological discovery in the history of the world.

    • Steve H

      If you have never commissioned a new processing plant – then you have no real concept of the anxiety which must be endured. Eventually the wrinkles are smoothed out and it then becomes quite boring.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I actually agree “somewhat” with this view. Being in the plant for additional time likely will not make the plant “run” any different then how the control systems and software is setup. And because the system is automated, then spending time with the machine will not really make it much better.

      To be fair, certainly tweaking the “ramp up” curves as to when energy is to be applied, and tweaking “flow” rates and “rate” changes to remove heat DOES merit MANY “hours” on site. So in this light, this would be a fair statement by Rossi to spend so much time on side. And this is his “passion” of MANY years of his life – so I can MUCH understand that you get up in the morning, and go see + work on your creation.

      However having to spend so much time on site does suggest that their performance (COP) is less then expected. In other words, if you have a COP of 8 or 9, then tweaking the system to get 10 might be fun, but would not merit one having to spend HUGE time on site. In other words, with a sufficient output, you have a sufficient output.

      However, with a COP of 2 – 3, then a jump to 4 or 6 is DOUBLE and VERY significant. The issues of 10 modules, or 100 is really moot here or even 1000 (I am lost as to why people even bother to focues on that issue). The only real important number is the COP you get from each module.

      With a COP of say 2-3, then the plant has little commercial value and would be competing with heat pump technology – they easy achieve COP’s of 3+ with temps above 0C.

      Reading between the lines, and being cautious to speculate on things in public we really don’t know about?

      This does suggest that the 1MW plant is not achieving desired COP’s. The only real question is then “what range” is the COP at right now?

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Omega Z

        Just to point out-
        As this is a 1st in productive long-term use, Rossi is still working on control parameters. They have a lot to learn & program modifications ahead.

        As to number of reactors not being that significant an issue, with a 1Mw plant, consider a 1% performance improvement is a 10,000 watt gain per hour. Over a years time 24/7, that is a lot of cash difference in costs. There’s multiple ways to calculate improvements in watts or COP, but either way, small improvements can equal big financial benefits for the customer.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          You know, I much agree with your point. ANY increase in COP and output is worth DIRECT dollars. So even going from say 9 to 10 COP is only 11%, that is 11% “energy savings”.

          Thus such increases would be worth a lot to the customer. They can get 10% more power, or use 10% less power to run the system. That translates in to 10% DOLLAR cost savings to run.

          So this could “much” explain the reason for spending time. In other words, even with a good COP, small additional increases ARE much worth the efforts.

          And such efforts don’t cost “hardware” changes to the plant. We talking about tweaking existing parameters. Do you turn on additional heat to the coils (using energy), or do you perhaps reduce water flow to a module first? So “many” parameters exist here, and what works best is VERY much a “open” question.

          I can thus accept that such efforts on Rossi’s part can and will increase plant output results.

          However, I still maintain that the “caution” we sense from Rossi suggests that COP’s are not as high as expected.

          Rossi tends to “slip” out things when he is VERY impressed and happy. For example, looking at and seeing the new pictures of the 1MW plant? It looks REALLY cool, is an amazing piece of engineering, and as Rossi stated “magnificent”. I 100% agree with him! (you can see + tell his excitement).

          However in terms of outcome, production of energy, Rossi has been very “subdued” and his commitments tend to suggest that more work is required to reach commercial outputs. If outputs of COP were 10+ then Rossi’s tone would be MUCH more positive and comments about we “don’t know” the kinds of outputs until we have more data suggests that more work is “desired” for better outputs.

          I think someone should just flat outright ask Rossi if the current COP is > 6, and we are all well aware that such numbers could drastic change over time.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Omega Z

            One more note.
            It may work great in the lab, but have issues under a load in a manufacturing process. Kind of like a car that runs great until you try to take it up a steep grade & you find it doesn’t do so well. Then it’s time to go back to the shop & beef up the engine. I think Rossi is just being cautious because of to many unknowns. No matter how well things should be going, He wont draw or give any conclusions until the time frame is met.

    • Obvious

      The 1MW reactor is contractually obligated to work for x days (I forget) out of a year. If something stops working, and no one responds until the next day, a half day or more could be lost. These can add up over a year, and then his contractual obligation could fail. Worse, a major leak or something could destroy the computers if not caught quickly, and result in a fatal blow to the reactor, making fulfilling the contract impossible. Rossi is determined that the reactor will succeed in fulfilling the contract, making not only history, but making the technology recognised as a reality. No excuses for failure will allowed by him, if there is any way to prevent a problem. Rossi is entirely focussed on the success of this plant. In his mind, a weakness on his part is not an acceptable excuse. So he practically lives in the the boxes. Also, if he is not irradiated by the end of the year, another proof of radiation safety will be obvious for so many reactors clustered together.

  • bachcole

    Matt, I don’t recall him saying that he had his residence in Raleigh, NC. But I am an old man and I don’t read everything, even here. With his resources he could live anywhere he wanted to. He could be sleeping in the factory even.

    • ecatworld

      Recently he has also posted, “in this period I work in the plant from 5.30 a.m. through midnight, but when I return in the motel to sleep I feel guilty to leave the plant. ”

      I don’t think the plant is necessarily in Raleigh.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        NASA Langley is a two hour drive from IH… Just saying..

        • Omega Z

          It’s deployed in a production operation. That doesn’t fit the NASA format.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            As a Canadian I envision NC as a state much warmer with temperatures hardly ever reaching the freezing point except possibly in Mid Winter for several months.

            This is what makes me wonder why any business in that climate would expend millions for a 24/7 X 365 heating system. If the ecats could air condition also perhaps I could envision this better.

            It was this logic that made me think perhaps if he is still in the local of IH then research must also be a purpose of the customer.

            If not NASA directly… NASA is known to be working on a LENR aircraft in cooperation with Boeing. Boeing has large hangars that would require a lot of heat, and would satisfy my rationales.

            NASA and BOEING are both located in Virgina close to IH location in NC.

            Boeing makes some sense. NASA makes sense. Any other business in that climate does not make as much sense to me.

            Anyways.. That is how I am guessing NASA is still involved.

            • bachcole

              Seems like you are trying way too hard to connect data points to me (no criticism intended). With that much effort I usually just say that I don’t know.

              • friendlyprogrammer

                Yes. But all of our opinions are based on a lifetime of input and I was just pointing at some additional rational.

                Another is that it would seem logical that the customer is in the LENR research loop enough to trust Rossi/IH.

                The logic of running a multi million dollar heating unit 24/7/365 in North Carolina just does not make sense.

                I agree it is a leap, but I like things to make some sense. I have other reasons for thinking this.

                I’ll add to it another data point… We know Boeing and NASA are in cooperation to develop a LENR airplane. We also know NASA has a limited LENR budget from FoIA. We also know NASA has previously knocked on Rossi’s door in regards to the ecat. It could be part of their “payment” that they use their R&D/heating expenses to gamble on the ecat.

                It could be anybody, anywhere in the world.

                I’d limit that to the USA because we know the shipping containers entered the USA, likely with a customer in mind.

                It is a puzzle we are all working on. Sharing my thought processes might trigger a good guess from the next guy down the line.

                I’m just trying to have some fun with it.

                There are a lot of clues if we could sort them out it might be worthy of a thread of its own, and create some fun.

                • Omega Z

                  In case you missed it, This 1Mw pilot plant is the Low temp E-cat so that tends against Boeing and NASA connection. That leaves low temp processes. Cherokee/IH have many business connections that use of a pilot plant test could be arranged & I find it very probable that this is the case. Maybe even 1 of the 14 IH investors.

                • friendlyprogrammer

                  Good guesses with investors or contacts. My mind just keeps thinking NASA is in the door somehow because I know Dennis Bushnell was very keen about the ECAT to the point where they contacted Rossi but Rossi wanted them to pay to learn his research which they could not afford. I was imagining the containers heating large airplane hangars.

                  But I wonder what all the pieces are to this puzzle. Rossi has spoken about his customer on numerous occasions but so much is guessed at. Like we all assumed Siemens was involved at one point and now we are not so sure,etc.

                  Your guess that it is just a random contact buyer is much more logical and a high probability, but as long as I’m trying to be hopeful I’d rather imagine NASA did have their hands on it because they definitely had some convincing enthusiasm from the start. The fact NASA went so nuts for LENR is one of the early reasons I fully accepted the ECAT.

            • Omega Z

              It could be as simple as food processing. A 100’C to 120’C temp range would be idle for that among many other possible processes.

              Rossi has also said he’s staying in a hotel, But that doesn’t tell us anything. He could be just 30 miles from Raleigh, but if putting in 18 hours a day at the plant, Staying in a hotel makes sense. Also, should something serious come about, he would be close by.

              • friendlyprogrammer

                I had only envisioned it as a building heater, so that’s an interesting viewpoint. Rossi staying in a Hotel must almost be assumed, as we know he retired to Florida. So the Hotel clues are not the best unless he says the name of it.

  • Matt Sevrens

    I think he just inadvertently revealed the customer is in Raleigh, NC. If the plant is currently in operation as he has said, and he is in the plant daily, and Rossi has not moved, therefore it can be assumed the customer is close to the manufacturing location.

    • theBuckWheat

      So, then, of all industrial operations in Raleigh, the list of those using process heat in that quantity 24×7 is fairly short.

    • Matt

      I spent 3 months last winter installing custom industrial equipment in a hospital in Texas. I was at the hospital 12 hours a day seven days a week. You get very anxious about how things are going to go the next day and if you did everything you could today. I also don’t live in Texas, but I have lots of hotel reward points to show for it.