Proposal to Help Widespread LENR Replication Effort (Svein Utne)

The following comment was made by Svein Utne on this thread. (edited lightly for English language)

What is holding me back from testing a Hot-cat replica is the dangerous powder needed. To order many different components and finding a glove box and fine scale for measuring the different ingredients makes it difficult to get started testing the different combinations needed. If it were possible to order the tube mixed with the combination I was interested in testing, it would make the hurdle for starting LENR research much lower.

I think a person with access to a lab with a fine scale and glove box could make good money in providing the tubes files with 3-5 different metal powders and sealed. The cost of this could be less than $10 and he could sell it for $100.

I have worked in a lab with scales with accuracy down to 1/100 mg and it takes some time to get the last 1/10 of the mg right, but if he could do it the other way, just follow the request down to the nearest mg and just right down what the actual amount is, then it will only take 1 minute per ingredients or 5 minute in total to fill the tube.

If he also could put on the resistor and thermocouple and put cement on it all, it would be nice, but that could be and option that cost extra. If he then makes 6 till 10 tubes in one hour, he could make $500 per hour.

If we work as a community and then report on the result with the different combinations of ingredients, we could advance much faster that one individual lab.

After some time this might be so profitable that several person might offer these services and this will give competition and hopefully drive the price down. Therefore, I urge the one with access to a lab to get started as soon as possible; the high profit will be in the beginning.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You should not, and no one should ever be sold a potentially deadly design for the home. Whatever goes to the home market must be made from safe materials. There are no acceptable casualties for failing to look for safe materials to mass produce a product with.

  • Joseph J
    • SG

      Even in tablet form, LiAlH4 requires special handling. Looks like not suitable for traditional mail either. The capsule preparation idea from Axil Axil is interesting (below)–not sure if that would somehow skirt mailing restrictions. Most likely you would need a special carrier that handles these kinds of materials or go to the science materials outlet in person to pick some up. I think for the truly independent and courageous garage-tinkerers, an investment in a glove box is probably a necessity. The vessels themselves will be quickly improved from here on (i.e., make them thicker) so that risk of explosion will drop dramatically. The well-qualified labs are going to be best suited to do the initial replications. With time, it will be made safe enough for home tinkerers.

      • Obvious

        I was considering the possibility that lithiated carbon from a Li battery might work for those that can’t get the more reactive stuff. Still potentially dangerous to extract, but at least the shipping problem is solved.

        • SG

          Interesting thought, although you would still need to figure out how to get the hydrogen in the vessel. LiAlH4 appears to kill two birds with one stone (the lithium source and the hydrogen source).

          • Obvious

            I agree. Without a chemistry degree, or other similar paperwork, it’s tricky to get the Li hydrides without attracting undesirable attention these days. Easier in some countries than others… In the 50’s, you might have got some of these chemicals in a cheap chemistry set. Nowadays, the SWAT team shows up when you order things like this when you are an Average Joe Citizen.

  • Ophelia Rump

    LiAlH4 is for those equipped to handle it. It should be kept that way. LiAlH4 is not something you want to end up in people’s homes. Find an alternative which is safer for a wider community effort. It may not be as convenient for an individual to handle but it could be that it works much better for a community effort.

    • Alain Samoun

      NaBH4 is safer,if Li is necessary ,it can be added as LiOH. But all chemical are dangerous and should be handled by knowledgeable people.

  • Axil Axil

    The fuel could be immobilized in a plastic binder mixture like Polypropylene which is made up of carbon and hydrogen. Polypropylene decomposes at 450C. This would leave only carbon as a non LENR active element. Carbon might not hurt the reaction. Carbon was found in Rossi’s fuel load in the Lugano test..

    Decomposition temperature reference.

  • SG

    As much as I’d like to see this technology spread quickly, my sense is that things are always a bit more complicated that one would hope. Like Bob mentioned below, such things might be harmful to the receiver, particularly if the receiver is inexperienced at such things.

    Given that the LiAlH4 needs to be handled properly to be safe, but is also apparently a key ingredient to making this work, it probably makes sense for MFMP to provide sealed vessels containing the Nickel and LiAlH4 mix to interested qualified labs who have the experience to handle such things. The labs could even sign a waiver releasing MFMP from any liability. If the labs are interested enough in gaining the personal knowledge of whether LENR+ works or not, they will likely be quite happy to receive the sealed vessel and sign the waiver. The MFMP could charge for this service, which could help further their own research efforts.

    In due time, end products will have sealed vessels that have undergone extensive safety testing (tensile strength, heat resistance, performance, etc), that there will be little question that they are as safe as your open natural gas flame in your kitchen, microwave oven, electrical circuit panel in your garage, hybrid car lithium ion battery pack, gasoline powered lawn mower, etc. (just to give a few examples). The evolution to this end product will take time, but may happen sooner than we all think given the incredible market forces that will be in play.

  • John M

    Sounds like a Kickstarter campaign.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We wanted to do something like this, but kickstarter rules say you cannot ship anything that may be harmful to the receiver.