Growing Track Record Indicates Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat Should be Taken Seriously

I’ve been following the story of the E-Cat since early 2011, and paid close attention to most of what Andrea Rossi has written and spoken over the years — and he has written and said a lot. He has always expressed confidence in the reality and validity of his technology, and has made many statements about what he has hoped and expected with the E-Cat.

Some things have not panned out as he has predicted, at least yet. For example in 2011 he was hopeful that domestic E-Cats would be on the market very quickly, and we have not seen them yet (apparently due to no safety certification).

However, I would contend that in important statements about things over which he has some control, that Andrea Rossi has a very good track record of coming through on his projections. Here are some examples that come to mind.

  • Rossi said that he would perform a test of a 1 MW Plant in October 2011 — it happened.
  • Rossi said that he had received safety certification for the 1 MW Plant — he produced a signed safety certificate from SGS.
  • Rossi said that he had sold his IP to an American company — Industrial Heat issued a press release announcing their acquisition of the rights to the E-Cat.
  • Rossi said that a 1 MW plant shipped to a US customer after acceptance testing. Documents show this happened.
  • Rossi said there would be third party testing of the E-Cat, with reports published. It happened (three times).
  • Rossi said that he was building a new 1 MW plant to be installed at a customer site. Photos were produced of the plant being manufactured.

My point here is that it does not seem wise to dismiss Andrea Rossi when he speaks of the E-Cat. He has a strong and growing track record of delivering on important pronouncements. In my estimation the chances of him being involved in a grand deception, a fraud, a con, or living in some kind of delusional state, is zero. All the evidence cited above point to the fact that Rossi is a serious, committed and capable scientist/engineer/entrepreneur.

Of course the big question that everyone wants to know is when the E-Cat will be on the market, producing useful energy. None of the above points made above can tell us that, and Rossi himself won’t make a definitive prediction about that. He says he is hopeful, but has not predicted victory — ‘results could be positive or negative’ is his mantra when it comes to predictions.

But when Rossi says something significant about the E-Cat — I don’t think we are smart to ignore or dismiss it. If he does produce what he intends (a working LENR plant that saves a customer money) it will be something historic — a demonstrable new way of producing efficient energy — that could have far-reaching implications for the world.

Frank Acland

  • 16rpark18

    …it will be an enormous pleasure to watch (its popcorn time) as the petrochemical industry slowly withers away, becoming less and less relevant, eventually shrinking into a tiny, impotent niche market.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “He has a strong and growing track record of delivering on important pronouncements.”

    Yes, he saw it through!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuv-1tR78aI

  • Jonnyb

    Rossi knows he has a working product. It is just difficult to control, yet so was the first aircraft. Give it 25 years and it will be unrecognisable. We have no reason not to believe everything Rossi tells us, well in my opinion.

  • jousterusa

    Along those lines, Frank, I was very pleasantly surprised to see the latest incarnation of the IMw E-Cat in the photographs you published yesterday. They showed a busy work force, and a very professional and commercial device that is light years ahead of what was demonstrated in Bologna in 2012 (?). This is certainly no fraud and no con game. It won’t be long before several of these devices completely replace a power plant somewhere, as they do in my novel about the E-Cat, “Power.” Thanks for your statement of faith!

  • protn7

    I’m still waiting to see the 1 Megawatt plant making steam etc.

  • Eyedoc

    2016 prediction: Rossi & IH will BE a giant corporation

  • Surveilz

    Let us hope for widespread replication and optimization.

  • Navdrew

    I asked Dr. Rossi several days ago if the plants he said were built for the military customer were ever delivered. He has yet to post a response. Perhaps that information is classified.

  • Frank McD

    I’ve been following this since 2011 and there are a couple of points that I don’t see made here:
    1. Rossi’s experience with hydrogenating catalysts during his Petroldragon days would have made him very familiar with Nickle and Lithium and their ability to lower the amount of energy it takes to hydrogenate chemical compound. He also may have observed unexplainable releases of energy during mishaps with these compounds that chemical calorimetry would not have explained. I don’t believe that the hydrogenation mechanism has been adequately explained, at least it wasn’t when I took chemistry a while back.
    2. Rossi is a VERY forward thinker. This doesn’t make him a liar, but it does look bad to those that live and breathe the scientific method as they would some religious dogma; it could also disappoint those that take his statements at face value and not as forward thinking statements.
    3. The likelihood of any unlikely but not impossible process occurring here on the surface of the earth is greatly increased by human thought and teamwork – a great example is the atomic bomb. Atomic explosions may have occurred naturally on or in the earth at some time, but not at the frequency they did when a large team of physicists, engineers and workers had a goal to bring them about.

  • nightcreature3

    I enjoyed watching the latest pictures of a 1MW plant as much as everyone else. This is, after all, history in the making. On this site, we crave these tasty morsels, if only to periodically reassure ourselves that progress on the e-cat front is still on-going (, with Rossi leading the way). Moreover, if we bear in mind that this is not just some improvised test-bed but rather a standardized well planned commercial assembly, utilizing many off-the-shelf parts, one cannot help wondering how many more have already been built.

    Sure enough, certification will be required for the general market, but there are probably quite a good number of places where these could already be running in secret. In trying to answer Frank’s question, my guess would be, that there already are many e-cats in service, and that we who are in dark, are destined to only benefit from this technology by what comes through from the trickle-down effect.

    It would certainly be interesting, if one of us happened to stumble on a working plant and reported the find here on ECW. Perhaps, Industrial Heat are trying to find out how far they can infiltrate the market before it all becomes common knowledge.

  • psi2u2

    I agree, re-branding along those lines is a great idea.

  • psi2u2

    Great article, I concur, Frank. Its important to make the distinction you do between matters over which Rossi ultimately has little or no control, and those which he does. As you say, his track record is strong in the latter category. Yes, there are some bothersome discrepancies, like a 31 day test instead of a 6 month one. But if we ignore for a moment the 6 months one has to admit that 31 days is pretty impressive, unless you totally discount the findings of the independent team, which at this point in time I see no reason to do. The recent release of the photos of the 1 MW industrial plant is, imho, a significant addition to this growing list of “Rossi says, and Rossi has done.”

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I could imagine that the six months were the timeframe that had been set for preparation, carrying out, and evaluation of the test.

    • Omega Z

      psi2u2

      We also need to make another distinction. The 6 month test is what was proposed by the professors after the 1st, 3rd party test. Likely as not, These professors looked at the funding provided & facilities available & determined that a 32 day test frame served all their needs.

      Excess heat production beyond any possible chemical reactions, Some Idea of the energy density of the fuel, Long enough to show any isotopic changes to the fuel/ash. It served it’s purpose & a longer time frame wouldn’t have accomplished anymore or provided any other answers.

      In essence, the same questions raised about this test wouldn’t have differed had it actually ran for 6 months. And Note that the time the professors were willing to commit to this test would fall under, Beyond Rossi’s control.

      I would also note, that many who complain that the test wasn’t actually 6 months long are presently complaining about the 1 year pilot plant test being to long.

      Rossi will never be able to make everyone happy. It’s a losing proposition. Rossi needs to ignore this & just do what he feels he needs to do to make his investors happy. They are the ones that count. They control the purse strings.

  • Gerard McEk

    How credible is Rossi? I do not doubt that he has achieved what has been proven by the third party tests. The 1 MW plant will exist and I believe Rossi enough that I do not doubt its existence. Whether or not it performs, we have to wait until the end of the year or beyond and even then we have to see if we are informed. These things may also depend on IH. How reliable is that party? Can they block Rossi’s information stream when they think they should e.g. if more can profit can be made? When money comes into play only a few people can be trusted. Let us hope these Rossi and IH can withstand that temptation, but I have some doubt.

  • LuFong

    I’ve been taking the E-Cat seriously since before the 1MW plant demonstration in October 2011. For me the most significant indications that the E-Cat is real and viable are a) Cherokee/IH’s involvement with Rossi b) replication attempts, while currently unsuccessful, have indicated that there is real substance behind Rossi’s devices.

    The items Frank listed to me, while generally positive, all have significant issues and by themselves are not enough for me to believe that the E-Cat is anywhere near as advertised. For me the problem with the E-Cat is not a black and white one. It is a gray—how much truth is there in these indicators and what Rossi says? For example, the picture of the 1MW plants are encouraging but Rossi has been claiming a visitable 1MW plant since late 2011 and here we are in early 2015 with a few pictures, a wait till end of 2015/early 2016 and no guarantee that there will be a fully operational (as claimed) and visitable plant. I can say similar things about each point Frank listed but won’t.

    The situation with the E-Cat is not black or white, it’s gray. While it’s important to listen carefully to what Rossi says, it’s probably also important to keep in mind what J.T. Vaughn said (paraphrasing), what Rossi says is not entirely credible.

    • GreenWin

      What J.T. Vaughn “said” as reported by a supervisor of a NC radiation inspector talking off record, is at very best HEARSAY. Which is another word for BS. It is not evidence or fact and is inadmissible in any court. Bitc*ing and moaning about a “visitable” plant does nothing to invalidate E-Cat or Rossi’s intention to allow plant visits by invited people. Certain “invitees” may have already visited the prototype installation for all we know. It is doubtful they would be allowed to make public comment before the end of the test period.
      And try to get things straight LuFong, “replication attempts” by Parkhomov ARE successful according to his published paper. A paper being presented at several mainstream science conferences in Russia. In short, quit whining.

      • LuFong

        Why the personal attacks, GreenWin? I sense frustration on your part perhaps from licking you get over ECN? You should keep that trash talk over there–this blog actually has standards.

        Dare I say, it’s not HEARSAY if the person hearing reports it. It’s now public record too by a state official. Oops, how embarrassing which why you should post these kinds of things over at ECN where they are used to it.

        And overall the attempts to replicate Rossi’s experiments have not been successful. Parkhomov has reported success but MFMP has failed twice now to repeat his success. MFMP has also failed in the DogBone attempts. And Jack Coles experiments with Rossi type fuel has has also been inconclusive. But as I’ve said in my mind the attempts to replicate Rossi’s experiment, why generally not successful, are among the best evidence that Rossi’s E-Cat works.

        The big question of course is what exactly does Rossi have. Clearly you cannot relie on what Rossi says to get this information as Rossi is all over the place with his claims. While there is an element of truth in what Rossi says, you cannot read too much into what he says. Perhaps that is why IH is so quiet–things are still being developed and it’s not clear exactly where this will end up.

        • Kaz

          Yup but I don’t think MFMP has yet attempted replicating part of the Lugano report. The part to get a good baseline calibration. They are still setting things up for that.

          Parkhomov’s test isn’t really a strict replication and was not conclusive.

          To much of a veil of secrecy about the Ecat for replications.

          What seems to be going on is attempts at backward engineering from partial data in order to converge on a working device. That is more exploration rather than some repeat and extend type exploitation.

        • GreenWin

          Er, “luFong” – your interpretation of the expression “…quit whining” is a statement of fact, not a “personal attack.” This however IS: your posts reek of shilliness peppered with tired old FUD. To remind you, that means Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. The creaky agenda of skeptopaths. BTW, the GW posting on ECN is an unauthorized satirist who has borrowed my screen name. I find him rather amusing. 🙂

          • LuFong

            “posts reek of shilliness peppered with tired old FUD”, “creaky agenda of skeptopaths” LOL. It’s just that I’m more interested in getting to the truth of the matter than fighting windmills.

  • yetonemore

    Somewhat off topic: The recently released andrerossi.com website has a very moving depiction of the personal (and legal) trials that Rossi had to go through, along with the rest of his story.

    http://andrea-rossi.com/andrea-rossi-the-valley-of-the-shadow-of-death/

    I appreciate this material may have been partially covered in Mats Lewan’s book, however I think it is important that Rossi (with friends) is publicizing the full story of his supposed “white collar criminal” past.

    This is a brilliant refutation of the viruluskeptic’s bleating, clearly the work of a professional publicist, and so also probably fully backed by IH (which is pointedly asserted to be the owner of the IP).

    In my mind, the story in itself is a signification addition to the inclination to take Rossi seriously, and was probably published with that intent.

    • psi2u2

      Yetone more, this is also very revealing: “Rossi himself said that in the days before internet, the media controlled all news and he had no voice. [7] ”

      This explains a lot about Rossi’s populism – his commitment to bring to the e-cat to the masses and his practice of using the internet to give himself a voice.

  • Valeriy Tarasov

    I totally agree. We are lucky today, since we can watch on-line the life of big discovery, how scientific breakthrough looks in reality when it is coming at the stage of victory.

  • Bob

    I too feel that there is ample evidence to take Rossi seriously. Sometimes peppered with a grain of salt as unknown issues pop up with most projects and can cause delays.

    However, one thing I have been very puzzled by and cannot imagine what the circumstances are…. What is up with the participants of the Lugano test!?!

    1) The test showed a high probability that an unknown reaction was taking place. Not just some little oddity, but one that would revolutionize current thinking, theory and possibly physical laws. I liken this to the following scenario…. a treasure hunter goes on an expedition and finds a huge room of gold and precious jewels. He puts a few coins and jewels in his pocket and comes back to civilization and makes a public statement that he found the most fabulous treasure ever! BUT….. he never goes back to the treasure room and never answers questions about the expedition! He is not heard publicly again. The Lugano testers may have found this “treasure room” but they seemed to have walked away from it!

    2) Some months back, I believe on Vortex-L, it was announced that the Lugano group was going to accept some questions and they would attempt to answer. This seems to have dropped off the radar as well. Again, this test could be among the most game changing events in physics history. Yet they walk away? Or at least I have been unable to find any communications from them.

    This is seems very surreal to me. The evidence is something is happening. Not only with thier own test, but with many tests done by others as well. For them to walk away seems so strange. Any thoughts?

    • ecatworld

      Mats Lewan has said in comments on his website that the Lugano team are involved in further experimentation as part of an update to the report, but he feels sure they don’t have an E-Cat to work with, so some other kind of testing is at hand, it seems.

      • Bob

        Thanks for the info. I sure hope they would still be “investigating this treasure”. I guess they could be running various tests on their measuring devices to confirm that settings and assumptions were proper with the test. Such as confirming that the optical “Optris” thermometer was indeed set and used properly. This would all make sense. Especially since there have been some valid questions put forth. A valid question deserves looking into and does not automatically diminish the report.

        It is too bad they do not have a unit for further testing. I suppose IH is satisfied with the last test and sees no further need. The year long operation in a commercial environment will certainly be more convincing/valuable than most bench top tests would be.

        Hopefully they will make some announcements relatively soon and receive recognition for their efforts.

  • EEStorFanFibb

    “He has a strong and growing track record of delivering on important
    pronouncements. In my estimation the chances of him being involved in a
    grand deception, a fraud, a con, or living in some kind of delusional
    state, is zero.”

    Well said Frank. I totally agree.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      right. fraud can be eliminated.
      not problems however. That is life, and engineering, and business….

  • http://www.facebook.com/ian.walker.7140 Ian Walker

    Hi all

    In reply to Franks’s article:

    I agree, it is matter of record that Rossi has made good on the things he has said.

    It is also a matter of record that Pseudo Sceptics and scepto-paths, such as Krivit and the sock puppet fake person Mary Yugo have been refuted time after time, they are left with just the shreds of the tissue of lies they have written:

    Krivit is not a scientists and has no scientific or engineering qualifications.

    Mary Yugo is an anonymised sock puppet, not even a real person, so has no credentials, scientific or otherwise to be verified.

    Krivit runs a dodgy looking blog site that constantly asks for money to see articles in full.

    Pseudo Sceptics said Rossi had no independent scientists test his reactor but he has first of all at his lab and then independently in Lugano.

    Pseudo Sceptics said that Rossi had no Certification for his reactor but he did and the Certification company showed the certificate

    Pseudo Sceptics said Rossi had no one investing in his IP but the buyer, Cherokee Investment Corps’ Industrial Heat, a two billion dollar corporation that performed Due Diligence on the reactor including having their CEO manufacture one from Rossi’s instructions.

    A certain Pseudo Sceptics supported Rossi’s former partner and the Nickel process Rossi invented, and by extension Rossi; until Rossi kicked them out and also kicked out the Pseudo Sceptic reportedly because he caught him trying put industrial espionage equipment into Rossi’s lab

    Pseudo Sceptics said Rossi was running an investor scam but Rossi took no money from the public and invested his own fortune in developing the reactor. Those who want to buy E-Cats he just put on a waiting list refusing all moneys. He had those who wished to have licenses to sell the product, pay into an escrow account, only to be taken when the commercial product was for sale. Cherokee Investment Corps’ Industrial Heat has since been allowing the licensees their Escrow account money back and the purchasing the licenses at a better than bank rate profit to the licensees.

    Pseudo Sceptics said Rossi defrauded investors in a previous company, this is not true he was exonerated. He was arrested on trumped up charges of pollution, for laws that did not even exist until they were trumped up, instigated by competitors (the Mafia) by a prosecutor who has since gone to jail on corruption charges involving… you guessed it the Mafia. The process used waste to create oil. The Mafia used to have the waste contract. The process Rossi invented is now used to create Bio Diesel. Rossi did bring some Gold in to Italy, presumably to help him keep his company alive and fight the court cases, the tax on this was not paid; that, as far as I am aware, is the sole matter on which he was convicted.

    Pseudo Sceptics said Rossi had no university education but Rossi produced his Diploma and others verified it with his university.

    Krivit claimed to have connections with the DOD but the US Navy castigated him for revealing details of a private conference. IMHO it probably cost him his security clearance if he ever had one. There is rumour Krivit once tried out for the CIA but failed the interview, but IMHO think that it is just that, a rumour.

    Rossi’s latest reactor was built not by him but by Cherokee Investment Corps’s Industrial Heat, The CEO Tom Darden stated this. It was tested at Lugano in Switzerland in an independent lab by scientist working for the Swedish Academy of Sciences (yes the one that hands out the Nobel prizes) and Elforsk the Swedish Energy Research Institute. Elforsk confirmed this.

    The report is available on the Bologna University Library web site, you should read it verify what I have said:

    http://amsacta.unibo.it/4084/1/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf

    At one time Pseudo Sceptics used to say Rossi had no links to scientists at Bologna University. Now they have changed it to, the Scientists are in on the Scam with him.

    The fact that Bill Gates is now in the LENR game should tell you all you need to know but read the report and make your own mind up, rather than listening to anyone else including me.

    The number of people involved in what Pseudo Sceptics call the LENR scam just gets bigger and bigger it involves, universities; research organisations, both private and government, people with Doctorates, Journalists, professors, Nobel Laureates, major corporations, and the richest man the world.

    Eventually you have to realise the Pseudo Sceptics use Scepto-paths as tools Scepto-paths the are ones wearing tin foil hats.

    Kind Regard walker

  • Ivan Khokhotva

    If Rossi proves right (as seems increasingly likely after Lugano) it will be the scandal of the century in mainstream science. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on hot fusion research, with little to show for it, while this gem was lying right under our feet ever since Pons&Fleischmann, dismissed as quackery despite a growing body of evidence to the contrary. A possible solution to arguably the greatest problem of the past 100 years, namely, the scarcity and cost of energy, completely ignored by the mainstream scientific community simply because it did not sit well with shaky theoretical constructs of the time. Will senior heads roll? I certainly hope so.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      the scandal is clear since long, but there it will be unavoidable… but don’t underestimate the academics who own the history books, and the media who own the reality.

      They will blame the victims. as usual.

      • Edac

        Can you please clarify. Who are you referring to as the victims?

        • Warthog

          Those “wildcat” scientists who continued to work on cold fusion after the “science establishment” had officially pronounced it “anathema”, of course.

          You have to make the distinction between the “science establishment”, and “mainstream science”. The current “science establishment” mostly has its origins among the practitioners of what I call “high energy physics” that was so evident in the development of the atomic bomb, and nuclear physics in general during and after WWII.

          The more bureaucratically inclined (and probably less science competent) went into the bigger federal government bureaucracy. And of course, there was a revolving door between that group and academic high-energy physicists, who also became journal editors and similar, as well as carrying out big-budget research on things like “hot fusion”.

          They were the “in group” and held the reins of power at the top of the overall science hierarchy (and largely still do).

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          History book 2020.

          in 2016 a team of physicist of Harwell, MIT and caltech finally discovered LENR. they proposed a theory at last and science started to exist.
          GE quickly developed (2018) GW power plant to retrofit old nuke plant, and Navy developed hybrid reactors to retreat old Pu238.

          Until then the domaine was muddied by free energy supporters who practiced nearly medieval alchemy experiment without any hope of success.

          There were some random success but no theory could explain it, which mean it was not science.

          Those incompetent and deluded scientist troubled the scientific community with faked, erroneous, biased experiments who delayed serious research in that domain, triggering a ban on that subject.
          There papers were so bad, none was published in any noticeable peer reviewed magazine.
          Entrepreneurs have stolen the early technology from MIT probably, in 2015, and SEC pursued them for business fraud. Cherokee is now under Chapter 11.

          Anyway history will remember the 15 march 2016 as the day the planet discovered cold fusion during a press conference.
          The rest should better be ignored to avoid ridicule.
          Science, finally overcome the darkness of delusion and middle age sorcerers.

          • Eyedoc

            Sounds about right , so students can learn the ‘truth’ of this whole alchemy fiasco in the proper corrected terms 😉

            • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

              future will say if I am good predictor…

              when you see how reality is distorted by media (believe me I’m not an 9/11 nor chemtrail conspiracy fan) you can understand that people don’t trust the consensus and imagine really crazy theories…
              the level of lies in the media is amazing…

              most of the opinion of people here on many news stories (I prefer not to name them, Franck have to concentrate of useful subjects) are simply based on lies that one can simply debunk with public data, like we do here.

              this explains why CIA and academics insults some sources (like RT #infoisnotterror , or dissenting scientific journals, or LENR scientists) to prevent people to read the facts. because there are some evidence that can be convincing even if you don’t trust the sources (often it is because the evidence are hidden in the mainstream lies themselves)…

              those mainstream manipulators are fueling the conspiracy theorists, who have reasons to be doubting, but who doubt too much.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yes, they’ll have no qualms about trying to take credit for what they disparaged for a quarter of a century. They’ll feel that their pedigrees entitle them to do so (So, it wouldn’t be theft). They’ll receive loads of funding. Their lack of imagination will be proudly referred to as doing “real science”. And in their hands something simple and elegant like the E-Cat will mutate and metastasize into something like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cb7iqaN91c
            And those who aren’t sufficiently impressed with it will be sent to reeducation camps were they will freeze to death (from global warming).

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yes! Blaming the victim. Here’s an example of that.
        http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/569/2/Goodstein.pdf

        • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

          what is pathetic is that educated writer repeat lies (like that it could be chemical storage, impossible for some results)…

          the tragedy is that since there is no allowed critics of those liars, their lies stay consensus.

          even the skeptic Heinz Gerischer admitted in 1991 that there was overwhelming evidences…

          we have to toast them like liars when they will try to rewrite the history.
          that is what citizen do.

          Entrepreneurs don’t like that violence as it is bad for business. this is our job.

          Note that 2 finance journal and 1 of the 3 LENr deniers (Caltech/MIT/Harwell) were in a conference recently, enthusiasmed by results, and by political support from highest level…

          did you hear it in any news ?
          time to state factually that journalist and academic do lie.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Could Langmuir’s hydrogen torch (1909-1927) have been LENR.
      “…Langmuir refused to believe that he could have seen a gain, due to the influence of the great Dane (Neil Bohr)…”
      http://www.chavascience.com/index.php/en/hydrogen/langmuir-excess-energy-from-hydrogen
      PS
      We need to take another look at the Papp engine.
      http://coldfusionnow.org/plasma-engine-reproduced-now-optimizing-for-efficiency/

  • MasterBlaster7

    I think that most people here take him seriously, Frank. But, let me restate my position again for clarity.

    I remain on the fence. I am leaning about 85% in the direction of this being the real deal. Let me remind people of what 85% is. Most lawyers consider 85% to be the threshold for ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’. That is the strongest consensus in a legal trial. In any serious trial…the real deal would be the decision.

    Even though I remain on the fence…if this was Jonestown…and I drank 85% of the coolaid…well.

    The reason I remain on the fence 15%…is not because the evidence has not been compelling. It is because the implications of this device are so profound. So, tectonically shifting, that until a commercially viable device is producing results, I have to remain a touch skeptical to maintain my objectivity during a possible black swan event.

    I believe that some of the scientists felt the same way during the Manhattan project. And, well.

    I also believe, regardless of the evidence, you will not see movement in the Main Stream Media or Main Stream Science until a commercially viable device is producing results.

    • georgehants

      MasterBlaster7, re. your last paragraph, is not main-stream science meant to lead in the scientific World.
      You like many others seem to just except that they are a crowd of half-witted hangers on, that only come out of the woodwork when other True scientists. outside of the main-stream have done all the work to prove a technology, discovery etc.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Well. There is what main-stream science is meant to do and what main-stream science does.

        • georgehants

          Master, now I am confused, you mean main-line science is leading with Cold Fusion?

          • MasterBlaster7

            George, are you attempting to obfuscate? Never heard of main-line science…and how would that be different from main-stream science?

            • georgehants

              Master, I am never interested in petty bureaucratic arguments.
              Main-line, main-stream I am asking if you are saying establishment science has led with Cold Fusion.
              Thank you

              • MasterBlaster7

                No. Establishment science has tried to bury Fleishman & Pons work for the last 25 years. I think Hagglestein says it best in his MIT cold fusion 101 course. The first thing he says before he gets into his lecture is “beware researching cold fusion….this could bury your career”

                • georgehants

                  Master, many thanks, you said above ——
                  “Well. There is what main-stream science is meant to do and what main-stream science does.”
                  I must apologize as I read it as —–
                  and that is what main-line science does.
                  ——-
                  A great difference, sorry my mistake.

                • MasterBlaster7

                  Oh..no worries. I think that once a commercial plant is producing results that save real business real money….main stream science will be forced to do a 180 on cold fusion and will be forced to commit brains and money to figuring out a viable theory for LENR. But, not before the plant is showing a significant money savings for the client. Simply….Money talks.

    • ecatworld

      I think you are right about many ECW readers, MB — but sometimes I hope that we can extend our reach here beyond the choir.

      • georgehants

        From little acorns great oaks grow, ECW will lead the World of open-science if it chooses.
        Where all honest scientists can come without abuse to whistle-blow on the many crimes being committed just like Cold Fusion.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Hmmm. Well. You will be happy to know that I was talking to an editor of the Washingon Post the other day. I brought up LENR and the e-cat…and, shockingly, she knew what I was talking about. I think its slowly but surely getting out.

        • Surveilz

          My brother holds a PhD in geology and works internationally. I don’t see him often and when I do the conversation is family oriented. But last week I finally dropped the e-cat/LENR bomb on him and nearly dropped off my chair with his reply: “Yeah, I know about it. I guess we should all invest in lithium and nickel now”. It was a defining moment not only for the fact LENR is breaking out, but that the popes of dogma are losing their grip and influence.

          • Nigel Appleton

            Sadly the price of nickel is still dropping, and inventories rising

            • Surveilz

              Besides the point, but the flipside to that is it’s the best time to take a long term position.

              • Nigel Appleton

                Oh, absolutely! I was just sayin’

            • Obvious

              You don’t want that boring magmatic or meteor nickel. One could dig that up almost anywhere if you dig deep enough or go far enough. The sweet isotopically altered stuff is harder to find, but there is some to be found.

            • jousterusa

              That’s a good thing. Think about millions of future users of Home E-Cats that are freezing tonight all over the country. Cheap nickel will help us rescue them.

        • jousterusa

          On its crowd-sourcing blog, when asked about the most interesting topics that might be covered by the Washington Post, cold fusion was tops. But the Post has never gone anywhere with that.

    • Timar

      “The reason I remain on the fence 15%…is not because the evidence has
      not been compelling. It is because the implications of this device are
      so profound.”

      Huh? This can hardly be the basis of a reasonable assessment. Quite the contrary, what you are describing is basically the same psychological mechanism that is behind many peoples’ wilful ignorance or pathological skepticism: cognitive dissonance. It is something so novel and so far beyond our current experience that it can only be deemed “scientifically impossible” or “too good to be true” – or both. Moreover, as soon as you admit that the only rational conclusion is that the E-Cat is a reality, you put yourself up against the majority of all “reasonable” and scientifically educated people, most of whom will deem you a crackpot. So on the one hand there is your own, well-informed reasoning based on a level of knowledge on the subject few others have acquired, on the other hand the prevailing paradigm. It is psychologically tough to withstand that tension for an extended period of time, and I know some poeple who initially seemed very interested in the subject but then lost their patience after a while, waving it off with something like: “if it were true it must have become public” – one (a physicist) even reacted aggressively rejecting at one point when I dared to tell him news on the E-Cat, which is quite telling. They just can’t endure the cognitive dissonance, so they rather deny their own knowlege of the subject than to confront the majority opinion (and they don’t like to be reminded that they should know better).

      • MasterBlaster7

        Wait. Given what I said above, are you calling me a skeptopathic crackpot? I think you are experiencing cognitive dissonance over people that present rational arguments. Actually, that might mean you are a fanatic over LENR and are defending said position. I think it could be reasonably argued that the opposite of a LENR skeptopath would be a LENR fanatic. I think that both stances are unhealthy.

        I dont think you could even call me a skeptic…since I am 15% skeptical. Hmmm…maybe an enthusiast maintaining his objectivity?

        • Timar

          “Wait. Given what I said above, are you calling me a skeptopathic crackpot?”

          What a totally ridicolous allegation! Have you actually read what I wrote or just scanned the text for some buzzwords?

          • MasterBlaster7

            I disagree. And so does the entire US legal system.

            • Timar

              Opinion of the court:

              “The sentence is passed based on compelling and irrefutable evidence, the testimony of several principal witnesses and the confession of the perpretator. However, the judge remains 15% on the fence in order to maintain a balanced position, as required by the US legal system”.

        • Surveilz

          “I think it could be reasonably argued that the opposite of a LENR skeptopath would be a LENR fanatic.”

          I completely agree and read your original post as both balaned and rational. But there is also a reason lawyers fight the good fight in the court of public opinion, sometimes a little cheerleading helps 🙂

      • psi2u2

        I think reasonable people can disagree on the definition of “compelling.” Face it, there were legitimate questions raised about the Lugano report. I’m not saying they were all legitimate, or that the criticisms showed that the report reached a false conclusion, only that some things about the devices and the results are still obscure and confusing. This perspective has been, for the time being, supported by the lack of a public dialogue with the testers, as well as by the difficulties encountered by the FMG and others in reproducing definitively Rossi’s results. Parkhamov is a good start, but until we see several more independent replications on the same scale of excess heat I do believe there is a reasonable basis for skepticism, not to be confused with what usually passes for it in the Michael Shermer tradition.

        • roseland67

          psi2u2,

          Agreed,

          To some, there is compelling evidence of Big Foot, UFO’s, Loch Ness Monster, weeping statues of the virgin Mary, etc.
          The reality is most of us, if not all of us, have never met Andrea Rossi, we know nothing of his policies, practices or experiments, his religion, his motivations, his personal demons. We are simply given some information, you either believe what you are told, or you don’t and you are left to draw your own conclusions.

          His story certainly is compelling to the energy, engineering and physics communities of the world, no doubt.
          The “What If”, discussions are thought provoking, one thing is for sure though, the world is going to change quick if ECAT works as stated, can be scaled, is safe, cost effective, reliable repairable etc.
          Hopefully, Bob can make us all smarter when he returns.

        • Timar

          I agree with you psi2u. Note that I never wrote that there can be no reasonable doubt left (I said that there is a point where any amount of skepticism becomes irrational, but not that we have neccessarily reached that point yet). However, I took offense on MasterBlaster’s odd justification for his skepticism, not on the skepticism per se. Let me repeat the quote:

          “The reason I remain on the fence 15%…is not because the evidence has
          not been compelling. It is because the implications of this device are
          so profound.”

          Aganm, this is not a rational justification but a psychological subterfuge. It’s like John Shea pointed out – with the very same kind of argument you could remain skeptical on the fundamentals of geology and tectonic shift because of the “profound implications”. Maybe that’s why climate skeptics doubt the theory of global warming too….

    • http://magicmusicandmore.com/ Barry

      85% is pretty good MB.

    • psi2u2

      A completely reasonable position to my way of thinking.

    • jousterusa

      Are you as skeptical that a real tectonic shift will produce an earthquake measuring more than 9 points on the Richter scale? That’s what happened in Alaska and Indonesia, remember?

  • georgehants

    Mr. Rossi is one of those few Great people who have ignored the majority, who are negative, short-sighted and incompetent and shown how all of science and mankind should act.
    Not the usual “it can’t be done” that we hear all the time from those lesser individuals of society.
    It is a shame that there seem to be so few like him, those that become leaders usually are self-seeking grasping dictators, only interested in themselves, etc.
    Mr. Rossi has promised that he is not one of these people and that his and IH’s motives are altruistic toward humanity, time will as always tell.
    Cold Fusion has highlighted just how much the wasters in our society must be removed and replaced with able, competent, concerned people that have a goal in life beyond feeding their own coffers and ego’s.
    People who will take a pride in what they can achieve for all of society.

    • Casey

      What I see, Rossi is doing the right way. He want to test his product, so there will not be problems, when it come to mass production, as it is with car industry when tens of thousands or millions are recalled because of some defects.
      The other thing we already see is the evolution in e-cat design. So, if Rossi start production, the competitions don’t have to start from zero. They will work for better designs, and will patent it.
      The way the China industry is doing. Buy the licence, develop new better design, patent it and sale to anyone.