Statement from Industrial Heat Regarding State Inspections and Support of Andrea Rossi’s Work

I received the following statement from JT Vaughn of Industrial Heat, LLC, after I had inquired regarding the position of the company on a recently released report from inspectors from the North Carolina Health and Human Services Department which has been discussed at length here. I, and other inquirers have received confirmation from David Crowley, Manager, Radioactive Materials Branch – Division of Health Service Regulation, that this report was an authentic copy of a report made by inspectors in his department.

I share this statement with the permission of JT Vaughn.

Industrial Heat, LLC has learned of a report confirming the absence of any radioactive materials in our facilities. While the conclusion was sensible — there was no evidence of radioactive material at our site — the report went on to make other observations beyond the scope of the investigation.

Industrial Heat has invested in energy technologies in their early stages of development. ‎We have a long term strategy of spending our resources on ideas which might or might not be successful in the market. We do this because the world still needs new, clean and efficient energy sources. We remain committed to supporting technologies that will reduce the environmental impact of producing energy and raise the standard of‎ living in developing countries.

Industrial Heat acquired certain rights to Andrea Rossi’s LENR technology. The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development, and we are hopeful that our funding can lead to new discoveries. Since the acquisition, there has been no departure from our support for this project, or any other projects.

Any suggestions of the views of Industrial Heat, apart from those described here, do not reflect the views of Industrial Heat or its staff.

  • psi2u2

    You seem to be very stuck on the “n” word.

  • psi2u2

    You confuse “censorship” — something imposed by a government or perhaps an industry — with the preference of posters on this site for substantive discussion that does not depend on *a priori* personal attacks or assumptions. This is not censorship, it is civility.

    • bachcole

      Masterful, psi2u2.

  • Eyedoc

    So ‘LENR’ has a legal government definition now? and it includes the word nuclear ?

  • Timar

    You don’t have to. In my opinion there is little correlation left between the question whether the E-Cat is real and the question of Rossi’s credibility. We now have two (mostly) independent Third Party Reports, we have the Parkhomov replication, we have Industrial Heat’s ongoing support for Rossi and their China relations, we have all the intricate details from Mats Lewan’s book, we have Piantelli’s NiH work soon to be replicated by the MFMP – and last but not least we have more than a quarter of a century of successfull LENR experiments. Given all these facts, I think it is simply the most reasonable assumption that the E-Cat is real – at least principially.

    Btw., until two or three years ago, when Paul fell of the fence, or rather let himself be pulled from the fence by an Australian electronic salesman parroting James Randi (and apparently making a big impression on him, for whatever reason is still beyond me), and the site was overrun by an army skeptopaths, I used to post there a lot.

  • Veblin

    Sure, all we have to do is forget what happened before and everything will be fine. As long as we know why.

    GreenWin who posts here and other sites and the skeptic GreenWin who satirically posts on ECN, doesn’t hide behind several different names and accounts. GreenWin doesn’t boast about how he deceived people on another site. JohnP does those things and that is his price.

  • psi2u2

    Which then makes you wonder about all the incomptency. I suppose it is probably a mistake to expect state auditors to get the correct date on their form or refrain from entering into a semi-public a reported third party hearsay that in its final formulation was clearly intended to damage Ing. Rossi — that makes it even more curious to me that it was such an “exact copy.” Unfortunately I don’t think that’s the only question raised here.

  • psi2u2

    Bachole, I don’t fully agree. I mean, your point is well taken that this statement is a solid confirmation and endorsement of Ing. Rossi and from that point of view the round clearly goes to Rossi et al. again.

    But there is an issue here that is larger than just the future of IH and all the other good guys (and gals) in this LE(N)R (LER? – no, that doesn’t do either, does it?) fight – its about public accountability. If those documents are being arbitrarily withheld, as you can well imagine they might be under these, then that is, to me, a violation of public trust.

  • Warthog

    It is quite possible that the research work is being done in a pre-existing lab facility belonging to one of the other (large) businesses that the founders of I.H. control. It is also quite possible that such a lab will already have the necessary radiological safety equipment and certifications, or can easily obtain them, with no mention at all of the name “Industrial Heat”.

  • Pierre Ordinaire

    I would have expected more enthusiastic support from Mr. Vaughn than that generic PR statement.

    • Veblin

      I see JohnP from ECN is back with a new account. Your old posts now just say Guest.

      Remember the good times you had using the name Pierre Ordinaire to post GreenWin Says: messages from ECN and JNewman would play Hector McNugget who supported you but had trouble writing English.

      Remember the good times you had when you wrote that featured Guest post using the name Hope4Dbest so you could later post You’ve Been Punked Frank. Your friends at ECN loved that.

      What are you planing next for a good time?

      • Pierre Ordinaire

        Nice detective work, Veblin!

      • Andy Kumar

        Veblin,
        The question should be why Frank is allowing thinly disguised skeps to post here. Too much inbreeding is not good for any group.

        • GreenWin

          Andy, you saying it’s taboo for skeps to “know” each other??

      • GreenWin

        Hee hee! Pierre caught shilly shamming. BTW, the “GW” skeptic on ECN stole my identity. Surprisingly common these days.

  • Agaricus

    Agreed. Use of that nomenclature is a serious error, but it is probably too late to rectify this now. I have suggested on a number of occasions that the word ‘nucleonic’ (in recognition of the involvement of various fermions in the exothermic reactions) be substituted for ‘nuclear’, in order to reduce the problems that the use of ‘LENR’ may give rise to.

  • Agaricus

    Given what we know about the techology, there is no indication that anyone in IH is ‘handling radioactive materials, or producing ionising radiation’, so this is not relevant.

  • LCD

    Hopefully but that is not what you expect from somebody who apparently knows beyond a shadow of a doubt it works and acts philanthropic in the way he’s trying to bring new clean energy to the world.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      All products are developed in at least semi stealth. No exceptions. your expectations are beyond unreasonable.

      • LCD

        Ok ay, sorry your delicate world was upset

        • EEStorFanFibb

          think nothing of it. there was no upset in my world at all.

  • Jarea1

    Everybody see positive that IH support Rossi. Me too. However, please don´t forget that:
    1) In the report Mr Vaughn says that he can´t trust on Rossi. One state employee from the health and humans services has no reasons to lie. That worries me. Is this report aunthentic as Frack says?
    2)The report state clear that the whole building is empty and that real construction according to Mr. Vaughn is done in Florida. Is this true?. Has somebody gone there and check that there is somebody there?. Is again this report authentic?. If that is true then Rossi´s is playing with the information to keep secret the real emplacement. Again, it is annoying not to know that not from him but from somebody elese, we need more info about the development. Until know we only have the Lugano report and we need more progress. Besides, is it legal to keep secret the place where you produce your product?, don´t you have to inform the authorities saying the true?
    Can someone clarify this?

    • bachcole

      First, I dismiss anything in that report due to the simple fact that we don’t really know what was said to whom.

      Secondly, Darden, Vaughn a la Cherokee said that Rossi was their man. Cherokee is clearly legitimate. Therefore Rossi is legitimate.

      This sentence is the basis of your confusion: “That worries me.” Stop worrying. Pretend like this radiation inspectors report never passed before your eyes. It doesn’t mean squat because we don’t really know what was said or done. Clearly something is amiss, but disharmony or disconnect between Rossi and I.H. is not one of snafu things.

      • psi2u2

        I find the question of who actually said what to who when pretty remarkable here. You would think that the state inspectors would aspire to a higher degree of professionalism than the sort we are witnessing here, from the strange problem with not knowing what year the document was probated in to the questions of the jurisdiction of the writers to record comments of the sort they allegedly heard, having nothing to do with their jurisdiction.. I mean, whatever had that remark about Rossi to do with the question of radiation or safety standards? Nada. Not a thing. Sure sounds like good overtime to me – but then, I’m a cynic.

    • Omega Z

      Jarea1

      “he can´t trust on Rossi”
      Vaughn didn’t say that at all.
      —————————————————————————-
      The report says- “that Rossi did not appear credible(paraphrase)”
      NOTE the “(paraphrase)”. This is the Investigators interpretation. Not what Vaughn said.
      —————————————————————————-
      This is also a copy of the report posted by Gary Wright & we can’t even be sure that it hasn’t been tampered with. Nor can we obtain an original to discern this.
      —————————————————————————-
      What we do have is a statement by JT Vaughn.

      “the report went on to make other observations beyond the scope of the investigation.”
      The Investigator overstepped his bounds within the investigation.

      Vaughn then says, “The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development, and we are hopeful that our funding can lead to new discoveries. Since the acquisition, there has been no departure from our support for this project”

      It should also be noted that this investigation all began in the middle of November. Just weeks after a very positive TIP Lugano report. It strikes me as strange that JT Vaughn would say anything derogatory about Rossi’s credibility.
      —————————————————————————-
      “is it legal to keep secret the place where you produce your product?”

      This is the U.S. There are regulations & Zoning Laws about the location of factories. There is also a lot of room in defining what a factory is. Thus I can build a lot of things in my back yard garage or shed using a large array of equipment with impunity. So, As long as you abide be these Laws, You don’t really have to tell the Government squat.

      There are other laws that regulate Chemicals & such. Permits are available & inspections may be conducted to make sure you follow the laws pertaining to the storage, use, & disposal of such materials. Again, as long as you abide by the laws, you don’t need to disclose much & many chemicals aren’t even covered except for a safety label on the container.

      IH/Rossi do not use radioactive materials or produce such as the Industrial certification would bare out. What he does would be considered benign & in the U.S. could be done in your garage.

      NOTE: Given the business that Cherokee/Darden are involved in, Fossil Energy & Brown field remediation, It is highly probable that they have business interests that employ or have on retainer that are licensed to handle many radioactive materials. There is a substantial number of people in the U.S. licensed for this. It’s not the roadblock many may imagine.

      Point being, Even if IH/Rossi worked with such materials, it wouldn’t be that big an issue to deal with.

    • Bernie777

      “we only have the Lugano report” and “only” about ten demonstrations, and “only” a hundred excess heat experiments. And the Wright Brothers will never be able to fly.

  • Omega Z

    Note it already has an industrial safety certification. Apparently none of this is an issue. Otherwise, why would Rossi even bother with trying to obtain a UL safety certification for residential use. Rossi & IH would know if it would fly or not.

  • Omega Z

    It uses no radioactive materials & produces no radioactive waste. If it produces any ionizing radiation that does not escape the reactor, then it would be no different then a microwave. A safety certification. Not a game stopper.

  • jousterusa

    I wonder if it was Rossi’s enemy, Steven Krivit, who called the health departent? In any case, this evaluation report seems much more definitive and useful as a p.r. and marketing tool than the one we got from Florida. Nonetheless, it cannot explain the apparent nuclear process that like alchemy transmuted the original elements of the catalyst into different ones. I suppose it’s possible that there is a new kind of process, neither chemical nor nuclear, that would as yet be nameless and still to be definitively demonstrated. I am not sure, after this report, that the word “nuclear” is
    appropriate for what we are seeing.

    • clovis ray

      HI, Joe. I to believe it is something new, to the world, and needs all hands on deck, to identify this kitty, we may find that it has nothing to do with LENR, and more to do with superconductive and magnetics , than nuclear transmutation, it would seem that some kinds of magnetism , can materialize , or be make solid, maybe this accounts for the transmuted material.

    • psi2u2

      Well it also could have been Gary Wright. It would certainly be interesting to know to what extent either of them was involved in this. I would think that if Gary Wright were involved in it in any way, that it would destroy his credibility forever. I mean, if he wants to go about stirring up trouble for Dr. Rossi on his own time, that is one thing. But he can’t be both the instigator and the journalist. Its a conflict of interest.

  • Chris, Italy

    Neither forged, nor reflecting the views of IH. Either seemed wierd to me.

    It is of course a lot less wierd that these dumb bureaucrats screwed up in reporting things.

  • Omega Z

    Gary Wright went on a fishing expedition trying to stir the pot.

    From some of the posts,
    What it appears to have done is CONFIRM that Industrial Heat is still in full support of Rossi.
    Something that some have wondered about because Industrial Heat is So Silent on the subject otherwise.

    IH/Rossi-1
    Gary Wright-0

  • Omega Z

    Albert

    Reading the Report. Does it make sense. NO.

    You know, Some Government personnel can be real Dick’s, But many are good people if you treat them with respect. They are just doing their job. A little respect can go a long way & they can be sympathetic to your position.

    I would imagine that JTV was courteous with them & provided certain business details, supplemented by Gary Wrights M.O.. Gary has done this before in Florida. Government people tend to frown on being used for personal fishing expeditions.

    Note: Without any objections, They accept an empty building for inspection never even seeing Rossi & went on their merry way. They sent a copy of their investigation to Wright. Job done. Gary Wrights obtained nothing for his efforts. It would be interesting to know if he tampered with the report before putting it on the net. A little cut & paste maybe.

    Regardless, It’s the only thing that makes sense within the context of the report. They were made aware of the circumstances by JTV & just went through the motions.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Now no one ever said anything about decoys, you should not make things up.

    • AlbertNN

      Sorry, I misunderstood your comment about the professionalism of using empty warehouses. But if you by that are saying that there are no development activity going on anywhere, I am a bit lost on your point.

      • Ophelia Rump

        My point is that they were professional about how they setup their corporations and their locations from the outset.

  • Agaricus

    That’s how I would see it. They received a complaint, they investigated, found no substance to the complaint, and reported to that effect. Job done, time for a coffee.

  • Agaricus

    Radiological testing under operational conditions will be a requirement of industrial certification (operator health & safety, environmental emissions and waste handling, etc). It will be a lot more rigorous than a couple of local officials wandering around armed with radiation meters. Until then, IH will try to keeps their heads down (we are probably not helping in that respect).

    • Omega Z

      Rossi has already obtained Safety certification for Industrial use. This is not an issue. Certification for residential use will take longer as there will be no technicians present during operation. It will require operational data for a set period of time on a set number of reactors to obtain this.

      • Agaricus

        I assume that Rossi’s claim of certification refers to the SGS voluntary safety certification scheme. If units are to be sold or operated on the premises of a private company, each unit manufactured will need a stack of other tests and paperwork relating to ‘health and safety’ from operator’s POV, electrical safety and fail-safe shutdown provisions, signage and emergency procedures, strength testing of pressure vessels and pipework, and potential atmospheric or hydrological contamination, including potential radiological dangers.

        In Europe, again eeach plant manufactured would be subject to EU safety testing, i.e., the relevant IEC certifications for electrical safety systems, Directive 97/23/EC for pressure vessels (part of the CE certification process) and probably a host of other legislation covering health and safety considerations such as thermal insulation, ionising emissions testing, hoses and couplings, fail safe systems and the like. If CF is designated as a nuclear process, then much stricter control system testing is required to IEC 61513, and detailed shielding, integrity and containment testing would be required, along with the installation of all manner of detection/alarm/shutdown systems. Each unit produced would have to have its own pressure vessel, pipework and IEC certification but most of the other stuff would probably carry over. There are probably equivalents to each of the above in the US.

        • Omega Z

          I think your lumping everything into 1 pile. There is a difference between an SGS certification of such & QC control or simple safety inspections.

          An SGS certification is primarily about a products design, the components used & whether it meets certain safety standards under certain uses.. With some products, they may require or suggest a certified manufacturing process or the manufacturer may ask that a process be certified.

          If a manufacturer designed a new boiler, they could have it certified by SGS. As long as they don’t stray from that design, they can mass produce them & attach the SGS markings on each & everyone with no further involvement by/from SGS.

          The manufacturer may even substitute a different safety valve or other components as long as it is for the same purpose & meets or exceeds the specifications of the device it replaces without further certification required.

          Most manufactures implement their own safety inspection process or QC systems, but most of this is just good business practices & has nothing further to do with SGS.

          Safety Certification for Rossi’s E-cat would concern only the E-cat & apparatus associated with it(Controls etc). If an already certified boiler & exchanger system are used, then a standard inspection would suffice. Little different then having a boiler heating system installed in your home, except for Industrial use which tends to be more lenient. You’ll have skilled/trained technicians present during all periods of operation.

          An inspection of a home heating system or newly wired home or device is done by someone knowledgeable & skilled that would merely inspect whether the proper materials, switches etc were used & installed according to best practices. They do not test every little thing. In fact, if you install a new electrical service in you home or business, it usually doesn’t & isn’t even supposed to have power connected to it until after the inspection.

          As to IH/Rossi’s pilot plant. I’m sure the E-cats have been certified & the necessary inspections have been done. If your waiting for them to publish such certification. Good luck with that. Their not allowed to. Rossi had to ask for a special exception when he published his SGS certification for the Lt E-cat.

          As the 1Mw E-cat is a pilot plant, they probably have a lot of leeway as it is highly subject to change. Some safety certification may apply when it is done, But will not be required for additional plants. Certification is once & done. A local inspector is all that will be required for additional installations.

          I really don’t understand the fuss & concern with certification. Especially for industrial use. The hardest part would be scheduling when you, they & your product are ready & available at the same time.

          Otherwise, You pay them their money, they test it & either pass it, pass it with caveats/suggestions to make it safer & check to see that you implemented the changes or reject it. In which case, they provide information on what it will take to pass certification. Not that big a deal.

          For residential, it is much harder, due to the fact, you don’t have technicians always present. The product has to be much more robust as to safety standards & a lot of safety data based on operational history because of possible unknowns of a new technology. This will come from the industrial use.

          Note that commercial microwaves provided the safety data for general consumer products.

  • TomR

    It might matter to some people if the report, that is being shown on the internet, is doctored up from the original.

  • John

    Now I believe people can understand why as a researcher I call it LEN-R (Low energy reactions) long time ago I took the “N” word from it…. You people stay in this path and bad things are going to hit the technology starting in Carolina spreading all over the world and internet… Please stop calling “N”…

    • Ophelia Rump

      It still has all the letters, you just threw in a dash.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Well, maybe it’s just that it could be a fusion-fission reaction that would release all its energy as kinetic energy (heat). Therefore, no gamma rays would be detected.
      For example:
      Li(7) + Ni(61) > Ga(68)* > Li(6) + Ni(62) 3.34 MeV

      Li(7) + Ni(60) > Ga(67)* > Li(6) + Ni(61) 0,569 MeV

      Li(7) + Ni(59) > Ga(66)* > Li(6) + Ni(60) 4.14 MeV

      Li(7) + Ni(58) > Ga(65)* > Li(6) + Ni(59) 1.75 MeV

  • http://magicmusicandmore.com/ Barry

    Tried to find the original NCHHS record of the report.

    Hi Mr. Crowley
    I’ve been trying to find
    allegation 2015-01 without any luck. Is it closed to the public? I did a search
    at http://www.ncradiation.net If you could point me in the right direction I’d appreciate it.
    Thanks, Barry Simon

    Mr. Simon,

    Per the North Carolina Radiation Protection Section’s policy for
    securing allegation information, all documents are to be treated as
    confidential and not to be disclosed for public inquiries.
    Very respectfully,
    David Crowley

    N.C. Department of
    Health and Human Services
    Manager, Radioactive
    Materials Branch – Division of Health Service Regulation
    5505 Creedmoor Rd, First
    Floor, Raleigh, NC 27612
    1645 MSC, Raleigh NC
    27699-1645
    Phone: 919-814-2303
    [email protected]
    http://www.ncradiation.net
    http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dhsr/

    • Agaricus

      Nice try! The acid test of the truth of that statement is whether or not you were able to access any other complaints and investigation reports through their website?

    • Eyedoc

      Yep, government at its best again….nothing to see here, move along

  • blanco69

    Agreed. If you’re happy to go along with the concept of low energy NUCLEAR reactions then surely, you should not be surprised when certain environmental government departments start knocking your door. The trick is to maintain the misterious black magic effect after those agencies have left saying that there is nothing nuclear going on here.

  • pg

    Anybody has any idea about this?

    http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.01474

    It seems another replication of Rossi’s work

    • http://magicmusicandmore.com/ Barry

      Wow, looks interesting.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        It’s a theory paper, not a replication.

        “Experimental observations, which may be related to our theoretical findings, are dealt with.”