Rossi: Domestic E-Cats Still a Priority for Industrial Heat

When Industrial Heat bought Rossi’s technology it seemed that the future for E-Cat technology would be in the industrial arena. Before the IH era, Andrea Rossi had talked enthusiastically about the mass creation of domestic E-Cats that could be used for home heating and, in time, electricity generation. He said the key for this to become a reality would be safety certification.

Then Rossi reported that safety certification would not be as quick as he had once hoped. He said that certifiers would need thousands of hours of data from operating E-Cats to check its performance, and that data was not available to them. So the focus shifted to industrial E-Cat plants, and that is where we are now, with Rossi saying he is now running his first 1 MW plant in an extended on-site industrial test, before revealing it to the public.

However, recent comments by Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics suggest that plans for the domestic E-Cat have not been placed on hold. Here’s a recent comment by him on the topic.

Stefano:
Andrea Rossi
January 5th, 2015 at 2:48 PM
Stefano:
You asked, in Italian, when the domestic E-Cat will go in the market.
Surely it will go in the market. The “when” depends on a factor that does not depend on us, which is the safety certification. We are working strong on it, as well as on the technology of the same, very well developed. Once obtained the certification we will unleash all the strategy to produce the E-Cats in economy scale, to make them competitive beyond any attempt of reverse engineering.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

According to Rossi in other comments he has made recently, is the production of these units in the millions, and producing them at such low prices that it would discourage competitors from bothering to reverse engineer them and try to sell them:

“When our domestic small E-Cats will hit the market we will not have anymore a reverse engineering problem, as I already explained, because the economy scale will allow prices that will make competition not convenient. We are working on it.”

Rossi has said that the technology behind the small E-Cats is well developed and basically ready to go. Certification has not been obtained however, and still not guaranteed.

  • Chris

    Wow – THIS would be some serious strategy. I haven’t heard anyone mention this yet. What a way to put a nail in the coffin of the competition…

  • Omega Z

    Abd

    I believe there is soft evidence that a 1Mw plant was sold/delivered, however shortly after, Rossi had the break that allowed the development of the Hot-cat & the additional 11 optional sales never took place. This 1 sale being of an exploratory Military project, It is highly probable that we will never know for certain. At least, Not in our lifetime. Maybe 50/75 years from now, it will be revealed in a documentary.

    Of your 3 possibilities, I Find #2 the most probable with 3 caveats.
    #1, Rossi does care & he knows the market will spread the technology far & wide faster then any other method.
    #2, Rossi is still overcoming Issues with the Pilot plant. Tho control is more complex, many of these issues would also have effected the home units. So in effect, it isn’t quite ready for market.
    #3, The industrial path is necessary to obtain the safety data for UL certification. Just 10 of these 1Mw plants can provide data on several 1000 individual reactors & several million operational hours in a single year. Unless some major safety issue pops up, UL certification is mostly a given. Note, I doubt a 1400’C hot cat will ever be approved for single residential setting Tho Possible in a large complex with a certified technician present.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Funny how the “housewife of Voghera” (A. Rossi) is such a great safety concern. I agree, however: one accident and the whole potential might be demonized.

  • jousterusa

    Picture the old, skinny, grey-haired fella in his flannel long johns sitting at his kitchen table in upstate New York late this January evening, with the winds howling and the wind chill somewhere below -15, wondering where money for his heating oil will come from in February if this weather keeps up, and drumming his fingers on the tabletop as he reads about plans to bring the E-Cat into American homes at an affordable price. Thrum, thrum, thrum, ta-dum. He has a long, cold wait ahead, as do all of the shivering people in this world.

  • little al

    IMHO with 100 + e-cats in the industrial plant, it should not take that long to accumulate 1000 hours of safety data

  • blanco69

    ” The ‘when’ does not depend on us…” This suggests that there are domestic ecats already around which are being ‘held back’ by certifiers whilst they gather their prudent safety information. The reality is that there are no ‘certifiers’ currently being presented with domestic ecat data for them to reject. So in that respect, the “when” very much depends on Rossi and IH. The mass production theory about “dont release until they’re so cheap it’s not worth it” is also convenient in the sense that it adds at least another year until we see a domestic ecat in the real world.

  • LilyLover

    “Domestic Ecat is still a priority for IH”?
    >>
    It means –
    that had always been an important priority – sidetracked for Hot-Cat.
    Now that the Hot-Cat is well behaving, he’s gonna tame the domestic Cat.
    “The ECAT is a global necessity, not a domestic priority. mercy”
    >>
    BTW it is a domestic priority all over the Globe.
    Domestic does not mean US-only.
    Domestic as in domesticated cats, E-Cat is a Global-domestic priority.
    He is merciful!! 🙂
    🙂

  • LilyLover

    With 1000s of hours of safety data, AND ultrafast Chinese authorities certifying E-Cat; the UL/CE won’t want to appear as oilin-bankers’ lapdogs since – people – salute – rising-star. So, Rossi will indirectly coerce UL/CE using their own lethargic inertia much like what the ”

    Phaeton Rudegar” did to Stephen Pompus, into acting nimbly certifying E-Cat.
    It will happen. Soon. Have no doubt.
    Home E-Cat in 2015.
    After that, watch how quickly wikiPedagogia changes the sequence of their adjectives.

  • Jimr

    I hate to be a spoil sport but I am extremely leery of statements made by Rossi. I do take seriously any statements made by his testers or associates. Rossi has and always will exagerate.

    • Keet Claw C

      I know someone close to me that acted in the same manor as Rossi. He was a pure genius. He spoke like that because that’s how he felt about the future outlook of whatever he was working on. He takes things as fact/done deal before the conclusion has been drawn. Forgetting about obstacles that get thrown in front of us regularly. Safety certificates at this point but who knows what’s next..

      Not much hopefully

  • Ophelia Rump

    A heat pump is no competition at all. A heat pump does not generate heat.
    Wells and loops to provide that heat cost tens of thousand of dollars.

    • giovanniontheweb

      actually it is, in either cases I inject 1 KW to obtain 4 KW spending Xtot$ per year , that is called market

    • Chris, Italy

      Of course not but the heat they “don’t generate” is absolutely free. The cost of collecting it depends on the external environment and on how cleverly the engineering is done; if it is too expensive then I would combine the heat pump with thermal solar instead.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Not free when you include the electric pump for the fluid movement.

        • Chris, Italy

          Obviously I didn’t mean that; I meant what the heat pump adds to it.

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

            Living in a well insulated (properly oriented) home, with passive solar, solar thermal and air source heat pump. Electricity bill about £300 per year, LED lighting included, for heating and domestic use. It CAN be done.

  • RyuMaster Gorskov

    According to russian underground lenr researchers I have talked with, the problem with e-cat reactor is that it needs to be clustered i.e. made of many little e-cat blocks to produce lots of energy due to the different kind of problems with elements Rossi uses. Probably Rossi gave up on creating little reactor, and moved on creating big one, where many problems (like, nickel melding at high temperature, which causes reaction to fail) can be avoiding by clustering. Now, when we know what kind of ‘magic’ is happening inside Rossi reactor, it is easy to follow e-cat evolution. So, I’m sure we will not see home e-cat made by Rossi, it is plainly more easier way to build larger plant.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Not sure if I understand… do you say that a large plant is more forgiving because even if few reactors melt the plant still continues to run because of redundancy?

      • Ophelia Rump

        No he is saying that IH will have given up on using small reactors because bigger is better. A common Russian theme. I think it is some kind of cultural delusion.

      • James Andrew Rovnak

        RyuMaster, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_iwdjf1gI Thinking of internal process has progressed some from this song of 2011, but the E-Cat will be a cheap home heating solution, believe me! Biggest problem will be UL certification as it is also current issue being dealt with?

  • georgehants

    Peter, Fortyniner, 49nr. where are you, hope all is well.
    As my main concern is Cold Fusion helping those in need and not making the rich and powerful more rich and powerful, good to hear Mr. Rossi is still trying to break through the establishment attempts to block small units.

    • fortyniner

      Hi George. Still around thanks. The storm just after Christmas dropped a large tree on our telephone line (and on my summer roadster – sob) and I’m still waiting for the line
      to be repaired after 11 days! Meanwhile I’m struggling with a phone with a tiny screen I can just make out, and microscopic virtual ‘keys’ way too small for my fingers. Back online ‘properly’ soon I hope. – Peter

      • ecatworld

        Good to hear from you, Peter — hope things get back to normal for you soon!

      • georgehants

        Peter welcome, sorry to hear of your problems but just think of the pleasure you will have looking back over all my comments. Ha.
        Happy New Year etc.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        Welcome back ‘home’.

  • Matt

    I am tired of hearing that kind of blabla. Wake me up when he is delivering something.

    • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

      I understand your frustration with the long wait.

      From the time I first heard about the prospect of high definition television, I had to wait about 10 long years before I could actually buy one. So 10 years from Rossi’s first public demonstration in Bologna Italy in 2011 would be the year 2021. I suspect LENR will be sold in stores near you long before then, with a number of companies offering products.

  • ronzonni

    I wonder who the certifiers are and why Dr. Rossi doesn’t name them. A bit of pressure on them to hurry would not hurt anything.

  • sc1ttl

    ceft refers to UL, ISO, TUV, and govt entities. ASHRAE etc. takes years. THATS Y ITS IMERATIVEE to remove the word nuclear. if the IEA and NRC get ivolved it will take DECADES.!!!!

    • Mike

      In Europe it will be a notified body which makes all tests independently, for example DVGW and Kiwa. The manufacturer sends the appliance for tests and then waits for the results. Either these notified bodies and test labs develop specific test plans for all kind of security checks or they use some international standard, for example EN xxx. If you test a gas stove for CE marking there are a lot of tests att full and reduced power, emission limits etc. If the manufacturer use an own lab for the tests I believe the lab has to fulfil a lot of requirements regarding measurement accuracy etc.

  • http://renewable.50webs.com/ Christopher Calder

    I think they will be manufactured in China from the very start.

  • EEStorFanFibb

    By Rossi’s own admission his technology WILL be reverse engineered. If Parkhomov can do something like it already based on a report, then ANYONE AND EVERYONE will be able to reverse engineer an ecat once they are on the market and can be dissected/examined. Meanwhile legal/patent IP protection doesn’t look likely either.

    Consequently, for IH, the strategy for maintaining a dominant share of the LENR market, seems to be to flood the world in a huge hurry once they are finally done prepping and getting safety certification established. Seems unlikely that this would have a minimal effect on energy markets as Rossi has claimed in the distant past.

    Rather, in order for IH to maintain a dominant position as a LENR energy market leader they will ramp up production and sales in a big, big way. Others will be forced to do the same as best they can if they want even a small piece of the market. All together, I think we are looking at a very sizable disruption to the global energy markets.

    I look forward to watching the chaos and carnage as the HUGE fortunes are won and lost in short order. Maybe as early as this year.

    • Gerard McEk

      I agree with what you are saying. Additionally, if IH starts automatic production in China, then you can expect low production cost and they will be very competitive.
      I am sure IH needs a colossal R&D to keep their initial advantage, also theoretically. Once science finds out how LENR/CF works, the COP will rise and IH’s advantage will diminish unless they can patent their E-cat.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo
    • Heraklit

      Very nice consept!

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        πάντα ῥεῖ !

    • BroKeeper

      Amazing E-Cat evolutionary advancement since just over a year ago. What are we looking at in just a few years from now? Exciting front row seats.

    • Freethinker

      Alain,

      Very smart images. Kudos to that guy, Daniel Badoual, for the very clear visualization of a home E-Cat.

  • Guru

    I not trust Rossi with his claims about priority for Home E-Cats.
    And it is irrelevant, because HephaHeat mass products will také this sector by storm.
    Game over for Rossi

    • giovanniontheweb

      Hi Guru, I have the impression you are about to confuse horse and char