Economic Times Predicts Fusion (Hot or Cold) Breakthrough

An editorial titled “Fusion reactor: The countdown has begun” by Hari Pukkat on the Economic Times web site — an Indian publication — reviews the recent news about nuclear fusion, focusing on the recent Lockheed Martin announcement, but also mentions that cold fusion research is ongoing in a small community of researchers.

The main message is that fusion research is ongoing and there is likely to be a major breakthrough in the field that will change the energy landscape, but predicting just what that breakthrough will be, or when it will happen is not possible at this point.

Pukkat writes:

“Although it is difficult to plan our energy future based on these claims, a commercial fusion reactor – whether hot or cold – no longer looks like a pipedream. There would be one within the lifetimes of many readers, and probably within the lifetimes of most people in the world. The real question is this: will they be good enough to change the world? . . .

“Fusion technology could make a significant impact one day, but not likely through the combined effect of many incremental advances. We would see one big breakthrough at some point that would overturn the energy landscape and bring forth a new era. It would like the transistor spawning the computer age. We don’t know when this advance will take place. It could be a few years or a few decades away, and most likely before the middle of this century.”

It’s all rather vague, for sure; it seems to be a prediction based on the laws of probability with few specifics. But it’s another sign of more interest in the fusion field and a little more respect being shown to cold fusion.

  • GreenWin

    Ivy, you’re defending a dead horse. We both know that Dr. Bussard called the U.S. Tokamac program “a fraud…” ‘Nuff said. The renewables you name have all contributed to baseload electricity – i.e. they’ve provided a return to the taxpayers. A concept alien to hot fusionists.

    The suggestion that DOE will fund “new ideas” is laughable and will be addressed during Congressional hearings.

    Lockheed Martin is a PUBLIC company traded on the New York Stock Exchange under symbol LMT. Some 80% of Lockheed’s $45B income is from government contracts – which is of course taxpayer money. Every tax payer has a right to question where and how their money is being spent.

    60 years of promises, $250B tax dollars producing ZERO useful energy is hot fusion’s track record. Total FAIL. Here’s a “new idea:” End white collar welfare.

  • GreenWin

    Thanks bachcole. It will be hard for hot fusionists to live down the MIT debacle and subsequent trashing of Pons & Fleischmann. They will only do so when they confess their hubris and make amends.

  • GreenWin

    You left out making license plates, Mike.

  • GreenWin

    Ivy, you seem upset by my (and Dr. Bussard’s) callous opinion of hot fusion. The facts are hot fusionists have promised the taxpayers “breakthroughs, ignition, unlimited clean energy” for 60 + years. We’ve given fusionists some $250 BILLION tax dollars globally and we have gotten NOT ONE WATT useful energy. In the real world expenditure with no achievement of promise for 60 years would have been terminated 40 years ago. This fully qualifies hot fusion as “pie in the sky.”

    Try to understand the karma in all this. Hot fusionists have been given billions$$$, for SIX decades and delivered ZERO useful energy. It’s time for some new ideas.

  • Job001

    Complex sequential learning occurs in many complex chaotic science areas such as for transistors, solar, manufacture, drugs, and for hot and cold fusion. These research areas show progress typified by “Learning Curves”.

    “Learning curves” allow formal and also informal prediction of “breakthroughs” such as by Hari Pukkat. For example, here is a chart on the Tokamak with a questionable time scale on the right side; Tokamak_Progress_Graph.jpg

    CF also has had an even better learning curve with progress toward high COP heat yield and LENR needs a fancy LENR_Progress_Graph also, IMO.

  • jousterusa

    Well! “…fusion research is ongoing and there is likely to be a major breakthrough in the field that will change the energy landscape, but predicting just what that breakthrough will be, or when it will happen is not possible at this point.” This publication – one I’ve never heard of, even when I lived in India – obviously missed the Third Independent Party report and Mats Lewans’ book, “An Impossible Invention.” Either of those would quickly tell a perceptive author where the future of fusion lies: In the laboratories of Industrial Heat LLC and the prodigious brain of Andrea Rossi. Our breakthrough is here; the author’s will never come. After all, you can’t “predict” what has already happened, czn you?

  • GreenWin

    It is odd but the “public humiliation” to come will be of those who clearly impeded the work. These will be the leaders of fossil/fission industry, and academics lurking about the halls of MIT and CalTech. And of course Bob Park’s American Physical Society.

  • georgehants

    bkrharold, of course all understood, but do you not agree that the cure must start somewhere or at least be attempted.
    I have I think a far more optimistic view of humanity, if only they would be allowed to choose their own paths without the coercion and force to comply with those in power, meaning of course the rich.
    I think the average person is basically caring and fair but as you say history has shown they are very easy to lead astray.
    Only a powerful god will lead the way, I think, I like the god of Truth, it almost invariably leads to the best for the most.

  • Gerard McEk

    If hot fusion is to break through then it can only be Dense Fusion Power (See Gordon’s Essay). If it would work as DFP and Gordon predicts, I would be quite happy, epecially because it can directly generate electricity and that may make it quite efficient. I do think that it will generate gamma radiation, though.
    I am quite curious who will win this race.

  • BuildItNow

    More like “The Crime of The Century”. A crime against the planet, far worse than a crime against humanity for deliberately delaying cold fusion.

  • GreenWin

    The hope of PTB is to hype up a Lockheed “compact fusion” gadget that will divert attention from the real deal created by Industrial Heat and other LENR researchers. We’ve even seen a planted story that refers to the Lockheed gimmick as “Cold Fusion.” The reason this will fail is Lockheed will do little better than other hot fusionists; PPPL, General Atomics, MIT, DOE, NIF, ITER, etc, etc.- all pie in the sky white collar welfare programs — according to former Director of the Atomic Energy Commission, Princeton plasma physics guru Dr. Robert Bussard.

    And should they build something that actually fuses atoms, it will also produce dangerous neutrons which will irradiate the device walls producing more toxic waste. But at least mainstream is slowly accepting the idea that fusion IS the future. Next step is to accept that it will be LENR-based fusion. This is a very hard journey for all of mainstream science.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Or to read Rossi’s blog.

  • georgehants

    It must be fair to say that if we did not have a scientific community that was not proven to be unbelievably incompetent and corrupt then we would have been at this point 25 years ago.
    It surly is time to remove the deadwood and wasters in science and bring science to the position of the great pioneers of the early 20th century who searched and open-mindedly found the Quantum reality that is still unknown by the majority of average scientists. brain-washed by an education system that can only be described as laughable.
    A degree in how to light a bunson burner is about as far most of modern science can reach,
    If I wish to discuss with an average scientist anything beyond the petty Dogma and dead-brained teaching of their establishment holy dictates I find almost nothing but non-thinking automatons.
    Perhaps a scientist on page would like to prove me wrong and give a scientific opinion on the Evidence regarding UFO’s. NDE, Telepathy etc.
    Science consists mostly in my experience with a group of uneducated, unthinking, half-wits unable to ever move beyond their establishment enforced education.
    They are ready to blame anybody regarding the horrific delays with Cold Fusion beyond themselves.
    Time for a few public extractions in science to help the incompetent rabble wake-up, I think.

    • LCD

      But the scientific community has also given us lots of good things. Once lenr becomes a stark reality to everybody, heck even magnetic confinement fusion if it happens, there will be some reckoning and the scientific community “should” adjust.

      In this case a few bad apples I think ruined it for everybody else.

      • georgehants

        LCD,why is it that the average scientist seems completely unable to respond in a scientific way.
        According to your argument because there are good helpful bacteria then it is not acceptable to try and find a deference against disease causing bacteria.
        One cannot put the good to offset the bad, the “few bad apples” that have destroyed Cold Fusion etc. research for 25 years, do you not think, should be publicly condemned and removed by the rest of the supposedly competent community.
        Those “few” bad apples appear to me to be more like 95% of practicing science or it would have very little effect on the good outcome.

        • GreenWin

          Most of mainstream scientists are not the “bad” apples as much as they are timid apples. Or sheeples may be more accurate. Since these are government/academic scientists enslaved by the research grant monopoly. The attempt to save face is the only reason for Lockheed’s “breakthrough.”

          • georgehants

            GreenWin, that being the case, then it would seem we are agreed that say 95% of scientists are spine-less immoral wimps willing to allow millions to suffer because they do not have the balls to standup for themselves.
            I can think of another occasion in the 1930’s where that happened and millions suffered in consequence.
            Who amongst science is going to start the ball rolling to put right this criminal apathy?

            • GreenWin

              Well, I might not use your graphic imagery George, but I will say, the preponderance of mainstream scientists do not comprehend “humanitarianism.” Or behave with the independence typical of human nature. They act like robots IMO.

              • georgehants

                GreenWin, I agree and in defense just say that somedays the knowledge and graphic awareness of the suffering of those children and adults without the basic necessities that we all so freely take for granted, gets up my nose.
                Thousands of comments on page, mostly harmlessly regurgitating the same merry go round, but nearly all hiding the responsibility that every scientist bears for that suffering.

                • ecatworld

                  George, I don’t think we can blame every scientist for the failure of cold fusion to show up in the world and solve many of our problems.

                  Scientists are usually specialists who work in a wide variety of fields, most unconnected with cold fusion — and many have done, and continue to do important work to alleviate suffering and solve in one way or another. I think everyone who reads this site have had our lives benefited by the work of scientists.

                  I hope that more scientists will recognize the potential that cold fusion has and get involved in moving it forward.

                • georgehants

                  Admin, I think I made it clear in my first comment that I am not attacking any competent, able, morally responsible scientists.
                  I am attacking only those parts of science that have allowed the current situation with Cold Fusion and many other important areas of science to linger in the dark ages, because of clear corruption, incompetence etc.
                  I will ask you if you feel a responsibility on page to highlight the horrific people and ares that have led Cold Fusion to be in this inexcusable position.
                  Closing one’s eyes and hoping it will go away is not helping the many other scientific subject that are debunked and delayed, such as Research into LSD etc. that was done by Stanislav Grof et al in the 1950’s and who has been bravely fighting debunking and denial ever since, to have his important work recognised.
                  Now new Research is showing his efforts to be correct and useful in the treatment of schizophrenia and all mental problems.
                  Until science changes its ways and becomes responsible in condemning it’s own faults it must be clear to anyone that little progress can be made to improve.
                  You say —
                  “I hope that more scientists will recognize the potential that cold fusion has and get involved in moving it forward.”
                  ——
                  Do you not think that these pages have just that responsibility, to take a lead in helping to highlight and put right the very things you point out.

                • ecatworld

                  Yes, I hope that many scientists come to the site and start to take LENR more seriously.

                • LCD

                  You think 95% are bad.

                • georgehants

                  LCD, as you know you are not actually saying anything just attempting to make a mess of the points made.
                  Let me ask you what complete point or points I have made on this page that you agree or disagree with.
                  Can you manage that do you think?

                • LCD

                  I’ve debated this with you before. It is not something that interests me at this moment. You can talk about science and scientists being bad all you want but as a scientist and researcher I don’t feel that way.

                  I feel like a select few have poisoned the well and one day there will be a day of reckoning but until that day occurs in the full glory of the national public we are just wasting our time continuing to talk about it.

                  I’ve dealt with it first hand and so have others but at the end of the day I don’t have proof and they don’t care what I say they won’t change their mind.

                  I look forward to the day I can rub that proof in their faces and show them how ignorant and conceded they have been, and in turn how much suffering they could have prevented but until that day comes the best i can do is put forward an effort to make that day come faster.

                  Talking about it before then is not optimal. Additionally I don’t feel you have an accurate grasp of the problem because you somehow seem to think scientists know everything about everything. Unfortunately they don’t. We specialize in different areas and often have to trust other experts in other areas. So it’s not surprising to me that a few bad apples can ruin it for everybody. Those bad apples specifically are some in the hot fusion area.

                • georgehants

                  Thank you, let me answer your points. you say —
                  —-“It is not something that interests me”
                  -then why are you answering my comments?
                  —- “You can talk about science and scientists being bad all you want but as a scientist and researcher I don’t feel that way.”
                  -What you feel is obviously completely irrelevant, only Facts matter, it is a proven Fact that the corruption and incompetence destroyed Research with P&F and still does today because of the Fact that many scientists are corrupt and incompetent.
                  —-“I’ve dealt with it first hand and so have others but at the end of the
                  day I don’t have proof and they don’t care what I say they won’t change
                  their mind.”
                  -So you agree that the problem (but apparently are unaware of the proven corruption etc that destroyed P&F.) I state is correct but then give-up, I prefer to continue the fight for better science.
                  —-“I look forward to the day I can rub that proof in their faces and show
                  them how ignorant and conceded they have been, and in turn how much
                  suffering they could have prevented but until that day comes the best i
                  can do is put forward an effort to make that day come faster.”
                  -Again you completely agree with my points and then give-up.
                  —-“Talking about it before then is not optimal. Additionally I don’t feel
                  you have an accurate grasp of the problem because you somehow seem to
                  -If you would like to put up a link where I have ever said or implied that “scientists know everything about everything” I would be amazed as it is just something you have made-up to try and justify your position.
                  —-“So it’s not surprising to me that can ruin it for
                  everybody. Those bad apples specifically are some in the hot fusion
                  area.”
                  -That is clearly ridiculous that “a few bad apples” can destroy Cold Fusion on their own, if the rest of the scientific community are not priest following half-wits. as that is what you must be, just like me implying.
                  —–
                  So you appear to be almost in complete agreement with me but have some kind of “block” that stops you saying so.

                • LCD

                  George I think you are a good person but beyond my ability and desire to reach you.

                  I think everybody on this board has been trying to tell you the same thing but you don’t listen.

                  There is a saying, if you meet a close minded person one day, you met a close minded person. If you meet one the second day, you found two. If you meet one the third day, you’re the close minded person.

                  (I’m paraphrasing)

                • georgehants

                  LCD, you actually expect me to listen to people who are not willing to stand up and change a situation where millions are dying and suffering through the corrupt, incompetent inaction of science,
                  It does not matter to me how many are against doing the right thing.
                  You are saying to change science from its closed minded incompetence is being closed-minded. ha.
                  You choose your important goals in life and I will choose mine.

                • Mike

                  Not that high but they are corrupt to the core.

                • Mike

                  I am not sure about that. Evolutionists are doing the same thing to any competing theories, historians, same story. Politics, man made global warming put forth as fact to collect money from us. Astronomy, same shit, ort cloud anyone. Man I can go on and on. Do the moderate muslims bare any responsibility for the nut case radicals? I say yes, they are the only ones who could stop it. Same with scientists, they all need to stop going along to get along. And put their money where their mouth isn’t.

            • bitplayer

              I would be interested in your views on the following:

              What general percentage of human behavior is governed by a morally judgeable conscious volition versus unconscious and sub-conscious conditioning? (The scope of this assessment can be limited to the top 10% of the population in terms of education and intelligence.)

              If you conclude that it is a moral failing to not expand one’s volitional consciousness so that one can function at a higher moral level (moral in terms of consequences on human suffering), then what are some starting points and available tools for expanding that consciousness?

              Which of these would you recommend based on your personal success with them?

              • georgehants

                bitplayer, if we remove all your highfaluting chat I can say simply —
                It is up to each one of us to do everything we can to help move this World to a position where all basic necessities are given to all and progress to better things is equally available to all, beyond any favour.

                • bitplayer

                  So, would you suggest that scientists reduce the expressions of their analytic thinking to something that is not “highfaluting chat”? And that perhaps we could sustain civilization with analytic thinking that is less precise?

                • georgehants

                  bitplayer, are you only capable of trying to distort the points being made.
                  Would you like to state clearly your position regarding my position in my above answer like an able scientist would?

                • bitplayer

                  Is your position that we a have “a scientific community that was proven to be unbelievably incompetent and corrupt”?

                  Compared to what? Politicians? Career Criminals? Mother Theresa?

                  I suppose your position is theoretically measurable, but not practically so.

                  And more to the point, what are the likely consequences of your position, except to cause the community of scientists to become more defensive?

                  What it is you are trying to achieve with your statements? What actions do you want people to take? To simply agree with you?

                  You may be thinking: “See, bitplayer won’t take a position on my position!” And so I’m at some sort of moral fault.

                  My position is that your position is a set of statements that provide you with some emotional release with your frustration, which is driven by your moral sensibilities. And those I agree with. But with respect to your expressions of those sensibilities, not so much.

                • georgehants

                  bitplayer, you would do well on ECN.
                  Do you think science should be Honest?

                • bitplayer

                  “ECN”? Now you’re just being insulting. I’m disappointed.

                  I think that to cause real change to reduce real human suffering you have to do more than yell “the system sucks”.

                  You have to analyze the system, find an effective action point, stick the crowbar in there, and pull hard.

                  I await your indication of an action point.

                • georgehants

                  bitplayer, are you just unwilling or psychologically unable to answer a simple question?

                • bitplayer

                  Your question is not simple, it is simplistic, because it contains assumptions about meaning which can be interpreted in many ways. If you don’t understand that, there’s no point in further exchanging words.

                  It seems that you are demanding agreement with your position, defending it with naive rhetorical devices, such as insisting that I answer your simplistic questions, and then insulting me when I respond the way I choose.

                  If you read the thread above, I agreed with your moral sensibilities, and disagreed with your position.

                  Since you’ve now insulted me twice, you have demonstrated you are not a fit partner for what I consider to be civilized dialog, and I respectfully withdraw from this conversation.

                • georgehants

                  bitplayer, are you just unwilling or psychologically unable to answer a simple question?

                • LCD

                  Well said bit

              • GreenWin

                Here’re three “starting points:” Consider the 1.6 BILLION human beings without electricity. 780M people lack access to safe/clean water. 3.4M people die each year from water-related disease.

            • Omega Z

              George
              You state that Scientists don’t have the balls to stand up & say,

              YOU’VE GOT THIS ALL WRONG.

              Actually, Some of them did have the balls to do that.
              In the U.S., We call these Brave Souls, Wal-Mart Greeters.

              • georgehants

                Omega Z, of course agreed and what Wonderful human beings those people and scientists are.
                I am of course only referring to those scientists that even today do not have the simple abilities to Research the Evidence for Cold Fusion or UFO’s etc. without opening their incompetent mouths and parroting the official priestly line of totally unscientific Dogma.
                One can see even on these pages the horror shown from many quarters to me plainly speaking the Truth regarding these and many other equally important subjects.
                There is a general attitude of don’t rock the boat, o’dear we must not condemn science and their corrupt incompetent priests, etc. etc.
                Millions died in the second World war crimes because of gutless spineless Germans following the”party line” and keeping out of trouble.
                Are we today no better?

          • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

            yes, no evil, just organization.

    • Frechette

      “…lesser “applied” scientists or “applied” mathematicians that one cannot fairly expect much from.”
      It is these lesser creatures (engineers and applied mathematicians) that make things happen where the tire hits the road so to speak. For instance most so called scientists couldn’t design a practical electronic circuit if their life depended on it. I’ve worked with some of them for better than 30 years.

      • georgehants

        Frechette, scientifically only practicing scientists Research new ground.
        If a humble “applied” scientist does so then he becomes a scientist.
        Is that not obvious?

        • Frechette

          The scientist Newton gave us F=ma. Von Braun an applied scientist (engineer) got us to the moon 3 centuries later.

          • georgehants

            Frechette, if Von Braun personally did research or theoretical work on the unknown then he was clearly a scientist.
            I am amazed how many scientists do not seem to have a clue as to what a scientist is.

            • bachcole

              I am a scientists. It is unknown what level of inflammation eating a banana will cause in my body, although in theory it should cause substantial inflammation because it has high carbs. But it is natural, so I am not sure. So I try two just so I won’t have any trouble seeing the result. Then when I lay on my therapuetic massage bed or jump on my mini-trampoline, I can determine if my inflammation has increased or decreased or stayed the same. My quantification is sort of lame, but it doesn’t matter, as long as I can tell if it got worse, better, or stayed the same. See, even common folks can be scientists.

              • georgehants

                Roger, yes you understand, a qualification means nothing in respect of any scientific or other achievements.
                Many perfectly ordinary people have done great work, the arrogant professionals like to try and put them down as amateurs.

            • Frechette

              He did research on rocket motors which at the time was unknown. He also did research on rocket fuel which was a big unknown. He was one of the few that were ahead of the times in this regard along with far sighted individuals in the US and Russia,