Standing Back and Looking at the 1MW Plant Situation (Timycelyn)

This comment was originally posted by Timycelyn in this thread.

We seem to be so caught up in the switchback of joy and disillusion regarding the 1MW plant at the Customer and the upcoming Independent report, that I thought it was time to stand back a little.

Lest we forget, here are some reminders:

A) There is a real, anomalous heat generating effect that cannot be accounted for by application of current regular understanding of chemistry and physics.

* Multiple validations and studies by a wide slew of researchers. Different techniques, different materials, but probably all encompassed in the same territory of unexplored and unrecognized physics or chemistry – right on the borderline between the two disciplines.

* Rossi’s technique and equipment produces large amounts of heat. The first Independent test was actaully conclusive, and the criticisms of it were, IMHO academic/theoretical; anyone who actually and seriously proposes that these tests were fake needs help with their obviously tenuous understanding of reality.

B) Everyone who gets close to Rossi’s technology is convinced of its total reality.

* IH will have performed extensive due diligence. Subsequent to acquisition, they obviously are in a very hands – on mode, their people are making the kit. They have had plenty of time to go ‘Oh no, it’s a scam/it never works etc’ and cut their losses. Instead, they are investing and have the confidence to take a customer order and deliver. (OK, no doubt under special agreement relating to the fact it is the first and may need support and work on site..)

* All those who have got close to the technology for a period of time (not the sometimes brief demos with Rossis’ paranoia in evidence, like with that Rivet idiot) seem to be convinced of the reality of his technology and the large amounts of heat produced. Where are the dissenters saying “Was with him for x months. Used to believe in it but I never saw it work, I became disillusioned, then I realised I was being scammed and left…. ” Not one. Nada. Zilch. Quite the opposite, even those who for commercial reasons (like the pre-IH distributors) he had to part company with.

So, lets take a big breath, count to ten, and keep a sense of reality here. Sure, the new plant is having teething troubles, and I agree with 49er that this has probably reset some 12 month uninterrupted running thing with the customer, hence Rossi’s (typically ambiguous) comment.

We are way past ‘Is this real or is it smoke and mirrors?’ It’s totally real. The very very worst thing that I can imagine happening now would be for Rossi to be unable to master control and deliver a smooth, reliable output, for this to prove intractable with his approach and it fizzles at IH. I am convinced that the demonstration of an effect is now so clear (and once the 2nd report is out, raised to a power) that if IH cannot deliver, others will (Remember the Chinese?). That, I feel, is the bottom line.

But I do not belive this will be the case for a moment. This sounds like the typical teething you get with newly installed plant, espically when this is version 3 model #1. I mean, wow! This is perhaps 100 hot cats all in parallel in some sort of heat exchanger, with all the balancing and regulation of heat transfer that this implies. If we are hearing ‘It’s settled down, we’re just running up the days towards our 12 month target now’ message in perhaps 3-4 months from now..” I’ll be impressed.

Folks, stand back, take stock, and realise how far we have come!

Cheers

Tim

  • Gerard McEk

    Rossi will succeed, but you can imagine that an one MW plant is not easy to control: The Ecat is temperature controlled (unless they found a better way to control in the meanwhile). Each Ecat will have its own controller, which controls the heat input by an on-off control principle. I assume the heat takeoff is uncontrolled for the individual Ecat. This results in a situation where some Ecats are being under-cooled (and do not produce LENR heat efficiently) and others are being overheated (which switch off). This in combination with the customers demand that the heat output must be controlled to some process variable and voila, you can see that Rossi faces some difficulties. At this moment in time of development I believe the only solution is a flow controlled heat take-off for each individual Ecat.

    • timycelyn

      Mmmm .. sounds all too possible. If the 1Mw heat exchanger does not have an individual flow control possibility built in, I don’t see how it can be really retrofitted – that would be a complete re-design/rebuild of the exchanger.

      However, individual monitoring of the temperature of each e-cat (64,000$ question would be ‘Where?’) might enable the existing heat exchanger to be utilised by driving extra hard the ones that are a bit cool due to too much heat exchange, and backing off on the ones that get a bit hot (due to less efficient heat exchange).

      Of course, the next problem is the complex relationship between the settings on the drive and what the e-cat does, making the type of simplistic control logic above much more complex – again….

      • Gerard McEk

        I made that proposal for individual flow control (although I am aware of the complexity and the total redesign) because I assume the individual Ecats may vary a bit in their performance. It may be possible to once off adjust flows with an orifice, based on a test of the individual Ecats they before build in, but I assume that after a refill they will differ again so I see this as the only solution at this moment.

  • psi2u2

    Excellent summary. I especially concur in the significance of the complete absence of any of Rossi’s close associates stepping forward as disillusioned skeptics. All the relevant sociological evidence suggests the viability of the technology.

  • Heath

    I do not understand the disillusionment. Why are people immediately jumping to the idea that his reactor is having problems? Nothing that Rossi is saying indicates that. Plugging it into a manufacturer’s existing infrastructure to add power? I can imagine all the little details that they need to overcome because integration is a challenge, especially because this reactor produces heat, not electricity. The reactor works, the integration at the customer (probably GE) is the tricky part–and Rossi does not seem worried.

    • bachcole

      The best part: “Rossi does not seem worried.” And I bet Rossi is glad to see Defkalion go under; he won’t have to deal with lawsuits with them.

  • Ophelia Rump

    They should take a lesson learned and stick to their specialty. Reactor Cores. Let others do the fitting work. Fitting will take vast legions of experts which already exist if they only had their hands on a few reactor cores. I understand the need for a practical demonstration, but they should be learning their place in the market from this and license technology, along with selling name brand reactor cores. The world already has boiler makers better qualified for the role.

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    “obviously tenuous understanding of reality” that is it!

    “that if IH cannot deliver, others will (Remember the Chinese?)”

    Think also of EU… 😉
    Probably nothing in the pocket except the good team, the budget, the capacity to build labs, to build factories, to qualify, to attract innovators.

    IH and Rossi should not try to protect his invention. Giving it to the Chinese just selling help for them to go faster than EU could make them billionaire… and EU teams trying to go faster, sucessfully or not, can make billions too.

    there is 6month of GDP of reactor to build to replace all expensive energies. problem is delivering quickly enough, not protecting the IP.

    • hempenearth

      Don’t forget Dorothy, Scarlett and Catherine (the Japanese).