Rossi Confirms Bill McDonough as E-Cat Insider

We have discussed lately comments that American designer William McDonough has made about LENR, and today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics Andrea Rossi was asked by Thomas Florek about whether he was familiar with McDonough’s work and “Cradle to Cradle” philosophy.

Rossi responded:

Thomas Florek:
Yes, I have known William Mc Donough in the factory of IH in Raleigh, and he explained to me the cradle-to-cradle concept. Very smart guy and a brilliant speaker. I agree with the basics of his philosophy.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I see this as a significant remark because if Rossi met with McDonough in Industrial Heat’s Raleigh factory, it would seem to me that McDonough has to be an IH insider, because I don’t think that anyone outside the inner circle would be permitted to know where the IH factory is located, let alone go inside.

It would appear, then, that when Bill McDonough talks about his astonishment about LENR, he is speaking from personal knowledge, rather than just getting second hand information from his friend and business colleague, Tom Darden. It would seem likely to me that McDonough is an investor in Industrial Heat, perhaps on the board of directors, and I think we should be taking seriously his comments about the LENR coming on the market soon.

McDonough is well connected and seems to be widely respected. He has worked with NASA, the Clinton Administration and with Ford motor company, among others, on various design and architectural projects, and we know he has strong connections in China. That he is acquainted with Andrea Rossi and has spent time in Industrial Heat’s factory indicates that he could be a pivotal figure in the unfolding story of the E-Cat and could be very influential in its proliferation.

  • BroKeeper

    In other words, hypothetical ideal – real = tolerable expectation.

  • Omega Z

    I think there will eventually be some as novelties, But it’s not so easy a path. You still need AC electricity. A Turbine/generator, batteries, condenser & other miscellaneous items.
    It’s the need for electricity that holds back many a ideas. That & hours for start up time.

  • LookMoo

    The good things is how this LENR can be introduced without disrupting current systems. Mr Rossi was initially very upbeat about pre-heaters for powerplants that with little effort could be upgraded with ecat to boost energy efficiency several times… overnight..

  • BroKeeper

    This is all very fascinating, but how is possible to eliminate all classes? The only way I know of is to change the human heart, a power reserved for another infinitely above my pay grade.

    • bachcole

      LOL. Don’t worry. She/He/It serves for free. (:->)

      • BroKeeper

        Darn, now you know how much I make.

    • bachcole

      We can’t eliminate all classes. But, in order to avoid revolutions, cruelty, and society’s missing out on the diamonds in the mud, society should be structured in such a way as to encourage a hierarchy of merit and to encourage incentive. Other than that, classes should be discouraged.

      • orsobubu

        Roger, you’ve to excuse me because I didn’t read your email dating back in march. In these cases usually I give an address different from my business address, and I check it only some times during the year. Sorry. I’ll reply soon, even if you are no more interested.

        Then, IMHO you should be better matching counter-revolutions with cruelty, instead of revolutions, that are so a rare event in history.

        • GreenWin

          We might, in these discussion of social structures overlook human and others’ affection for… competition. Not only in the form of political states/cultures, but in every day life: grabbing that parking space, playing Scrabble, financial and athletic “prize wins,” often by exploiting lesser cultures. The world we experience around us, more and more mainstream physicists tell us, is a computer generated illusion. A hologram. A false reality. Therefore, who really cares what happens in an illusory world? Only those who created the illusion to entertain themselves. The spoiled, intergalactic children of lesser gods. When their supplicant avatars no longer “play” or care about the game (which is fundamental to entertainment) — the whole house of cards collapses.

          As it should IMO. As it is now a flimsy house created by those who disrespect emergent cultures, in pursuit of profit and self-aggrandizement. And we are to believe this adolescent behavior derives from an evolved elite or “star” people?? LOL! Greed, the “human” disease, is inexplicably endemic to much of the intelligent universe.

  • BroKeeper

    Very astute reasoning and informative

  • BroKeeper

    I couldn’t have said it better myself (ha). But wait … are you saying because of automation with less and less exploited workers able to purchase of said products we are heading toward manufacturing products only the exploiters can afford?

    What happens next – another Marxist uprising? The last time that happened was under a bourgeoisie government. Today we ‘supposedly’ have the freedom of democratic vote of the masses. What will we vote for? More socialistic reforms like ancient mega empires voting themselves benefits to ruin? Or are we evolving to a Star Trek
    like society where everyone will have non-salary of equal important purposes provided with free necessities and want – true communistic society?

    It appears to me we are entering a new renaissance age with
    different dynamics: near free energy, robots, computers, available technology able to reduce scarcity and cost like clean water/air, food, electricity, better health care, etc. Interesting crossroads we are facing but will wisdom redirect our path.

    The real question is will we be able to overcome and set aside our narcissistic greedy tendencies with altruism? I do see much good arising along with the evil. I pray we do evolve with little violence (no violence is unrealistic) into a society envisioned by Marx, but is it still just a dream turning into another nightmare?

  • timycelyn

    I tried a little fishing on Rossi’s blog this morning, trying to get a sense of how the 1MW plant was doing at the customer prepmises.

    “Dear Andrea,
    now that the 1MW plant has been delivered to your Customer, are you able to return to focusing your attention on the rest of the research you are pursuing, or does the 1MW plant still take up your time?”

    Needless to say, I got a reply that goes straight down the middle and could be taken a number of ways:

    “Timycelyn1:
    I will have to control the operation of the 1 MW plant closely, but also participate to the R&D.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    However, if the 1MW unit was giving big issues at the customer at this point, I would have expected a different type of reply, something along the line of “Totally focussed on this for the time being. No time to play with R&D”

    This feels to me like “Early days, going OK so far, but I’m keeping a darn close eye on it….”

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Way off topic but I wanted to get this thought down.

    Perhaps it is the infrared (heat) SYMETRTICAL stretching of the nickel hydride bonds that causes nickel(64) hydride to absorb its protons and go directly to zinc(66) in an excited state and then the nucleus of zinc dissipates its energy by fissioning into nickel(62) and helium.

    H~~Ni(64)~~H > Zn(66)* > Ni(62) + He(4) 11.8 MeV (no gamma rays)

    Explanation of what occurs at a molecular level during absorption of IR by molecules:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xITzGUjongU

  • BroKeeper

    It is significant considering heat applications, however considering direct electrical conversion which is the real future of the E-Cat a COP of 10 IMO would offset inefficiencies and initial costs.

    • Ophelia Rump

      With 600% more energy out than you put in, even at a sad 20% efficiency in converting the heat to electricity (through a piston steam engine), you are making a 100% return on the cost of fueling it.

      I think you could keep expenses low enough on a 100% gain to make it a sound investment. If It cost 80% for overhead (Which is insanely high for maintenance on a old fashioned piston steam engine.), a twenty percent guaranteed profit margin is good enough for me.

      COP 7 and I would be making 120% net profit. This would pique my interest.
      COP 8 and 220%

      COP 9 and 320%
      COP 10 would be an astounding 420% net return.

      It seems a little greedy set COP10 as the required threshold for interest, until you consider the COP is between 100 and 200 according to Rossi.
      COP 100 would be 9420% Net profit.
      COP 200 would be 19420% Net profit.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I’m afraid that the tax will raise with the net profit. You can’t change the laws of nature, but revenue law can be adapted quickly…

        • Ophelia Rump

          No Meters!

  • Omega Z

    Guru
    Heating oil is less the 6% of U.S. market & that is for about 1/3rd of the year. I have no Idea how much heating oil is used in the rest of the world.

    However the full picture isn’t clear. I believe most of the Propane used in the U.S. is derived from petroleum as a byproduct. But, Ultimately, it’s not that important at this time. It will take many years before LENR makes a major impact on crude oil.

    Even those investigating LENR cars are looking at a 20 year time frame. You’ll see electric cars charged by E-cats long before E-cat powered cars. It’s simply because of the nature of the technology at this time. Long start times conclude the need for 24/7 operation to be useful for an average of an hours use per day for most people. That’s a lot of heat to disperse. Likely well over a 100Kw in E-cat power. Batteries will still be needed. It would be simpler, easier & cheaper to just stick with an electric car hopefully with a fast charge 1000 mile range.

    Likely Scenario: Fossil fuels prices will drop initially.
    Because, Like many here, they will be uninformed just exactly how it will effect them. Once realizing it will be a decades long transition, prices will recover. Even Coal for the immediate future.

    Long term(20+ years out) energy prices will decline, but most of those prices are not set in stone today. Loses will be minimal.
    Even Hard assets-Most of the Power plants etc in the world are near end of life cycle. Many are in need of replacement. Whether replaced on site or replaced by smaller distributed systems, Losses will be minimal. Historically speaking, This is a good time for this technology to present itself. Disruption & losses will be minimized. All considered, you could conclude this technology is arriving just in time.

    • Doug Cutler

      Isn’t the price of oil and gas to large degree set by speculation on future profits? Won’t this be mostly removed in the advent of commercial grade CF?

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Not sure if an e-cat in a car would work, possibly it needs a stable environment and a car in motion is not exactly stable. I also seem to recall Rossi having doubts about an e-cat for automobiles

  • Christopher Calder

    I think the odds of a intentional scam are extremely low given the character of their scientists and staff. That leaves some kind of incredible measuring error made by at least three different independent companies, also a low probability. The malleability of the atom has been underestimated by mainstream science. Just because something is a new finding does not make it wrong. No sane scientists would try to have nuclear fission at room temperature. Solar Hydrogen Trends claim they discovered the process by accident and then perfected it. Their staff members do have a history in the gold and jewelery industry, so their story holds water. They were looking to find new ways to process gold bearing ore, and accidentally produced hydrogen gas in the process.

  • Bernie777

    My sons Tesla has a 325 mile range.

    • bkrharold

      Tesla looks very interesting but a bit too expensive for me. I hear they are working on a cheaper model with the same range. There is a German auto company with a novel battery technology called the nanoflowcell

      http://www.nanoflowcell.com/en#home

  • bachcole

    I notice that Anon doesn’t give his/her real handle. That is pretty cowardly even in this large anonymous forum. I am impressed by McDonough’s boost of IH, Rossi, and the E-Cat. Your putting McDonough down has rebounded back upon you, my friend, and you look like a joke to me.

    McDonough does not have to be perfect for me to be impressed by what he has to say. Even if he did not agree with me politically or with regard to AGW or any of a number of other issue, I would still be positively giddy about his endorsement. He is a responsible person whose word about this matter I take at face value.

    You, however, my friend, will have to apologize openly before I will ever believe ANYTHING that you have to say.

    • GreenWin

      FYI, the hatchet job in fast company is 7 years old and its author set out to skewer Bill’s reputation – like pathoskeps do with AR.

  • bachcole

    Nice post, Frank. It is very encouraging. Despite my rock solid conviction, it is still nice to get such a strong confirmation. I will tell my son.

  • PD

    The Brent crude oil price is currently down by USD 15.65 or 13.85% in one year (15.34 BST on 12 September). The market saw significant price falls in July and August, and the price has continued the downward trend this week. This is good news for the global economy and consumers if the price drop is permanent. The price of motoring fuel has fallen over the past few weeks in the United Kingdom.

    If the ITP report is genuine, and the result is positive in favour of Rossi (rather than the oil and energy companies), there will almost certainly be an immediate additional fall in the global oil price (perhaps another 10 – 20%). This trend will continue as the E-Cat begins to replace traditional energy sources. Some of the market sentiment for falling oil prices is around the increased production and export of shale gas in the US.

    I guess that there is plenty of scope for discussion and speculation what the TIP (either positive or negative) will do to oil prices.

    http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=IB.1:IEU

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Crude#mediaviewer/File:Crude_oil_prices_in_dollar_and_euro.png

    • Billy Jackson

      While the tendency to say this is just market fluctuation. I believe that it will be a while before oil is truly impacted by the E-cat or LENR. its going to take a long while to replace existing devices or adapt them. Until then i think we will see a small dip at the start.. but oil will come back for a while.

      • Omega Z

        Billy
        I agree 100%. Expect a dip then recovery in all fossil fuels once investors digest the reality & probable timeline. Eventually followed by a slow decline over a long period.

        Some Soft Evidence.
        What I & a few others have witnessed the last year or 2 is a large shift/shuffle dumping of long term reserve holdings 20 & 30 years out. If it were just BP, I would say it was all related to the Gulf spill.

        However, this shuffle has involved several western Big Oil concerns. Including Exxon & Dutch Shell. This fits a 20 odd year transition. And No Doubt, These reserves will eventual be needed & used, But, Who wants to have Billions tied up in reserves that will likely have far less value in today’s Dollar$.

        Another thing of notice. Siemens has dumped/bailed out of a major portion of their Solar investments & long term contracts to build solar farms. Who does that when the MSM & Government propaganda trumpets the fast decline of solar cell prices & vast future expansion to come. Who dumps a growth market.

        Now take this with a grain of salt, However Intelligent employees in a factory usually know much of whats happening before it becomes official. Things such as expanding or coming lay offs weeks & many times months ahead of time.

        Info passed to me from a close acquaintance. Works at Siemens building Turbine blades. There had been much talk at the plant to expand & increase production & employment up until just over a year ago. Then that talk all ended. Six months ago, they reduced production & layed some off. My acquaintance is very nervous about his job security. Again, The propaganda is growth with exponential growth to come. Who scales back in what is expected to be a vast growth market.

        There’s also a large reduction of interest in building Nuclear Plants & canceled contracts even tho the Government has anted up Huge subsidies in the Billions of dollars per plant. Many already had Many Million$ invested in pre build costs. Canceled.

        And Last but not Least.
        We see G.E. and Siemens, scrambling to buy up Turbine & Generator manufacturing companies so as to expand their business.

        And I Ask? Who invests vast sums of money(10’s of Billion$) in a supposedly to become declining market of Fossil Energy production.
        Turning their backs on highly subsidized Clean Green Energies for dirty fossil energy that Government is fully intent on applying Heavy Carbon Taxes on. A pricing forced decline in demand.

        Each taken by itself has little meaning, But All together, It all makes sense “ONLY” if they have a new power source to run these Turbines & Generators.

        • Billy Jackson

          You lay out a good plausible case. While the evidence is there from our perspective i hesitate to bite into it 100% and say absolutely due to the fact that we simply don’t know all the forces at play behind closed doors. I do not find it far fetched at all if your scenario plays out as you have described.

    • Christopher Calder

      If the Solar Hydrogen Trends hydrogen gas producing reactor is proven authentic in the next several months, then the world will be turned upside down. Rossi needs a COP of at least 10 to change the world. That may not happen yet. The Solar Hydrogen Trends device could be used for automobiles in a matter of months. It would take years to get a car running on a Hot-Cat. I believe there is a good chance the Solar Hydrogen Trends device does indeed work as promised, and that the Rossi device will show a COP of at least 6. When 60 Minutes reports it, the world will change. Without mainstream media help, nothing much will change. The current downturn in oil prices is likely caused by the fracking revolution and slow global economic growth.

      • artefact

        End of 2012 Rossi was allready at COP 11.7 . Without error deduction it was more a COP of 17 over a time of 328h. That were hotcats with no mouse included.
        http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/10/12/update-andrea-rossi-provides-corrected-pordenone-hot-cat-report/
        The scientits in the “pre test” ran the e-cat at a lower temperatur so the COP was less.
        If they run it hotter in the comming test I hope to see better results than before.

      • Omega Z

        With respect, No way in months.
        Aside from many other issues-
        Elon Musk is building a new batter manufacturing plant to the tune of $5 billion. By pulling out all the stops & using economic blackmail to cut through all the red tape, it will take most of 3 years to get this plant in operation & producing batteries by 2017. They HOPE.

        To follow, you need a distribution system. Years in the making.
        How to use it. Fuel cells(Expensive) or combustion. Conventional combustion engines do not deal well with hydrogen. Whether you use hydrogen or a mix of hydrogen/conventional fuel mix for enhanced mileage, It wreaks havoc upon the engines. Severely shortening life-cycle. Likely would require newly designed ceramic cylinders with an enhanced cooling system. Hydrogen burns much hotter then gasoline or diesel.

        Then there’s the safety issue. Think of a gasoline explosion on steroids. All these issues need addressed & the answers may create many inconveniences & trade offs that people will not like.

        If you want simple, Create a dipole magnet that makes perpetual magnetic generators feasible. But note even that will take a couple decades to transition to.
        20 years & still half the people in the world have no cell phone, Etc…
        100 years & only 1 in 7 have a car.
        Eons & half the people have no clean/safe water, Electricity, , ,

        • Fortyniner

          Problems with distribution and storage of H2 would be moot if the SHT device (if real) could be scaled to fit into a car, so only water would need to be carried. Fuel cells driving hub mounted motors would probably be the most efficient usage, although a turbine generator might also be feasible as the power source. As you say, either would take years to develop.

        • Christopher Calder

          They could put their suitcase sized reactor in the back of a van right now and run the van’s internal combustion engine on water (hydrogen gas) with huge amounts of hydrogen gas in surplus. All they need to do is downsize their reactor to something smaller than a toaster and put it in a car and run a fuel cell or one of many efficient internal combustion engines designs available. Hydrogen gas works in ordinary engines that have been slightly modified.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Folks,
    I see lots of similarity’s, between the to gentlemen, a passion for ,,,, well for life, and the constant, searching for knowledge, to help the human condition, thanks guys,

  • Barry8

    Looks like 10 cop is becoming a reality.

    • BroKeeper

      Any ratio under 1:10 (1/10) is considered insignificant and COP considered infinite for all practical purposes. I can only foresee it increasing from this point on.

      • bachcole

        BroKeeper, what did you just say? I don’t understand it.

        • BroKeeper

          A factor of one tenth difference in general applications are usually overlooked. 1KW input compared to 10KW out (COP 0f 10) would
          probably be disregarded by most as a cost factor for ten times the return benefit. Or in grand-daughter-talk: a little crying will provide much milk. 🙂

  • Freethinker

    It is significant that AR let us in on this.

    It would only happen if it was OK with IH and McDonough himself. I think McDonough being extrovert on this issue is posturing in lieu of the publication, and likely McDonough know the outcome will be positive and what comes next will make the involved people icons in the web of time.

    Incoming.
    Brace for impact.

    • jonnyb

      I suspect they know the report is positive as well, fantastic!!!

    • psi2u2

      Bracing….Who’s bringing the champagne.

    • BroKeeper

      With this integrity backing erases all if any existed doubts of E-Cat viability. I see positive overall results from now on with positive negatives for improvements.

      • bachcole

        Remember that some people will simply refuse to look through the telescope (of our knowledge about McDonough) and even if they do they will refuse to ascribe any meaning to the funny lights they see in the glass.

        • BroKeeper

          Sorry, I was speaking personally.

  • Jonnyb

    This is great news, any day?

  • jousterusa

    I hope you’re right about McDonough. That would be a great boost down the line for the whole project.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I wish I were a joke too, just like Bill McDonough. New businesses fly from his fingertips like snide remarks from internet trolls.

    When they say someone is a job creator, he is what they are talking about.

    Anon, whats your first name? Al?

    • psi2u2

      hahaha.

  • Chris Marshalk

    How much longer until the release of the report? Christmas is coming.

    • Ophelia Rump

      One or two months before publication.

      • Bernie777

        My prediction of 9/30 is looking a little shaky. (:

        • Ophelia Rump

          That would be the one month mark, possible but only if the publisher is highly motivated.
          The report was supposedly accepted by the publisher around the first of September, and it typically takes one or two months after that to publish.
          You are right in the middle of what I see as the probable date.

          So don’t be glum! B<} Bespectacaled.

  • gdaigle

    McDonough certainly seems to have manufactured his success primarily through a good PR agent.

  • Justin Church

    Well the H-Cat Hydrogen Heater ain’t nothing but the truth…

    • mecatfish

      Whats going on with that anyway? Havent heard anything for months.

      • Justin Church

        Yeah all of us put the tech on the back burner when spring and summer came. Fall is upon us and I just went over some new designs with the guys over at the H-Cat Forum. I’m very excited about the changes, too much to list, I will be open sourcing the information very soon.

  • Justin Church

    …GO GET’EM BOYS…

  • Christopher Calder

    William Mc Donough spoke of a COP of 10. Let’s hope he was referring to the latest Hot-Cat with mouse device.

  • Broncobet

    Exciting stuff. So Frank, you must be located in Europe to be at least five hours ahead of Nevada?

    • GordonDocherty

      Frank is at this day and night – 5 hours ahead probably means late nights / “real early” mornings 🙂

    • ecatworld

      No, I’m in the US