Rossi Confirms IH/Chinese R&D Operation

Earlier this year we reported about Tom Darden’s involvement in the opening of a Nickel-Hydrogen Research Center in the Tianjin Huayuan Industrial Park in Tianjin, China on April 16. We haven’t heard anything about this center since that time, but today Andrea Rossi made a statement which probably refers to this on the Journal of Nuclear Physics saying:

The US team is preparing with Chinese scientists an important R&D operation that will help the industrialization of our devices.

Being the Chief Scientist at Industrial Heat, Rossi will surely be involved in any projects involving R&D, and it’s interesting the decision was made to have a Chinese R&D connection when I would imagine there is plenty of engineering talent in the US, especially within the Research Triangle where Industrial Heat is headquartered.

Probably the Chinese connections have a lot to do with Tom Darden’s contacts and experience working in China — somewhere that Cherokee Investment Partners have done a lot of work. Perhaps, too, there are plans for E-Cat manufacturing operations in China. We have discussed here at length the severe pollution problems in China, and how China could be a natural market for rapid expansion of E-Cat products, especially if the government gets behind the technology.

  • Broncobet

    If that were true ,it isn’t , then why are all the displaced Japanese so eager to return to their homes?

  • Broncobet

    Why?

  • malkom700

    Thank you for your response, but you are wrong, you probably are not from Eastern Europe as I do. What happened in this case? Russian minority would not want to be separated from Western Europe, if their standard of living is constantly not lowering of the above reasons.

    • Broncobet

      No I’m not.

      • malkom700

        Yes, but not the Sudeten Germans began to rebel, since not had economic problems, that’s the fundamental difference.

  • Omega Z

    Bronco
    The “short on cash” wasn’t serious comment. Anyway, the numbers I’ve seen said $30 Billion, but that’s neither here nor there. The U.S. Government sends another $50 billion south thru various programs.

    Note by southern border, I include everything south to the tip of South America due to the porosity of all the borders. Those crossing the border aren’t just Mexican. It even includes a fair number of Asians. Everything else is MSM B.S.

    I am aware of the Mexican Oil situation. It’s in decline & most think it will be 10+ years before a turn around. The Hardware & people with the expertize are limited & it will be quite a while before it’s available to help expand Mexico’s oil fields.
    In Fact, They want the Keystone Pipeline completed & export rules relaxed so that they can keep their refineries going processing that crude oil until that happens.

    As to the immigration situation. Studies state that when the U.S hits a population of 350 Million, Standards of living will decline due to a lack of resources. We’ll be in China’s situation looking to buy up resources in other countries to make ends meet or maintain our standards.

    Sadly, There were those in the 60’s who seen this coming. They had a plan. Create an economic zone in part of Mexico. Raise the standard of living & repeat. Over 40 years or so you work your way all they way to the tip of South America. Each country would in turn help to continue the process. A Co-Op. They actually did get a couple zones designated but the plan was highjacked & used only to generate larger profits. Note the Plan allowed for additional profit as incentive to get Corporate America behind it, They just didn’t have penalties in place to make sure a portion of those profits filtered down to raise their standard of living. As in higher incomes.

    Corporations have a problem seeing beyond the next Quarters profits. Imagine the profits had they created a larger market among these countries had they accepted less profit in the short term.

    As to the U.S. Problems being of their own making. I Agree. To many politicians kick the can down the road. A Minor issue today becomes very painful down the road. And the payments are about to come due…

  • clovis ray

    Come on guy, you are not making good sense to me, have you not been keeping up, nuclear power is over. markets are changing the ones that won’t change will be lost. GE knows they just sold their appliance division, who would of thought it. this thing is bigger than just china, if china plays nice they will get a seat at the table, the controls the worlds currency, when you have the money, and the hammer things tend to go your way, and our way is not the best, but there is non better, believe it.

  • pelgrim108

    Answers from Andrea Rossi to the questions from Hank Mills
    September 9th, 2014 at 11:12 PM

    Are there any E-Cat reactors in China at this time?
    no

    As Chief Scientist, do you get to choose who is hired to head the Chinese research project?
    no

    Where will the funding for the Chinese research project originate?
    I am not involved in this

    Have you considered opening an E-Cat acadamy for when the tech starts entering the market in a big way? Those who enrolled could study theory, operation of reactors, construction, safety, etc. Then they could be certified to work E-Cat related jobs in manufacturing, maintenance, servicing, inspecting, etc. I’d be interested in enrolling.
    we are considering how to prepare certified operators: this is an important issue

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Won’t we need lithium in the future? Why waste it by burning it up in a hot fusion reactor now that we have LENR?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Broncobet, have you seen this interview with Dr. Eugene
    Mallove? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y98YwJ2GEE

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Perhaps Peter Hagelstein and Mitchell Swartz should move to better institutions like the universities of Missouri or Bologna where they would be appreciated.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Hi Broncobet, perhaps you didn’t see this one (the 2nd paragraph).
    http://e-catsite.com/2012/05/07/mit-physicist-nixes-cold-fusion-funding/

  • bachcole

    TomR, I believe that most of what we have seen is a neutral apathy based upon disbelieve. I don’t oppose the research of UFOs. I couldn’t care less about UFOs. But I am not resisting it. I haven’t called my congressman and told him to not fund it. But he hasn’t gotten a call from me asking him to fund it either. There may have been some active opposition, especially from maryyugo-retards, but probably most people haven’t even heard about it.

  • GreenWin

    Anon’s handle implies that a world changing “New Fire” was developed and brought to market in a mere TWO years?? This will further eviscerate the hot fusionists’ ego and must be corrected.

    • bachcole

      I have no problem eviscerating the hot fusionists’ egos.

  • Fortyniner

    Once a thing is known to be possible, replication is inevitable no matter how carefully the IP is guarded. IH and associates will have a limited window in which to make hay as the sole provider. I believe there will then probably be a period of corporate monopoly during which the technology spreads to other large companies, and after that, cold fusion will gradually become just another field of engineering and marketing shared by many players. Unfortunately for all of us, phases one and two could last for decades.

    • GreenWin

      What I find encouraging is the first one or two “former” utility companies adapting to the transition. Recent example of NRG and Vermont’s biggest utility, Green Mountain partnering on a variety of renewable products and services. This includes the Beacon 10 which we speculate to be a prime candidate for an E-Cat module.

      The cartel monopoly only works with centralized, big hardware generation. E-Cat is implicitly simple. Only the catalyst may require a ultra-high tech process which will be the domain of nano-materials specialists. IH can freely sell non-exclusive licenses to OEMs around the world, using an “E-Cat Inside” type co-branding scheme. Point is, once the public fully groks the meaning of this invention, specious legislation should be tantamount to “Football Permit” legislation — worthy of armed revolt.

      • Fortyniner

        From many indications it looks like the cartel people have already begun to move into distributed power and cogeneration, just as they have already moved into ‘renewables’ in order to suck up the huge subsidies that were on offer. Potentially ‘stranded’ assets will increasingly be dumped, or rather, may be hived off to the unwary (or uninformed) wherever possible.

        That would apply to nuclear generation in particular, and there is a certain irony in the fact that it is increasingly looking as if the Chinese have been selected as the ‘marks’ in this case, at least in the UK. As European consortia begin to shrink away from these massive investments (and potential financial black holes), and moves by the EU to force Cameron to slash the huge taxpayer-funded back door ‘incentives’ on offer are proceeding nicely, the Chinese state nuclear companies are increasingly being invited to take up the slack.

        If as seems likely, the reality of cold fusion becomes widely accepted before the end of the year, a lot of people in the nuclear game are going to be left holding some very, very expensive babies.

    • Fortyniner

      Read your reply GW, but it now seems to have disappeared! From many indications it looks like the cartel people have already begun to move into distributed power and cogeneration, just as they have already moved into ‘renewables’ in order to suck up the huge subsidies that were on offer. Potentially ‘stranded’ assets will increasingly be dumped, or rather, may be hived off to the unwary (or uninformed).

      That would apply to nuclear generation in particular, and there is a certain irony in the fact that it is increasingly looking as if the Chinese have been selected as the ‘marks’ in this case, at least in the UK. As European consortia begin to shrink away from these massive investments (and potential financial black holes), and moves to slash the huge taxpayer-funded back door ‘incentives’ on offer by the likes of Cameron are proceeding nicely, the Chinese state nuclear companies are increasingly being invited to take up the slack.

      If as seems likely, the reality of cold fusion becomes widely accepted before the end of the year, a lot of people in the nuclear game are going to be left holding some very, very expensive babies.

  • Karl

    A good move to go to China which may result in the final release the entire field of science and applications around Cold Fusion type of energy phenomena – without barriers.

  • clovis ray

    no one know how to build, e-cat reactors, and no one will, if IH has anything to do with it,

  • clovis ray

    one word, greed

  • Anon2012_2014

    How about the report.

    How long do we wait until it is “late”.

    • Ophelia Rump

      April 1, 2015

      • Anon2012_2014

        Putin may have annexed Sweden by then.

        Can we drag this out longer???

        • GreenWin

          You’re welcome to wallow in self-pity as long as you want.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Yes, if you insist!

          And I am certain that he will stop once he takes Estonia. It will be winter and he will rest for springtime. Europe is so lovely in the spring, when all the countries are falling.

          • malkom700

            Unequal energy resources obviously play a role in regional conflicts. The development of Ukrainian conflict is a good example. This is a serious responsibility for all. However, pollution perhaps is an even greater challenge.

        • Karl

          Starting the discussion here about threats. The question is who is coursing these threats. Former US military veterans it seems to have a clear idea where these threats is coming from.

          http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/09/06/americans-must-rise-in-revolt-over-us-governments-craziness-journalist/

          • Ophelia Rump

            To be a former US military veteran, you must be dead.
            But from this living one: That link does not speak for me.
            The author sleeps with Putin to spite Obama. This is treasonous.

            • Heath

              OR, I agree completely.

    • bachcole

      There is no “late”. It will get here when it is supposed to get here, or, rather, it is supposed to get here when it gets here, sort of like morning.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Enrico should be careful. The Chinese government sometimes arrests innocent foreigners and charges them with spying. It recently happened to a couple of innocent Canadians who ran a store there. What’s more, despite U.S. protests, they still sell stolen American movies on homemade DVDs on street corners and elsewhere and the vendors are seldom bothered by their police.

    China is a dictatorship. It is not a democratic society based on laws, like ours. Whatever is revealed to them in respect to Rossi’s invention they will .….. (Fill in the blank).

    • Ophelia Rump

      Your fear is so worldly.

    • http://www.drboblog.com Doctor Bob

      “like ours” – you mean America?

      I am of course European which means that I belong to the underdeveloped world where a person showing up with a coca cola is the center of attention at any party.

      We spend most of our lives dreaming of a life in a democratic society where healthcare costs money, people use a knife and a fork, where the government never spies on anyone and where Crack is being sold at every street corner instead of DVDs.

  • Omega Z

    Not Even in China.

  • pelgrim108

    Rossi’s friend Enrico Billi is doing research in China where he lives with his Chinese wife.

    Andrea Rossi — May 5th, 2014 at 4:56 PM
    Enrico Billi:
    Very interesting, you are always bearer of good stuff: your Physics Degree from the University of Bologna is working.
    Lavolale, lavolale!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    p.s.- for the Readers: Enrico Billi is a Physicist friend of mine and works in China, very hard; in Italy Chinese People pronouces “L” the “R”, so the Italian “lavorare” ( = to work) pronounced by a Chinese becomes ” Lavolale”: for this reason we joke saying always “lavolale, levolale” , to mean don’t lose your time, just work.

    • Fortyniner

      Explaining a joke is always a little embarrassing, but in this case, essential for non-Italian speakers!

  • Ophelia Rump

    A lot of the commentary seems to have gone off into free association. It might be nice to simply look at the statement and see what it has to say for itself.

    “The US team is preparing with Chinese scientists an important R&D operation that will help the industrialization of our devices.”

    Q: What top industrial implementations of LENR technology require large R&D before they can become industrial?
    _____________________
    Electrical generation
    Aerospace
    Automotive
    Marine engines
    Home solutions.

    • TomR

      I hope Home solutions start soon in China, it might wake a few people up in the USA.

  • Allan Shura

    A bit of topic but as for being patient for results testing, I am wondering how Al Smith is doing on the HHO on catalytic converter substrate testing for LENR effects. I have great respect for his methodology and did caution about the flash back arresters before the mishap. It has been a while as well with Sterling Allen and his test but I think Sterling`s test was too complex with some inference and assumption in his calculation of over unity. With a reported positive result his goal of a simple home air heater has been post-phoned. I do not want to be negative but no additional information on these efforts has been posted for a while either.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Hello Tsinghua University.
    Goodbye MIT.

    • GreenWin

      Alan, it’s unfortunately true that MIT and it’s co-defendant Cal-Tech have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot re LENR. IMO it all boils down to ego, pride and hubris. And wisdom teaches us that “pride goes before the fall.” Has America’s Ivory tech Tower become a school of Quackademia?

      • Alan DeAngelis
      • Alan DeAngelis

        Publish the E-Cat report in Mad (magazine).
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_%28magazine%29
        Seriously!
        Circulation 175,000-2,100,000
        Go with the flow. The world’s greatest discovery has been portrayed as a joke for a quarter of a century. So, bypass all the snobs and make the announcement
        (a straight as an arrow scientific paper) of the world’s greatest discovery in Mad. Rossi has achieved his goal, a safety certificate. Or was his goal to placate the know-it-alls?

        • HarryD

          One of best suggestions I’ve seen coming by!!
          I gave you a tumb up and hope many do to …

          ……and Frank, please turn this into a poll where people can vote in favour or agains MAD!!!
          I am all pro Rossi and LENR but I really find the whole introduction so clownesk that it aint’ funny anymore.
          Rossi could have their eCat that is aledgedly heating their factory/lab hall’s be a long running demo with fixed regged. and callibrated equipment with by swapping around by equally offered equipment could have delivered years ago the fact that it is working as advertized…. and seriously…. who would have bought a 1 MW plant that costs 1,5 million Euro and only produces only 120 degree C heat and consumes 1/6 th MW electric? Maybe better wait for the next version…… which I guess is coming…. and I guess it’s gonna make the wait worth while

          🙂

          • clovis ray

            Yeh, i know you guys are kidding, right ,harry, there is nothing allegedly, about it. it does creates huge amounts of heat, 120,degree, wrong again.
            I suggest you do a little home work, before making those kind of statments.

      • bachcole

        “co-defendant”, I like that.

        Part of the “problem” is that almost everyone, including many of us, equate high IQs with paradigm shifting nimbleness. The digital computer was invented at Iowa State University. The light bulb was invented by an elementary school drop-out. The airplane was invented by two bicycle mechanics. We all know that I could go on and on. It is not just that eggheads are bad people or that they have vested interests, which they do.

        Within an accepted paradigm, an egghead can kick a$$ and take names. But ask him to think outside the box, well, that is going to happen about as often as in does in the general population.

        My favorite example is Stephen Hawking. Obviously the man is brilliant. But even his dreadful disease is not enough to motivate him to look outside the paradigm of dependence upon doctors and mainstream medicine. If anyone ever had a reason to look outside of the box, it is Stephen Hawking. I am sure that if this thought were suggested to him the very first words coming out of his mouth would be “There is no proof that alternative medicine is of any value.” or words to that affect.

        • Andy Kumar

          “The digital computer was invented at Iowa State University. The light bulb was invented by an elementary school drop-out. The airplane was invented by two bicycle mechanics.”
          A journalist once asked Feynman if someone like Faraday could operate in today’s physics. Those days of intuitive tinkerers are long gone. You can not navigate the mathematical jungle that modern science has become without extensive training at places like MIT.
          Outsiders and wannabes resent it, but that is the way it is. Blithely mouthing off theories is easier to do than come up with something useful.

          • GreenWin

            Andrew, you must now be working with… (cough) staff writers, as your comment is a hapless and wrinkled provocateur. But it does adequately model the Psych 101 assignment to “Tug on Superman’s cape.”

        • GreenWin

          bachcole, I greatly respect Stephen Hawking because of his fortitude and perseverance. But, as with many theorists he has painted himself into a black corner re black holes and information “leakage.” Specifically Stephan has had to admit that information can leak from an event horizon, which pits GR against quantum “dynamics.” Now the media has to follow its Crisis Field Manual claiming, “Nothing to see here folks, move on!”

          http://www.space.com/24418-stephen-hawking-no-black-holes.html

          • bachcole

            I am ambivalent about Hawking. He was able to admit that he was mistaken about “information” leakage. That take integrity and courage. But he is too much of an egghead to see and do something about the elephant in the room of his life.

      • RogerKnights

        Academia nuts.

        • GreenWin

          LOL!

    • bachcole

      Alan, I was able to log into Disqus when I removed a bunch of cookies from my computer. There was something wrong with my operating system, and would have to remove cookies from the past 1 hour several times a day. I have updated my operating system and so I don’t have to worry about it any more.

  • mcloki

    Great shot across the bow to the American investment and scientific community. You’re acting too slow, too close minded, so funding of innovative products are leaving America. If the American Scientific community wants to know about the future they better start reading Chinese.

    • Heath

      Um, we know very little about how much any one has invested in this. You’re reading your bias into this report which is not helpful. Reread IH’s (an American consortium of investorscorporations as far as we know) press release and this China connection will make more sense.

      • clovis ray

        I agree, To turning your ip over to the Chinese , that is stupid, IH is not stupid, you can bet on it.

    • Omega Z

      “start reading Chinese” Why?

      English is a mandatory 2nd language in China.
      Starting at kindergarten level in the cities & 2nd grade level in the rule areas.
      Reasons Why?
      China has over 200 languages with hundreds of different dialects. This situation is not good for a Countries Unity, National Identity or developing a Modern Society. Mandarin is the enforced primary language(With Much Resistance I would Add).

      English as a required 2nd language is considered the International language of business. Resistance to learning English is very low. In fact many take much pride in learning English.

      In Chinese Factories/Business, English is the primary language spoken. You also wont find any 1 using their surnames of Zhang or Chan Etc,,. They use English names such as Bill, George or Cathy Etc. I almost said Sue. 🙂 Reference to a Johnny Cash song..

      Little known Fact. The Chinese people have very high regards for the U.S. They even have many memorials & statues around the country in honor of U.S. military units & personnel with annual recognition of them. The Issues are Political & both sides are to blame.

  • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

    Obvious, but worth explaining to outside readers: Industrial Heat moving ahead with joint E-Cat efforts with the Chinese is another almost inarguable piece of evidence that the E-Cat works as advertised.

    Industrial Heat being either complicit in a hoax or so dense that they and their teams of engineers have been fooled somehow for over a year despite daily testing of many reactors and intensive R&D are ideas worthy of ridicule.

    Of course we don’t have confirmation of this latest assertion by Rossi yet, but he hasn’t lied about these kinds of things in the past and it fits with information Industrial Heat has already officially released (and could easily refute if Rossi were wandering off the farm).

    • Heath

      Great point.

    • Fortyniner

      I’m reasonably sure from a digest of the evidence that we are some way past any consideration of a scam/hoax. The open questions relate to the performance of current e-cat prototypes, who the players are, and what their ‘launch’ strategy might look like.

      It seems we now have another small clue relating the second item above.

  • pelgrim108

    Here is an old article from januari 2014 http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/print-edition/2014/01/10/is-cherokee-plugging-into-chinas.html

    “…Darden says none of the entities referenced in the E-Cat World blogs
    have invested in Industrial Heat. “Nor does Industrial Heat have any
    Chinese investors,” he says….”

    • Fortyniner

      Thanks – an interesting reminder. If the second part of the statement can’t be relied on, then it may be time to revisit some earlier guesses made on this blog …

    • Omega Z

      That was a preliminary engagement. There was another meeting after that around March I think.

      Note: No Chinese investors. Again preliminary at that date.
      Note #2 Likely Chinese Americans, So no Chinese investors would still hold true.
      Many Chinese American Business people due much of their business in China. It’s partly a Tax thing & many have family ties of which they help financially directly or with jobs.

      Similar to Cuban Ex-patriots sent $3 Billion to family in Cuba last year. And the list goes on & on… $30 Billion went south of the U.S border last year. No wonder the U.S. is short on cash. It’s all being exported. This is all sanctioned by the U.S. Government!!!

  • bachcole

    Given that the Chinese hierarchy has already given up on the ideology of Communism, it would be natural for them to easily give up on the ideology of the dominant physics paradigm.

    Since article, Frank.

    • Fortyniner

      I suppose that a greater focus on the good of (Chinese) society – rather than the good of the individual – may make it easier to let go of old paradigms, if there is even a chance of group benefit.

      • clovis ray

        Don’t hold your breath, seeing is believing.

    • clovis ray

      oh yea, the Chinese have given up on communism, that a laugh. got a link to that statment.

      • bachcole

        They coddle private businesses and private businessmen. That does not mean that they aren’t still totalitarian and oppressive.

  • Christopher Calder

    China = faster development and deployment.

    • John Littlemist

      China = urgent need to replace polluting coal plants = no lobby against LENR

  • http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/ barty

    It’s nice to hear that china has now also the knowledge to do this. Also if the western bureaucracy will stop LENR if it’s proven, the chines will not stop using it at least for their huge industry.

  • Gerard McEk

    Interesting to know where’s the Interlectual Property Right will be filed China or the US.

    • GreenWin

      Good question. At this point Industrial Heat’s IP is protected in the West by Italian patent and EU/US patent applications in process. But IH and Rossi have for commercial reasons elected to utilize the protections afforded under Trade Secret law, e.g. the U.S. Uniformed Trade Secrets Act. In China Darden et al will have to rely on a more tenuous Anti-Unfair Competition Law. The theft of trade secrets in China is far greater than other countries and there is little recourse as Chinese courts are hazardous at best.

      More likely is for IH to set up a manufacturing center to build E-Cat component parts. These parts may represent 95% of a commercial E-Cat system (e.g. 1-50MW) yet lack the industrial secret. Component parts would be shipped to the U.S. for final assembly and addition of the proprietary catalyst modules. Here is an excellent article on trade secret application in China:
      http://www.chinabusinessreview.com/trade-secret-enforcement-in-china-options-and-obstacles/

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        I think that’s exactly what’s going on: China makes great sense as an inexpensive manufacturing center for a technology that’s going to require millions (billions?) of units.

        I admit though to being confused by the use of the term “R&D.” Does this mean it’s not manufacturing (or just manufacturing) but prototypes for vertical markets (with working reactors) or even basic research on the Rossi Effect? If so, IH should not expect their secret sauce to remain secret for much longer.

        I suppose they might figure that’s inevitable anyway and are trusting in their low cost/saturation strategy.

        • GreenWin

          More than likely the reference is to “manufacturing” R&D. IH may utilize Chinese engineering to build giga-factories able to mass produce E-Cats with efficient robotics and manual labor. Large-scale manufacturing would benefit greatly from this alignment.

          • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

            That’s how I rationalized it too, but I can’t help but wonder if that’s a bad assumption on my part. Maybe IH really is all-in with the Chinese. That scenario would suggest that they have met resistance in America… or possibly that they are playing America and China against each other to optimize their position.

            Or that TPTB in America feel the need is greatest and the resistance least in China and are steering IH in that direction as the easiest path to introducing and spreading the technology.

            • GreenWin

              Considering U.S. Navy’s contributions to LENR, it’s doubtful technology export law would allow IH or any U.S. entity to “give” China their IP. But healthy competition does stir the pot.

              • clovis ray

                correct, there is a lot of country’s that would like to have it, china will have to get in line with everyone else, the U.S. has control, you can believe. it.

            • Heath

              Look, we don’t know truly how far this has spread as far as IH and other nations. We knew about China previously from a leaked Icebank report and now the Rossi comment. This international R&D effort could be far more widespread. I think that the many on this site that are inferring that IH is going with the Chinese because the US is resistant or too slow are misguided. IH said specifically that it wants to use this technology to resolve chronic environmental problems and China is a great place to start as well as in the US (world’s largest polluter).

              • Fortyniner

                Great points GW, LENR G and Heath. I’m been sure for a long time that Chinese mass production capability would become involved in one way or another, but almost certainly without release of essential IP. Their massive automated factories are probably the only facilities on the planet capable of even partially meeting the potential demand for CF devices in less than a generation.

                In addition, even if there is only moderate resistance so far, Chinese involvement would make it clear to any opposition that ‘resistance is futile’. In other words, ‘This train it about to leave the station – with or without you’.

        • clovis ray

          china can reproduce, thing cheap, that’s about all, copy cats, that will copy the cat, then game over, for IH, and A.R.
          The U.S. can produce the same stuff for a comparative price, with the logistics to move it anywhere you want it delivered, china, can’t even deliver to their on people, if it rains for two days in a row the whole country shuts down , can’t drive heavy trucks on muddy roads, with washed out bridges ever three miles