‘We Do Not Have Safety Concerns’

Andrea Rossi made a comment today on the Journal of Nuclear physics which gives a little more information about the kinds of safety testing that the E-Cat has undergone during safety certification testing for the industrial plants. JONP reader Angel Blume suggested that the reactions taking place inside the E-Cat could produce radiation and thus be a safety issue; Rossi responded:

We do not have safety concerns, since safety certification has been obtained for our industrial E-Cat after the reactors have been properly designed and all the measurements made OUTSIDE the E-Cat have confirmed its safety also in terms of ionizing radiations. We have experts of the matter working with us, who are physicists from laboratories specialized in measurements of ionizing radiations.

I am assuming here that the physicists mentioned here are employed by certification agencies who have been involved in the safety testing on the industrial E-Cat. While it would be extremely interesting to be able to read the testing reports made by these physicists, these reports are apparently confidential, and only are made available to Industrial Heat’s customers (or potential customers), and even then, I expect they are covered by NDAs.

It’s interesting that Rossi emphasized that this testing was done OUTSIDE the reactor — it seeks likely that there are significant levels of radiation produced inside the E-Cat, but that for some reason does not escape from the reactor.

  • Paul

    Thank you, a very interesting doc! I agree that more information should be released by Rossi/IH, also regarding the gammas, the life is too precious to play with…

  • Omega Z

    When it’s on JONP, it usually equates to OOPs, I said to much…

  • Paul

    The potential danger of an E-cat is in neutrons emitted by some types of LENR and in strong magnetic fields at low frequencies. So, the fact that Rossi reassures us about gammas is not so relevant (they are quite easy to shield). If I were a customer, as a physicist I would take (spectral) measures about the neutron background and I would measure the magnetic fields. In absence, I would not consider an SGS certification or similar papers enough due to the potential danger.

  • Gerard McEk

    This is all about radiation which can be shielded. I have read that gamma rays have been detected on several occasions with LENR devices. I am not sure about the E-cat. Gamma’s are a bit more difficult to shield but as I recall, Rossi uses lead for it. I am not so concerned about this as well. For domestic use, runaway might be more of a problem (fire hazard). Time will tell if that really is a problem.

    • Ophelia Rump

      The melting point of lead is 327.5 °C (621.5 °F)

      Hot-Cats are supposed to be capable of approaching 1000 C.
      Wouldn’t encasing something in a shell of molten lead be impractical?

      • Gerard McEk

        I am sure that these measures will help and this will have been tested during a ruanaway. How do you know about these ceramic and steel measures Ophelia, I didn’t see anything about the construction of the industrial E-cat.

        • Omega Z

          Hot-Cat
          http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XuKgtxpqL9U/UYQSyPJP-OI/AAAAAAAAJYI/96mRUBJjs1w/s1600/hot-cat.JPG

          An old Rossi post from JONP Dec/2013

          During the destructive tests we arrived to reach temperatures in the range of 2,000 Celsius degrees, when the “mouse” excited too much the E-Cat, and it is gone out of control, in the sense that we have not been able to stop the raise of the temperature ( we arrived on purpose to that level, because we wanted to study this kind of situation). A nuclear Physicist, analyzing the registration of the data, has calculated that the increase of temperature ( from 1 000 Celsius to 2,000 Celsius in about 10 seconds), considering the surface that has increased of such temperature, has implied a power of 1 MW, while the Mouse had a mean power of 1.3 kW. Look at the photo you have given the link of, and imagine that the cylinder was cherry red, then in 10 seconds all the cylinder became white-blue, starting from the white dot, where is placed the charge, you see in the photo ( after 1 second) becoming totally white-blue in the following 9 seconds, and then an explosion and the ceramic inside ( which is a ceramic that melts at 2,000 Celsius) turned into a red, brilliant powder made of small stones, like rubys. When we opened the reactor, part of the AISI 310 SS steel was not molten, but sublimated and re-condensed in form of microscopic drops of steel.
          Warm Regards, A.R.
          —————————————–
          Obviously, at this temp, no lead shield, however, Tungsten was mentioned at 1 time on JONP by Rossi which can shield low levels of gamma. Incidentally, that post disappeared shortly after.

    • Ted-X

      It is interesting to note that welding using atomic hydrogen also produces some small amount of gamma radiation.

  • Omega Z

    As with all Rules & Regulations, Someone hired a wannabe comedian to write them.

    You end up with a Federal Reg that says to the effect, must be implemented using only material X-187-S under penalty of???
    You then find a State Reg that says you may use any material “Other Then” material X-187-S under penalty of???. You may then find other contradictions at the local level.

    Struggling thru bureaucratic red tape, you eventually find a work around acceptable to all & hope Nothing goes wrong. EVER.
    Because if something goes wrong, you are found in the wrong. Get ready for penalties & fines. And the bureaucrat that signed off on it. They usually get a 30 day “PAID” vacation, oops, I mean suspension. These people seldom lose their job unless they bad mouth the politician who appointed them.

    You may think I exaggerate, but I’m totally serious. Ask Elon Musk. He’s building a Battery Manufacturing Facility & Broke Ground in 2 different States for Bureaucratic leverage. Which ever State smooths the bureaucratic path gets the 1st Battery Plant. He took this route to ensure batteries are in production for 2017 verses 2018/19. This insurance cost him about 300 additional laborers working 24/7 for 6 weeks, Dozens of Dozer’s, Scrapers, Earth movers, & trucks etc.. Million$ just to prepare the extra work site.

    As to IH/Rossi E-cat Certifications. They can “NOT” be used for Sales promotion. However, the customer has a right to them.
    Ummm, If this doesn’t sound contradictory, what does. This sounds like a fine line that will ultimately be/is crossed.
    And In General, This information is not made public. However, if you know what Certification agency did the testing & all the pertinant’s, you can pull it up on their database. However, this is not easy. Any tiny detail can result in nothing found.

  • Ophelia Rump

    So outside agitators cannot publicly ask stupid questions which might cause them financial harm.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    August 30th, 2014 at 12:02 PM
    Eernie1:
    The work of the Third Independent Party is the first long term test made
    upon a LENR device in the last 25 years. The results will be the
    results that for the first time in the history of the LENR will be
    released by a third independent party after a test not of hours, but of
    thousands of hours, without interruptions and without intervention of
    the inventor or the owner. The results could be positive or negative, as
    I always said.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Billy Jackson

      yea.. after this.. and his past comments i am almost positive he’s read the report or has been briefed on it.

      • http://lenrftw.net LENR G

        Awhile be he told us of a sit-down he had with one or more of the TIP professors. He said they would not tell him the results but they did say directly that the reactor ran for the duration and the spare parts were not needed.

        I don’t know why they can’t loop in IH and Rossi completely at this point. Seems an unnecessary restriction post-experiment, pre-publication, but I guess they feel it wise to act with an abundance of caution.

  • georgehants

    Via Vortex with thanks –
    nasty uninformed joke: Highlights from 25 Years of Cold Fusion Research
    Alain Sepeda
    Sat, 30 Aug 2014 05:32:56 -0700
    ——–
    Physics Central
    Friday, August 29, 2014
    Highlights from 25 Years of Cold Fusion Research
    Back in 1989, Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann stunned
    the world by announcing a new form of fusion that could take place at
    nearly room temperature. That’s not particularly cold, but it’s much
    colder than the temperatures of the sun, fusion bombs, and most
    controllable fusion proposals. On March 23 in ’89, cold fusion was born.
    I still have a copy of the very first paper Pons and Fleischmann
    released. It had been faxed (yep faxed!) from lab to lab in universities
    across the US and around the world. Many technical details were
    omitted, presumably because the cold fusion pioneers were eager to turn
    the revolutionary discovery loose to make the world a better place.
    In honor of a quarter century cold fusion research, I’ve compiled the
    top ten advances in the field since that momentous spring day.
    Number 1. Ummmm . . . .
    Actually, there haven’t been any advances in cold fusion. Sorry.
    So here’s a picture of a bunny with a pancake on it’s head.
    http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2014/08/highlights-from-25-years-of-cold-fusion.html?showComment=1409401642196#c4573727547886427436

  • Ophelia Rump

    Is Mr. Rossi’s new fire safer than gasoline.
    __________________________________
    http://www.healthline.com/health/gasoline#Overview1

    “Gasoline is considered dangerous for your health because it is poisonous. Exposure to gas—either through physical contact or inhalation—can cause health problems. The effects of gasoline poisoning can harm every part of the body. It is important to practice and enforce safe gas handling to prevent poisoning.

    Inappropriate gasoline exposure warrants a call for emergency medical help. Call the poison control hotline at 1-800-222-1222 if you believe that you or someone you know is suffering from gas poisoning.”

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Oh Ophelia, you’re such a party pooper. Can we still sniff glue?

      • Ophelia Rump

        No! Have a brownie and sit quietly please.

  • georgehants

    Is Mr. Rossi’s Cold Fusion safer than Hot Fusion
    ———
    Asia & Pacific
    No One Wants You to Know How Bad Fukushima Might Still Be
    Although Caldicott says what separates Fukushima from Chernobyl is the
    continuous leakage of radioactive material, in her eyes they’re unified
    by an institutionalized effort to keep the veil from lifting. “The
    Japanese government took three months to tell the world that there had
    been three meltdowns, even though the meltdowns had taken place in the
    first three days,” she said. “They’re not testing the food routinely. In
    fact, they’re growing food in highly radioactive areas, and there are
    stories that the most radioactive food is being canned and sold to
    third-world countries.”
    https://news.vice.com/article/

    • GreenWin

      Times of London reports long range genetic mutations in plant and animal life around Fukushima…

      http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article4184168.ece

      • georgehants
        • Ophelia Rump

          The holographic theory gives me the jitters.

          By definition projecting something into nothing results in something, not nothing.

          How do you project into nothing? It does not exist, it is nothing.

          It requires a more complex thing to project any particular thing, so the theory only increases the complexity of all existence.

          The working projector is required to be something of immense complexity which requires it’s own creation. Would it not then be reasonable to ask what is projecting the projector? Asking this would logically put us on a rung of an infinite ladder of nested projections.

          The primary source of projections would be ultimate reality but it would require infinite complexity with an inherent purpose of creating less complex things, this is a theory which requires needless complexity when the less complex things could simply have been created in the first place, eliminating the need for infinite anything. Occam’s Razor anyone?

          If you had the ability to create an infinitely complex projector, it is absurd to think that you would need to run simulations.

          • georgehants

            Ophelia, we are Telepathic, I was just checking page as you replied, ha.
            Now, sit down and relax, forget about any current ideas of how our existence began and just imagine a “nothing”.
            Now everything you can imagine is something, empty space for example, etc.
            If you truly put your mind to nothing, then you could experience a strange tingeing as I do.
            How did something ever evolve from literally nothing? No good saying it has always been, no answer.
            That’s where all of our thinking starts from.
            And I think anybody’s ideas are as good as anybody else’s.
            No good saying god, where did he come from.
            Science has a very long way to go before it can ever say, we know.
            Science will find no answers in reductionist endeavors, I think.
            A little nearer may be Stanislav Grof etc.

            • Ophelia Rump

              Thank you, that was calming.

  • Daniel Maris

    Interesting glimpse.