Stanford Scientists Develop Water Splitter Powered by AAA Battery using Nickel and Iron Catalysts

This has received some attention around the web — thanks to US_Citizen for the following comments on another thread.

Scientists develop a water splitter that runs on an ordinary AAA battery

http://phys.org/news/2014-08-scientists-splitter-ordinary-aaa-battery.html

It uses nickel/nickel-oxide and iron catalysts, more evidence that nickel has some special properties when combined with hydrogen.

Its a 2 nanometer thick nickel coating on silicon. Lithium is added to the water for protection against corrosion.
Nickel in the nanometer scale… makes you wonder.

From the article:

“Using nickel and iron, which are cheap materials, we were able to make the electrocatalysts active enough to split water at room temperature with a single 1.5-volt battery,” said Hongjie Dai, a professor of chemistry at Stanford. “This is the first time anyone has used non-precious metal catalysts to split water at a voltage that low. It’s quite remarkable, because normally you need expensive metals, like platinum or iridium, to achieve that voltage . . . It’s been a constant pursuit for decades to make low-cost electrocatalysts with high activity and long durability,” Dai said. “When we found out that a nickel-based catalyst is as effective as platinum, it came as a complete surprise.”

As far as energy production goes, this is certainly not LENR, but a potentially much cheaper method for producing hydrogen. Hydrogen is discussed widely as a potential clean ad alternative to fossil fuels, but producing hydrogen requires energy input, and then there are storage and safety issues to deal with since hydrogen is both very light and combustible. Hydrogen-on-demand systems would be attractive because they obviate the need for storage of large amounts of hydrogen.

Fuel cell technology — where electricity is produced by combining hydrogen with oxygen to make electricity — is being developed as an alternative to battery, and Honda, Hyundai and Toyota are all developing electric cars using fuel cells to produce electricity. Of course we know that LENR uses hydrogen as an essential ingredient, but in such small amounts that the cost of hydrogen is probably not very significant in terms of overall costs.

  • Justin Church

    No problem at all. I’m glad Frank post articles like this too. LENR and Hydrogen go hand in hand. I’m currently working on an off grid solar hydrogen system. When I’m done with it, I really won’t need a LENR device to keep me warm or power my home. I have plenty of sunlight and wind here. With new electrode technologies like this one, we can have our own water fuel refineries in our back yard. I’m heavy in the study of LENR as well but we should all take a step back and appreciate news like this.

  • Justin Church

    If you study the art of electrolysis and go over the reports based on over 100 years of work you will find this to be a big deal. Why? Commercial electrolyzers run between 2 and 3 volts between anode and cathode. In perfect conditions you only need a little over 1 volt for electrolysis to occur. The higher the voltage potential between the electrodes the faster you will create Hydrogen and Oxygen gas. You will also create more gas for a given amount of time as well. The downside to this is you will lose efficiency as you step the voltage between anode and cathode up. Lots of studies show that while over voltage produces more gas and faster than the electrolyzers which are set to a lower voltage, they are also less efficient.

    If I tried to apply 1.5 volts between anode and cathode I would be really disappointed in the gas production. I have to take it up to 2-3 volts to really get any use out of it. Build a electrolyzer out of this type of Nickel/Iron catalyst and now you can drop the voltage down to get the same gas production as an electrolyzer that needs 2 or more volts to function. This means that we get even closer to 100 percent conversion of electricity to gas production. Making it very practical and cheap to produce Hydrogen and Oxygen gas on site using room temperature electrolysis. Right now, electrolysis still remains a expensive method for Hydrogen extraction due to the efficiency numbers. With this breakthrough, not anymore…

  • BroKeeper

    I believe they are. That’s why you and I see the best hope in AR’s E-Cat as the resolution to these physical delimas vs. changing our hearts which is reserved by only one true power.

  • georgehants

    bachcole, agreed but you are seemingly missing the point that people are psychologically effected by brainwashing from the PTB etc.
    You may have noticed that my point is always for people to “think for themselves” and not be taken in by this brain-washing, that leads simple scientists to debunk Cold Fusion etc, because their establishment does etc.

  • BroKeeper

    I appreciate your passion on GW as I once had, however there is more evidence CO2 is not the overwhelming cause for climate change. Nature itself will correct the imbalance to equilibrium through enhanced plant growth both on land and in the seas. Yes, there is a cause but no one yet knows for sure whether excessive CO2 is trapping accumulative heat. However, this said the black carbon particulates created from coal generated electric plants does have an effect not only on raising temperature average but affecting peoples health, and eventually most will fall to earth once it is stopped. No offense intended but in my opinion only it is overstated. Keep up the good fight, Bro.

  • pelgrim108

    Thanks for the link. I tried it, but it requires an acount to be made wich I will not do.

  • GreenWin

    You’re a good soldier Roger. :) Or should I say, angel.

  • georgehants

    Sterling Allan
    August 24th, 2014 at 10:56 PM
    LENR-to-Market Digest — August 22, 2014
    – It’s been 4.5 months since I compiled a digest. While I’ve not been
    able to be comprehensive this time, pulling from the many news sources, I
    was able to organize most all of the 120 E-CatWorld articles Frank
    posted, which gives an exciting overview of the burgeoning stage of
    development the industry is at. (PESN; August 22, 2014)
    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=853#comments

    • Ophelia Rump

      georgehants, I thought you would enjoy this. Also you might give me your opinion.

      I am not a conspiracy theorist and laugh when people talk about the illuminati, but what do you make of this. Paul Hellyer seems like such a kind and noble man. Is there some truth to this?

      Canadian Minister of Defense: We must overthrow the Illuminati
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6MyB74VoQ4

      • georgehants

        Ophelia, yes that is a well know report.
        If one does one’s own Research there are so many Wonderful things out there being hidden by the establishment etc.
        How can I say exactly what is Truth?
        Each one of us must do our own open-minded, competent Research, unlike the average scientist, to get as near to the Truth as one can.
        Cold Fusion, UFO’s, Telepathy etc. etc. you will find the solid Evidence is overwhelming, but dismissed by the establishment for their own reasons.
        But with scientists it is just plain brain-washed incompetence etc.
        Best

        • GreenWin

          Had this report attempted to appear in a U.S. territory it likely would have been received with derision, jokes, and references to “little green men.” To my knowledge no close “encounters” have reported green lifeforms. Unless of course skeptics take plants to be alien. Regardless, in spirit plants are people too.

          Disclosure: GreenWin loves plants.

      • Bernie777

        Rossi is from Mars, Storms is from Venus. (:

  • georgehants

    Today we have a report on something that changes climate and CO2, that has just been found.
    These things are all around us, but our Wonderful scientists manage to reach a “consensus” on GW with almost zero knowledge of what changes the climate.
    These comedians, like those holding back Cold Fusion etc. need a re-education to understand science principles.
    ——
    IBTimes
    Global Warming: Discovery of 500 Methane Vents On Atlantic Ocean Floor Has Major Implications.
    The discovery of the methane vents “highlights a really key area where
    we can test some of the more radical hypotheses about climate change,”
    John Kessler, a professor at the University of Rochester, who was not
    involved in the research, told The New York Times,
    adding that further “long-term studies” were needed to assess the link
    between climate change and the release of methane underwater.
    However, not all that is released reaches the surface. “The methane is
    dissolving into the ocean at depths of hundreds of metres and being
    oxidised to CO2,” Prof Adam Skarke from the Mississippi State University, who led the study, told BBC.
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/global-warming-discovery-500-methane-vents-atlantic-ocean-floor-has-major-implications-1462487
    http://www.ibtimes.com/hundreds-methane-vents-causing-widespread-leakage-discovered-along-us-atlantic-margin-1667802

    • BroKeeper

      Georgehants,

      The GW comedians have a great purpose in the allowed pre-determinacy. They add urgency dynamics within the equation by which the E-Cat fits the bill nicely in the minds of the GW propagandized brainwashed followers. This can only give an added boost for much needed near-infinite clean energy and economical equilibrium.

      Besides, when Cold Fusion is vastly predominating in energy production they will conclude their folly when it has little effect on positive climate change. So leave the GW comedians alone for the LENR/QUAR proliferation cause. :-)

      • georgehants

        BroKeeper, ha, a devious theory.

      • Bernie777

        BroKeeper: I am not a
        climate scientist. When 95% of climate scientists say that human activity
        is causing climate change, I have a tendency to believe them. If 95
        heart doctors tell me I have blocked arteries and I need a heart bypass, but
        five heart doctors tell me I do not need the bypass,
        any reasonable man would opt for the bypass.
        Now, substitute our planet for the heart above.
        Any reasonable man would opt for
        mitigating the problem, especially when there is increasing evidence
        of climate disruption. To be a denier and say it is all a
        grand conspiracy, is gambling on my grandkids quality of life. Deniers
        had better come up with solid proof; I have not seen that proof.

        • bachcole

          Bernie666, you didn’t look for the proof; you didn’t look at the most excellent presentation by Burt Rutan. ( http://burtrutan.com/downloads/EngrCritiqueCAGW-v4o3.pdf ) 99.99% of all physical scientists say that cold fusion is impossible. But I looked very closely at the evidence, and now I believe it. So much for consensus science.

          And most people could avoid heart bypass surgery if they lived and ate properly. And, in fact, most heart doctors are total ignoramuses when it comes to any therapy outside of their mainstream, mucho dollar generating bypass surgery. Even worse, they put-down any threat to their dollar stream as being quack medicine, saying that there is no scientific proof blah, blah, blah. Yesterday, while waiting for my wife to make a decision about work shoes, I tested my heart beat at 53. This is no big surprise for me; I always record a pulse below 55, and I have not done any exercise for months. I always go with the guy who has the results.

          So much for consensus science.

    • Bernie777

      It’s the cows fault, livestock makes up 51% of greenhouse gases causing climate change.

      http://timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2
      http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294

  • pelgrim108

    Convinience versus balance of power.

    • bachcole

      I don’t give a rat’s ass about any “balance of power” issues, whatever that means. I hate Facebook because it is complicated and illogical and doesn’t run smoothly and I never know where I am, and the worst part is people collecting “friends” as though this is anything other than a completely empty accomplishment. I do like the convenience; it allows me to spread my wisdom and knowledge faster and easier.

  • pelgrim108

    Can you supply a link that would work, since I dont have an acount.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I wonder how long it will be until we can buy electrodes made from that material online?
    It would revolutionize the HHO industry. They are plating carbon nano tubes. A little tricky but not impossible to garage manufacture.

  • georgehants

    Newsweek
    A Future Powered by Cold Fusion Draws a Little Closer
    By Roger Highfield
    http://www.newsweek.com/future-powered-cold-fusion-draws-little-closer-265611

    • builditnow

      Curious use of Cold Fusion in the title since the article is only about hot fusion and makes absolutely no reference to cold fusion.

      • georgehants

        Is this the start of the establishment muddying the waters against COLD FUSION.

        • GreenWin

          Clearly there is some scheming here. Testing the waters as to how the term will fly? Or plain disinfo to confuse the now certain positive report from TIP scientists. Hot fusion clowns claiming credit for the work of cold fusion mavericks. Pathetic.

          • Curbina

            In a simpler world it could be easier to blame the confusion on a lazy and careless reporter and editor. I’m not so sure about this one as Newsweek is a very mainstream publication. Even the hot fusion account was trying to defend the ITER, so I’d say this is a non so naive article.

    • GreenWin

      ?????????? Newsweek Editor Jim Impoco must have a death wish, a bag of cash, or some kind of neurological parasite. Nothing in this story is about cold fusion. It’s more like a paid advertisment for the world’s biggest science boondoggle, the 400% overbudget and 8 year-behind-schedule – ITER. The video at the end pitches what seems like an HHO range extender. WTF?

      Also note there is no discussion of the “T” in the mention of a D-T fuel to make these alternative fusion gadgets work. The T is of course Tritium – which empowers nuke weapons. A catchy headline with no substance. Softening the sheeple to eventual REAL CF?? Dunno. Don’t care. Off to the beach…

    • bachcole

      Why didn’t you guys ( georgehants, GreenWin, builditnow, et. al.) leave a comment. I want you guys to go back and leave a comment. The compassionate thing to do is to let Roger Highfield know that his professional career as a journalist is coming to an end soon.

      • pelgrim108

        I wanted to comment but then saw the Facebook thing. I dont have a Facebook acount and I never will have one.

        • GreenWin

          Heh heh, scared d’Ecat. How is high is Roger’s field??

          • pelgrim108

            His field may be high but its pretty barren of comments.
            Anyway, we have the high ground ☺

      • georgehants

        Roger, fully agree but this site is enough for me usually.
        Remember that there are millions of scientists out there that one would think would be commenting everywhere on the censoring etc. regarding Cold Fusion and many other subjects.
        You me and others try to do our best here to show the problems and because no official comic will cover these subjects, ECW is one of the only places in the World where Cold Fusion etc, can be studied by all of science and the public.
        One would think many scientists would go crazy and rebel against being kept in the dark and manipulated by their establishment, but most just cower in a corner and hide somewhere I think.

        • bachcole

          I don’t think that any official policy or establishment is keeping people way from checking out the evidence of cold fusion. I think that it is groupthink and group anxiety. People are afraid of castigation and losing their funding and reputations.

          • georgehants

            Dear Roger, who do you think it is that creates the “group-think” in the first place, if not the establishment, meaning the official science comics, the media, academia, etc. etc.
            All controlled and politicized by the rich and powerful.

    • pelgrim108

      They changed the title. Its now:

      A Future Powered by Fusion Draws a Little Closer.
      They did away with the word “cold”.

      • Fortyniner

        I don’t know if the article itself has been changed (“Filed: 8/24/14 at 6:32 PM | Updated: 8/24/14 at 11:54 PM”, but it is now entirely about ‘hot’ plasma fusion, so the current title is appropriate.

        • Omega Z

          Again: Updated: 8/26/14 at 7:51 AM

    • bkrharold

      So according to the article, by 2040 after wasting more $billions of taxpayer money, we “might” reach the break even point for hot fusion with a cop of 1. Meanwhile Rossi is routinely getting COP 6 or more, and it has not cost anywhere near that amount.

  • US_Citizen71

    Here is a link to a preview of the paper they published, it is behind a pay wall. Since I do not have the training in the right disciplines to fully comprehend the paper I have not viewed the full paper: http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ncomms5695?utm_campaign=readcube_access&utm_source=nature.com&utm_medium=purchase_option&utm_content=button_version

    They published some supplementary information here including a video of the beaker bubbling:http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140822/ncomms5695/full/ncomms5695.html#supplementary-information

  • Fortyniner

    The claim seems to be simply that electrolysis becomes possible at a lower voltage than previously possible. But voltage is not a problem – applied voltages can be increased or decreased in many ways. The question is, what is the efficiency of the new process? A few data points of this kind would have been nice.

    • US_Citizen71

      The claim is definitely electrolysis but with less input energy than is normally needed and cheaper longer lasting electrodes that function as catalysts to the reaction. The secondary article pelgrim posted appears to be from the same team at Stanford and appears to be another use for the nickel catalyst electrode. The solar powered version while interesting fails the KISS principle in my opinion and will likely come in to use much later. The device and technology in the article is simple and could be used to modify current hydrogen production means to increase efficiency and lower cost of production. I don’t see this device solving the world’s energy needs alone, but if used along with solar,wind, tide, ECats, etc.. I believe it will help. Beyond providing fuel for rockets during the first 50 miles or so of their journey from the Earth’s surface, I see this tech providing a means of energy storage. The ECat will be a base power provider no matter if it is thermal or electrical power that it provides. The ECat simply doesn’t increase power output fast enough to tackle the ever changing demand of the grid. Using a technology like the one in this article to store energy from the energy made by ECat, solar, wind, etc… will be needed. Fuel cells or even turbines spun by burning hydrogen will be able to ramp up power more quickly than a ECat would. The world will not be powered by a single type of energy tech but by many for years to come.

      • pelgrim108

        Yes you are wright US-Citizen71. I was refering to another invention from the same team without knowing it. Sorry for the confusion. I will edit my previous comments to stop further confusion.

      • Allan Shura

        At the coal power plants the increase in power is done by adding more fuel and or activating additional boilers not being used. The increase in power output is not immediate either so it the e-cat replaces coal in these existing boilers then that aspect would not be much different.

  • Bernie777
    • Fortyniner

      A glimpse behind the scenery. Most of these connections were been discussed on this blog some time ago (http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/04/21/the-industrial-heat-web-of-connections-includes-ge-others/ http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/27/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/ etc.)

      The Coldfusion article omits the following ‘connections’ (copied from the thread at the 2nd link above):

      “Power Generation Services Inc. – PGSI. CEO Jim Szyperski is listed by Cherokee as an ‘advisor’. Elizabeth Darden has had a senior position (Operations Coordinator) with this company since shortly after the formation of Industrial Heat, despite having no apparent qualifications for such a job (she was previously a teaching assistant).”

      “RTI International (rti.org) – Tom Darden is a director. “We support a wide variety of philanthropic programs as well as efforts that promote science, education, and environmental sustainability.”. This organisation would fit well with some of Rossi’s references to a philanthropic ‘partner’. RTI currently have contracts with the National Energy Technology Laboratory, the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy of the U.S. Department of Energy, and the Department of Defense.”

      • Bernie777

        Just reinforces by opinion there is a big player lurking behind IH pulling the strings.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    I’ve maintained science is progressing so rapidly (a la internet) that splitting water might become a quick breakthrough technology and for every company openly discussing LENR there are a dozen openly researching splitting water.

    So what if we still need to add water to our vehicles (even boats, cough) every thousand miles?

    The internet was mostly introduced to society with windows 95 and the majority of the world did not go online until a decade later. This means we have only had open access to data and information for about a decade, and online videos have arisen which provide us even more information.

    It was not so long ago if you wanted to hear about Splitting Hydrogen you would need to attend your local library and hope they have a book about it and could order one to your local branch. Even then you would be forced to agree with the various authors who only present their version of facts. If you read a book on Egypt you would be told the pyramids were built by slaves even though we know that now to be a falsehood.

    Contravening opinions and Breakthrough technologies like the ones we have shown an interest in here would not be published by most publishers as they made more money from popular opinion topics.

    So now science has a lot more freedom. Garage mechanics can replicate University experiments at home, and publish their findings in simple online videos. It is a marvel.

    Technology has no choice but to move at ten times (or greater) the pace.

    We have all heard about Blacklight Power/Mills, but he started his fundraising in a day when printed media reigned supreme. The demonstrations they put forth now would not have even been a consideration 25 years ago. The film would need to be developed in a photo lab, edited and shipped to interested parties via mail.

    Splitting water is such a topic where we only have seen a surface of the research, but already there are hydrogen buses and cars in operation. There are safe methods of hydrogen storage and transport now. These types of things are making headway daily.

    Hydrogen is green/smog free. Another advantage it would have is it could run the internal combustion engines of today without too much modification. A steam car would require a dozen years of prototypes before a market ready model would be practical, If steam power becomes practical in cars I think we would see variations convert to electric motors long before we saw a steam driven powertrain.

    This is exciting. A month back this website discussed a process of splitting ammonia. There are many fronts of this research and we are about due for a scientific breakthrough.

    I am hoping for something simple and open source so we can all build our own without reprisals, and competition can thrive.

  • Christopher Calder

    This is an interesting development. The water crushing-smashing-transmuting technology claimed by Solar Hydrogen Trends seems to be far more significant and efficient, …if true. The two technologies are certainly partially related in some way on the atomic level. I suspect nickel powder and iron are also used in the Solar Hydrogen Trends reactor.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Wait, what?
      What is the relationship?
      If one or the other is a fraud, do you do the other a favor by tying them both to the same fate?

      If you devour the world in one bite, you will surely choke upon it.

      • Christopher Calder

        I suspect both are authentic devices. The Stanford device is an efficient device to separate oxygen from hydrogen. The Solar Hydrogen Trends device claims to do that plus break apart oxygen atoms into multiple hydrogen atoms. They are very different devices and accomplish different tasks, but both seem to benefit from the lattice structure of nickel.

        • Ophelia Rump

          The Stanford device is a very modest but breakthrough claim.

          The SHT device is an insanely outrageous claim. That is not to say that it is false, but in the history of insanely outrageous claims, most have been false.
          Extreme claims require extreme proofs. If they have something real, they can sell the gas as a worst case scenario, and they will eventually gain credibility. If they are real, they are cursed by being too successful to have any credibility at all. Add to that the attempt to pass off simple flow metrics as validation and warning alarms should be going off in your head.

          • Christopher Calder

            This is the year 2014, not 1980. Expect insane breakthroughs in science. We have reached a critical mass of information that is creating disruptive, game changing inventions in almost all fields of technology, from computers, to robotics, to energy production, to space drive technology.

            • GreenWin

              More likely the inventions have been with us but not on mainstage or off-Broadway for that matter. Some are now getting a second shot. Others like CF have achieved critical mass despite resistance. Should make for great fun. Swiss S3 Space Systems has announced zeroG weightless flights from 15 different locations next year! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psFF3MWsGOM

            • Ophelia Rump

              Don’t drink the propaganda kool-aid.

      • Charles

        ” I have been reading these things for 50 years and I am still waiting for one of them, just one, to come to fruition.”

        I have been reading these things for 70 years and I am still waiting for one of them, just one, to come to fruition. Popular Science had the hydrogen economy just around the corner in the late 1940s if my faulty memory serves me correctly.

        • GreenWin

          Charles, it may have been the April, 1947 PopSci cover. Though the Hindenberg ten years earlier likely prevented a rush to hydrogen. You can peruse covers here: http://www.replayphotos.com/popularsciencephotostore/covers-1940s-print/-_543721.cfm

          • Charles

            Sounds about right. Thanks a lot GreenWin. I was 17, almost 18, at the time. I can’t even guess how many times I have read about hydrogen being right around the corner.

            I’m looking forward to the Andrea Rossi version of hydrogen and nickel. If that one pans out the world is in good shape.

  • pelgrim108

    Its an article from the Stanford news service november 2013
    http://news.stanford.edu/pr/2013/pr-nickel-water-splitter-111213.html
    The paper was published in Science november 2013

    … the Dai team applied a 2-nanometer-thick layer of nickel onto a
    silicon electrode, paired it with another electrode and placed both in a
    solution of water and potassium borate. When light and electricity were
    applied, the electrodes began splitting the water into oxygen and
    hydrogen, a process that continued for about 24 hours with no sign of
    corrosion.

    To improve performance, the researchers mixed lithium into the
    water-based solution. “Remarkably, adding lithium imparted superior
    stability to the electrodes,” Kenney said. “They generated hydrogen and
    oxygen continuously for 80 hours – more than three days – with no sign
    of surface corrosion.”

    • pelgrim108

      Light plus electricity from the battery is powering the splitting of water.

      • Fortyniner

        A much more informative article than the ‘lead’ story. Boron hydride and lithium borohydride are both very active reversible hydride donors, and lithium borohydride in particular is being researched as a hydrogen storage medium. These compounds are probably formed in the electrolyte, following uptake of nascent H.

        Possibly the near instantaneous adsorption of nascent H facilitates the formation of more H by reducing potential electrochemical opposition to this process. The current flow and/or heating effects may then release the bound H rapidly, but away from the actives nickel sites on the cathode. Of course there is also the possibility that H is being adsorbed into the nickel, so that LENR energy gain processes become a possibility.

        Still no efficiency data though.

        • GreenWin

          Years ago I looked into proposals to use NaBH4 for H2 storage. There were always issues with slurry. And guess who’s doing R&D in this sector? Stanford. http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/hydrogen_workshop/Wu.pdf

          Not much to see here. Except MS academics seem intent on making incremental announcements that might prop up Shell’s master plan to convert their gasoline stations into H2-gas stations.

          • US_Citizen71

            This technology combined with an ECat power source could make Shell’s dreams come true. Hydrogen could be generated continuously at their stations. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with that. Any energy tech that can cheaply provide the energy we need with out poisoning ourselves or causing damage to the world at large (by this I mean the end of strip mining, fracking, etc..) is a good thing even if promoted by those that have up to now been making their living providing energy by more harmful means.

            • GreenWin

              US – I agree. However, old fossil companies will have to dramatically restructure to make the economics work. They are going to compete with $.01/kWh electricity available at home or free at malls and offices. H2 is hard to manage and extremely volatile. I would prefer my family transportation be simple Li-Ion or next gen air-metal batteries – from a safety perspective.

              Remember the Hindenburg…

              • US_Citizen71

                I was hoping that they were not planing to make the storage tanks out of thermite, like the Hindenburg! : )

                But seriously there have been hydrogen powered forklifts in use for more than a decade to get by OSHA style safety regulation they already have engineered the storage tanks good enough. The scare is no different and actually less dangerous than CNG powered vehicles and we allow consumers to fuel their of vehicles now with CNG, even at home. A hydrogen leak has a much smaller chance of building up than a natural gas leak just due to its density.

                • GreenWin

                  All good points. My barbeques are fueled by propane (though mesquite charcoal flavors better) and accidents are few. Still, oilcos are going to have to compete against near-too-cheap-to-meter electricity. I am not sure how the capital cost of electrolyzer, compressors, safety equipment and overhead at an H2 station can be justified without charging $4-5/gal equiv. DOE estimates $50/H2 fillup – compared to $10/charge for EVs. Additionally FC stacks are prone to poisoning & maintenance issues. EVs are a battery, a motor. Simple.

                • US_Citizen71

                  I’m a believer in electric powered vehicles I am just not convinced battery tech can be scaled cheaply to the level needed to provide transportation as we now use it. We are talking exponentially more lithium needing to be extracted and refined, when compared with today, for any type of Li Ion battery to be adopted for worldwide transportation use. There are other battery types as well but none that match Li Ion for cost/power density currently.

                • GreenWin

                  Lithium is 100% recyclable. But recyclers need to improve their processing methods to stay competitive. The Tesla/Panasonic Megafactories will produce massive volume of batteries. By the time (10-20 years) the light transport fleet has converted to EV, new chemistry or some kind of LENR will likely be in play. I’m not concerned with these surmountable issues. Thanks very much for the dialog US.

                • Ophelia Rump

                  Give it time and there will either be electric on demand or hydrogen on demand or both if either one or both technologies materializes.

                • GreenWin

                  Looking at the stats, I’ll take EV with Li-Ion over fossil or electrolyzed H2 any day. Hey, it 5X cheaper too!