To the E-Cat Testing Team (Guest Post)

The following guest post has been submitted by Hank Mills.

Dear Testing Team,

For many months you have had unlimited access to three E-Cat reactors. From Andrea Rossi’s comments, I have been led to believe that you have full permission to do whatever you want with these devices: test them in any manner you choose, observe the reactions in any way you choose, and study the powder or fuel with any equipment you choose. It seems you have an opportunity to study the Energy Catalyzer in amazing detail. In fact, Dr. Rossi has stated that if you were able to build an E-Cat on your own and test it successfully, you would be allowed to publish all the instructions in the report.

In addition to performing calorimetry to determine if excess heat is produced, I hope you have attempted to acquire enough information about the fuel to allow for third parties, including your group, to replicate. I hope during the time you have had that you have performed every type of test possible on the fuel to determine its composition, isotopic ratio, hydrogenation, particle size, and surface features. Such information would be invaluable in allowing other teams to build E-Cat devices, test them, and producing commensurate test results.

Replication is critical to the scientific method. Already, the E-Cat has been proven to work beyond reasonable doubt. However, until dozens of teams around the world are able to access the ‘recipe’ for an E-Cat, build one themselves, and obtain positive results there will still be overly skeptical individuals who will doubt your report.

I would urge you to include a section in the report with all the information you have obtained that would be useful in building an E-Cat. So far, after several years of this saga, no one has been able to build a nickel-hydrogen reactor that has produced more than a few tens of watts. For this to change, there needs to be a source of information that scientists can use while they plan their replication attempts. Your paper could be that reference. The report that will soon be released could be the spark that starts a series of thousands of replications across the globe. It’s very possible your report could have a legacy of being one of the most important publications in history.

All of this depends, in my opinion, on the information contained in the report. Since Andrea Rossi has said you have full permission to obtain and share all information you have gathered about the E-Cat, I urge you to take advantage of the situation. For the good of the planet, we need this technology to be accepted as real by the mainstream scientific community and proliferate widely and quickly. In a world where inferior energy technologies such as solar and wind receive billions of dollars in funding, a viable LENR technology like the E-Cat would be a game changer.

The E-Cat offers the world an ideal source of power. It has none of the drawbacks of fossil fuels or conventional nuclear power, no reliance on weather conditions, and no harm to the environment. It is simply a technology that should exist in the realms of science fiction, not in real life. The truth is, however, it does exist. I consider it an Easter Egg in the fabric of reality. If any information should be spread far and wide, it should be how to construct and produce an E-Cat reactor.

In the past I would have been more defensive about a third party giving away secrets or proprietary information that might belong to Andrea Rossi. But it now seems that he has given your team permission to share anything you discover about the E-Cat to the world. I believe you have a duty to make the most out of this opportunity. If you do not, I believe you will be doing a disservice to humanity.

Please use your report to inform the world about how to replicate this paradigm shifting technology. With billions of people to provide for, a planet being damaged by pollution, and economy starving for a cheap source of power, there is no time to waste.

Hank Mills

  • Wayne M.

    I don’t understand why posters to this site keep bashing “mainstream” scientists.

    If you are looking to blame someone for not accepting Dr. Rossi’s e-cat as real, you have to look no farther than Dr. Rossi himself. The doctor is the first person to demonstrate a working LENR device that has a COP outside of perceived experimental error. Rightly or wrongly Dr. Rossi refuses to share “How he did it”.

    Thank ‘God’ for mainstream scientists who believe in the scientific method and don’t waver from it for, the flavor of the day, anecdotal evidence. Those that criticize them should look around themselves. Scientists gave us the technology that keeps you alive and comfortable. They created the infrastructure that allows 6 billion people to exist. Transportation, energy, medicine, housing, communication.

    Dr. Rossi is also a “mainstream” scientist.

    He used, and continues to use, the scientific method to invent, develop, control, and improve the e-cat. He now has a device that soon will be added to the list of great scientific inventions. Dr. Rossi’s did not work alone; as is said, all scientists work “On the Shoulders of Giants”.

    There is only one scientific method. Keep it safe. Those that bash “mainstream” scientists fly people into buildings. Mainstream scientists fly people to the moon.

    • GreenWin

      Wayne, had you done some research of your own you would have a clear understanding of why many here hold the science orthodoxy responsible for retarded LENR progress. It has nothing to do with Dr. Rossi, as the biased behavior of mainstream science began the day Pons and Fleischmann made their announcement in 1989,

      To assist your exercise of the scientific method, start here with MIT graduate and insider, Charles Beaudet’s excellent book, “Excess Heat, Why Cold Fusion Research Prevailed.”
      http://amzn.to/1l3ffpp

      Then read Dr. Eugene Mallove’s (MIT ScD) and former Chief Science Writer, Director MIT’s New Office: MIT And Cold Fusion: A Special Report This document contains evidence of outright scientific fraud at MIT.
      http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

      This report will be fundamental in the U.S. Congressional Hearings that will follow the public disclosure of LENR’s success. The Congress will demand mainstream scientists to explain why they colluded to prevent positive evidence from dozens of laboratories to fund CF research. This same or a separate investigation will expose the corruption in mainstream science that has continued to finance hot fusion for 62 years at a global taxpayer cost of $250B will essentially no energy benefit to the taxpayers.

      Your last paragraph explains your xenophobic bias. A bias that has no place in the scientific method.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Many seem to have confused science with politics and funding issues.
      The underlying hot point in sentiment seems to be about global warming.
      Which keeps coming up. Rather than picking sides among the ranks of scientists, this deep underlying distrust leads people to rationalize away the role as a scientist of those whose work they endorse, while condemning science in general.

      Politics and the media have caused severe psychic trauma which is blocking rational judgement.

      • georgehants

        Agreed but trying to pass the blame of the total incompetence and even corruption, easily shown in many scientific subjects on to others, just makes more scientists look more ridiculous than they already do.
        May I suggest a few apologies, condemnations and removals of the the non-scientific rabble that are turning science, understandably, into a comical joke.
        May I suggest it is time for good scientists to raise their voices and stop trying to defend these wasters.
        What is your analysis regarding the handling of Cold Fusion for 25 years by main-line science?
        What is your analysis on main-line science today when regardless of the Evidence no funds or manpower is being officially put into Cold Fusion, while these clowns spend billions sending toy trucks to Mars etc. that can do nothing but take pretty pictures to fill up the ridiculous science comics, work that could equally be done by a group of 14 year old students?

        • GreenWin

          George, I’m not sure that OR has fully digested the ego-driven behavior of senior scientists with respect to cold fusion. To be generous, the “high priests” of science respond as they have for centuries to perceived threats to their orthodoxy- with a kind of malicious hysteria. Dr. Hagelstein’s most recent encounter with a “famous MIT scientist” personally subverting independent funding for his research is case in point.

          It will be very hard for the public and politicians alike to rationalize corrupt behavior of those revered by academia and its lap dog media. But only by facing our demons, (and the politics that fuel them) can we expect to learn and grow.

          • georgehants

            GreenWin, that is why I have offered for any scientist of any qualification, the higher the better, to debate with me the total inability of a scientist to go against their programing and do real science.
            That is, look at and respond to Evidence alone.
            It will be interesting how many of those scientists who read these pages and blindly dismiss the criticism against them are willing to come out of the dark and try their luck.

            • GreenWin

              Indeed. To be fair, however, we should sympathize with academics who are brow beaten to study between narrowly drawn lines of “approved science.” Many have families to support which is why dogma remains unchallenged. Until the few courageous like Robert Duncan, Peter Hagelstein, Mike McKubre, Ed Storms etc. step up to follow the evidence.

              This all makes for a paradigm best summed in Rupert Sheldrake’s excellent book, “The Science Delusion” – a direct challenge to orthodox spokesman, Richard Dawkins (who seems to have stepped in something malodorous lately.) :)

              • georgehants

                GreenWin, I agree and have heard this very relevant point many times.
                How far does one allow such arguments of self-survival to justify such crimes against humanity, as the allowing of millions to suffer by neglecting Cold Fusion, just because scientists do not have the balls to put their own house in order.
                Certain events involving the Jews in the middle of the last century comes to mind.
                I can say very little about Dawkins than, ha, ha, ha.

                • GreenWin

                  BTW, should some wayward scientist agree to your debate challenge, I might bid on the video rights. Possibly offer to moderate. Should be good fun and the video would make a fine addition to the web site of The Royal Society of London!

                • georgehants

                  Ha, the Royal society has never been the same since Lord Kelvin said that they where at the end of science in 1900.
                  Unfortunately there are many blind reductionist followers that believe the same today.
                  I claim 30% royalties.

                • GreenWin

                  Fair enough.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Either you are much closer to something and therefore much more aware, or you watch FOX news. Who am I to judge.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Georgehants, P&F suffered nothing less than treason against science at the hands of the anointed. Cold Fusion was murdered in it’s crib the day of it’s premature birth by the high priests of its faith.

          We have many houses in need of deep cleaning, science, media, politics, law enforcement, law itself. The distribution of wealth is such that we will soon have war in our streets. In our life times there will be a single winner of the capitalism game who owns the entire planet.
          Meanwhile we have everyone else on the planet headed toward obsolescence and disenfranchisement from society.

          There are factions on this plant which wish to “Drown us in our own blood” running around beheading people. Putin wishes to march across his neighboring countries and I would not be surprised if he tried to do a march across Europe if he were allowed to continue. Ebola is running rampant across Africa. Last week ten deaths a day this week one hundred.

          America the liberator, land of the brave and home of the free is now best recognized by the phrase “Death from above!”

          The question: What does Syria and the US have in common is best answered by saying, both have factions wishing to return women to the status of chattel, setting the clock back on human rights to a point somewhere in the dark ages.

          I do not think a ‘PURGE’ is in order. We need sanity, values, people who speak up on a point by point basis, we do need reform on a global and local basis at every level, but not a purge.

          Far to often on this site I see the abuse of the word “They” or “Them”
          Lumping things together into amorphous bogeymen. This is a bad sign, a sign of the over-stressed inability to any longer differentiate.
          We must refrain from these momentary lapses of reason, and small insanities.

          You were saying something about reforms in scientific review and funding? Sorry I was distracted for a moment.

          • georgehants

            Ophelia, thank you for your time, I agree with you that many things need to change if we are to improve the World for our children.
            I know that until the problems are openly recognised and not denied by most scientists then very little will change.
            I do not in any way feel competent to give the best answers to solve the problems, which surely are best handled by scientists themselves.
            My only effort is to state the obvious, there are major problems.
            Let these problems be admitted and solved so that the Wonderful and important profession, that is the guardian of competent open-minded investigation, allows every natural phenomenon to be investigated freely and unhindered by childish and ignorant abuse and debunking
            To test your understanding of my points may I ask for your scientific analysis of the attitude of most scientists to the investigation of the clear and solid Evidence for UFO’s.

            • Ophelia Rump

              We will never get a straight answer on that subject.
              To the best of my knowledge the whole UFO thing was cooked up as a cover story for military projects.

              If there are others nearby, they should definitely fear us, and we should probably fear them. I have not seen any clear and solid evidence of UFO’s.
              There are no chunks of UFO down at the local museum.

              No scientist who has enough respect in his field to be funded should go near the subject. Why would you spend your career chasing fuzzy images in a hall of mirrors built by disinformation specialists?

              • georgehants

                Ophelia, from your answer it is clear you have not investigated the Evidence that I asked you to give a scientific analysis of.
                You instead have just tried to debunk the subject.
                You sound if I may say like the average scientist discussing Cold Fusion.
                May I instead ask you to give your scientific opinion on how science should respond to this report?
                If you care to actually read it, that will take sometime, I am closing for tonight so look forward to your answer when you have had time to fully digest the report.
                Best
                http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/cometa.htm

                • Ophelia Rump

                  I once had a friend who’s job it was to watch over such scientists. If they received a phone call from or met the wrong person, they would be reported. The next morning they were no longer there to be observed.
                  Even their observers feared observation, and disappearance for knowing too much.

                  If one nation sends their advanced aircraft over another nation how are we to differentiate this alien technology from otherworldly technology?

                  I am not saying that there are or are not occasional visitors.
                  I am saying that as a field of science this is a salted field, nothing will grow there.

                  The entire COMETA report can be explained away as testing of a holographic projection system by the American military. Most of these reports are no more significant then the reports of Foo Fighters by the American Air Force in WWII. They probably got the technology from the Nazis.

                • georgehants

                  You dismiss a report from important scientists with your “opinion”
                  You then add much more unfounded “opinion to debunk Evidence such as “Foo fighters” that have never been explained.
                  Very unlikely that the Germans had the technology and no Evidence ever found that they did.
                  Your whole reply’s are unscientific, unreasonable and full of official Dogma and “opinion” with no regard for Evidence whatsoever.
                  Thank you again.
                  Best

                • Ophelia Rump

                  I do not bow to any authority by reflex.
                  COMETA presented a report of other reports by people who saw lights and images.

                  Reports are reports, not evidence, certainly not proof.

                  I not only believe, I know that we are being systematically denied some greater truth. I know that those professionals who are doing this are good at their job and offer conflicting perspectives to polarize the observer into false, either or choices.

                  Do you want to know the truth of UFO’s, Time Travel, Break Away Civilizations, the truth is this: The truth is most likely to be none of the above, or some bizarre fusion of bits of all the above in some completely novel form.

                  Few scientists will be allowed near it, those who are will see their families murdered in their sleep at the slightest hint of talking outside their circumscribed limits.

                  You think I am a denier, I laugh at this, I know.
                  Logic dictates that where there is suppression there is something being suppressed in proportion, and the suppression is monumental.

                • georgehants

                  Thank you for your Honesty in pointing out the real possibility that those who come close to finding the Truth in certain subjects very often have strange accidents etc.
                  I though, have no interest here in proving that UFO’s are one thing or another, my subject is the ability of a scientist to keep an open-mind and investigate every conceivable annomally in Nature.
                  To follow Evidence and not dumb “opinion”
                  I can find a million closed-minded incompetent scientists on any science Website.
                  I do not believe or disbelieve anything, I still will not say that Mr. Rossi is totally genuine because there is that unbelievably small chance he is not.
                  BUT i will deny nothing, just follow the Evidence and I don’t mean the trash turned out by the establishment or Wiki-rubbish for instance.a scientist must DENY nothing beyond clear temporary Evidence or they are not a scientist, just a fraud calling themselves so.
                  Here it is important because that same closed-minded incompetent Dogma has lead to a delay in Cold Fusion that certainly will have lead to suffering and loss of life.
                  I hope you may agree?
                  Goodnight

                • Ophelia Rump

                  I not only agree, I thought that was very well put. Incompetence is incompetence, what are we ever to do about that problem?

                  Dogma, this is a much more curious issue. By nature of indoctrination into a very old and complex system of knowledge, the student must keep their mouths shut and accept what is presented, even if key bits and pieces are left out or mangled by time.

                  In any field there stands the herd grazing, and perhaps one or two who stray off to greener pastures. This is the nature of transcendence. We are at it’s mercy and ever will be.

              • georgehants

                As a non-scientist I will give you a scientific analysis or your reply.
                —–“We will never get a straight answer on that subject.”
                -The most unscientific view I have ever heard
                —–“To the best of my knowledge the whole UFO thing was cooked up as a cover story for military projects.”
                -So you take that to be a Fact because you have heard it.
                —–“. I have not seen any clear and solid evidence of UFO’s.
                -It is clear from your previous reply that you have never looked at the Evidence for UFO’s.
                —– “There are no chunks of UFO down at the local museum”
                -There are no E-Cats at the local supermarket.
                —–“No scientist who has enough respect in his field to be funded should go
                near the subject. Why would you spend your career chasing fuzzy images
                in a hall of mirrors built by disinformation specialists?”
                -Why would any self-respecting scientist investigate Cold Fusion etc.
                ——“On the other hand if there are visitors of one sort or another, there
                may be a select few scientists who have had the chance to study them and
                their artifacts.”
                -Just to cover your backside in case like Cold Fusion it turns out to be a Fact
                ——–
                As a scientific analysis you have given nothing but negative “opinion” without any suggestion that one must look clearly at all the Evidence available.
                That is called debunking by a closed-mind.
                A very unscientific exchange on the subject, but thanks, you have clearly demonstrated why science is in the terrible unscientific mess that it is in.

            • Billy Jackson

              As for the UFO its not a clear and solid evidence. even though i am a believer in UFO’s i also believe that a lot of what we see is us.. in advanced craft beyond any standard aircraft capability. as stated earlier i believe that the military or secret projects programs are literally 20-50 years ahead of civilian technology.

              There is strong evidence. Mathematics alone say its probable. To many witnesses have different variations of the same story for their to be nothing.. there are a lot of cases that are just flat out unexplainable and lend themselves as strong proponents for the case of UFO… but that’s not the same as clear and solid.

              I am a believer in UFO’s as a possibility. i have seen strong evidence but have yet to see a clear cut case of YES that’s a UFO made by an alien and not us.

              High level witnesses from all back grounds in both the aeronautics and space administration have come forward to say something is going on.. so i absolutely will not dismiss it as improbable.. yet they themselves have yet to provide solid and clear proof outside of their own testimony. (sorry i have to play devils advocate to my own beliefs in this case simply because i think that we as humans/military/black budget projects are responsible for a lot of the UFO phenomenon

              • georgehants

                We are taking science —
                It does not matter who believes or disbelieves, it does not matter what anybody’s opinion is.
                It only matters is there the smallest Evidence, if so then It is sciences job to investigate, open-mindedly, honestly and professionally, anything less is incompetence.

    • georgehants

      Wayne, Dr. Rossi is a private individuate that has had to fight main-line science every inch of the way, helped by some equally brave scientists willing to brave the debunking and abuse by incompetent and corrupt scientists.
      95% of which still today follow their holy priests in debunking Cold Fusion and many other important scientific subjects.
      Why is it that people trying to defend science can not apparently avoid distorting the Facts?
      There are many “scientists” who have always maintained that Mr. Rossi is not even a scientist.

      • Billy Jackson

        because its not a case of all believers being fanatical supporters or all scientist being pathological skeptics. the truth is somewhere in between. while both sides of this debate have those that fit the descriptions above. the truth is when MIT defamed cold fusion (wrongly) the weight of the reputation of such an exalted institute of higher education was used with malicious intent that has repressed further studies or serious considerations to do with cold fusion.

        People believed them because of who they are..for some that was good enough. now the evidence to refute the original stance and the lie thats been maintained for years is building, but the dogma that surrounds cold fusion and now LENR is deeply embedded in the scientific and public psyche, Reversing this will remain an uphill battle until such time as the evidence is absolutely overwhelmingly irrefutable.

        • georgehants

          Billy, fully agree, I find many people on page can point out some of the problems that are wide and many, but very few give a view on what is the best course to reverse this terrible state of affairs.
          The problem is a Fact, it now needs some answers.

          • Billy Jackson

            the only way to fight it is as we have been, well spoken, logical discourse, followed by continued testing then publishing of those tests. at some point a working device or marketing forces will force a confrontation .

            • georgehants

              It may force a confrontation on Cold Fusion, that may well be hidden by the media and powers that be, but this problem is much wider than CF it is a chronic condition effecting much of science.
              Shown by the extraordinary lengths that scientists go to on page to defend a position that is undefendable.
              They are like Hitler who would never allow his generals to fall back, regroup and start afresh with new honest, good ideas.
              The end result was that millions died unnecessarily.

    • AB

      Only a few posters do this, thankfully. It’s true that Pons & Fleischmann were mistreated, and cold fusion rejected far too hastily, but that is no reason to attack everyone. Essen, Levi, Kullander, etc. are also scientists. It’s unfortunate that people like them meet such hostility here, it would certainly be interesting if they participated in discussions.

      • georgehants

        GreenWin, main-line science has had 25 years to correct the mistakes that it made regarding P&F.
        Today I think 95% of main-line scientists still debunk Cold Fusion etc.
        Please explain why it is not reasonable to blame all of main-line science when their spokespersons, comics etc. have done nothing to correct the errors.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Sheldrake is studying ESP in dogs. While his work my be honest and good science, while it may even be successfully demonstrating ESP in dogs.
          It is still studying ESP in dogs. The subject itself is marginalizing.

          Perhaps great things will come of it one day and he will gain historical significance. Until then, he is studying ESP in dogs. Not my brand of hero.

          • georgehants

            He is studying science, why would it matter to science what your “brand of hero” is.
            Do you not celebrate the Fact that a scientist is investigating such an important subject in Humans as well as dogs.

            • Ophelia Rump

              I am interested in ESP and it’s relation to quantum physics.
              I hope his research goes some where, I defend his right and duty to research it. But discovering LENR it is not.

              He chose to go off into sideshow subject which might have better been left to lesser scientists, or perhaps he is a lesser scientist. That is a question his choices have left. I do not judge him, but I do not look for great things from him either.

              • georgehants

                Ophelia you do not consider ESP important, you say it is a sideshow for “lesser scientists”
                I am afraid I cannot in any way understand your thinking.

                • Ophelia Rump

                  I not only believe in ESP, it runs in my family.
                  It is not something which impresses me.
                  It is erratic, primitive, and ethereal.

                  Real insight into the nature of consciousness and existence would be awesome, but right now it is best exemplified by a dog sitting at the window wagging his tail. When a scientist finds a way to tune into the cosmic consciousness and ask questions, I will be impressed.

                • georgehants

                  Ophelia, thank you for being brave and taking the scientific logic test last night.
                  I am afraid you have not scored very highly but enjoyable chat.
                  You may at sometime go back over our string and note the inconsistencies and completely unscientific comment of your reply’s.

                • georgehants

                  Ophelia, O dear, you drive me to despair.
                  How will as you say “a scientist find a way to tune in”, if the honest, competent Research is not done?
                  Are you aware of the child like logic of my questions.
                  That you find difficult to answer logically.
                  ——–
                  Mr. Rossi’s Cold Fusion was “erratic, primitive, and ethereal,” until he spent 15 years Researching the subject to find perhaps one of the most important things in human history.

    • US_Citizen71

      I think it comes down to: “A man is known by the company he keeps.” – English Proverb

      Your second to last sentence is deeply based on this, you in essence, condemn a billion plus muslims for the actions of several thousand. Why should scientists be judged differently? Mainstream science needs to clean house.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Please listen to Dr. Eugene Mallove.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avpoIAKvYmU

    • Warthog

      It is not “all scientists” that get “bashed”, but those who have waged an anti-CF propaganda war. Most of those are physicists, absolutely secure in the notion that they know all there is to be known about nuclear reactions. There have been a very few chemists in their camp, but, for the most part, chemists have been either supportive or neutral.

      The physicists are so absolutely sure that their position is correct that they have totally refused to examine the experimental evidence from MANY later researchers (of high skills and good reputations). In addition to not examining the experimental evidence, they have also instigated witch-hunts, and academic pogroms against those scientists of any sort who have dared to actually do experimental research in the area of CF.

      The “bashing” is not “all about Rossi” by any means.

      Alan DAngelis is right about studying Mallove’s work. I also highly recommend reading George Beaudette’s excellent book “Excess Heat”, in which he undertakes a THOROUGH examination of the experimental evidence for CF, and comes down firmly to the conclusion that CF is both real and wrongly maligned.

  • Fortyniner

    Just on some matters of fact, the device tested by NASA wasn’t Shawkey’s EmDrive but a far less efficient design loosely based on it (Q-Drive, Cannae Drive) constructed by engineer Guido Fetta.

    Shawkey’s EmDrive produced far greater thrust during testing (up to 250mN/25g), as did the Chinese replication constructed by Yang et al. (720mN/72g).These reactionless systems were recently discussed on this blog – see http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/08/08/anomalous-propulsion-drive-verified-at-nasa/, in particular AlainCo’s posts.

    • georgehants

      Morning Peter, I do like Facts, thank you.
      How was your trip on the canal’s, good I hope :)

      • Fortyniner

        Morning George. The best-laid plans of mice and men… A supplier cocked up so I’ve had to postpone until next week. Getting up to the boat in bank holiday traffic will be a barrel of laughs..

  • Ophelia Rump

    I feel certain that in a very short time there will be many simple methods to implement this technology. Surely a number of those will be simple and effective enough for there to be a global do it yourself movement.

    I would not be surprised to see household systems in many homes well in advance of any home certification or approval. I think such a movement will force the approval of home unit certification in order to limit the negative effects of unregulated homemade devices.

    There is no need to seek someone else’s property. In short order a dozen approaches to building a working LENR device will be freely available. The world will be here waiting for them, we are not going anywhere.

    It is my firm belief that Rossi’s secret looses it’s value as a secret the moment Industrial Heat ships product. By necessity the secret has already been compromised, the only protection which they can provide for it is to make it public in a patent, which no doubt has already been applied for. Andrea Rossi deserves to be treated with dignity, it is wrong to consider treating his work in any other way. The world deserves to enjoy the benefits of his work, but so does he. Any lesser treatment of someone who does great deeds would be worthy of despise.

    Industrial Heat must not settle for having found a working implementation of LENR. They must rededicate themselves to finding the best possible implementations and making them their own. The time when they can protect their property through secrecy is over. It is not enough to have the first device, they must also have the best device.

    • http://lenr-cities.com LENR-Cities Team

      Yes :-)

  • Deepak Saharan

    I believe both of the views of validating technology with theory or buying the unproved tech has been right at their places. Money is the driving factor , however human interventions do occur.
    In case of ecat I believe:
    Since It has been long time ecat being publicized . Many third party tests and public demos have been arranged, films , books on this topic has been released. So people do have the knowledge of this technology from long time. People do resist sudden outbreaks of new technology .That is not the case here.

    • GreenWin

      Deepak, while there has been a minimum of mainstream media coverage, it is rife with false or outdated information – a rather transparent F U D (fear, uncertainty, doubt) campaign. Oddly, there is a compartmental rational for this. One day, when the politics have quieted, we will learn how disruptive energy was “shielded” from clandestine enemies. It’ll make a great novel!

  • Owen Geiger

    We’re not sure what’s going on yet, but maybe IH is ready to roll out E-Cats on a production scale and they want to make a massive splash. I would of thought they’d do things more incrementally. See what happens.

  • Billy Jackson

    well said. but don’t forget that scenarios have existed where the media had no choice but to publish the truth. a coverup or lie can only last as long as people are convinced you are telling the truth. with the e-cat, to many people know about it. so its going to be harder to cover up.. dismissive? sure, disinformation, absolutely, bury… possibly via military … but eliminate completely? no.. its in the public now.. and just via the information rossi has given it will only take research labs time before they too stumble on the secret sauce…

  • Ophelia Rump

    Hank, First let me say that I think you made an excellent article here. I want to congratulate you on that. I admit I had fears that this would turn into a bar brawl when I first read it. Then Billy Jackson responded and it was just magic after that.

    I do not share your anxiety about the technology being buried or slowed down. Because there are alternative implementations, once the theory is known there will be an absolute panicked rush in the research to find a better implementation.

    Either way there will be much attention, even if it is not public.
    The public is always the last to know. You will not know the true impact of climate change until the rich have sold off their at risk investments and purchased all the high ground.

  • GreenWin

    Hank, I refer you to the current gnashing of teeth over NASA’s “Space Drive” validation. This is the template for reaction to physics physicists have been taught to reject. These orthodox mindsets must be left behind. You can be sure with major players, Mitsubishi, Doosan, Toyota, GE Aviation, Navy, NASA, Vattenfall etc. already in the game, “replications” will arrive as competitive products.

    In the early days of television, neighbors would visit the early adopter house to “see TV for themselves.” No one needed a validation from Stanford or Los Alamos or a bunch of white-coated pocket protector geeks to decide to buy their own TV. The profit motive is the strongest incentive in E-Cat’s future.

  • Ophelia Rump

    No one needs proof the tech works. We need working tech.
    Weld it into a square steel box and call it Black Box Magic, and we will buy Black Box Magic, because it is to our benefit. Believers will prosper, it is enough.

  • Ronzonni

    No need to choose. How about both, a functioning thermal power plant which can be inspected by any credentialed reporter or renown scientist, and a report from unimpeachable authorities in physics and engineering? Why not a major test lab like Underwriters or CSA? They could vouch for the ecat and hot cat performance as well as safety. I don’t think there would be any doubters remaining who matter if those goals were met.

    • Owen Geiger

      Rossi recently said the E-Cat received certification. Maybe IH will publicly verify this when the report and plant demo are ready.

  • Billy Jackson

    unless its been specifically discussed between Rossi and the testing party i think that doing so would be a massive case of Intellectual Dishonesty. You have to remember that in order to trust the word of the testers we also have to trust they are morally honest people to the best of their ability (to a extent.. hey.. we all tell little white lies)

    You seem to be wanting the testers to do an end run around Rossi and just give his secret away without express permission to do so. This in my opinion is a mistake, who would trust you to test anything after that?

    while understandable i think your fears are misguided at best. multiple people and multiple companies now have the secret to Rossi’s E-cat (IH, Multiple testing facilities in different countries)

    Our next battle if we receive a positive test result from the report will be politically inspired regulations and public fear of the word “nuclear”

  • Billy Jackson

    I think i somewhat understand the underlying fear Mr Hills is worried about. There is every chance this technology could be buried or regulated to the point of uselessness.

    We have all heard of the 100 mile per gallon carburetor. the Water powered car, and the secret to anti gravity, rumor has it that the US military is 20-50 years ahead of civilian technology (again rumored) .. heck Ben Rich the former head of Lockheed Skunk Works on his deathbed said we had the technology to take E.T. Home.

    We as humanity need this technology. we need it badly for many reasons. the last any of us want to hear is another “car accident” or “heart attack” that took the life of the inventor who was working (claimed) on such a wonder device that becomes “lost” on his death.

    while i understand and sympathize, i am also forced to face the reality of the situation. That is no company is just going to give away freely a billion(s) dollar technology for nothing.. I would love to see Rossi give to the world the secret of the e-cat.. i just don’t think its realistic at this time.

  • mcloki

    Bit misguided. Let people make money off the e-0cat. Kids need to be sent to school, mortgages paid, groceries bought. Run this as a business with proper marketing. The benefits sell themselves and the profit will go to making better versions.
    All you’re really asking for is them to give away the secret formula for Coke or KFC. That doesn’t need to be done.

    • Hank Mills

      Again, I’m not asking for them to do anything that they have not already been given permission to do. If they have been told they can test in any way they want and report any of their discoveries, then Rossi already has given away the secrets. If, of course, the testers are willing to do enough testing to figure out how to replicate. Also, the E-Cat does not compare to Coke or KFC. The E-Cat is a technology that is of critical importance in addressing the issues facing our planet. Coke or KFC cannot be used to provide dirt cheap power for the world. Additionally, there are already many varieties of soft drinks and fried chicken on planet. As of now, there is only one proven LENR or cold fusion tech: the E-Cat.

      • sci-spy

        Kudos to both mcloki and Hank Mills for this important exchange. You guys have really hit on some fundamental issues.

      • Fortyniner

        It’s interesting to note that the ‘secret recipes’ for coke and KFC have never been patented – they are trade secrets that have successfully remained secret for some considerable time, despite the lack of any patent ‘protection’.

        • GreenWin

          In fact a trade or industrial secret benefits from greater international protection than either copyright or patent law. This is why trade secrets remain secret; in the case of Coca Cola for nearly a century.

  • GreenWin

    “For the good of the planet, we need this technology to be accepted as real by the mainstream scientific community…”

    No Hank. Actually, we don’t need any of the mainstream scientific community to accept a commercial product that produces abundant energy. And don’t for a moment think a second positive validation will bring the children around. As others here note, an operating pilot plant will convince financiers there is money to be made in E-Cats. Profit motive will do the rest. The “mainstream scientific community” will hem and haw until some version of LENR heats the hot water at One Physics Ellipse, College Park, MD. :)

  • Hank Mills

    I am not making a request of Rossi. He has already given the testers permission to give any information they discover to the world.

  • Hank Mills

    I would like to remind everyone that Andrea Rossi has already made the statement that the testers are free to do whatever tests they want and publish whatever they want. In essence, he has already given them the permission to give every secret to the world. I am not asking anything of Rossi.

    • GreenWin

      The Industrial Heat investors would probably have reason to complain if IH gave away their trade secret. IH owns the secret – not Dottore.

  • parallelB

    Hank,
    You have forgotten Andrea Rossi’s own words. He pointed out that the E-Cat would be developed fastest by a competent company with some profit motive. If you give the E-Cat away why would anyone want to invest in R & D and production facilities?

    Adrian Ashfield

    • Hank Mills

      Even if the testers gave every secret away, IH could still make money. Just because other teams would be building E-Cats would not mean IH would not be ahead of them for a period of time. Wirh a huge market for energy, everyone could make money. Also, the ability to build an E-cat is not the money maker. The knowledge to build control systems is.

  • georgehants

    Rudy, would it be fair to ask for the names of the scientists who are advising these bureaucrats.

  • Billy Jackson

    the problem is palace. hanks advice is a two edge sword that cuts both ways. its laudable for him from a scientific point of view to want full access for replication. If Ross was inclined to go that route he could have done so way earlier than this test.

    If he gives out the information Hank Mills wants.. then their is no further need for Rossi.. its been stated that this device is simple enough that a person who tinkers with mechanics in his home garage could build one easily… if that is so.. then giving out the secret sauce removes any need for the inventor who i believe deserves to at least be rewarded financially in the short term for his contributions.

    If the e-cat works.. Rossi’s name will be up there with Edison and Tesla for engineering fame.. the e-cat isnt just a potential energy changer.. its a potential world changer.

    • GreenWin

      Billy, you might be interested in this: http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913
      These are competent scientists and their report is the criterion on which Industrial Heat group purchased Rossi’s IP.

      • Billy Jackson

        I have read it GreenWin, Thank you. It is the basis of that report and now the followup that hopefully will answer all the challenges that the one you posted received, it is the cause of most of my excitement about the e-cat and its possibilities.

        But if my memory serves me right they did not have access to the fuel that powers the e-cat?? the current round of testing they do is my understanding.

  • malkom700

    We should not be worry too much about the skeptics, because when will be put into operation the first device, the skeptics we can forget. Anyway, we must realize that the first device will not have been optimal, then likely to be add at least a few years of intensive development with a gradual increase in production.

  • Leonard Weinstein

    The idea that lower vacuum cleaner power would save energy is flawed. The result would be the need to vacuum slower or go over an area several times. This is the same flaw in logic that was used for low water flush toilets. They had to be flushed several times to clear them, so they often used more water.

  • westreicher

    thank you Hank .. you speak from my soul

  • Billy Jackson

    Much respect hank for your well stated stance and reasoning behind it. fortunately your intentions are good from the main stream stance of science. that being said .. unfortunately their are others who just want the secret sauce so they can by pass Rossi and IH. he’s been goaded since day one to release this secret and he has not so far except to the IH team who bought the property.

    I suspect that the testers will honor his wishes and not give out the proprietary information until Rossi & IH are ready to do so.

    Science in this particular case is just going to have to wait. from the vitriol that was spewed at Rossi from the beginning i am not surprised that he’s going to let the scientific community stew in their own self made bed.

    You want it.. buy it off the shelf like the rest of us when it becomes available. That being said.. you are asking a business to give away billions in potential earnings.. i wouldn’t not hold out much hope for that.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Your opinions are consistently well grounded.

      • Billy Jackson

        One tries lady Ophelia, One tries. /bow

        While I tend to lean toward optimism, I try to remain grounded in realism and real world consequences. Unabashed enthusiasm is just as bad as chronic pessimism.

        I find that anonymity brings with it a dearth of quality conversations, the ability to hide ones identity allows for uncouth and boorish behavior with little to no repercussions or ownership of ones words.

        I use my own identity without fear of ridicule. I believe a person should stand beside their convictions, committed to the ideas they express, yet humble enough to face any provided evidence that may counter that stance.

        I humbly pray that I can continue to recognize when I am in error or make a decision through misguided information. Here I stand, I can do no more.

        • Private Citizen

          And while we’re all so proud and brave about making our opinions public, let’s get rid of that pesky secret ballot behind which so many cowards hide at the curtained voting both. There should be real world consequences for ones voting record.

          Maybe a law that mandates submitting all voting records and internet posts to our employer (who might just feel that LENR is crackpot science) is what it will take to finally end this boorish behavior with little repercussion.

          • Billy Jackson

            Almost any system in the right hands can be abused. I am in no way calling for the removal of privacy, or your ability to remain anonymous. I simply stated the abuse that tends to come from such systems.

            I post under my real name because I choose to do so in an effort to show how serious i support the e-cat and its potential effects on the world around us.

            We all state our opinions, these discussions are nothing more than just that. opinions based on the evidence we have at hand filtered through our education and ability to understand the data available so far.

            I completely believe that a person should be allowed to retain their anonymity, but with it comes the responsibility to be intellectually honest.

            • Fortyniner

              Fortunately, any excesses are moderated by this forum’s admin, whether or not a ‘real’ ID is used. The skeps see this as censorship creating a cozy little world in which only ‘believer’ posts are permitted, but a scan though some random pages will quickly confirm that a wide range of opinions are expressed, including a small number that IMHO look like the work of trolls/shills.

              That’s what makes this such a productive venue for intelligent discussion of developments, rather than a pointless tail-chasing dogfight in which ego-boosting sneers and ad hominem attacks seem to be the normal (in fact, only) form of communication. Long may it continue so.

              • Billy Jackson

                Amen!

              • sci-spy

                Agreed. The conversations here are markedly more erudite, informed, and logically reasoned than those found at many other similar sites, on some of which the “skeptics” were indulged well beyond the merits of their contributions to the discussion.

                • Billy Jackson

                  I welcome the skeptical but not the delusional. the same as i welcome those who profess support, but not fanatical adherence to all things rossi. make your arguments for or against by all means. stand by your statements.. just do not be closed minded if you are wrong.. (for support or denial)

          • http://batman-news.com Fibber McGourlick

            You’re joking, of course. The secret ballot is essential to preserve democracy.

            • Billy Jackson

              I think he was more making the opposing point that removal of anonymity can have repercussions just as awful as having anonymity. I do agree with him.

              My original stance did not say anything of removing peoples rights to privacy, more that people abuse that right by being intentionally dishonest or abusive knowing they are safe hiding behind that wall.

              in the past how many skeptics here and else where have used their anonymity to blast Rossi and the E-Cat with disinformation or truths that eliminated half of the story to emphasize the worst in order to persuade individuals that Rossi is a dishonest person? when it was they themselves being dishonest?

              • sci-spy

                Indeed.

            • Ophelia Rump

              Yes, I am pretty sure he was being facetious. Although he plays it so straight that I find it hard to be sure,.

          • Ophelia Rump

            It would have been better if you charged him with public lewdness for nakedly and unabashedly using his actual identity.
            Clearly he is an exhibitionist.

            • Billy Jackson

              /flash

        • clovis ray

          billy J
          I feel the same, i have always used my real name, i am proud of who i am, and it has never cost me anything,,,,so for and a great lot of people know me now, lol, which is nice, i’m not afraid you can’t hustle, an old hustler, lol and i learn a great deal, i love to study people that are out there on the cutting edge, and know quite a few these days. and hope to meet Dr. Rossi sometime,
          maybe he will through a big party and invite us all, that would be great, hint, hint,, smile.

    • Fortyniner

      I agree. IH are not going to permit core secrets to be freely given to competitors, and may well have reserved editorial rights over what is to be disclosed. However I share Hank Mills’ hope that the paper(s) will contain enough information to (1) convince any open minded reader that e-Cat is real and ‘does what it says on the tin’ and (2) provide an understanding of the source of ‘anomalous’ heat so that others can independently find ways of replicating the ‘Rossi effect’.

      • Ted-X

        The secret sauce has been poured out (as a speculation, converging on hints). The energy is nuclear-like but not really nuclear, rather based on quantum effects. It is supposedly in agreement with the “classical physics”. With these constrains, ONLY Casimir force/zero-point energy may be the source of the energy. Elsewhere in this forum I posted the method for making the sauce (cryogenic treatment, 48 hrs in liq. nitrogen, a method used to reduce the metallic grains) used in hardening alloys and steels, applied in tool-making (the method is not that well known). I think that NOW the cat is out of the bag. I just wonder why only a few people are approaching this conclusion (Gordon Daugherty is one of them).

        • Ted-X

          If the Rossi’s effect is the ZPE/Casimir force, with possible generation of hydrinos, then analysis of the residual product will not provide the hints on the catalyst. Hydrinos could potentially pass the Coulomb barrier producing the transition Ni –> Cu (as in the theory of “masked protons”).

          • Ophelia Rump

            The secret of the catalyst was never intended to survive the product release. It is not security against a better solution, of which many may be out there waiting to be discovered.

        • Ophelia Rump

          You might also ring it like a bell to induce crystallization like the bronze hoop in an antique banjo. Another arcane process.

      • Ronzonni

        Fortyniner, what do you think will happen when a megawatt plant is sold, for example, to China? Don’t you think it will be taken apart and reverse engineered, regardless of contracts and promises? Couldn’t this happen with any sale? Isn’t this why a patent is very important? And isn’t it true that Rossi can’t get a patent without disclosing how his invention works? What a conundrum for him!

        • Owen Geiger

          Bingo. That’s what I was going to say. If IH has to disclose all the working mechanisms for the patent(s) then they might as well share the info with researchers who are doing the TIP.

        • Fortyniner

          That would be a possibility if units are sold anywhere. However Rossi’s statement about specially trained engineers may be a clue here. It seems probable (at least in early years) that reactors will not be sold but leased, and then only to secure sites, together with a small team of IH operating personnel whose duties may well include ensuring ongoing security of the reactors. There will be enough interest in the potential savings to ensure that arrangements of this type will not choke off their supply of potential customers.

          IH will probably seek to patent various critical bits of technology to block competition, but I very much doubt that they will disclose their core secrets through patent applications, at least not until some serious competition arises independently.

      • Owen Geiger

        IH could build a “wall of shame” at the operating plant with names and photos of those who have delayed/denied cold fusion for 25 years. Journalists’ photos of the wall would go worldwide.

        • GreenWin

          While just comeuppance is often fun, the infractions here have been deleterious to human evolution. A full and honest airing of all the negative actions by mainstream science and vested interests (notably academia) is the first step in house cleaning.

          The errors and corruptions that have retarded LENR research must be exposed and the foundation of an entirely new criterion to protect “fringe” science and philosophies supported by evidence.

          • Billy Jackson

            always remember that their will be people who will always believe what they are told. including scientist. When cold fusion was defamed by MIT you have people who believe they don’t need to look at the data.. MIT said it was fake.. that’s good enough for them.. this mind set leads to those who now years later are in complete exasperation at the thought that people are “wasting” their time following this junk science which has already been debunked.. of course they don’t need to look at new evidence.. its already been said its trash.. and will remain that way even to the point where its on sale at the local hardware store… eventually they will come around through lack of choice.. but until then.. their heads are in the sand and they are quite content there.

    • Hank Mills

      Rossi has already given it away. I’m just hoping the testers will share it with the world. If Rossi didnt want them to reveal everything, he could have given them restrictions. He has specifically stated they have none.

      • Billy Jackson

        I cant dispute what your claiming as i have read the same articles. I am applying logic from past tests and statements by Rossi. It makes no sense that he’s been this secretive to all of a sudden give permission for them to publicize everything, including the secret sauce. If Rossi sold the IP then he no longer has the authority to give the scientist that permission. that would be IH..

        the waters are muddied right now on who owns what and who is in charge of what and what the full testing parameters are.. until we get the test results we can only hope that its as complete as humanly possible. I think armed with the questions and challenges they faced on the last test.. they should have no problem publishing a convincing report this time if the tests warrant it.

        Until then as i said earlier. great article, i understand the need and desire, i just dont hold much hope that its going to happen due to business obligations.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Soon they will be able to buy one.

  • Nixter

    I would be interested to know if the testers made only external measurements or if they received permission to open the case and analyze the E-Cats internals. It’s possible that they were given theoretical and operational information regarding it’s functioning, but I think that simply presenting the data obtained from the testing is problematic enough. The prevailing attitude is that no such process is possible and therefore any evidence presented that says otherwise is false and therefore suspect. Presenting information about the theory and operational details won’t guarantee credibility, because they believe that the Rossi Effect is a scam. Dr Rossi knows these people and what it will take to break through their (LENR, Cold Fusion, QUAR), denial blockade. It means NOT trying to convince the skeptics at all, instead, he decided some time ago to bypass them and go directly to the end users. The report can be used to gain credibility with entities likely to buy and use E-Cat technology to do actual work on an industrial scale. The primary duty of the skeptics at this point will be reduced to explaining their lack of foresight and scientific curiosity.

    • Ophelia Rump

      They had one fully assembled reactor and two sets of components from which they could have built two more. Scientists have been given access.

      • Fortyniner

        I understand that ‘spares’ were provided but I think these may well have been complete reactors, ready to operate and to be substituted for the duty unit in the event of any failure.

        The reactor in service was probably driven by a programmed control system, which may well have prevented operation outside of certain limits for safety reasons. In other words the test group may have been free to twiddle whatever knobs they liked, to measure whatever electrical feeds were controlled by the software, and to conduct calorimetry, but perhaps not much more than that.

        Their main purpose would probably have been to run the device at maximum efficiency – which they could quickly determine by adjusting parameters. Having done so they would have then spent the majority of the test just logging input and thermal output for an extended period. I suspect that before/after gas and fuel samples were probably taken by an IH technician and handed to the researchers for analysis.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Rossi stated that they were all delivered as parts and a team went on site to assemble the first one for the testers.

          • Fortyniner

            For ‘assemble’ read ‘pressurise and connect’? (to the control system).

            • Ophelia Rump

              For onsite, substitute walked into the lobby for a moment to get out of the rain. It is a wonder you can breath inside that protective shell.

              • Fortyniner

                I was never much good at riddles I’m afraid.

                • Ophelia Rump

                  I am suggesting that you are holding on tightly to an extremely narrow interpretation. I do not understand why you would, there appears to be no need to do so. Anyway we will know soon enough.

                  Do not be so tense! Try to enjoy these moments, soon we get some new material to investigate!

                • Fortyniner

                  As always I go with what I perceive as the best fit interpretation of the information available. I’ve had to back pedal on a few things, but by and large my earlier impressions still seem to match the facts. When I have new facts I’ll change my opinions accordingly.

                  Mushrooms – yes I did get that one, although I’m reasonably sure that my maunderings, like those of others commenting here, are probably largely ignored by Rossi or his employees – unless from time to time we happen to guess some ‘secret’ accurately, or uncover some information not intended to be uncovered.

                  Tense – you bet. A trillion dollar industry is not going to lie down and let IH walk all over them if a serious threat to their profits and power is detected. Every day that goes by without disclosure increases the chances of effective countermeasures being introduced, or deals being made (if they haven’t already).