Rossi: Shipping Container Design Still in Use for 1MW Plants

Many of the available images available of the E-Cat are of the large blue shipping container inside which Andrea Rossi built his first plant in Italy. Yesterday Rossi explained that the new 1MW plant that they will install at a customer’s site on will be built in the same way:

Andrea Rossi
July 30th, 2014 at 8:11 AM
Toussaint:
In due time we will publish the photographies of the plant in operation. Anyway: the new series of 1MW ECAT ha substantial differences from the original prototype, but, yes, we use a standard container as external case. More compact, though. We maintained this solution to make the plants easy to transport and faster to build up.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

If I remember correctly I think the idea of building inside a shipping container was first suggested by a reader of the Journal of Nuclear Physics in the very early days. It sounds like there have been quite a few changes inside the plant, but it may be that from the outside they look very similar.

If Industrial Heat is going into mass production and distribution, then they will certainly need to be easy to ship, and there is plenty of infrastructure in place throughout the world that allows for easy transportation of containers by rail, sea and road.

Below is a picture of the early 1MW plant in transit.

 

Ecattransit
Source: Journal of Nuclear Physics

 http://s20.postimg.org/76il2bmkc/004.jpg

  • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

    I have multiple reason to be prudent.
    The first is that it is since 1992 that we have all required evidence to admit LENR is real, maybe 1996 fir the most retarded.
    So I know that no evidence can convince, except evidence that mom an pop, and their daughter of 5 can understand.
    It is corrected by the fact that I know big corp executive that like Elforsk just accept LENr as a possibility, or even as a fact whose date is still unknown.

    The second is that I know that technology takes time to make industrial, especially without a theory.
    Especially if all scientists but few refuse even to look at it , as it is currently the case.

    the third is that even for the business who know that LENr is a fact, and will disrupt the market, it is very hard to take the decision to cut one ofe their harm to flee from a dead comfortable market and flee to the future, alone without partners… at best they would try to capture a monopoly and keep the market as it is today, preventing most of the benefits for the population…
    as if sail boat companies were just adding steam engine on their best clipper just for maneuvering in the port.

    or course I am not skeptic, LENR is real (except for a blackswan probability that is common to any thing you are sure, like sun), and I know that E-cat have a COP>>2 with a tiny risk.

    even for LENr engineering, LENR theory I am optimistic that we will make breakthrough soon, in the next 5 years, provided all is not blocked by fear (not even by skeptics who are just tinfoil hat today).

    the real problem is fear by corps, hubris by startup, leading to desperate tentative to build monopolies that will delay the revolution… fear of improductive battles, of patent wars, research covering, like what happened at the beginning of Cold fusion fiasco (I am reading “fire from ice” by Mallove, good history. Beaudette show it too more kindly).

    I have understood that the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the scientists, the investors, the garage inventors, the tycoons, should work together in an open way, taking advantage of their openness advantage to go faster, to occupy the wild wild west more quickly than the elephants and the chacals.

    Think of the Ice age cartoon…
    I have the mammoth, many of the rodents, and for the tiger I have no name… that is an ecosystem if they have incentive to work together, share, and stay in.

  • Broncobet

    Yeah. I want your best guesses too bachcole.

  • Broncobet

    Right.It has to be in the middle. The Goldilocks zone. If it’s something everyone knows (water flows downhill) you won’t be funded, if it’s something preposterous, you still get nada, something like LENR should and does get funding(yes we all want more research$) because it’s not impossible and it’s not functioning as a major supplier of energy(yet, hopefully).

  • Ophelia Rump

    I did not mean the active form but the cold form of war. Were certain nations to adopt the technology while excluding others, the public would find the technology out of their reach. Such a thing would polarize.

    LENR as weapon, not for 20 years, war over LENR, hopefully not.

  • SiriusMan

    Just in: The Google barge in Maine is on the move:

    https://bangordailynews.com/2014/07/31/business/mysteries-continue-to-surround-google-barge-as-it-prepares-to-leave-maine/

    ..it is made from shipping containers and its intended purpose has been kept top secret for over 6 months.

    • GreenWin

      I have it on imagined authority the barge is filled with Maine lobstahs. These lobstahs are being towed down through the Cape Cod Canal to Boston harbor. Next week at Building 5 of the Charleston Navy Yard, a celebratory clam bake will take place aboard the USS Constitution – America’s oldest commissioned naval ship (1795.)

      The celebration is to commemorate the re-emergence of the Constitution in governance of the American people. Author Stephen King will Emcee. Entertainment provided by Quincy Adams Trio, Jay Zee’s Patriots, and Lady GaGoogle. Google Glasses will be gifted to all celebrants in recognition of this new vision. Massachusetts EPA confirms that no lobstahs will be harmed during the festivities.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I wonder if they have found a way to increase the size of the reaction site by making the industrial Tiger unit a double walled tube shape, with coolant flowing through the tube and outside it.

    The dimensions seem to hint at this.
    “A cylinder with a diameter of 1.2 m and a lencth od 0.4 m.”

    I did not expect them to play with geometries for the reaction site on the first release. These dimensions suggest a reaction site at least three feet long, and considerably larger in diameter than would make sense from a solid core.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I would venture a guess that each hot-cat would be housed in a piece of plumbing which would allow a single unit to be isolated and replaced, while the remaining units stay fully operational. The 7 x 24 365 operational standard would dictate this, and justify the use of adequate space and the additional plumbing required to provide that space.

    High Temperature High pressure steam requires significantly heavier plumbing than bath water. There may be competing factors shrinking the required size and increasing it at the same moment, at play here.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You have a point, it could become a War Technology or some such political nonsense. I assure you the adoption of that posture would become global. Where once there was a nuclear arms race, there would be a LENR deployment race. Distribution might become a matter of national security.
    This would be a global crime against humanity in the disguise of self interest.

    I hope the China deal has already precluded the successful deployment of that tactic.

  • Mats

    No, but I have 2 copys of his book, both signed by him.

  • Barry8

    Heh heh

  • Broncobet

    Experiment trumps theory but what is the theory behind the ecat, assuming it works?

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      you raise current problem in western mindset, western academic.

      things are only accepted if they have a theory.
      worst than that, when theory and facts dissent, the facts have to be ignored.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Theories are not facts they are models to provide insight, easily made obsolete, and have zero requirement for describing any form of truth.
        A theory only needs to work.
        A device only needs to work.

        The are of equal validity, which would you choose if you could only have one?

  • Broncobet

    I don’t wish to be labeled gullible, but I thought the picture looks great and ready for business, you don’t need graphics, just heat and reliability. Every one wants the hotcats, just deliver the e cat first.If Rossi is on the level this would change the world,it’s getting harder to maintain my healthy skepticism. If it doesn’t work I will be so disappointed.

    • Ophelia Rump

      It is growing difficult to tell if you are impatient or simply insatiable in your doubt.
      It is fairly clear that nothing short of the product on the market will satisfy you.
      I am have the same target point for satisfaction. I am not sure I would refer to your state of being as healthy skepticism. What makes you think it is healthy?
      You seem stressed to me. For you health, I think you should just relax and enjoy the wait.

      A friend.

      • GreenWin

        Bronco is a hardened skeptic working to inject doubt (like Thomas) into the minds of those who know there are 1500 papers, replications, black project confirmations, private corp products & systems proving LENR is beyond a shadow of Broncism. :) But let him wander in his depression of doubt – it makes a fine benchmark!

      • Broncobet

        Very funny ,what I hear from you is just nasty ,which is what you get at a stage of life.

    • http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ AlainCo

      don’t care about the photo.
      I care about the written documents, the thousands of articles, while 3 would be enough to be convinced, the million invested by businessmen, the test that are done, the numerous soft evidence that connect…
      It won’t be easy because it is reality, it is engineering, it is marlet disruption, it is industry, it is commercial wars…

      E-cat will take time, even if the test is positive and the powerplant is working well, but denying the reality of LENR is the summum of groupthink.
      If people confident in E-cat are clearly optimistic and can be wrong, I don’t see many honest skeptic who simply admit facts and raise concern about feasibility… I mostly see denial beside our optimism.

      how would you react if I bring you a company valued above 30bnEur asset value who enter the race to develop LENR technology ? I’m sure you will rationalize, deny, minimize… that is typical of Groupthink.

      afterall there are already
      Shell, Toyota, Mitsubishi, STMicro, Elforsk, SRI, Cherokee, Sunrise securities, Continuum Energy group, NASA GRC and NASA NARI, Navy Spawar, Navy NRL, ENEA,Norront AS…

      and to face that there is 4 refuted article abandoned by their author and which don’t apply to most of the modern LENr lab method.
      all claims are pure myth… frauds are proven… incompetence is proven… logical fallacies are documented and studied since the greek…

      this groupthink is desperate. only ignorance allow not to see it.

  • Bernie777

    Rossi’s latest remarks on JONP are very positive, the next six months should be very exciting for us!

    • morse

      I don’t think the ecat will break through in the US. They have too much to lose and they want all the power concerning energy. They are already the biggest oil producer from shale gas. Rossi is a threat to them when his machine goes worldwide.

      • Heath

        What a cynical view. The US oil companies produce this oil not the US itself. Big Oil is a powerful lobbyist, true, but businesses will jump at the chance to find a way to reduce the cost of energy (since the price is fixed by global markets) for themselves and enterprising small businesses will find ways to get this technology into the hands of homeowners. As for the US government, they will rush to use this to reduce energy costs–the yearly expense for the DoD alone regarding fuel is extremely high.

  • Fortyniner

    AR: “More compact, though.”
    His original unit was installed in a non-standard 15′ ISO container. The next size down is half that size at 10′ (colour code, light blue), so the new units really are pretty compact it seems.

    http://www.containerhandbuch.de/chb_e/stra/index.html?/chb_e/stra/stra_03_02_00.html

    • bachcole

      Rossi may have designed the individual units to be more compact knowing that they were going to be put into a smaller container.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I have every confidence that the new units are more compact more efficient and larger than ever.

        I think they learned the difference between industrial and home plumbing in the first shipping container model.

      • Fortyniner

        Or maybe many fewer (2-stage) modules required as each has much higher output than the original type?

    • Omega Z

      Or maybe they all fit inside the same size container.
      None on top.

      • Fortyniner

        There definitely won’t be any units on top – that was just a kludge to get output up for testing. If the output per module has been upped to say 25kW each then 40 modules +5 to allow for failures, might be fitted into a 10′ container on three racks of 7-8 per side, or four racks of 5-6.

        • Omega Z

          This Unit was built with the intent of modules on top-
          http://postimg.org/image/h2jo1ysc9/full/

          However, this was pre Mouse/Cat. I would fully expect everything to fit in the container with room to spare for maintenance without removal. And as Rossi has said, this would simplify instillation. Especially handy at this early stage.

  • Private Citizen

    Didn’t Rossi long ago design a mini 1-MW e-Cat? Why the train car size?

    Dear Dr Joseph Fine:

    You are perfectly right: in fact we are designing the new
    1 MW plants, for hot temperature, and the dimensions will be those of a
    cylinder with a diameter of 1.2 m and a lencth od 0.4 m.

    Is shocking, I myself are surprised, but it is so.

    Warmest Regards,

    A.R.

    • mcloki

      So these should be called Hot Rods.

      • Bernie777

        Ha, ha, very good!

      • bachcole

        That might be a reference that Rossi might not recognize. Hopefully an American speaker will help him out.

    • GreenWin

      These dimensions appear reversed if it is a “cylinder.”

      • Fortyniner

        Could be a ‘short, fat’ design envisaged as a housing for fairly large number of hot cat cores fitted between two perforated plates (assuming each unit similar in dimensions to the hollow ‘demo’ unit, i.e., about 400mm in length x 100mm diam.). If that is the case it might indicate some constraint on the maximum length of hot cat units, or an indication that c.400mm is an optimum size..

        At a guess, such a boiler could house between 50-100 cores, which would imply an output of 10-20kW for each reactor. In addition a feed chamber would be required at the bottom, plus a steam collection chamber at the top.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Not if you wish to keep it online, and at 100% efficiency.

          • Fortyniner

            er, not what?

    • Gerard McEk

      The design for a multi Hot-cat housing should indeed be totally different from the original boiling water design. I would think you bring the Hot-cats not insulated as near as possible together to heat a gas/steam flow inside a an insulated box/pipe with the purpose to heat the gaseous flow. If he is using the same original design container, then I would think he is using low temp. e-cats.

    • Mats

      For me it is a good sign that AR/IH refines and delivers the first design. This increase the chance to get a commersially working device as soon as possible. After that I will look forward to hotcats in jet turbines.

    • wonderboy

      Thanks for posting that, I was thinking the exact same.

      The only problem with a shipping container is that it doesn’t look professional. If he wants the wow factor when it hits the market, it should be sleek and beautiful. Companies with excess cash are the first who will buy this unproven technology, but who wants to show off an ugly ass shipping container?

      • Ophelia Rump

        I have seen in recent years a trend for entire plants to be built of shipping container sized units, control rooms in these look exactly like a shipping container.
        It makes sense.

        • Omega Z

          OR
          The U.S. has millions of shipping containers sitting unused.
          They cost to much to ship back to China, Etc while empty.
          Some innovative people are re-purposing them for other uses as they are cheap. Bomb shelters, Storm cellars, Micro apartments to name a few.

      • Owen Geiger

        Form follows function.

    • Omega Z

      That is what they were working with on the Hot-Cat for boiler attachment.
      The one in operation at a customers facilities is low temp.
      They are different with a different configuration.

  • bachcole

    Frank, the picture on my system is perfectly white without variation. (:->) In other words, I don’t seem to be getting the picture correctly. The word “Ecattransit” comes up, but that is it.

  • Paul

    It is a practical choise, but aesthetically not a smart move. The horrible effect in seeing a stupid “box” could be (partially) mitigated panting the container with a logo and with appropriate colours/textures/graphics.

    • Billy Jackson

      I would point out that these are not production models but hand built. so they wont have the smooth looks of a manufactured item. you could always make an external clam shell casing for the container thats cosmetic only.

    • mcloki

      You can vinyl the outside of one of those in a day. If they are going to factories they don;t need anything fancy. But the ability to factory build these and ship them anywhere is brilliant. It will really help the rollout. Just the fact that they do no have to clean out space on a factory floor, pour concrete, make walls is a huge advantage

  • Owen Geiger

    Frank, the photo doesn’t appear on my computer.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks for letting me know. I’ll try and figure out why it’s not showing; seems okay in my browsers. I added a link for the original pic.

    • Private Citizen

      Server with the image might be blocking outside hotlinking?

      If i paste the link to the image directly in the browser it works for me:

      http://s20.postimg.org/76il2bmkc/004.jpg